Two Different Questions

[jennyj]

I have two unrelated questions that someone may be able to help me with. The first is, is there reasons besides blood in the stool to cause black stools? Second, does anyone else have really weird dreams at times that have nothing to do with anything? Please help if you can.

[penguin]

Some medicines, like pepto bismol, can cause black stools.

[RiceGuy]

Well, for the stools, I believe they will be darker than normal if your intestines aren't moving things along properly.

The dreams may actually be related to intestinal issues though. There have been a number of times when I'd sleep quite poorly and have disconnected, incoherent dreams if I try to sleep with too much food in my stomach, or when some food that doesn't agree with me is making its way through.

Hope that helps you.

[L.A.]

Jennyj: Are you taking iron supplements? This would cause your stool to be black...L.A.

[jennyj]

I do not take any iron supplements. I did do an iron infusion in April. The only meds I take is Tylenol or Tylenol PM (which I haven't taken for weeks). I have been hospitalized twice because of internal bleeding and extremely low hemoglobin which started with the black stools. I didn't want to seem paranoid and call the doc when it could be from other causes. Thanks for all the answers and support.

[RiceGuy]

I have been hospitalized twice because of internal bleeding and extremely low hemoglobin which started with the black stools. I didn't want to seem paranoid and call the doc when it could be from other causes.

Yikes! That to me does sound serious, and I'd say you need to figure this one out fast. I don't know what blood disorders could do this sort of thing, but I'd consider that and maybe something bone marrow related. Don't want to scare you, but really it does sound serious to me. I don't know if your system might be clearing out bad marrow and replacing it with good stuff, but if I'm hoping for that to be the case.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

My daughter had black, tarry stools, and I called the pediatrician in a panic. He calmly asked if she'd been eating blueberries. She had--lots and lots of blueberries! Turns out, she gets black., tarry stools every time she has a bowl of blueberries.

Of course, this does not mean that you DON'T have a problem. Only you and your doctor can figure it out.

[Katie O'Rourke]

hiya. it may be because you are not absorbing the iron in your diet, and it is being passed otu again. that is why it is black if teher is blood teher - because of the iron in your blood. that is also why if you take iron supplements, wheteher in tablet forms or another they turn black, as there is always too much for your body to absorb. however, whether it is blood or iron being passed is impossible to know without consulting you doctor, so thats what i would do. dont want to have low iron levels again - which they may be, wheteher youre malabsorbing iron or passing blood....

hope things go ok anyway, take care

[ravenwoodglass]

I do not take any iron supplements. I did do an iron infusion in April. The only meds I take is Tylenol or Tylenol PM (which I haven't taken for weeks). I have been hospitalized twice because of internal bleeding and extremely low hemoglobin which started with the black stools. I didn't want to seem paranoid and call the doc when it could be from other causes. Thanks for all the answers and support.

With this history you need to make an appointment with your doctor. Internal bleeding would cause the low hemoglobin. You have clearly had some stomach or intestinal bleeding before and should check this out if you can not identify and innocent reason very soon.

[jennyj]

Thanks again. I hate going to the doctor. I always feel like they say "there she is again" although I haven't been since April.

[shayesmom]

I do not take any iron supplements. I did do an iron infusion in April. The only meds I take is Tylenol or Tylenol PM (which I haven't taken for weeks). I have been hospitalized twice because of internal bleeding and extremely low hemoglobin which started with the black stools. I didn't want to seem paranoid and call the doc when it could be from other causes. Thanks for all the answers and support.

Sorry if this is redundant, but by chance, have you tried eliminating dairy? I had read an article a while back that stated 50% of all iron-deficiency anemia was immediatley caused by problems with dairy. Apparently, it can block the uptake of iron.

Just a thought.

Also, I found this site which talks about studying stools. How appropriate for this site! lol!! It seems like I spend an inordinate amount of time studying my dd's and at this point, I KNOW what food she's had by the color, texture, form and odor of her stools. YIKES! But hopefully, someone else will find some use for this.

Here's the link: Open Original Shared Link

I hope that this does get resolved soon!

