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Discrimination


grodeylocks

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grodeylocks Apprentice

I worked in restaurants as a hostess, and I can tell you waitstaff really don't like it if you bring your own food. That isn't what they get paid for, they feel you are taking away their money and it makes them resent you. If you've never worked in a restaurant you don't realize this but to the staff every seat has a dollar sign attached to it and your butt in that seat is a negative. And yes some staff will punish those you are with by doing bad things to their food! Like spitting in it or dropping it on the floor. I simply would not eat, it's safer because it's not quite the insult of bringing food in. That is like slapping the waiter and the cook in the face. (to their minds)

 

I've never brought my own food to a restaurant. I've seen the behavior behind the scenes when people did! 

Don't you think people should be educated about our problems to understand this. It's not right.


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grodeylocks Apprentice

It's not discrimination if the rules apply to everyone.  If you were told you couldn't bring in your gluten-free food, but could bring in regular food, that would be discrimination. 

 

A restaurant is not required to serve you food, nor are they required to let you bring in your own food.  What if you had cockroaches or other bugs mixed in with your snacks and you contaminated their restaurant?  

 

A carnivore can't demand meat at a vegetarian restaurant, nor can a vegan demand vegetables at a salami shop. 

 

In our case I think its discrimination. Under the Americans with disabilities act.

 

Open Original Shared Link

gatita Enthusiast

From a legal point of view, this raises some interesting questions. There is no doubt there have recently been intriguing new ADA case rulings. The successful ADA lawsuit by a celiac student at Lesley University surprised a lot of us, and has led to changes in campus dining halls across the country.

 

But there is a difference. In the case of college, the student was charged for a year-round meal plan he couldn't eat, and the harm that food would cause him was clear.

 

Medically speaking, though, we don't need to eat anything during the few hours we're at a ball game. So I think the legal argument under ADA would be a tough fight, but doesn't mean it's impossible. (I notice that the mother in the article said she is not going to sue the restaurant.) Then again, I've seen restaurants closed in our town because the owner didn't make them wheelchair accessible... it's taken the legal community awhile to accept the notion of celiac disease as a disability, but the Lesly lawsuit opened that door.

 

I'm just just talking the legal aspects here, not the ethical/moral arguments.

 

 

ps. And no, I'm not a lawyer, just a reporter who's covered a lot of court trial and civil lawsuits.

IrishHeart Veteran

 

Frankly, your rights aren't being violated by being forced not to eat for the length of a baseball game.

 

Exactly!!!.

 

Not have a right to food at a baseball game? If that's the case then we shouldn't have the right to have water or bathrooms for that matter either. Why are they forced to have to provide that to everyone then?

That's a non sequitor. Your argument is not valid, sorry.

 

Gluten free food is not a necessity of life for the majority of people attending a ball game.

Bathrooms, however, are a different story.

 

I brought my own sandwich into the ball parks in Florida recently. But I have also managed to watch many games, movies, plays etc without filing my face. They just do not allow liquids to be brought inside.But, this is true ANYWHERE now: theaters, planes, etc.

 

The Americans with Disabilities Act does apply to celiacs attending college, for example--that they be provided with gluten free meals.

That's because they paid for it in advance---and because constantly eating food that was not G F would have been dangerous.

 

But no one is legally required to provide G F food for us at a ball game or a restaurant or in an airport, so you may as well get over it

now or you're going to be angry for the rest of your life and suing people left and right. And it costs a TON of money to bring about a lawsuit, so be prepared to rack up a lot of bills. :)  

 

 

I still can't believe they only let you through security at the airport with a bag of sunflower seeds. 

 

me neither.

 

 

Medically speaking, though, we don't need to eat anything during the few hours we're at a ball game. So I think the legal argument under ADA would be a tough fight, 

and a lost cause.

Jestgar Rising Star

In our case I think its discrimination. Under the Americans with disabilities act.

 

Open Original Shared Link

Only if you're required to be somewhere, or required to eat somewhere. 

