Shocking Story

[plantime]

I, too, questioned (and still do) her story. It is shocking, and I'm sure it happens. What makes me ask questions is her lack of response when questions are asked, and her evasion. She keeps repeating the same things, over and over. We all gave suggestions and support, but she doesn't seem to want that. It is as though she only wants us to give her a pity party. When I voiced my questions, she said shame on me for asking! I was not trying to be insensitive, I only want to know the truth. She is unwilling to tell us what we need to know to help her, so I am unwilling to offer my sympathy. Don't try to rain shame down on my head, I been emotionally blackmailed enough over the years to not fall for it. As far as another poster going to play with her kids, knowing Cindy doesn't have hers, well, life goes on for the rest of the world. Should we all stop playing with our kids because Cindy doesn't have hers? How is that going to help Cindy? How much will it, in reality, hurt our kids? If her story is true, then she is in for a hard fight with cps. She needs to toughen up and get a grip.

[oceangirl]

I, too, questioned (and still do) her story. It is shocking, and I'm sure it happens. What makes me ask questions is her lack of response when questions are asked, and her evasion. She keeps repeating the same things, over and over. We all gave suggestions and support, but she doesn't seem to want that. It is as though she only wants us to give her a pity party. When I voiced my questions, she said shame on me for asking! I was not trying to be insensitive, I only want to know the truth. She is unwilling to tell us what we need to know to help her, so I am unwilling to offer my sympathy. Don't try to rain shame down on my head, I been emotionally blackmailed enough over the years to not fall for it. As far as another poster going to play with her kids, knowing Cindy doesn't have hers, well, life goes on for the rest of the world. Should we all stop playing with our kids because Cindy doesn't have hers? How is that going to help Cindy? How much will it, in reality, hurt our kids? If her story is true, then she is in for a hard fight with cps. She needs to toughen up and get a grip.

Tavi and Plantime have argued beautifully that "support" does not mean no questions. The best relationships are those in which adults meet adults in mutual respect and have the "chops" to deal when one or the other asks tough questions of the other. Without this, people are just "nice", a word I've come to despise. I, personally, don't want "nice", I want "real", and you need to have chops and be willing to tell and hear each other's truths in order to be real. If this is a "support group" that simply says "rah-rah!" when odd things are jumping out at them, I, too, have no use for it. Question everything.

If I don't "support" the war in Irag, don't question every step the U.S. (a country I care about) has taken, I don't "support" the troops? We could go on with the dark meaning of such a world. A true story will hold up to scrutiny, have no fear. No one wishes ill for anyone on this board, that is quite clear. The opposite in fact is true. I applaud the inquiring minds. And I applaud not succumbing to emotional blackmail. We all wish for the best possible outcome for all involved. However, until all parties involved disclose the entire truth no true progress can be made. Boy, do I know this from working with teens who are GIFTED at telling partial truths. (They'd lie when the truth would save them.) Anyway, blah, blah, blah....be quiet, lisa

lisa

lisa

[chrissy]

is there maybe a newspaper article somewhere that could verify this story, or is this something that would not be on public record?

[Rikki Tikki]

Thanks Lisa and Plantime, Robbin:

Chrissy:

This would be confidential information and wouldn't be posted anywhere. I think it's just something we are going to have to agree to disagree on or else it's going to end up where we are angry at each other, it already feels like we have taken sides and after 3 years on the board I hate to see that happen.

I think we have to take people at their word here, it's their truth and as we all know we don't all see truth the same way.

I did see that Cindy is doing PM ing with others and if I drove her off the board than I am truly sorry for that. I felt that when I asked a couple of questions and they were not answered that more was going on and that is why I backed off. I also felt like things were not adding up, I was getting this knot in my stomach and felt I should follow my gut.

Again, if I was wrong then I am very sorry, as always I pray that the children are ok and that she does what she needs to do to get them back. It's not an easy road I am sure.

[Guest nini]

I don't want to get into a debate about the semantics of the word "support", I was just trying to remind everyone, calmly, that this is a support board and people come here for all kinds of support.

oh and Tavi, Cindy said she's tried answering the questions privately because she doesn't want the confidential info on the public forum, but that her pm's to you are being blocked.

[Rikki Tikki]

Yes, nini she is correct I did block the PM from her after the third one did not answer any questions. I am not sure it is wise of her to even PM this confidential information as it is way too easy to contact the doctor that she has stated made the accusations.

As I stated after that I felt it was best that I say a prayer for her and her kids and that I back out of it. It doesn't have to be right, it just is the way I feel. I do wish her well and if my questions offended her I can only assure her I will never respond to another post she may care to make.