[Guest Doll]

Sorry if this is redundant, but by chance, have you tried eliminating dairy? I had read an article a while back that stated 50% of all iron-deficiency anemia was immediatley caused by problems with dairy. Apparently, it can block the uptake of iron.

Just a thought.

Also, I found this site which talks about studying stools. How appropriate for this site! lol!! It seems like I spend an inordinate amount of time studying my dd's and at this point, I KNOW what food she's had by the color, texture, form and odor of her stools. YIKES! But hopefully, someone else will find some use for this.

Here's the link: Open Original Shared Link

I hope that this does get resolved soon!

She has anemia most likely due to her hx of internal bleeding. I have no idea about the dairy thing. Black stools with that kind of medical history can be considered an emergency. If stool has bright red blood, it is normally coming from the lower GI tract, but if it is black, it can be a sign of upper GI internal bleeding. This can be serious! I agree that you are doing the right thing by seeing your doctor.

Best Wishes and I hope you get better soon!!!

[shayesmom]

She has anemia most likely due to her hx of internal bleeding. I have no idea about the dairy thing. Black stools with that kind of medical history can be considered an emergency. If stool has bright red blood, it is normally coming from the lower GI tract, but if it is black, it can be a sign of upper GI internal bleeding. This can be serious! I agree that you are doing the right thing by seeing your doctor.

I found several references to dairy preventing iron absorption and a possible explanation connecting a dairy allergy/intolerance to chronic anemia. I hope that this helps. And perhaps it may also be of use to see an allergist in case of an allergy.

Open Original Shared Link

“Dietary Sources

The best dietary sources of iron are liver and other organ meats, lean red meat, poultry, fish, and shellfish (particularly oysters). Iron from these sources is readily absorbed in the intestines.

Other sources of iron include dried beans and peas, legumes, nuts and seeds, whole grains, dark molasses, and green leafy vegetables. However, iron from these sources must be accompanied by certain nutrients for proper absorption. For example, vitamin C helps the absorption of this type of iron while calcium (including all dairy products), bran, tea, and unprocessed whole grain products block its absorption.”

Open Original Shared Link

"Medications (NSAIDs). Aspirin and drugs such as ibuprofen and naproxen are called nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). About 70% of long-term users of these medications have some sign of gastrointestinal bleeding, although it is rarely significant enough to cause anemia.

Anemia of Chronic Disease (ACD)

Anemia of chronic disease (ACD) is generally a condition that is triggered by a persistent inflammatory process that is, in turn, a by-product of the disease-fighting immune system.

The Inflammatory Process and ACD. The process leading to anemia of chronic disease may occur in the following way:

 The immune system activates white blood cells and releases various compounds that cause inflammation. (These blood cells may be triggered to fight the disease or they may even be part of the disease process itself.)

 White blood cells called macrophages release small put powerful proteins known as cytokines, which are critical in the development of ACD.

 Cytokines are indispensable for healing. However, often in chronic and inflammatory diseases cytokines are overproduced and cause serious tissue injury and in some cases, even organ damage. Specific cytokines implicated in anemia are interleukin 1 (IL-1), tumor necrosis factor (TNF), and interferons.

 One theory on cytokines and other immune factors and their role in anemia suggests that they change the dynamics of iron circulation, causing iron to be held back from release into the developing red blood cells in the marrow. In this case, iron stores are high, but the usable iron in circulation is low. In some ACDs (such as chronic kidney failure), cytokines may blunt the effects of erythropoietin (EPO), the hormone that produces red blood cells. "

Open Original Shared Link

"Dietary Iron Control

Various dietary practices can help control iron levels. In a relatively short period of time, dietary changes can result in anemia, iron overload or an ideal state of iron control. Anemia can be induced in about 120 days, while symptoms of iron overload can come on in just 60 days.

