Omg...i Might Be On To Something

[Rachel--24]

I just only today started looking on the net for info about MSG and here is the MSG trial test diet that might be helpful to anyone who is interested:

Eat the following foods for at least 1 week and judge for yourself if excitotoxin (MSG, Aspartame, L-cysteine) enhanced foods are causing your health problems. Stop taking vitamins, supplements, protein drinks, protein bars, soy products, or protein products of any kind. If possible, stop taking over-the-counter medications and prescribed medications unless they are absolutely necessary during this period. Many fillers, binders, coatings, and gelcaps contain sources of glutamate. Avoid all candies, chips, crackers, ice cream, and processed snacks. Drink only water, organic whole milk (unless dairy intolerent), and Rice Dream rice beverage (plain original variety in blue box). Avoid coffee and tea for now.

Eat the following when hungry and/or at meal times.

Julie....I read that too! I'm gonna order the book if it seems I'm on the right track. I usually jump in full force and 2 weeks later when I realize I havent found the answer yet...I've already spent a good amount of money on stuff. You'd think I'd learn by now.

After reading some of the posts on that board I'm gonna go the caveman route cuz the people who are as "reactive" as I am seem to do better without the dairy products in the beginning. I cant do the Rice Dream cuz its got gluten and the other ones have MSG...so no rice milk. The list of MSG ingredients to avoid says no "ultra pastuerized" anything because the more pastuerized it is the more free MSG it has. People sensitive to MSG react to ultrapasturized milk. This is actually what I used to "test" myself last week and I had a major reaction so I'm just avoiding dairy for now. When I get better I'll try the pastuerized whole milk and see if I react. They say lowfat and nonfat have alot of MSG.

I brush my teeth with baking soda.

[Green12]

Julie....I read that too! I'm gonna order the book if it seems I'm on the right track. I usually jump in full force and 2 weeks later when I realize I havent found the answer yet...I've already spent a good amount of money on stuff. You'd think I'd learn by now.

After reading some of the posts on that board I'm gonna go the caveman route cuz the people who are as "reactive" as I am seem to do better without the dairy products in the beginning. I cant do the Rice Dream cuz its got gluten and the other ones have MSG...so no rice milk. The list of MSG ingredients to avoid says no "ultra pastuerized" anything because the more pastuerized it is the more free MSG it has. People sensitive to MSG react to ultrapasturized milk. This is actually what I used to "test" myself last week and I had a major reaction so I'm just avoiding dairy for now. When I get better I'll try the pastuerized whole milk and see if I react. They say lowfat and nonfat have alot of MSG.

I brush my teeth with baking soda.

The book, Battling the MSG Myth by Debby Anglesey- I think I am going to get it too.

I agree that it is probably safer to do just meat veggies and fruit (the allowed ones) for the most sensitive of individuals. I was eating ALOT of rice and rice products myself, and eggs, and I think they were becoming a problem so I must be destined to eat my meat, fruit, and veggies. Oh yay! I am going to have to learn how to get creative.

What is the word on olive oil? Do you know if it is safe? I can't eem to find that info. And what about raw nuts?

I will keep investigating....

[Rachel--24]

Rachel and Julie,

I can't tell you how comforting it is to know that someone else on this planet has had these strange symptoms! I've had such a hard time trying to figure out the cause, and whenever I go to an md they dismiss the face swelling and fluid retention as unimportant.

I'm pretty small boned, but sometimes I swell up so much that I can literally put on 10 pounds or more overnight. Of course, that's when people who don't know me think I look 'healthy' because my weight is higher. It is so frustrating/painful/depressing.

Calicat,

When I told the doctor I was gaining up to 8 lbs of fluid and then losing it overnight he told me he found that hard to believe. I guess he was calling me a liar.

Even though I was gaining all this fluid everyday...I was losing my *real* weight. I was getting to be just bones and water. At least now (no thanx to the doctors) I'm more meat and less water but thats only cuz of all the food eliminations.

Do you ever get burning sensations or tingling? Around the time I first got sick I was qutiing smoking and started chewing lots of gum. The sugar-free (healthier) kind of gum. YEAH RIGHT! Well whenever I chewed the gum I started having strange sensations on my skin around my mouth. Eventually as my condtion worsened I had a red burning rash around my mouth. Everything made it worse...if I tried to smoke it burned more, things I ate, soda, everthing...but mainly the gum. When I finally figured it out I stopped chewing the gum and the rash went away but the burning has always come and gone....except for when I did the caveman diet last summer....no rash at all. Whenever I get a reaction there is a little redness in the same area but its never gotten as bad as it was when I chewed the gum.

