Criticizing Ideas And Not People

[FaithInScienceToo]

Hello.

Today, I learned some REALLY important things about being on a web support group, and I wanted to share them here:

One thing I came to understand is that no matter how defensive people may get, it is still ok to criticize their ideas...but, it is NEVER ok to criticize a person.

I also learned that when someone criticizes me (and/or those who believe as I do)versus my ideas, then that is 'their problem.'

I am thrilled to have learned these things today.

"Thank you" to those who taught me.

That's all I wanted to share.

Best wishes to everyone here,

Gina

[bluelotus]

Hello.

Today, I learned some REALLY important things about being on a web support group, and I wanted to share them here:

One thing I came to understand is that no matter how defensive people may get, it is still ok to criticize their ideas...but, it is NEVER ok to criticize a person.

I also learned that when someone criticizes me (and/or those who believe as I do)versus my ideas, then that is 'their problem.'

I am thrilled to have learned these things today.

"Thank you" to those who taught me.

That's all I wanted to share.

Best wishes to everyone here,

Gina

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know of the argument you are refering to and have refrained from reading it so that I would not get pulled in. But what you said above couldn't be better said. I'm with you all the way!

[psawyer]

I agree completely. I have been following the thread that this alludes to, and some people crossed the line.

Ideas are subject to debate, and criticism. People who hold those ideas deserve our respect, even if we disagree with them. Name calling and personal attacks are not called for, and not something I expect on this usually polite board.

Enough said.

[tarnalberry]

I'd like to point out that, of the message boards I've been on, even though this one gets some heated debates sometimes, we seem to have a fairly even keel group. There's at least two message boards I've left, because I just got tired of a fairly aggressive woman calling me all sorts of names, repeatedly. And while I'll put up with a fair amount, it was too much. And I miss the help I was able to get and give. So, thanks for not being too crazy guys! :-)

[jenvan]

dang Tiffany--calling you names? why can't all people just have good basic social and conflict skills? too much to ask i guess! overall, i am also pretty pleased with how people respond here. and the point of this board, at least in my mind, is to be helping others...not pushing any other sort of agenda. good thoughts....

[VydorScope]

Over they years, I found the secret to message board surival is learning when to not reply, not read, and esply when to walk away from a thread. There are threads here I have plain skipped (Consiparcy theroy one, US Ecomony one, for 2 easy examples) and threads that I got in a debate in and stop reading cause I felt it was turning in to an arugement and not helpfull.

Message boards grant a false sense of anominity, and take the "personal face to face" factor out of it. You can not see how your commnets effect ppl, and this tends to make ppl forget they are talking to ppl, real ppl with real feelings.

I know one board that I never visit any more that I got draw in to fight all the time, litter spent HOURS every day typing up replies in fights over there, I evnetaully realized how far drawn in I gott, and stop visiting the board completely to break the cycle. Since then I have been much more careful, but the competive fast re-acting implusive side of me leaks out form time to time LOL.

[FaithInScienceToo]

Nice to hear that others have come to similar conclusions in their web-experiences, and have even learned when to walk away...

If I could go back and 'do it over' now, the ganging up nonsense that went on (a very immature version of a popularity contest), the rude comments directed at anyone not believing in the paranoid conspiracy theory, and the like would roll off my back...and I would have focused ONLY on 'exposing' Kevin Trudeau, and NOT on trying to change anyone's opinions of him.

This board does seem quite civil, in general, as pointed out...and it seems to have many well-educated people with decent manners. We are lucky.

Thanks for the replies.

Gina

[darlindeb25]

Well Gina---I have known Kaiti for a long time and we have been friends since then. She is a very smart lady, she knows her stuff and is always ready to help another out. I ask her questions all the time and she always finds an answer for me. Stops what she is doing and looks it up for me.

I read this thread and she didnt ever attack you. She didnt call you names, nothing. You on the other hand have been extremely rude to her. She has an opinion about something that you dont agree with, that's fine. She states her feelings and you state yours, BUT, you didnt have to point your finger at her and say nasty things.

There is a lot of good information in this forum. I am a member of several other boards and I dont find this kind of bickering on them. Just state your opinion and leave it at that--let others decide how they feel.

Deb

[VegasCeliacBuckeye]

I thought it was a spirited debate!! (Perhaps that is the lawyer coming out

Let's all just make sure we don't cast "the next stone" from our desks! That includes myself and the rest of the peanut gallery!!

E-mails and message boards can be a bit of a paradox!! It is difficult to understand emotion, tone or even sarcasm on these things!

[Rachel--24]

Well Gina---I have known Kaiti for a long time and we have been friends since then.  She is a very smart lady, she knows her stuff and is always ready to help another out.  I ask her questions all the time and she always finds an answer for me.  Stops what she is doing and looks it up for me.

I read this thread and she didnt ever attack you.  She didnt call you names, nothing.  You on the other hand have been extremely rude to her.  She has an opinion about something that you dont agree with, that's fine.  She states her feelings and you state yours, BUT, you didnt have to point your finger at her and say nasty things.