Humans absorb only a fraction of the iron they consume, but there are many controlling factors.20 Iron absorption rates from food vary widely, from less than 1 percent to nearly 100 percent.21 Cooks who use iron or stainless steel pots increase the amount of iron they consume.22 Generally, iron in plant foods is not as well absorbed as iron from meat: Only 5 percent of iron in plant foods is available, vs. 30 to 50 percent of iron from meat.23 Olive oil and spices such as anise, caraway, cumin, licorice and mint promote iron absorption,24 while antacids, eggs and soy reduce availability.25 Since dairy products contain lactoferrin, milk also inhibits the absorption of iron.26 Moderate alcohol consumption is unlikely to pose a problem with iron absorption, but excessive amounts of alcohol is associated with iron overload, particularly in adult males.27"

[ravenwoodglass]

I found several references to dairy preventing iron absorption and a possible explanation connecting a dairy allergy/intolerance to chronic anemia. I hope that this helps. And perhaps it may also be of use to see an allergist in case of an allergy.

Open Original Shared Link

“Dietary Sources

The best dietary sources of iron are liver and other organ meats, lean red meat, poultry, fish, and shellfish (particularly oysters). Iron from these sources is readily absorbed in the intestines.

Other sources of iron include dried beans and peas, legumes, nuts and seeds, whole grains, dark molasses, and green leafy vegetables. However, iron from these sources must be accompanied by certain nutrients for proper absorption. For example, vitamin C helps the absorption of this type of iron while calcium (including all dairy products), bran, tea, and unprocessed whole grain products block its absorption.”

Open Original Shared Link

"Medications (NSAIDs). Aspirin and drugs such as ibuprofen and naproxen are called nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). About 70% of long-term users of these medications have some sign of gastrointestinal bleeding, although it is rarely significant enough to cause anemia.

Anemia of Chronic Disease (ACD)

Anemia of chronic disease (ACD) is generally a condition that is triggered by a persistent inflammatory process that is, in turn, a by-product of the disease-fighting immune system.

The Inflammatory Process and ACD. The process leading to anemia of chronic disease may occur in the following way:

 The immune system activates white blood cells and releases various compounds that cause inflammation. (These blood cells may be triggered to fight the disease or they may even be part of the disease process itself.)

 White blood cells called macrophages release small put powerful proteins known as cytokines, which are critical in the development of ACD.

 Cytokines are indispensable for healing. However, often in chronic and inflammatory diseases cytokines are overproduced and cause serious tissue injury and in some cases, even organ damage. Specific cytokines implicated in anemia are interleukin 1 (IL-1), tumor necrosis factor (TNF), and interferons.

 One theory on cytokines and other immune factors and their role in anemia suggests that they change the dynamics of iron circulation, causing iron to be held back from release into the developing red blood cells in the marrow. In this case, iron stores are high, but the usable iron in circulation is low. In some ACDs (such as chronic kidney failure), cytokines may blunt the effects of erythropoietin (EPO), the hormone that produces red blood cells. "

Open Original Shared Link

"Dietary Iron Control

Various dietary practices can help control iron levels. In a relatively short period of time, dietary changes can result in anemia, iron overload or an ideal state of iron control. Anemia can be induced in about 120 days, while symptoms of iron overload can come on in just 60 days.

Humans absorb only a fraction of the iron they consume, but there are many controlling factors.20 Iron absorption rates from food vary widely, from less than 1 percent to nearly 100 percent.21 Cooks who use iron or stainless steel pots increase the amount of iron they consume.22 Generally, iron in plant foods is not as well absorbed as iron from meat: Only 5 percent of iron in plant foods is available, vs. 30 to 50 percent of iron from meat.23 Olive oil and spices such as anise, caraway, cumin, licorice and mint promote iron absorption,24 while antacids, eggs and soy reduce availability.25 Since dairy products contain lactoferrin, milk also inhibits the absorption of iron.26 Moderate alcohol consumption is unlikely to pose a problem with iron absorption, but excessive amounts of alcohol is associated with iron overload, particularly in adult males.27"

Thank for posting this info. Not absorbing iron would not make your stool black though it could cause anemia. In her case the anemia was caused previouosly by bleeding not by nonabsorbtion.

