Oh Please No! Not Spinach Too? C'mon!

[srall]

So, I've been reading this forum long enough to know that an intolerance to spinach and other raw fruits and veggies are real, but now that it's striking me I'm having a really hard time. I think this is harder than gluten. When I started this whole process I was following a vegan diet and feeling morally superior (Just kidding...but I did feel good about not having to eat tasty animals). But as I had to drop wheat, dairy, soy and corn I had to move meat and eggs back into my diet. So now, as I'm trying to get healthy, I can't even rely on the enzymes and nutrients from raw fruits and vegetables? I just bought a vitamix for my lovely green drinks.

OK...enough whining. For those who also have problems in this area, is it just a matter of cooking all the vegetables? I did notice that if I have a small serving of something it doesn't really bother me. But after my experience with gluten, I'm wondering if this is a case where if your system is intolerant of something, you should cut it out, even if it's a superfood? Thoughts? Advice?

[Evangeline]

So, I've been reading this forum long enough to know that an intolerance to spinach and other raw fruits and veggies are real, but now that it's striking me I'm having a really hard time. I think this is harder than gluten. When I started this whole process I was following a vegan diet and feeling morally superior (Just kidding...but I did feel good about not having to eat tasty animals). But as I had to drop wheat, dairy, soy and corn I had to move meat and eggs back into my diet. So now, as I'm trying to get healthy, I can't even rely on the enzymes and nutrients from raw fruits and vegetables? I just bought a vitamix for my lovely green drinks.

OK...enough whining. For those who also have problems in this area, is it just a matter of cooking all the vegetables? I did notice that if I have a small serving of something it doesn't really bother me. But after my experience with gluten, I'm wondering if this is a case where if your system is intolerant of something, you should cut it out, even if it's a superfood? Thoughts? Advice?

I was a vegan before this whole thing, too. I have stopped eating all grain, legumes, seeds, and almost all greens because of reactions. Spinach causes me to fall asleep. I can eat nuts and a few other veggies. If I feel like I need extra nutrients, I eat eggs because I read that they are considered superior to meat. I have never found any specific nutrient in meat that surpasses eggs. For instance, the protein quality of eggs is 30% better than meat according to nutritiondata.com. I have also read that eggs could be considered a perfect food because they contain every nutrient. I'm telling you this info just in case you feel like you *must* eat meat to be healthy. Best of luck .

[GlutenFreeManna]

There was a recall of spinach recently due to possible Salmonella. You might want to make sure you didn't get a tainted bag...

[srall]

I can't believe I'm writing this, but I wish it were salmonella. I think I'm having a problem with raw fruits and veggies. I've been tracking this for awhile.

Evangeline, I eat eggs for breakfast every morning. That's good info. I also "need" to eat meat to keep my energy up. I only buy grass fed, free range meat. I have made my peace with meat.

So, can you eat steamed veggies? Is it just raw that is a problem? And I forgot to ask earlier...is this something I might get back in the future?

[eatmeat4good]

I'm wondering what your reaction is.

Spinach happens to be high in salicylates and some other fruits and vegetables are too.

This reaction could cause dizziness, nausea, D, anxiety/depression, headache and other symptoms associated with SA reactions.

I had to cook all vegetables really well in the beginning and still did NOT do well with starchy veggies like potato, sweet potato,or most fruits.

My diet is upside down from what it used to be. Mostly meat, chicken, fish and a few vegetables and fruits. I used to love eggs but developed intolerance to them too. Darn.

If it is a matter of not being able to digest raw vegetables, then you may find that cooking them thoroughly helps you a lot. I still have problems with salads after 7 months. But I keep trying to eat them because the are "supposed to be good for you."

That "Supposed to be good for you." category messes me up every time. I think if I listened to my body I would only be eating chicken breasts and drinking water.

Not quite ready to give in to that yet, but I have great empathy for what you are going through.

Hang in there.

[Evangeline]

I can't believe I'm writing this, but I wish it were salmonella.

LOL .

The greens that I cannot eat: I cannot eat broccoli, kale, cauliflower, mustard, bok choi, rutabega, spinach, mustard seeds, carrots, and that isn't the entire list. It doesn't matter if I steam them or not, they make me feel exhausted for 3 days.

I am trying Dr. James Osborn's grain-free diet. According to him, about 45% of Celiacs are literally gluten intolerant, not just intolerant to the gliadin in wheat, barley, rye. I have read a few online testimonials by Celiacs saying that removing all grains from their diet alleviated their sensitivities to other harmless foods. Even in the "grass-fed" eggs and meat at the store, I have found that upon interrogation, they say that the animals diet is composed of 20% corn and soy. Unless you have truly found 100% grass-fed animal products, you may be interested in looking at this site which has a link to grass-fed animals: Open Original Shared Link

Also, just in case you aren't aware: Be aware that corn is in citric acid, ascorbic acid and a billion other ingredients like iodized salt: Open Original Shared Link

[GlutenFreeManna]

I can't believe I'm writing this, but I wish it were salmonella. I think I'm having a problem with raw fruits and veggies. I've been tracking this for awhile.