 

If you have to go to a business meeting at a restaurant, your boss (not the restaurant) is required to provide you with safe food.

 

If you choose to go to a restaurant, you're on your own.  In the piece above, the kid did not have to eat there, did not even have to be there, and she brought in food from another restaurant that also has potential for cc.  I say no case.

IrishHeart Veteran

Only if you're required to be somewhere, or required to eat somewhere. 

 

If you have to go to a business meeting at a restaurant, your boss (not the restaurant) is required to provide you with safe food.

 

If you choose to go to a restaurant, you're on your own.  In the piece above, the kid did not have to eat there, did not even have to be there, and she brought in food from another restaurant that also has potential for cc.  I say no case.

 

Exactly...... what Jess just said.

grodeylocks Apprentice

Exactly!!!.

 

That's a non sequitor. Your argument is not valid, sorry.

 

Gluten free food is not a necessity of life for the majority of people attending a ball game.

Bathrooms, however, are a different story.

 

I brought my own sandwich into the ball parks in Florida recently. But I have also managed to watch many games, movies, plays etc without filing my face. They just do not allow liquids to be brought inside.But, this is true ANYWHERE now: theaters, planes, etc.

 

The Americans with Disabilities Act does apply to celiacs attending college, for example--that they be provided with gluten free meals.

That's because they paid for it in advance---and because constantly eating food that was not G F would have been dangerous.

 

But no one is legally required to provide G F food for us at a ball game or a restaurant or in an airport, so you may as well get over it

now or you're going to be angry for the rest of your life and suing people left and right. And it costs a TON of money to bring about a lawsuit, so be prepared to rack up a lot of bills. :)  

 

 

 

me neither.

and a lost cause.

I believe there may be a case here. It just reminds me of the arguments against the whole disability movement, prior to every business being forced to be retrofitted to allow the disabled access to those places. I don't believe every place has to legally provide a gluten free option, what I am saying, and what I believe is a violation of my right is to deny a person with food allergies the right to bring in their own food to an event. In a way this sort of alienates us from public events. Just imagine how many of us would be able to stay at multiple day festivals if we werent allowed to bring in our own food. Do you see the point in this argument, in a way it is a violation of our pursuit of happiness.


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kareng Grand Master

 Just imagine how many of us would be able to stay at multiple day festivals if we werent allowed to bring in our own food. Do you see the point in this argument, in a way it is a violation of our pursuit of happiness.

 

 

Originally, you were just talking about a 2-3 hours without "food".  Though I'm sure they had snacks you could have eaten & soft drinks, wine or water you could had to drink. 

 

I have been to all day events that do not allow outside food.  I have contacted them well in advance and nicely explained my problem.  I did not try to bring in foods or drinks that they sell.  Meaning, I brought a sandwich but bought my soda. 

 

Just because we have an "illness", doesn't mean the world or the government owes us.

grodeylocks Apprentice

Only if you're required to be somewhere, or required to eat somewhere. 

 

If you have to go to a business meeting at a restaurant, your boss (not the restaurant) is required to provide you with safe food.

 

If you choose to go to a restaurant, you're on your own.  In the piece above, the kid did not have to eat there, did not even have to be there, and she brought in food from another restaurant that also has potential for cc.  I say no cas

So when does it become discrimination do you believe. By the way my post isn't just about this one incident I had but a recognization of discrimination against people with food allergies in all shapes and forms such as demeaning portrayals of celiacs. What I am saying is to start speaking up and speaking out against this. I'm sure all of us experience this type of treatment often and it isn't ok. So I guess I am calling on all of you guys to start making a stand and it starts with the little things.

IrishHeart Veteran

. Do you see the point in this argument, in a way it is a violation of our pursuit of happiness.

 

No, sorry kiddo, I just do not.

 

I am seeing a ball game, a play, a movie...I am still happy. 

I am not "alienated " in any way because I have celiac.

 

And this is not at all the same as accommodating  for a wheelchair. We have legs.

 

And celiac is not a "food allergy" so, you cannot use that as your basis. 