Even way back in the beginning when I had no clue about any of this I knew it was aspartame in the gum causing the reaction. I never ate anything with aspartame other then the gum (which I didnt eat ) but I think the aspartame coupled with the MSG intensified everything. It seems like a chemical reaction so if I'm still getting this same redness and burning/stinging that I did with the Aspartame...it makes sense it would be MSG. The redness came back right when I went off my caveman diet.

What is the word on olive oil? Do you know if it is safe? I can't eem to find that info. And what about raw nuts?

I will keep investigating....

It seemed to me that olive oil was safe. I think nuts are too unless you have a seperate problem with them. I think they said to wash the nuts off really good. Let us know what you find out.

I'm not doing nuts now anyways but always good to know what *might* be in my future!

[whitball]

I believe that I am intolerant to corn also. I was always getting sick. So one day I bought some gorilla munchies? crunchies?, anyways I was a mess. Then I decided that it was all in my head and made pancakes. I looked at the ingredients and there was corn flour and ate the pancakes. All of them. Sick as a dog for hours! I have realized the same unfortunate thing, corn is in everything. I then bought brown rice flour. I wanted pancakes again. I've come to the conclusion that I can never again have a pancake. It's not worth it. Being sick takes too much energy, and takes too much time out of my life. For now I'm living on veggies, fruit, peanut butter, rice cereal, meats, cheese, yogurt, chocolate and cocoa pebbles. I can live with this for now. Good luck to you in finding what you are intolerant to. But be patient. Don't add a bunch of things to your diet. Add one thing at a time. Tara

[Nancym]

You can make pancakes out of anything, it doesn't have to have corn or wheat flour. Your brown rice flour will work fine. I use coconut flour and eggs for pancakes.

[dionnek]

ok - this may sound gross but when I eat corn it comes right out in my poop - does this mean I have a corn intollerance or is it just b/c my intestines haven't healed yet (only been gluten-free for 6 days)? this happens with craisins also, and sometimes black beans.

[dlp252]

Boy do I get that skin burning thing...it feels like a bad sunburn only there is no rash or redness at all. It's painful enough that I don't want clothing to touch the spot. The spots aren't necessarily in the same place either...sometimes it's on my arms, sometimes on my back, sometimes on my legs. I just had it a couple of days ago too.

[danikali]

Well, this is very interesting. It seems all of us do JUST GREAT on fruits, veggies and meat. That seems to be my specialty too. Ever since I had the peanut butter on Sunday, I've been pretty messed up again. Not as bad as before, but almost. I'm very constipated, if I try to go, (this is graphic) but only like a small piece will come out and of course, it floats.....it's horrible. I'm extremely bloated again and I'm not even feeling the urge to go to the bathroom. If I do for a second, I get excited and then I run to the bathroom for nothing to happen. I even had 4 boxes of rasins (the little ones) and still NOTHING. Not to mention I'm eating mostly fruits and veggies. Usually, that will keep me nice and regular, and will clean me out. I still don't have the foul gas like I did before, which is good because it let's me know that what I'm eating now, I'm not intolerant to, but since the peanut butter, I'm just so backed up!

And I know how you all feel. Once you get back to the fruits meat and veggies, and you start feeling like a million bucks, you add something in because you're feeling like you can 'cheat' (if it's even called that for having something like peanut butter!) and you kick yourself because you know how good you feel on the good 'ol fruits, veggies and meat.

I JUST WANT TO GO TO THE BATHROOM!

[jerseyangel]

Hi Dani--I have found the same thing with peanut butter! And I love it Since I started back on the meat/fruit/veggie, I have no more gas, bloating, D, cramps or anything. This time, though, I'm not adding ANYTHING else in--I'm going to do this for at least 6 months before even considering anything else. (It does help me greatly that I can tolerate dark chocolate)! Nice to at least know we're not alone

[Green12]

I JUST WANT TO GO TO THE BATHROOM!

My trick is drinking hot water with the juice of about a half of a fresh lemon squeezed into it. Also eating fresh watermelon sometimes works.

[Rachel--24]

ok - this may sound gross but when I eat corn it comes right out in my poop - does this mean I have a corn intollerance or is it just b/c my intestines haven't healed yet (only been gluten-free for 6 days)? this happens with craisins also, and sometimes black beans.

Are you talking about whole kernal corn? If thats what you're referring to...its normal. Its not easily digested and you can see it in your stool. It happens to everyone.