Evangeline, I eat eggs for breakfast every morning. That's good info. I also "need" to eat meat to keep my energy up. I only buy grass fed, free range meat. I have made my peace with meat.

So, can you eat steamed veggies? Is it just raw that is a problem? And I forgot to ask earlier...is this something I might get back in the future?

I had trouble with raw veggies and beans when I first went gluten free. I was able to eat them more after about 6-8 months, but I still (1 yr 4 months later) don't eat large quantiities of raw veggies every day. I used to be vegetarian as well but I have found I feel better when I eat meat and it's easier to keep the anemia away. Spianch and other iron rich veggies did not do it for me as well as just eating some meat once a week. As far as veggies I do eat them every single day as long as they are stemed I'm fine. I also eat a lot of lentils and chick peas as those types of beans bother me the least.

I can understand how frustrating it is when you used ot be vegan or vegetarian. I had a friend one time that was vegan and only ate raw. When I told her about my food issues she completely rejected the idea that someone could be intolerant to raw veggies. She was very condescending as she told me I was a traitor for going back to meat and that by cooking the veggies I was losing "vital nutrients". Well guess what? She doesn't have a clue about celiac disease. What good is it to eat raw if my body is unable to process the nutrients from the food in raw form? You need to do what you need to do to be healthy. Some people are not able to eat any meat at all without feeling sick. Some people have to cook their vegetables to get any nutrients out of them. Don't let anyone make you feel bad for doing what is best for your health. After all, everyday we see advertisements toting the wonders of "whole grains" (refering specically to wheat usually) and yet we cannot eat wheat and be healthy.

[srall]

I'm wondering what your reaction is.

Spinach happens to be high in salicylates and some other fruits and vegetables are too.

This reaction could cause dizziness, nausea, D, anxiety/depression, headache and other symptoms associated with SA reactions.

I had to cook all vegetables really well in the beginning and still did NOT do well with starchy veggies like potato, sweet potato,or most fruits.

My diet is upside down from what it used to be. Mostly meat, chicken, fish and a few vegetables and fruits. I used to love eggs but developed intolerance to them too. Darn.

If it is a matter of not being able to digest raw vegetables, then you may find that cooking them thoroughly helps you a lot. I still have problems with salads after 7 months. But I keep trying to eat them because the are "supposed to be good for you."

That "Supposed to be good for you." category messes me up every time. I think if I listened to my body I would only be eating chicken breasts and drinking water.

Not quite ready to give in to that yet, but I have great empathy for what you are going through.

Hang in there.

I'm laughing right now because I'm eating chicken and rice and going through my messages. I did cook up some green beans so hopefully those won't mess with my stomach.

Yesterday I looked up a reaction to salicylates and I think that's what I'm reacting to. My reaction is exactly what you listed. Plus everything I had in my smoothie was full of them: strawberries, parsley, kale...

So I'm still wondering, if I just eat a little bit and don't feel a reaction, am I still harming my body?

[domesticactivist]

The others have made great comments. I, too, used to be vegetarian, and my ex-husband used to be vegan. When we changed our diet for our son he decided to try it, too, and he has seen big improvements in his health as well!

For good articles about health and vegetarianism I like the Open Original Shared Link

Anyway, back on topic... The diet my family is doing (GAPS Diet) is all about restoring the health of the gut. On this diet you start with only cooked vegetables, precisely because a damaged gut can't adequately process raw vegetables. (I must say, though, it's not just about eliminating foods - we added bone broths, cooked veggies, fermented foods, minerals, etc) Over time, you slowly introduce raw veggies (first by juicing them), and when you eat them, you eat them with saturated fats. My family has been on the diet for a bit over 3 months and we've just started introducing raw veggies. There is no hard and fast timeline - it's up to you to pay attention to your body's response to the diet.

I think it's likely that if you take this approach you will eventually get many foods back that have been giving you problems.

[srall]

The others have made great comments. I, too, used to be vegetarian, and my ex-husband used to be vegan. When we changed our diet for our son he decided to try it, too, and he has seen big improvements in his health as well!

For good articles about health and vegetarianism I like the Open Original Shared Link

Anyway, back on topic... The diet my family is doing (GAPS Diet) is all about restoring the health of the gut. On this diet you start with only cooked vegetables, precisely because a damaged gut can't adequately process raw vegetables. (I must say, though, it's not just about eliminating foods - we added bone broths, cooked veggies, fermented foods, minerals, etc) Over time, you slowly introduce raw veggies (first by juicing them), and when you eat them, you eat them with saturated fats. My family has been on the diet for a bit over 3 months and we've just started introducing raw veggies. There is no hard and fast timeline - it's up to you to pay attention to your body's response to the diet.