As far as the word support, it means different things to different people so "semantics" are really not relevant to me. I have always enjoyed your posts nini and feel that I do not wish to take this to a personal level. As I stated I think this is one we just need to agree to disagree and go on from there. How about a truce?

[2kids4me]

And one person made a very hurtful comment that they were going to play games with their children knowing full well that Cindy lost possession of her own children or at least they knew she claimed she lost possession.

Is that about my comment ?? and Cindy responded with:

Thankyou very much I so agree, I do need to focus on my issue at hand not on who believs what. You have been wonderful help to me, and I appreciate all your valuable info. Please take care and enjoy your children.

Cindy seemed to get the message - to focus on her children - as I was going to do instead of staying at the computer PM'ing over this... as you read from the signature- I have struggled with difficulties since my daughter was born.. once with life threatening heart damage and we give needles 3 times a day to my son.

Maybe I am just plain stupid fo not knowing I was being insulting, guess I never knew by Cindy's reply. I just got back after 3 days away.

If I was ignorant in my comment I do apologize profusely - I was making the point that she did not have to waste her precious time emailing me - that she should focus her energy on her kids and not worry what I or anyone else thought........

Call it a brain fart or stupidity on my part - wasnt thinking, whatever. Wasnt meant as hurtful !!

[Guest nini]

Yes, nini she is correct I did block the PM from her after the third one did not answer any questions. I am not sure it is wise of her to even PM this confidential information as it is way too easy to contact the doctor that she has stated made the accusations.

As I stated after that I felt it was best that I say a prayer for her and her kids and that I back out of it. It doesn't have to be right, it just is the way I feel. I do wish her well and if my questions offended her I can only assure her I will never respond to another post she may care to make.

As far as the word support, it means different things to different people so "semantics" are really not relevant to me. I have always enjoyed your posts nini and feel that I do not wish to take this to a personal level. As I stated I think this is one we just need to agree to disagree and go on from there. How about a truce?

I'm certainly not trying to argue or take anything to a personal level, I just feel differently about this than you do.

[Canadian Karen]

Is that about my comment ?? and Cindy responded with:

Cindy seemed to get the message - to focus on her children - as I was going to do instead of staying at the computer PM'ing over this... as you read from the signature- I have struggled with difficulties since my daughter was born.. once with life threatening heart damage and we give needles 3 times a day to my son.

Maybe I am just plain stupid fo not knowing I was being insulting, guess I never knew by Cindy's reply. I just got back after 3 days away.

If I was ignorant in my comment I do apologize profusely - I was making the point that she did not have to waste her precious time emailing me - that she should focus her energy on her kids and not worry what I or anyone else thought........

Call it a brain fart or stupidity on my part - wasnt thinking, whatever. Wasnt meant as hurtful !!

Good Lord, I can state emphatically that you don't have a mean bone in your body. Hugs.

Karen

[Rikki Tikki]

I'm certainly not trying to argue or take anything to a personal level, I just feel differently about this than you do.

And that is what makes the world go around!

Anyway this has gotten way off the subject, so again I will just wish Cindy well and pray for the kids

[Rikki Tikki]

Anyone heard anything more about Cindy?

[mommida]

This topic was on Montel Williams show today. It may have a link to some legal support on the show's web site. I saw at least two families where children were removed from the parents custody because of their children symptoms of medical conditions. (I could not watch the entire show because it made me want to puke! I thought of Cindy as I watched this mother's face show the agony of reliving the pain to tell her story. For the record- there is no way I would be able to carry on an intelligent conversation with any one if I was in this kind of situation.)

[Nic]

This topic was on Montel Williams show today. It may have a link to some legal support on the show's web site. I saw at least two families where children were removed from the parents custody because of their children symptoms of medical conditions. (I could not watch the entire show because it made me want to puke! I thought of Cindy as I watched this mother's face show the agony of reliving the pain to tell her story. For the record- there is no way I would be able to carry on an intelligent conversation with any one if I was in this kind of situation.)

I heard from Cindy yesterday morning. She said that the woman named Linda on Montel is a friend of hers.