[Sweetfudge]

I don't know anything about the stools, so I guess it's good that everyone else here does

As far as the dreams go, I know that I get really weird dreams when I am on my period (due to the pain, I think...as they are often incorporated with pain). Also when I am really stressed I often have strange dreams. Oh, and when I'm not sleeping well (like the last few weeks) I dream about weird things. I guess maybe I have weird dreams a lot! I know people have many different theories as to what dreams mean, but personally I believe that dreams are a manefestation of what is in your head and in your heart. What you are worried about, what you fear or desire. Sometimes they are just random, but usually I think there is some link. When I'm having cramps I will have dreams where I'm being tortured or having surgery (once by my parents and siblings), as I have really intense cramps. I also have a lot of dreams about school, as it's been a stressful part of my life lately (getting back to school, seeing my little sister get her college degree before me, etc). I don't know, if you are worried about them, maybe you could keep a dream journal. I've done that before, even just written down dreams that bother me and why I think my mind created them. You could also talk to a therapist. I know that when I have a lot of baggage and I haven't unloaded to anyone in a while, I get hyped up dreams about it. Talking really does help me calm down, and keep my irrational fears at bay. Anyway, if you want, you can pm me, I am in no way an expert, but I'll talk dreams with you if you want

Good luck!

[sparkles]

I know what you mean about going to the doc. If my insurance hadn't changed every 5 years or so in the last 20, my medical file(s) would fill an entire filing cabinet and require a whole legion of nurse's just to bring it in!!!! As it is, I can always tell which file is mine as it requires its own space in the "going to see the doc" area. BUT seriously, as a Celiac lots of internal stuff has been damaged by celiac disease and we are probably really aware of what comes out of us (as well as what goes into us) because of the celiac disease. Black stools can be a warning sign of something more serious. So don't ignore the warning signs. Remember all those "warning signs" of celiac disease before you were diagnosed???? Warning signs need to be listened to!!!

[jennyj]

I am going to try to get to the doctor as soon as I can. I really appreciate all the help. I feel like sometimes I just whine too much but when you don't feel well its hard not to worry. I have not tried eliminating dairy. I don't drink milk at all but I do like cheese or yogurt. I have heard that using a cast iron skillet will help but again I haven't tried that, I own several just never use them. I am so glad that this site is here so I can have people who know where I am coming from to help with input and concern. Thanks again.

[shayesmom]

I am going to try to get to the doctor as soon as I can. I really appreciate all the help. I feel like sometimes I just whine too much but when you don't feel well its hard not to worry. I have not tried eliminating dairy. I don't drink milk at all but I do like cheese or yogurt. I have heard that using a cast iron skillet will help but again I haven't tried that, I own several just never use them. I am so glad that this site is here so I can have people who know where I am coming from to help with input and concern. Thanks again.

It's a good thing that you have this checked out to rule out any possibilities of something life-threatening. It may also help to set up something with an allergist if other tests come back "normal". Under the Anemia of Chronic Disease that I posted, there was an explanation of how anemia could occur with chronic inflammatory conditions. If you're gluten-free and the anemia persists, I would wonder if you have another food allergy/intolerance going on that is causing inflammation and contributing to the anemia. Usually, this is only a factor with infants, but I'd imagine that it can happen with adults as well. And part of the reason that cow's milk is not recommended in infants under the age of one is that it can induce anemia by causing intestinal bleeding....often it's origin is undetectable by normal lab tests. I couldn't find the article that I had read on it. I do believe that it mentioned Dr. Oski, a pediatrician who is known for his anti-milk stance.

I just mentioned the dairy because with my dd, we used to get stools like that when she got exposed to it. It went away when we took all forms of dairy out. And now when she gets an accidental exposure, the stools are more mucousy and lighter in color. Bizarre. But with Celiac, there is a large incidence of other food allergies/intolerances going on so maybe this will turn up something that may help.

Good luck to you! And don't let this sit for too long before going in to get checked!

[jennyj]

I called the doc and I have to do a three day home hemocult test and take it in so they can check it out. Hopefully they will be able to tell me something. Thanks.

[ravenwoodglass]

I called the doc and I have to do a three day home hemocult test and take it in so they can check it out. Hopefully they will be able to tell me something. Thanks.

Really glad to hear this, I hope you get some answers soon.

[kari]

i eat tons of green veggies. that does contribute to having really really dark stools, though i wouldn't necessarily say they're exactly black.