 

I think you need to stop viewing celiac as a disability and an excuse to get favorable attention.

IMHO

IrishHeart Veteran

. I'm sure all of us experience this type of treatment often 

 

 

Nope,  I really don't..... sorry!

For example, I just went to a wedding and they accommodated me and the other GeeFreers so well, I never gave my "status" as a celiac a single thought. Not once. (I had crackers and PB in my car in case I needed it, but I always do that)

 

I ate and drank and had a blast.

 

You really need to get over the thought that you are "owed something" hon. Just IMHO

grodeylocks Apprentice

No, sorry kiddo, I just do not.

 

I am seeing a ball game, a play, a movie...I am still happy. 

I am not "alienated " in any way because I have celiac.

 

And this is not at all the same as accommodating  for a wheelchair. We have legs.

 

And celiac is not a "food allergy" so, you cannot use that as your basis. 

 

I think you need to stop viewing celiac as a disability and an excuse to get favorable attention.

IMHO

Last time I checked celiac disease was approved as a disability. Yes I know its an autoimmune disorder. Who's rights am I violating by preparing and taking my own food with me. The answer is nobody's!

Adalaide Mentor
Medically speaking, though, we don't need to eat anything during the few hours we're at a ball game. So I think the legal argument under ADA would be a tough fight, but doesn't mean it's impossible.

 

The only exception I can think of and which I have never seen disputed by anyone about someone carrying food with them somewhere is when a diabetic carries a single or double high carb snack with them somewhere as an emergency food. Since these snacks are usually carried with their testing supplies (at least in my experience) there is no question about what the snack is for or that the person truly has a medical need that can't be denied. The reason that they would need this emergency supply even though food is sold is because if they get low blood sugar they would quite possibly not be able to get to a vendor and obtain food before becoming disoriented or losing consciousness.

 

Other than that specific need, I can think of no other in which during a several hour period there is any circumstance under which being denied food is a violation of anyone's rights whatsoever.

 

When does it become discrimination for us? When we are forced to be somewhere for a period long enough to miss a meal. Not like, oh the ball game is when I usually have supper... I mean seriously many hours. Or, when we are forced to be in a position where we are paying for food, such as the college student who was paying for a meal plan but was unable to obtain safe food. Other situations may include away from home work training we could be forced to attend where everyone's meals are provided but they refuse to provide us with something different or safe. (Of course if I had a brand new job, and I am looking at this being a distinct possibility in the next month with the away from home training for a few days, I would scope out the area before hand, pack food and buy my own things. I wouldn't piss off a new employer or do anything to seem "needy" to them.)

 

Look, I'm sorry you feel this way but I think it is the way you present yourself. You seem to thing you are entitled to something. When I make requests at restaurants, whether to bring my own food or be served safely I have good experiences because of how I approach the people I speak with. I have the same response with events and places that don't generally allow outside food. I think you just need to approach the topic differently.

grodeylocks Apprentice

Nope,  I really don't..... sorry!

For example, I just went to a wedding and they accommodated me and the other GeeFreers so well, I never gave my "status" as a celiac a single thought. Not once. (I had crackers and PB in my car in case I needed it, but I always do that)

 

I ate and drank and had a blast.

 

You really need to get over the thought that you are "owed something" hon. Just IMHO

Not saying I'm owed anything, just want to be treated equal. Maybe you have never experienced discrimination first hand for having an illness, but it does exist and it isn't right and I am not the type of person that will sit down and shut up about it.

grodeylocks Apprentice

Nope,  I really don't..... sorry!

For example, I just went to a wedding and they accommodated me and the other GeeFreers so well, I never gave my "status" as a celiac a single thought. Not once. (I had crackers and PB in my car in case I needed it, but I always do that)

 

I ate and drank and had a blast.

 

You really need to get over the thought that you are "owed something" hon. Just IMHO

This article is another example Open Original Shared Link

IrishHeart Veteran

Maybe if you had long undiagnosed celiac and it created OTHER health conditions, illnesses and diseases causing permanent damage, you MIGHT be able to prove a disability under the disabiilites act. Good luck with that.

