To posterboy: is the niacin challenge safe?

[Kylebailey1994]

I bought niacinamide with 509 mg to each capsule. If im taking that 3 x everyday, how dangerous is that to the liver? I know you probably believe its safe, just would like to hear why. Thank you.

[kareng]

48 minutes ago, Kylebailey1994 said:

I bought niacinamide with 509 mg to each capsule. If im taking that 3 x everyday, how dangerous is that to the liver? I know you probably believe its safe, just would like to hear why. Thank you.

Perhaps that is a question for an actual medical professional/ doctor?  

[ravenwoodglass]

If you are taking that  much you are overdosing yourself. Did your doctor tell you to take it at that level? If not stop and just take the recommended dosage. Overdosing can cause liver damage and even strokes.

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[Ennis-TX]

9 hours ago, Kylebailey1994 said:

I bought niacinamide with 509 mg to each capsule. If im taking that 3 x everyday, how dangerous is that to the liver? I know you probably believe its safe, just would like to hear why. Thank you.

Hoping that is a typo.
"509mg" or do you mean 509% DV (Daily Value)  20mg is the DV for Niacin. Do note DV is the minimum you should be having each day but still. Most energy drinks are like 40-120mg so 200-600% the DV a serving. I myself take a mild blend with 40mg a dose 3 times a day and I take 1-2tbsp of nutritional yeast that has some, then the daily bit from fortified nut milks, and the stuff in other foods.

At the doses your saying you should be getting some burping issues, headaches, nausea, dizziness, or feelings of a panic attack from the high doses poisoning you. Stop taking such high doses multiple times a day. REALLY check with a doctor or a nutritionist on this. IF ANYTHING cut down extremely. I would personally take those capsules open them up and divide each one into 3 separate doses to prevent spikes.

UPDATE Further reading puts the RDA (Recommended Daily/Dietary Allowance) of Niacin at 16mg a day for adult males. DO NOTE  all the research I found was from 1956-1980. I think it is a bit outdated.

[Kylebailey1994]

Yes my niacinamide is from nutricost with 2500 daily value. I know it may seem like a challenge to see if you die, but a user on here has done a lot of research and believes celiac to be linked to pellagra which is a physical need for vitamin b3 and in turn causes low stomach acid. Really hoping he can come here to add some things.

[cyclinglady]

32 minutes ago, Kylebailey1994 said:

Yes my niacinamide is from nutricost with 2500 daily value. I know it may seem like a challenge to see if you die, but a user on here has done a lot of research and believes celiac to be linked to pellagra which is a physical need for vitamin b3 and in turn causes low stomach acid. Really hoping he can come here to add some things.

Like me, Posterboy and I enjoy researching health topics.  Our acquired knowledge does not qualify us to issue medical advice.  In fact, it is against the law to issue medical advice without a license.  

We are allowed to share how we manage our celiac disease or gluten intolerance and offer support on this forum.

Pellegra is no longer an issue in the U.S.   It historically occurred in the South (think the depression years) where poor farmers ate only corn (that is pretty much all they ate to live).  It is possible to develop it today if you were an heavy alcoholic, AIDS, or had an eating disorder or illness that prevents you from eating a decent diet.  It is RARE, RARE, RARE in developed countries.    Only a few cases have been published depicting one or two patients.  

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Talk to your doctor, please.  ?

Edited October 1, 2018 by cyclinglady

[Posterboy]

Kylebailey1994,

I don't have time for a very detailed answer tonight or really the next few nights and probably the next few weeks.

It takes so long to write these responses (I hope it helps someone else) that it sometimes interferes with other things I am trying to accomplish in life.  (and you will see this is not the shortest response either)  So be sure to take time and read the links when you get a chance I think they will answer  most of your questions.

So I will just say read what I wrote in my posterboy blog posts that answer these questions or at least try too the best  a layman can.

https://www.celiac.com/blogs/blog/1109-posterboys-blog/

I do not have medical training and this is not medical advice . .. just information/research that lead me to believe low stomach being misdiagnosed could answer more questions than it brings up when you are willing to keep asking one more question?

As to cyclinglady's point of it (Pellagra) being rare today that is true to  a point.