There is a lot of good information in this forum.  I am a member of several other boards and I dont find this kind of bickering on them.  Just state your opinion and leave it at that--let others decide how they feel.

Deb

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't going to get involved in this but I do agree with what Deb has said. I read everything that was posted and I did not see anything that Kaiti wrote as being rude nor did I feel that Gina was being personally attacked. In my opinion it was the other way around. Now...I don't know Kaiti personally and have no reason to "defend" her...I'm just stating the obvious. I've never seen her be anything but polite, helpful and caring towards the members of this board.

[FaithInScienceToo]

Deb,

I will have to respectfully disagree with you about whether or not others said anything inappropriate in their posts. AND, I never said anyone 'called me names' - where'd that come from, Deb?

Anyway, glad that you have made good friends via the Net.

It can be a friendly place, especially when people learn how to be polite -

I would like to see everyone learn how to be more polite.

That was precisely what ths post was about - how to be polite :-)

Hoping that we ALL can learn how to do that,

Gina

[FaithInScienceToo]

Rachael,

My perceptions of what occured in the thread are my own - I felt that a number of people behaved improperly, including myself.

The improper behavior of others, in my opinion, included 'ganging up behavior' - which continues here...

My problem with Kaiti centered around her putting down the intelligence of anyone who believes the negative reviews about Kevin Trudeau - that, I saw as insulting and defensive. Yet, these are ONLY my perceptions...I have a right to them, and I have a right to now say that I believe those behaviors are NOT appropriate here, on a support forum...but I was wrong in taking ANYTHING Kaiti had to say 'personally.'

I would very much like to be sure that everyone knows that I never said, nor thought, I was blameless in the thread in question, I apologized for not having expressed appreciation for Kaiti's obvious desire to assist others in sharing what she believed/believes still to be a great book. I apologized, and I learned something - to focus on ideas...to criticize ideas.

Anyway...I do hope that the others involved will learn their lessons, too.

If no one else learns anthing but me, that's fine - perhaps it is only me who needs to learn something from it -

Best wishes,

Gina

[Rusla]

I have been on message boards a long time. Nothing compares to the unbelievable things that happen on religious or writer's message boards. That is where some of the most assinine and hideous names and accusations abound. Why this happens on boards is the same reason it happens person to person. It is simple personality conflicts that cause this and s some peoples egos.

The other things that happen are the things you never see. That is what is going on in that persons life at the time. Unfortunately like when you have a bad day at work, you may not berealizing that you take it out on your family. The same thing happens on message boards, a bad day, not feeling well and all it takes is one word to set someone off.

Because I have over 17 years with these things most of the time i prefer to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to use an old cliche. If I say something I try to state my point and leave it there. However; yes, I have even been sucked into a tiff on- line and it sure didn't make me feel any better in the end, just the opposite.

Debating a topic is great and stating view points is great but unfortunately sometimes someone loses control and someone feels hurt.

This is just my two cents worth.

[darlindeb25]

Gina--Several felt there was name calling going on--read the posts. You may not have said a specific word directed at her, but the words were there and you meant them to be cruel and hurtful. Kaiti didnt "put down the intelligence of anyone who believes the negative reviews about Kevin Trudeau,"--it was you putting down Kaiti for believing as she does. You were very unfair to a lady we all very much appreciate, at least a very good share of us do anyways, I cant speak for others. From now on just voice the opinion and dont attack the individual, please!

Deb

[Guest nini]

I don't understand the "ganging up on" and "popularity contest" comments. My comments on that thread were because I felt that my chosen career was being maligned and I strongly disagreed with the comments to that regard.

I'm glad you feel that you've learned something from this experience. I think most of us here just want to be helpful.

[Guest DanceswithWolves]

Did I miss something?

[swittenauer]

I say let the past stay in the past & move on & lets just keep helping each other understand & learn about celiac & share our experiences.

[Jnkmnky]

Gina--Several felt there was name calling going on--read the posts.  You may not have said a specific word directed at her, but the words were there and you meant them to be cruel and hurtful.   Kaiti didnt "put down the intelligence of anyone who believes the negative reviews about Kevin Trudeau,"--it was you putting down Kaiti for believing as she does.  You were very unfair to a lady we all very much appreciate, at least a very good share of us do anyways, I cant speak for others.  From now on just voice the opinion and dont attack the individual, please!

Deb

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Deb is right on. And I would fall more in the Keven T is a bit of a scam artist camp, but never thought Kaiti was a dope for liking the book or had poor judgement for recommending the book. Gina, your dislike of the material wasn't ganged up on.... Your relentless, passive aggressive, put-downs of anyone who would be 'stupid enough' to like the Keven T book are what set you in opposition to other posters....even the posters who don't think the book is totally on the level.

[VydorScope]

This is fast becoming a good exmaple of a thread to walk away from for me. The anger is building.

[FaithInScienceToo]

Yes. Walking away is a good idea.