I think you just have an ax to grind at this point.

 

Good luck.

 

"Evaluating Your Residual Functional Capacity

If your symptoms of celiac disease are not severe enough to equal one of the disability listings above, then the next step is for the SSA to determine your residual functional capacity (RFC). Your RFC describes the most amount of work that you can perform, and is labeled as sedentary, light, medium, or heavy work. To determine your RFC, the SSA will evaluate your ability to perform work tasks such as sitting, standing, walking, interacting with coworkers and supervisors, and following simple instructions.

If Open Original Shared Link (for instance, an inability to sit for six hours per day and stand/walk for two hours per day), you should be found disabled.

If you are over age 50, you could be found disabled even if you can perform sedentary or light work, if your education and prior job skills didn't prepare you to do sedentary or light work. 

It would be helpful for your doctor to write out an opinion stating any limitations that you have as a result of your celiac disease. If you need to take frequent rest room breaks throughout the day, your RFC should include that limitation. In addition, if you suffer from any type of abdominal pain that could affect your ability to concentrate on tasks, this should be in your RFC. If you are unable to work on a regular basis, or you would miss several days of work per month as a result of your disorder, then this should be in your RFC, and the SSA could find you disabled."

 

Open Original Shared Link

IrishHeart Veteran

This article is another example Open Original Shared Link

that article is a joke and I do not consider it valid or relevant.

Jestgar Rising Star

Not saying I'm owed anything, just want to be treated equal. Maybe you have never experienced discrimination first hand for having an illness, but it does exist and it isn't right and I am not the type of person that will sit down and shut up about it.

So the place didn't have potato chips?  Peanuts?  Whole fruit?  Soda?  Water?  Orange juice?

 

It's discrimination when you are denied something available to others, not when you're denied what you want.

grodeylocks Apprentice

Maybe if you had long undiagnosed celiac and it created OTHER health conditions, illnesses and diseases causing permanent damage, you MIGHT be able to prove a disability under the disabiilites act. Good luck with that.

I think you just have an ax to grind at this point.

 

Good luck.

 

"Evaluating Your Residual Functional Capacity

If your symptoms of celiac disease are not severe enough to equal one of the disability listings above, then the next step is for the SSA to determine your residual functional capacity (RFC). Your RFC describes the most amount of work that you can perform, and is labeled as sedentary, light, medium, or heavy work. To determine your RFC, the SSA will evaluate your ability to perform work tasks such as sitting, standing, walking, interacting with coworkers and supervisors, and following simple instructions.

If Open Original Shared Link (for instance, an inability to sit for six hours per day and stand/walk for two hours per day), you should be found disabled.

If you are over age 50, you could be found disabled even if you can perform sedentary or light work, if your education and prior job skills didn't prepare you to do sedentary or light work. 

It would be helpful for your doctor to write out an opinion stating any limitations that you have as a result of your celiac disease. If you need to take frequent rest room breaks throughout the day, your RFC should include that limitation. In addition, if you suffer from any type of abdominal pain that could affect your ability to concentrate on tasks, this should be in your RFC. If you are unable to work on a regular basis, or you would miss several days of work per month as a result of your disorder, then this should be in your RFC, and the SSA could find you disabled."

 

Open Original Shared Link

celiac is considered an "invisible disability" by the ADA

grodeylocks Apprentice

Its another case of us being discriminated against. Why are you telling me not to stand up for celiacs?

 

that article is a joke and I do not consider it valid or relevant.

IrishHeart Veteran

 

It's discrimination when you are denied something available to others, not when you're denied what you want.

 

and on that intelligent note, (and thank you, Jess :) )...I'm out... . I tried my best. 

grodeylocks Apprentice

The point of this topic was to point out that discrimination exists towards celiacs and that it is our duty to stand up and protect other celiacs from this type of thing. The whole stadium thing was just one incident to which I felt personally discriminated against. You can agree with me or disagree whether or not that was so, however you can't deny that many people have view us with certain stereotypes which I believe is expressed in cases such as that disney channel portrayal of a child with celiac disease.