"It is possible to develop it today if you were an heavy alcoholic, AIDS, or had an eating disorder or illness that prevents you from eating a decent diet.  It is RARE, RARE, RARE in developed countries.    Only a few cases have been published depicting one or two patients."  

It is rarely diagnosed and for good reason.  Pellagra is where Celiac was 20 years ago.

Here is an article about their co-morbidity in the same person(s) of usually the homeless or alcoholic etc.

https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/journal-of-gluten-sensitivity/journal-of-gluten-sensitivity-winter-2017-issue/a-differential-diagnosis-how-pellagra-can-be-confused-with-celiac-disease-r3989/

Here is some research that explains the good summary cyclinglady gives as to why it is rarely diagnosed except in the homeless.

Newer research 10 years are less is slow to be incorporated into clinical practice. . . and for good reason.  Do no harm right?

See this research on the Kynurenine Pathway and I will quote some of their points.

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It takes two things to happen for Pellagra to break out and not just GI problems.

They summarize it well as cyclinglady noted.

quoting

"Deficiencies in both tryptophan and nicotinamide (Niacin(amide) produce symptoms of pellagra and inadequate supplies of tryptophan can make the patient vulnerable to the development of PEM. Its levels are reduced because of undernutrition,^{Open Original Shared Link} malabsorption,^{Open Original Shared Link,Open Original Shared Link} or any significant illness or injury which upregulates KP catabolism.^{Open Original Shared Link}

Symptoms of pellagra or nicotinamide deficiency range from mild oral gum changes to severe weakness, paresthesias, dysphagia, glossitis, various mucosal and skin changes, and mental disturbances."

only when have low protein sources in their diets like an alcoholic (in the western world) do go onto be diagnosed as having pellagra.

quoting part of their paragraph on Protein energy malnutrition.

Protein energy malnutrition (PEM)

"PEM is due primarily to an inadequate intake of essential proteins or to the ingestion of poor quality protein foods. Poverty, famines, dietary ignorance, alcoholism, and mental illness contribute to this etiological category.17,34 Hypermetabolic response to severe acute or chronic illnesses and trauma can produce bodily protein substrate deficiencies.17,40 These inflammatory conditions include infections (eg, HIV-AIDS), neoplasms, chronic renal failure, and burns in which secondary PEM can occur."

It (tryptophan metabolism) plays a role in CFS syndrome because it break the krebs cycle indirectly and the Kynurenine Pathway directly which feeds the Krebs cycle think photosynthesis in plants it is equivalent to that in animals.

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entitled "A Brief Historic Overview of Clinical Disorders Associated with Tryptophan: The Relevance to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) and Fibromyalgia (FM)"

remember this newer research is only 5 to 10 years old and has not been incorporated into medical practice yet.

Here is a good overview on how tryptophan metabolism (or lack there of really) can effect people with IBS.

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entitled "Tryptophan: ‘essential’ for the pathogenesis of irritable bowel syndrome?"

again this is newer research less than 5 years old.

It takes a generation or approximately 17 years on average for new research to reach clinical practice.

this research in abstract form summarizes well what disease states occur when the kynureine pathway breaks down.

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entitled "Kynurenine pathway metabolites in humans: disease and healthy States"

quoting you will see a very similar list to what cyclinglady noted.

"The kynurenine pathway has been demonstrated to be involved in many diseases and disorders, including Alzheimer's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Huntington's disease, AIDS dementia complex, malaria, cancer, depression and schizophrenia, where imbalances in tryptophan and kynurenines have been found."

And explains why stress can negatively (or at least too much of it) for those who have a genetic tendency to poorly handle stress makes us sicker than most.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.  It will just take another dozen years or so for this to become medical advice and some people can't wait that long.

I just found the research myself in the last few months as to the connection of why it is happening.  I have known for a while what was  happening (low stomach acid being misdiagnosed in IMHO) but not why until the last few months. 

Or at least it makes sense to me based on the earlier reported prousky research entitled "Is Vitamin B3 Dependency a Causal Factor in the Development of Hypochlorhydria and Achlorhydria?"

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This research is 15+ years old I am just trying to raise people's awareness that cant' wait another 15 or 20 years for this to become medical practice!

Again this is  not medical advice but I hope it is helpful.

As always “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” 2 Timothy 2:7   this included.

Posterboy by the grace of God,