I think it's likely that if you take this approach you will eventually get many foods back that have been giving you problems.

DomesticActivist: I have to say I have loved your posts over the past couple of weeks. I especially loved the Crazy Diet blogs. They really hit home.

Thank you everyone for wonderful responses (as always). I feel like the universe has been steering me toward the SCD for awhile now. I have already tried cutting out sugar and processed even more than I already had. It's interesting that the GAPS diet has you only start with cooked veggies. Like I said before it is such a paradigm shift to think of raw fruits and veggies as "unsafe" I went through this with wheat of course, but it made more sense to me that we'd been sold a false bill of goods as far as wheat, dairy and corn goes. So...I'm getting there. I think my only grain is basmati rice anyway...just need to go all the way. I will do some more research on both the GAPS diet and the SCD. After a year of this I'm just not seeing the healing I had expected.

[eatmeat4good]

To answer your question about salicylates- you will have to determine what level of sals you can eat per day by trial and error to get a sense for your degree of sensitivity. Mine seems to change...so be prepared for that. Probably has to do with how much of Sal containing food I am eating. Here is one more thing. People who are sensitive to SA are usually always sensitive to Benzoates and Tartrazine. Benzoates are preservatives used in almost all juice and soft drinks. Tartrazine is found in food colorings.

Yesterday after months gluten free I rewarded myself with Diet Coke and M&M's. I know, I know. Withing 30 minutes I started feeling anxious uncomfortable and got hives. Wow. I really am going to have to give up M&M's. I'd rather be giving up spinach.

The reaction lasted all evening. The tartrazine is in the colored candies, and the benzoates were in the diet coke.

Dang it. I am probably gonna test it again to be sure.

There is no end to this Labyrinth.

[srall]

To answer your question about salicylates- you will have to determine what level of sals you can eat per day by trial and error to get a sense for your degree of sensitivity. Mine seems to change...so be prepared for that. Probably has to do with how much of Sal containing food I am eating. Here is one more thing. People who are sensitive to SA are usually always sensitive to Benzoates and Tartrazine. Benzoates are preservatives used in almost all juice and soft drinks. Tartrazine is found in food colorings.

Yesterday after months gluten free I rewarded myself with Diet Coke and M&M's. I know, I know. Withing 30 minutes I started feeling anxious uncomfortable and got hives. Wow. I really am going to have to give up M&M's. I'd rather be giving up spinach.

The reaction lasted all evening. The tartrazine is in the colored candies, and the benzoates were in the diet coke.

Dang it. I am probably gonna test it again to be sure.

There is no end to this Labyrinth.

O.M...G. I am not sure I'd survive M&M's and a diet coke at this point. It's been sooooooo long. But it used to be a usual meal for me.

I must say Celiac has probably saved my life with the changes I've had to make to my diet.

Hope the hives and headache go away quickly.

[Evangeline]

I read somewhere recently that several Celiacs became able desensitized to salicylates after they adhered to a strictly grain-free diet for a few months (no grains allowed in vitamins, no citric acid, no ascorbic acid, no iodized salt). I can't remember where I read it though .

[GFinDC]

Spinach is also considered a goitrogen, so maybe that will help you feel better about not eating it a lot. Soy is probably one of the worst goitrogen's.

Open Original Shared Link

Goitrogens are naturally-occurring substances that can interfere with function of the thyroid gland. Goitrogens get their name from the term "goiter," which means an enlargement of the thyroid gland. If the thyroid gland is having difficulty making thyroid hormone, it may enlarge as a way of trying to compensate for this inadequate hormone production. "Goitrogens," like circumstances that cause goiter, cause difficulty for the thyroid in making its hormone.

[T.H.]

Goitrogens are naturally-occurring substances that can interfere with function of the thyroid gland. Goitrogens get their name from the term "goiter," which means an enlargement of the thyroid gland. If the thyroid gland is having difficulty making thyroid hormone, it may enlarge as a way of trying to compensate for this inadequate hormone production. "Goitrogens," like circumstances that cause goiter, cause difficulty for the thyroid in making its hormone.

Why can nothing on the internet match, arrrrrgh!

I was just reading about natural foods that help the thyroid today, and according to a few sources, radishes have been used in Russia for a while now as an aid for both hyper- and hypo-thyroidism.

"...Raphanin, the main sulphur component in radishes, is chiefly responsible for keeping the production of thyroxine and calcitonin (a peptide hormone) in normal balance."

( Open Original Shared Link )

Supposedly, it tends to prevent the thyroid from under-producing AND from over-producing.

...but it's also listed as a goitrogen and as something to avoid if you have thyroid issues.

Sigh. Consistency on the internet would be so nice, just once for us poor folks trying to get better, eh?