 

I am just calling on all of you to confront this type of behavior whenever we encounter it, and to support your fellow celiac in these cases.

notme Experienced

In our case I think its discrimination. Under the Americans with disabilities act.

 

Open Original Shared Link

i bet if she brought a sandwich from home, and spoken with the manager on arrival, she would not have had a problem.  allowing another brand is probably against their company policy - and whomever allowed it to happen in that store would have worried about losing their job.   who knows...  

 

once i did get stuck at the airport with just a turkey samwich to last me a day and a half - got a turkey samwich through security, got pretty much anything i ever tried to get through security, food-wise, (they make you get rid of your open drinks, though, but you can get juice, water, etc once you get inside) i even got stuff through that i forgot i had and was surprised they let me by :)  

 

maybe it's the winking :rolleyes:  ;););) cheaper than a lawsuit!! 

 

side note:  ick, mcdonalds burger lolz 

notme Experienced

The point of this topic was to point out that discrimination exists towards celiacs and that it is our duty to stand up and protect other celiacs from this type of thing. The whole stadium thing was just one incident to which I felt personally discriminated against. You can agree with me or disagree whether or not that was so, however you can't deny that many people have view us with certain stereotypes which I believe is expressed in cases such as that disney channel portrayal of a child with celiac disease.

 

I am just calling on all of you to confront this type of behavior whenever we encounter it, and to support your fellow celiac in these cases.

absolutely!  and this ^ disney topic has already been heartily discussed (i even think there was a petition involved)  and from what i understand, disney has pulled this episode as a result.  

grodeylocks Apprentice

Makes me wonder about Celiacs who are homeless. What about soup kitchens. God what a horrible situation. I'm sure there are some out there now that are forced to just gluten themselves.

