Pizza And Bagels: Can Non-gluten Types Compete?

[celiachap]

Although it may seem like "bragging", which is something that you can't back up with facts, the pizza and bagels in Brooklyn are the considered to be the the best by many people. I grew up in a neighborhood where the bagel shops had signs up that read "High Gluten Water Bagels", which were a penny each at one time, but I remember them being sold individually for .07 cents each. They still make them the old fashioned way in some places, but now they cost 10 times as much as they did in the 1960's.

I also realized at a very young age that I usually had digestive troubles galore after eating these bagels. I only ate them if I had time to be home sick, such as the beginning of a weekend. I learned not to indulge in high-gluten bagels on Sunday night because I would have trouble during my commute, and at work, on Monday and the following day(s). If I ate a wheat “bagel” that was like the ones today that most people are accustomed to, I wouldn’t get nearly as sick. I knew that I had issues with gluten, but no idea how chronic the damage from it was. Additionally, “Real” bagels, unlike the typical ones being sold everywhere today, also become hard as rocks if you don’t eat them within an hour after they are baked. An hour after eating a few of them, some non-celiac kids could take a punch in the belly from a prizefighter and not feel it, lol.

Since the New York bagel is considered the “standard”, other cities try to copy it. Here is a Boston website that talks about bagels:

Open Original Shared Link

Terry Montlick writes: "To make a good bagel you've got to use a very heavy, high-gluten dough. In fact, its heavy enough to eventually break a standard commercial dough mixer. I think that's why so many chains have soft, lousy-textured bagels."

David Lewis's mini bagel FAQ:

Q. Does Bruegger's make good bagels?

A. No.

Q. Does Dunkin' Donuts make good bagels?

A. No.

Q. Does Einstein Brothers make good bagels?

A. No, but the stores are hip and trendy, so people claim to like their bagels.

Then there's the "bagels" (as some ne.food writers put it) at Au Bon Pain. "What is WITH that name?,'' says Phaedra Hise. "The thing is nothing remotely resembling a bagel. I mean, there's not even a hole in the center. And the texture is suspiciously bread-like. What gives? Why don't they just call them breakfast rolls or something?"

And don't even get us started on those Thomas' "New York style bagels" at the supermarket. "When Thomas labels their bagels as 'New York Style' they mean 'round, hole in the center, wheat-based' and not much more," Shein says. "In the same context consider their ever-popular recipe for making their english muffins into 'pizza' in the toaster oven by spreading ketchup and american cheese on one (something like that) and its relationship to what's usually called 'pizza' ''. Same goes for Lenders.

My advice is to get the frozen gluten-free bagels, and use a lot of cream cheese. It's as close as we can get to the "real" bagels, and just as good as most of the crappy, fake "bagels" being mass-produced all over the country and world.

I had trouble digesting pizza, also. I grew up around the corner from several pizza places, including the now famous DiFara's - a dingy little place that nonetheless often wins, or is a top runner-up in, New York Magazine's "Best Pizza in New York City", and is in various food guides. It’s still there, in the same location, since the early 1960’s. I sampled some about a year ago, after many years of not living close to them, before my diagnosis & gluten-free diet. My wife and I found it to be too oily for our tastes. Although it’s above average even for Brooklyn, there is better pizza to be had. DiFara’s does not reheat pizza, to their credit, but they charge more than average. Someone once said that after DiFaras painted their ceiling, the pizza wasn't as good because it was missing a key ingredient: the paint chips that would fall down from above!

The following links are for information purposes only, and the foods are NOT gluten free. I’m only providing it as a link to something that I ‘miss”: Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Other famous Brooklyn Pizza Places:

Grimaldi's pizza – have not visited, but many people swear by them.

Totonno's pizza – same as above

L&B Pizza/Spumoni Gardens - different, but very good

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

I could give more "advice" about getting pizza, and what to avoid, in New York, but we can't have it

Maybe someday there will be a cure for Celiac, and we can all gourge on foods with gluten. In the meantime, lets try to maintain our health by avoiding gluten completely.

My advice is to try making your own pizza with cheese, commercial pizza sauces and gluten free pizza dough. Believe me, as a former pizza “connoisseur”, I’m not easy to please – and I like this home made gluten-free pizza almost as much as the “best” pizzas in the world. Making it fresh is far better than any frozen ready-made pizza (gluten-free or otherwise) and also better than “reheated” slices in pizza places.

[celiac3270]

There's nothing like a good NYC bagel (I know, I used to eat them every morning). There are substitutes you get used to, but they are lighter and not really bagelish (Glutino makes an okay "bagel" that I now eat every morning).

There are actually some really excellent pizzas. For frozen pizzas, Foods By George makes a phenomenal one, which is also ridiculously expensive--a treat. Chebe makes an affordable mix (just add eggs & water for crust and then top with sauce, cheese, etc.) that I learned about in my first month and shared here--I converted quite a few .

-celiac3270

EDIT: Forgot to mention, if you live in the NYC area, go to Risotteria -- the best eating experience I've ever had! Risotteria.com

[CeliaCruz]

Woo! Brooklyn! I'm from Boerum Hill!