[danikali]

Patti, you get constipated from peanut butter too? ugh! Okay, I'm going to get a fruit salad right now. There is this guy on Wall St. with a little cart and he makes the BIGGEST fresh fruit salad. He also makes smoothies....it's great! That's my lunch! (There's watermelon in it.....I never knew, but that is supposed to help? ) I'm not in any pain, just backed up. I can't wait to be normal again. The past 3 weeks have been Heaven on Earth. I've been perfect eating rice cakes, fruit, veggies, meat, fish, NOTHING ELSE. Then of course I add peanut butter and here I go again. I'm with you Patti, 6 months minimum of not changing things up........3 weeks isn't long enough! haha.

[Green12]

I still have so many questions about an MSG free diet/lifestyle. I wonder about using fresh herbs to cook with? And I wonder if the Paleolithic diet would be the same as a caveman diet? What about beans/legumes, I think they are allowed in a paleolithic diet??

Maybe we could all share recipes so we don't get bored with our meals??

[Calicat]

Rachel,

I've had this persistent rash on my forehead and also around my mouth for weeks now. Finally stopped all supplements except my thyroid medicine, and it is beginning to go away(thank goodness!). Now that I know that all supplements in gelatin capsules contain MSG I'm wondering if that was the cause of the mystery rash.

Also, I've had a small strange rash right near my mouth and any time I try expanding my diet, even in seemingly benign ways, I get redness in the exact same spot, just like you mentioned. Same thing on my ankle. I guess the good thing is that having a particular spot might be like a gauge for whether or not you've gotten 'MSGed.' The more I read about it, the more convinced I become that it could really be a huge part of the problem.

I can't believe that you've had something so similar. Also the burning sensation...I get that really badly in my feet sometimes, like they're on fire. And the veins in my arms and hands swell up too when that happens. The way you described the post about the head swelling was right on. I always say it feels like someone stuck a hanger in my mouth, because that's where I feel it stretching first. Sometimes it happens after I eat grapes, and often after ice cream. Now I'm thinking this is all MSG related. What a relief if this is it!! I've been feeling like I must be the only person in the world to have this weird intermittent face stretching/swelling.

Does your throat ever swell up when your head does? Sometimes my neck gets pretty swollen too. I'm planning to go back to a caveman style diet, (supplement free!!) since that is the only thing that has helped me too.

Do you have links for the MSG message boards you mentioned? Thanks so much

[Rachel--24]

I still have so many questions about an MSG free diet/lifestyle. I wonder about using fresh herbs to cook with? And I wonder if the Paleolithic diet would be the same as a caveman diet? What about beans/legumes, I think they are allowed in a paleolithic diet??

Maybe we could all share recipes so we don't get bored with our meals??

Julie, I havent seen anything bad about herbs. If you're super sensitive to MSG I dont think you're suppossed to do beans at first...if you're trying to detox. I just read something about beans but now I cant remember what it said.

Something about free glutamate being created during the cooking process. I think thats what happens with anything containing glutamates that gets boiled or heated. Most people wouldnt react....probably only those who are already in a highly reactive state. I never read into the Paleo diet so I dont know whats allowed on that diet.

[Rachel--24]

Rachel,

I've had this persistent rash on my forehead and also around my mouth for weeks now. Finally stopped all supplements except my thyroid medicine, and it is beginning to go away(thank goodness!). Now that I know that all supplements in gelatin capsules contain MSG I'm wondering if that was the cause of the mystery rash.

Also, I've had a small strange rash right near my mouth and any time I try expanding my diet, even in seemingly benign ways, I get redness in the exact same spot, just like you mentioned. Same thing on my ankle. I guess the good thing is that having a particular spot might be like a gauge for whether or not you've gotten 'MSGed.' The more I read about it, the more convinced I become that it could really be a huge part of the problem.

I can't believe that you've had something so similar. Also the burning sensation...I get that really badly in my feet sometimes, like they're on fire. And the veins in my arms and hands swell up too when that happens. The way you described the post about the head swelling was right on. I always say it feels like someone stuck a hanger in my mouth, because that's where I feel it stretching first. Sometimes it happens after I eat grapes, and often after ice cream. Now I'm thinking this is all MSG related. What a relief if this is it!! I've been feeling like I must be the only person in the world to have this weird intermittent face stretching/swelling.

Does your throat ever swell up when your head does? Sometimes my neck gets pretty swollen too. I'm planning to go back to a caveman style diet, (supplement free!!) since that is the only thing that has helped me too.