Nicole

[Gcbec]

As I told many I did not want to post anymore because I do not want to cause conflict with anyone. But I was happy to see that there were some that watched the show on Montel yesterday. For those that didnt I think if you go to Montel show dot com you can read about it. Yes the wonderful lady on there is a friend that I met, though MSBP support group. They were the ones that suggested I try to find friends with celiac for more support. Linda lost her daughter for 18 months, and at the end she was guilty of loving her daughter too much. I know there are people that cant imagine how or why and think that there should be a simple answer for this, there is not as the people on Montel said yesterday. I dont know how to explain it in a way that makes sense to anyone becasue I cant even make sense of it. All I can tell you is, like everyone here like every mother, or father, when your child is sick you get them help, you dont give up. If anyone at anytime looked at us and said, your child is totally normal, there is nothing wrong, although we wouldnt agree we would accept it. NOT ONE time did this happen, everytime we were sent to a dr we were sent to another. I apologise to anyone if I offended you, or didnt answer your questions, most of the questions we dont have answers too. What I can say is, and after watching the show or reading on montels web site, that I hope this will give you all an idea of what our family is going through. Please keep our family in your prayers and all the families that are going through this trauma. God Bless you all, I know even the ones that question beleive in there hearts the truth.

Cindy

[Guest BERNESES]

Cindy- Just wanted to let you know your family is still in my prayers. B

[ravenwoodglass]

As I told many I did not want to post anymore because I do not want to cause conflict with anyone. But I was happy to see that there were some that watched the show on Montel yesterday. For those that didnt I think if you go to Montel show dot com you can read about it. Yes the wonderful lady on there is a friend that I met, though MSBP support group. They were the ones that suggested I try to find friends with celiac for more support. Linda lost her daughter for 18 months, and at the end she was guilty of loving her daughter too much. I know there are people that cant imagine how or why and think that there should be a simple answer for this, there is not as the people on Montel said yesterday. I dont know how to explain it in a way that makes sense to anyone becasue I cant even make sense of it. All I can tell you is, like everyone here like every mother, or father, when your child is sick you get them help, you dont give up. If anyone at anytime looked at us and said, your child is totally normal, there is nothing wrong, although we wouldnt agree we would accept it. NOT ONE time did this happen, everytime we were sent to a dr we were sent to another. I apologise to anyone if I offended you, or didnt answer your questions, most of the questions we dont have answers too. What I can say is, and after watching the show or reading on montels web site, that I hope this will give you all an idea of what our family is going through. Please keep our family in your prayers and all the families that are going through this trauma. God Bless you all, I know even the ones that question beleive in there hearts the truth.

Cindy

Cindy I just wanted to let you know the prayers are still coming your way. I sincerely hope this is resolved soon and the kids are back home where they should be.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Her lawyer can have the child tested for celiac, I have checked on this,

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING.

How many of us here have been tested, and the results were negative? Or iffy? Or the doctors either didn't know how to correctly interpret the results ("Just because your IgG is off the charts doesn't mean you have any problem with gluten, it could be IBS or any number of things," or, in my case, actually lied ("Your bloodwork was totally normal,")?

It's not as simple as ordering a test. They will need a doctor with a decent understanding of celiac and gluten issues AND willing and capable of arguing in court with the doctors who don't understand celiac but are super highly regarded--good luck finding that in this country

[Gcbec]

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING.

How many of us here have been tested, and the results were negative? Or iffy? Or the doctors either didn't know how to correctly interpret the results ("Just because your IgG is off the charts doesn't mean you have any problem with gluten, it could be IBS or any number of things," or, in my case, actually lied ("Your bloodwork was totally normal,")?

It's not as simple as ordering a test. They will need a doctor with a decent understanding of celiac and gluten issues AND willing and capable of arguing in court with the doctors who don't understand celiac but are super highly regarded--good luck finding that in this country

Thanks, You are correct, NO DR will even look at his file let alone get involved. I am not going to even debate the court order thing, lets just say its not possible. My only true hope is to get my children back and then try gluten free. Unless a miracle worker comes foward and desides to take a stand and give my son a diagnosis,and like you said willing to argue in court, there is not anything else I can do until I have them home. Thanks Fiddle

[Rikki Tikki]

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING.

No actually I WASN'T KIDDING. The child has an attorney, that parents have an attorney, either attorney can ask that the court have the child tested by any specialist out there, yes even one that specializes in celiac, and the State will pay for it.

[plantime]

No actually I WASN'T KIDDING. The child has an attorney, that parents have an attorney, either attorney can ask that the court have the child tested by any specialist out there, yes even one that specializes in celiac, and the State will pay for it.

Tavi is right about this. Each child involved has a lawyer, separate from the state and Cindy's lawyers. Cindy's lawyer needs to get with the children's lawyers and take them a copy of Cindy's celiac diagnosis. The children's lawyers will then >have< to research it, and order the appropriate tests. Doctors will not be able to say no, the tests will be court-ordered at that point.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

My point is that the test isn't necessarily going to help. Haven't you seen the number of people on this board WHOSE BLOOD TESTS WERE EITHER NEGATIVE OR INCONCLUSIVE? What is Cindy going to do if they order a blood test--and it's either negative or inconclusive? That might sever her parental rights forever.