I, too, am a total chauvinist about the quality of pizza and bagels in Brooklyn (and all of NYC, for that matter). Nothing can compete. Even as a celiac, I take pride in these forbidden foods from my hometown!

And that's why I just don't do the gluten-free alternatives. If it's not going to be that good, why bother? I enjoyed many years of being able to eat H&H bagels and Stromboli Pizza (or at least I THOUGHT I was able to...) and I'll just have to content myself with memories. And I'm not going to taint these memories by getting my palette used to inferior versions.

[celiachap]

There are actually some really excellent pizzas. For frozen pizzas, Foods By George makes a phenomenal one, which is also ridiculously expensive.....EDIT: Forgot to mention, if you live in the NYC area, go to Risotteria -- the best eating experience I've ever had! Risotteria.com

I have a "Foods by George" frozen Pizza in the freezer, and expect to try it this weekend. I believe that they make gluten-free pizza dough, also - which I may have tried. I've had several of the gluten-free doughs, and they were all very good - and different from each other.

I've been to Risotteria's restaurant in NYC, and plan on going back again to try their other gluten-free specialties.

[krinspw]

My advice is to try making your own pizza with cheese, commercial pizza sauces and gluten free pizza dough. Believe me, as a former pizza “connoisseur”, I’m not easy to please – and I like this home made gluten-free pizza almost as much as the “best” pizzas in the world. Making it fresh is far better than any frozen ready-made pizza (gluten-free or otherwise) and also better than “reheated” slices in pizza places.

I'm new to this site, but I was wondering what recipe you used to make fresh gluten-free pizza's which you thought were just as good as the 'best' pizzas

[cyberprof]

I'm new to this site, but I was wondering what recipe you used to make fresh gluten-free pizza's which you thought were just as good as the 'best' pizzas

Krisnpw, Celiachap hasn't posted here since January 2006 so it's unlikely that he/she will reply.

There are many threads here about pizza.

Here's the recipe that I like best...I tried about 8 before finding this one. Open Original Shared Link

I use my own sauce and I don't broil it after adding the sauce on top of the pre-baked shell, I just top it and bake it for 10 minutes or so. I also make four small pizzas and freeze two or three, since only my son and I eat them. I thaw for 5-10 minutes, top and bake.

The dough doesn't look like much while you're making it (more like a batter) but tastes great. When you're spreading it, dip your fingers into olive oil.

For pizza crust

3/4 cup tapioca flour

1/2 cup white rice flour*

1/3 cup chickpea flour

1/3 cup sorghum flour

1 teaspoon xanthum gum

1 teaspoon fine sea salt

1/2 cup whole milk

2 1/4 teaspoons active dry yeast, from 1 (1/4-ounce) package

2 teaspoons sugar

2 large egg whites, lightly beaten

3 tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon extra-virgin olive oil

*Be sure to use white rice flour; brown will result in gritty pizza dough.

Make pizza crust

In bowl of electric mixer, whisk together tapioca flour, white rice flour, chickpea flour, sorghum flour, xanthum gum, and salt.

In small saucepan over moderate heat, stir together milk and 1/4 cup water and heat until warm but not hot to the touch, about 1 minute (the mixture should register between 105

[Fiddle-Faddle]

I used to live in Manhattan.

I'm perfectly happy with gluten-free pizza I make myself. I have yet to try a frozen one that I find better than reasonably edible, though.

And as far as bagels are concerned, well, outside of New York City, bagels are just an excuse for lox and cream cheese! So, while I HATE all the frozen pre-made gluten-free breads, I find them quite passable when toasted, schmeared, and topped with Nova lox. And maybe tomato and onion...

[Amyleigh0007]

Andrea's Fine Foods makes awesome gluten free pizza. She is based out of St. Louis but she has a website and delivers all over. Her pizza is by far the best I've tasted and my very picky son agrees. I have to drive 45 minutes to get it but it's worth it.

[dbmamaz]

I tried buying gluten-free frozen pizzas for my son twice - one he ate and one he didnt. THen we had more testing done and realized he's allergic to tomatos, and even tho it didnt show up on tests, I swear dairy makes him stammer more. I made a from-scratch pizza with gluten-free crust (recipe from gluten free baking basics), home-made nomato sauce (base of sweet red peppers and butternut squash), and soy mozzerella.

Despite the fact that this gluten-free pizza had neither real sauce nor real cheese, my son still said it was the best pizza sub he'd had. So that just shows how much better home-made is.

[Juliebove]

I used to make a Foccacia bread as a crust for pizza. Very good but we can't have dairy so coming up with a good cheese was hard to do. I have since found an excellent substitute for the cheese.

I quit making the Foccacia when I discovered the Namaste mix. Very good stuff.

But I quit using that when I discovered Ener-G rice pizza shells. Not quite as good perhaps but better for me because I am diabetic and have to watch my carbs. They are a thin crust. Daughter likes them. And best of all they are quick to fix. They're already made. I just top them and bake them.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Would corn tortillas work better for you from the carb standpoint (they're thinner)? They are very easy to make pizza with, and if you cook them on both sides before topping, they get nice and crispy.

THey're also very cheap and easily available. :)