Do you have links for the MSG message boards you mentioned? Thanks so much

CaliCat,

Omg....I cant believe how similar our symtoms are! I have a strong stretching or pulling type feeling too...it hurts my jaw. I get the swollen veins everywhere....I can see them in my temples, hands, arms and feet....sometimes even on my chest. Yes, my neck swells too. When I push on any area of swelling it creates more pressure in other areas....its really weird. Like if I push on my hands when the veins are all swollen or on my neck....I can feel the pressure build up in my head. I cant eat grapes either. They can be sprayed with msg but they always contain Sulfites. From what I've read most people who react severely to msg will also react to sulfites.

I dont do well with dried fruits, grapes and wine so I'm sure I'm sensitive to sulfites....probably secondary to MSG and aspartame.

Our symptoms match up perfectly for MSG reactions....did you ever know about MSG before? I'm still really amazed that such a bad thing is in our food and I never knew.

Oh....from like January till April I was taking different supplements from my doctor and slowly I got worse....I was reacting to perfumes like crazy. He also put me on an antibiotic for 2 weeks and that was really horrible....I thought they contained gluten but JerseyAngel checked and they were gluten free. I bet it was msg in all this stuff.

After my round of antibiotics I felt some relief but then my doctor had me triple the amount of supplements and I got way worse again. Also I had constant burning on my feet and itchy bumps on all my toes.....they looked like bug bites but were not. I started having hot flashes all through my body but especially my feet. When I stopped taking everything the hot flashes stopped and no more itchy burning toes.

Yeah my throat swells up sometimes too...I only had it happen really bad one time. It doesnt really bother me except if I swallow...when I was real sick and eating all the normal food my throat was always swollen and so was my tongue. It always hurt to swallow. It even hurt my face to smile back then...I was really messed up.

[Green12]

Julie, I havent seen anything bad about herbs. If you're super sensitive to MSG I dont think you're suppossed to do beans at first...if you're trying to detox. I just read something about beans but now I cant remember what it said.

Something about free glutamate being created during the cooking process. I think thats what happens with anything containing glutamates that gets boiled or heated. Most people wouldnt react....probably only those who are already in a highly reactive state. I never read into the Paleo diet so I dont know whats allowed on that diet.

Ok thanks Rachel for this info. Basically as I understand it a Paleo diet is a diet based on that time period which would be a diet of the caveman so maybe they are one in the same.

Thank goodness fresh herbs are ok, that gives meats so much more flavor.

I think maybe I read something along the same lines about cooking things and making glutamates stronger or something, I've read so much I can't remember. Something about even pressure cookers being a no no or aluminum cookware and then cooking with acid, I didn't come across the legumes yet, but that throws a little glitch in cooking things. I need to read more to better understand it.

Calicat,

The burning feet, that is exactly what I experience. It is like they are on fire. It has to be a chemical reaction I would think and then the rashes.

I have always thought that was a problem for me, the chemicals, preservatives, and additives in foods and products and now I am more convinced than ever and so angry that the health industry is trying to pull one over on us that their products are all natural and safe because they are pumping their food with the toxins too. It's BS!!

Boy do I get that skin burning thing...it feels like a bad sunburn only there is no rash or redness at all. It's painful enough that I don't want clothing to touch the spot. The spots aren't necessarily in the same place either...sometimes it's on my arms, sometimes on my back, sometimes on my legs. I just had it a couple of days ago too.

dlp,

Isn't that the worst? You are right there is so much heat like a sunburn but absolutley no redness.

dani,

good luck trying to set yourself free

[Rachel--24]

The burning feet, that is exactly what I experience. It is like they are on fire. It has to be a chemical reaction I would think and then the rashes.

Wow Julie...you too with the burning feet.....maybe we all have the same thing going on. Maybe we would all be healthy if it werent for all the poison we were unknowingly consuming.

Did either of you guys ever get redness with itchy bumps on your feet or toes?

[Green12]

Wow Julie...you too with the burning feet.....maybe we all have the same thing going on. Maybe we would all be healthy if it werent for all the poison we were unknowingly consuming.

Did either of you guys ever get redness with itchy bumps on your feet or toes?

I think we can start our own support group re this!

Yes, I do get red bumps on my toes and my feet will itch really badly. of course they will swell up like nobody's business, so my poor feet will be huge, burning hot, itchy with red bumps on my toes. It's a real pretty sight!

[danikali]

dani,

good luck trying to set yourself free

hahah you're so funny! But I just did! All of this fruit finally worked! I feel so much better now. How good does it feel to get all of that bad stuff inside of you out!??! hhaha....I feel like I have a fresh new start again. No more diviating.