I am going on the assumption that Cindy is innocent simply because I've had to face so many doctors who didn't believe ME--not just about gluten, but for all kinds of things. I had one pediatrician pat me on the head and tell me that the mercury that was in the vaccines was perfectly safe because it was the "other" kind of mercury. Another told me that my son's skin was yellow because of his father's Asian heritage; a week later, the cardiologist told me that it was yellow because his liver was enlarged and he was in congestive heart failure. I could go on and on here, but I think you get the idea.

What's missing to my eyes is Cindy's lack of writing ability. (Sorry, Cindy, I'm being blunt here, not to attack you, but to say what I think you are doing wrong here, what might be hurting your case.) Her thoughts are disorganized, there are spelling and grammar errors everywhere, and her ideas are not coherently expressed. Now, when she is not totally frantic because her kids have been taken away, she may be a marvelous writer; or maybe she just has not had the opportunites for education that others have had. Either way, it has an effect just as how you look has an effect. And most people will look at what she's written and not take her seriously, just as they wouldn't take her seriously if she dresses in dirty and ragged clothing. If she appears and speaks the way she writes, then that's not going to help her.

It's hard enough to make a good case for yourself even when you are good at writing or public speaking Even when I have felt like I've made a good, well-researched case to my doctors, they have not taken me seriously, and some have treated me like a complete idiot. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about; most of you have probably been down the same road.

[2kids4me]

We took him to dr, who sent us to another dr who sent us to another dr. One dr did endoscopy and said he didnt think it was celiac but showed lots of imflamation. In January we went to imunologist, we were told he had FMF a genetic disorder, then we were sent to a pediatrician to help with his care. This pediatrician came to the conclusion that I was lying and my son was not sick and had my children removed from there loving, safe home. This was June 10th, we recieved records last week from immunologist, in there it shows My son had positive IGG for Celiac 3 times the normal level.

Now I am totally confused, the original post stated that there already WAS BLOOD WORK showing elevated levels. Lawyers are supposed to look at documents - like medical records. Even if no one else looked at the file. Cindy's lawyer should be looking - correct?? So how come this lawyer wouldnt present the documents as evidence and have them marked as an exhibit (?)

A doctor whose specialty is immunology diagnoses a condition that requires genetic testing (?) Then when Cindy is referred for the purpose of caring for child with FMT - that doctor says Cindy's not a fit parent. Another part that makes no sense - because if the doctor thought the child "wasnt sick" - why would he not say " I disagree with the diagnosis".

Those are the things that confused me and still cause me to scratch my head when I read the posts

I would not go into court accusing doctors of lying but, through my lawyer, make a brief statement:

I brought my child to the doctor for medical care. These tests came back positive for celiac (lawyer then enters the medical records), yet I wasnt informed - I only found out after the children were removed. I was told by Dr _______ that my child had FMT and was referred. I was told by that doctor my child was not sick, and that is when CPS became involved.

So why is my family being punished when the doctors have ignored positive blood tests, diagnosed a genetic condition without genetic evidence and FMT hasnt been mentioned since. The records speak for themselves, I presented a sick child and it was the doctors who ordered blood work and referrals yet I am punished for doing what I was asked to do".

Referrals require a copy of medical records and the referral would be made for a reason like "followup care for FMT"

Where is your lawyer in all of this, a good one should be helping you organize the records, highlight crucial information etc.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

That's a good point. Finding a good lawyer isn't necessarily easy, either, though. I've met quite a few who are not what I'd call meticulous, plus I think there are a lot of unethical things that go on behind the scenes in the legal system.

[Luvs to Scrap]

Cindy, I just wanted to let you know we are still praying for your situation at our house too. I hope to read a post about everything getting resolved soon. Kendra

[Guest nini]

how many of us are literary geniuses on this board? it's a MESSAGE BOARD for cryin out loud! Most of us write "stream of conciousness" and don't pay attention to grammar and spelling, Especially not when we are stressed out and upset.

I can vouch that it's not as simple as getting a lawyer to get the child tested. He already had one positive blood test that was ignored and inflammation visible during the biopsy that was also poo pooed. My daughter's blood work was negative, yet when I put her on the gluten-free diet her symptoms miraculously went away and now I have a very healthy kid, as long as she stays away from gluten.

Cindy came to us for support because if anyone should be able to understand even a little of what she's going through, it's the celiac community, who, for the most part have also been ignored and misdiagnosed for years before we finally found our answer. Since SHE was dx'ed with Celiac and all the symptoms fit, the logical assumption is that her son has it, and why on earth the dr.s are ignoring this and punishing HER for trying to make her son well, are beyond me.