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The new they bought me pan was even carried home in a shopping bag with gluten bread in it, which triggered my OCD. It also has a rubber handle and I’m scared it might still hold onto gluten. Even if it’s washed well, it’s stored next to other pans that were used for gluten food/bread. Our kitchen table is used for eating gluten bread daily. My mom wipes it but not with soap. I’m scared tiny particles remain. If she made gluten-free bread dough on a board at the table, I’d still worry about cross contmaination contamination even with something under the dough and on the table as at one point the dough would probably touch the table. So I stopped eating anything she makes.   I know OCD is making it worse, but I can’t tell how much of my fear is real and how much is anxiety. Examples: • I wash my hands 20–30 times a day — before eating, after touching anything at home or outside, after using my phone/laptop. • I don’t let others touch my phone, and I’m scared to use my laptop because friends at school or my brother (who eat gluten) have touched it. And it annoys me a lot when others touch my stuff and feels like it got contaminated and is unsafe instantly. • I stopped eating while using my phone or laptop, afraid of invisible gluten being on them. • I wash my hands after opening food packaging (since it was on store cashier belts where gluten food is placed). • I avoid sitting anywhere except my bed or one clean chair. • I won’t shake hands with anyone or walk past people eating gluten. • At school, when switching classes, I wash my hands before getting out my laptop, again before opening it, etc. • I open door knobs with my elbows instead my hands   Job Concerns (Powder Coating, Sandblasting, Etc.) I’m working a temporary job right now that involves: • Powder coating • Sandblasting • Wet spray painting • Anodizing There’s also a laboratory. I don’t need this job, and my OCD makes me believe that dust or air particles there might contain gluten somehow. Should I quit?   Doctors Haven’t Helped My family doctor told me: “Asymptomatic celiac isn’t serious, if you have no symptoms, your intestines won’t get damaged, so you don’t need a gluten-free diet.” I knew that was wrong, but he wasn’t open to listening. I just nodded and didn‘t argue. My gastroenterologist (who’s also a dietitian) said: „If your antibodies are negative, there’s no damage. It might even be okay to try small amounts of gluten later if antibodies stay negative.“ Also said, pepper that says “may contain gluten” is fine if it only contains pepper. She was more informed than my family doctor but didn’t seem to fully understand celiac either.   Questions I Need Help With 1. Is it realistically safe to eat food my mom cooks, if we get separate pans/ and boards even if gluten is still used in the same kitchen? There will always be low risk of cc chances like that she will still touch stuff that was touched by her and my siblings after they ate gluten. And as there are gluten eaters in the house and she also prepares and eats gluten. So would opening the fridge then getting the food and touching the food be okay? So basically what i am doing, washing my hands multiple times while preparing food, she would only wash it once before, then touch anything else (for example water tap or handles) that were touched with gluteny hands, then also touch the food. I dont know if I ever could feel safe, I could try telling her how important cc really is. And I trust her so she wouldnt lie to me then be careless about cc, but idk how safe it really can be if she and everyone else keeps eating gluten and touching stuff in the house after eating. 2. Do I need to worry about touching doorknobs, fridge handles, light switches, etc. that family members touched after eating gluten? What about public places like bus handles or school desks? Or like if i went to the gym, I would be touching stuff all the time, so there will be small amounts of gluten and those would get transferred on my phone if I touch my phone while in the gym. But I want to knos if it would be enough to do damage. 3. Is an endoscopy (without biopsy) enough to tell if my intestines are healed? I’d pay privately if it could help and if i dont get a refferal. Or do i need a biopsy? 4. Could my job (powder coating, sandblasting, etc.) expose me to gluten or damage my intestines through air/dust? 5. Do I need certified gluten-free toothpaste, hand soap, shampoo, or moisturizer? (For example: Vaseline and Colgate don’t contain gluten ingredients but say they can’t guarantee it’s gluten-free.) 6. Is spices like pepper with “may contain traces of gluten” safe if no gluten ingredients are listed? Or does everything need to be labeled gluten-free?  7. Is continuing to only eat my own food the better choice, or could I eventually go back to eating what my mom cooks if she’s careful? 8. is cutlery from dishwasher safe if there are stains? Stuff like knives is used for cutting gluten bread or fork for noodles etc. I often see stains which i dont know if its gluten or something else but our dish washer doesnt seem to make it completely clean. 9. I wash my hands multiple times while preparing food. Do i need to do the same when touching my phone. Like if i touch the fridge handle, I wash my hands then touch the phone. I dont eat while using my phone but i leave it on my bed and pillow and my face could come in contact with where it was.  10. Do i need to clean my phone or laptop if theyve been used by people who eat gluten? Even if no crumbs fall onto my keybaord, i mean because of invisible gluten on their fingers. 11. Does medication/supplements have to be strictly glutenfree? One company said they couldn‘t guarantee if their probiotics don’t contain traces of gluten.  12. I had bought supplements in the past, some of them say glutenfree and some of them dont(like the brand „NOW“ from iherb). I bought them and used them when i wasnt washing my hands so often, are they still safe? As I touched and opened them after touching door knobs, water taps etc. It was like a year ago when i bought those and even though i was eating gluten-free, I never worried about what i touch etc. I know this post is long. I’m just extremely overwhelmed. I’m trying to protect myself from long-term health damage, but the OCD is destroying my quality of life, and I honestly don’t know what’s a reasonable level of caution anymore. Thanks for reading.
    • lmemsm
      I've been making a lot of black bean brownies lately because it's one of the few gluten free dessert recipes that actually tastes palatable.  I've also seen chocolate cake recipes with black beans.  Someone mentioned a cookie recipe using lentils in place of flour.  Just wondering if anyone's run across any tried and true recipes using beans, lentils or peas for desserts?  I've seen a lot of recipes for garbanzo flour but I'm allergic to garbanzo beans/chickpeas.  Was wondering if adzuki or pinto beans might be useful in replacing some or all of the flour in baking.  Since gluten free flours can be crumbly was hoping the beans might help produce a better, less crumbly consistency.  Any recommendations for recipes?  Thanks.
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