Anyway, I noticed that some of you are talking about a rash around your lips. I get that too, and then it spreads to my whole face. It starts on my lips, and it itches really bad, then it goes to my whole face and itches like CRAZY! Sometimes I get very very very little bumps, but only around my lips and chin, but you can barley see them. And around the rest of my face, it just gets really really really red and itchy. For example, did you ever get sun burnt and when it starts to fade, it gets really itchy? Well that's what it's like. But I've always associated it with getting glutened because sometimes when I get it, I get muscle aches like I used to get when I ate gluten straight. Not as bad as actually eating it, but still, noticeable. And I thought it was from kissing my fiance after he ate gluten because it was around my lips. Maybe not though.....because although I make sure he's 'scoped' before kissing him now, I've also been on a whole other diet and the rash hasn't come back yet. (knock on wood). Anyone ever get a rash like this? Oh yeah, I put some over the counter dermatitis/excema creme on it when this happens and then it starts to peal and go away.

Anyway....so happy that I went number 2! hahaha

Oh and Rachel, I get itchy weird red bumps on my hands, fingers and around my wrists. It doesn't swell up or anything, but I get them a lot and it itches really bad until I put like calamine lotion or aloe on it.

[VydorScope]

I have a freind that dsicovered he had a MSG problem a couple years ago. He siad now that he is healed, he can actauly tolerate it in tiny amounts ocassionaly with out a reaction. So theres a bit of hope for you.

[Warrior Woman]

The paleo Diet is:

meat (lean cuts and organs, hopefully organic, antibiotic-free)

fish

eggs

fruits

veggies

nuts (for some reason I think peanuts are out)

There are NO:

beans

dairy of any kind

and some veggies are out like green beans, potatoes, sw potates

grains of any kind

the book is interesting, I have it, and there seem to be some good recipes in the back. People have success with it.

The doctor/scientist has some good data. But then you can read Eat to Live and he says (Dr Fuhrman) the less meat you eat, the better, likes beans but is against grains as well.

I combine the both of them. How can you go wrong with:

tons of veggies, fruits, lean meat, beans and nuts?

[christine 25]

Hi calicat, Rachel,,, everyone.

I also have symptoms of facial swelling and jaw pain, rash and sensitivity to foods and chemicals, ie perfumes, most foods, im sure MSG, pills, fillers, dyes, makeup etc... and anything artifical.

Its been hard trying to figure this whole thing out, because my doctors dont seem to have the foggiest idea, and think its not a big deal, its nice to know that there is support and that im not alone.

The caveman diet sounds like a good idea.

Calicat, I get the throat swelling and feeling of fullness in there too, espically after dairy, I also get a metallic taste in my mouth and stomach aches with certain foods.

I have more symptoms but I wont go through them all.

Its good to know that were all here to help eachother.

So far today I ate a salad with mandrin oranges and chicken, no dressing and I seem to be doing ok...

Gotta figure out what to eat later tho,,, I kinda feel scared to eat...because of the pain, but I know I have to.

Christina

[penguin]

nuts (for some reason I think peanuts are out)

It's probably because peanuts are beans (legumes), not nuts.

[Calicat]

A few more words about MSG...

I've been calling companies all morning and asking about questionable ingredients seems to be pretty useless most of the time and often earns you a very rude response but the folks at Crest toothpaste were very nice and admitted that they aren't sure of the specifics of the "flavors" used, and/or can't disclose them.

When I told the woman why I wanted to know she basically said it could contain it, and i really appreciated her honesty. For those of us who think MSG is a problem and haven't switched yet, I guess it's time to break out the baking soda!

About the MSG-Pesticide concern. The msgmyth website says that Auxigro can probably cause reactions in people who are MSG-sensitive. Unfortunately I don't know how you tell if the particular fruits and veggies you're buying have been treated with it or not, but according to the company's site, it is used on the following crops: almonds, apples, avocado, cherries, corn, grapefruit, grapes, lima beans, mango, melons, onions, peaches and plums, pineapples, potatoes, snap beans and tomatoes.

Don't know if any of this is helpful or not, but I thought i'd pass it on just in case.

Christine, I also get that tinny metallic taste after certain foods. not sure why though. I hope dinner goes okay. I know how scary it can be trying to figure out what is "safe."

Julie and Rachel, I get the burning sensation on my feet and they get very itchy but i don't think i've gotten the rash on my toes.

I think we've already started a support group. What a comfort it is to be able to talk to people who 'get it'!