Kimberly-clark

[lovegrov]

To those who wonder why anybody's reacting before they call Kraft --which we can't do on a weekend -- it appears to me from her posts that srokie never called Kraft herself before posting. Shouldn't she be held to that same standard? True, she was quoting a person she trusts, but those of us doubting her information are quoting dozens or even hundreds of celiacs WE trust.

As I said in an earlier post, I agree some replies to srokie were much too harsh.

richard

[lovegrov]

"As far as Kraft goes....its my understanding that they are the company who puts the most MSG into their products. Is it labeled....nope....its *hidden* in the ingredients."

I'm not sure what this has to do with whether Kraft reveals all gluten unless they also pledge to reveal all MSG and then hide it. Do they?

richard

[Canadian Karen]

To those who wonder why anybody's reacting before they call Kraft --which we can't do on a weekend -- it appears to me from her posts that srokie never called Kraft herself before posting. Shouldn't she be held to that same standard? True, she was quoting a person she trusts, but those of us doubting her are quoting dozens or even hundreds of celiacs WE trust.

richard

I can understand your point, Richard, but we have to remember who we are dealing with here. She's a "new kid". Does she know the rules? Of course not. Should we give her the benefit of the doubt and post in a kindly manner what our beliefs are, and how things are usually done around here? Of course we should have. Did we? I don't think so......

Karen

[Fiddle-Faddle]

To those who wonder why anybody's reacting before they call Kraft --which we can't do on a weekend -- it appears to me from her posts that srokie never called Kraft herself before posting. Shouldn't she be held to that same standard? True, she was quoting a person she trusts, but those of us doubting her are quoting dozens or even hundreds of celiacs WE trust.

richard

How many people here who posted that Kraft is a "safe" company called Kraft to verify this? Srokie never pretended to have called Kraft--she passed on info and where she got it. Very few of us have done more--including me and you.

[Michi8]

She provided you with that information when she named her sources. She offered up her Doctors phone number...what more do you need?? She presented the information as it was told to her....by two fellow Celiacs....you have every right to either believe it or to ignore it.

So if you dont believe what shes saying.....what are you really accomplishing by attacking her??

I will reiterate what I stated in my earlier post...

Not being able to contact the company on a Sunday does not justify attacking the poster.

I have not attacked srokie. Please do not accuse me of such. I have been, as others have, skeptical of the information she has presented.

Having been on the defensive side in my own threads and posts, I know what it feels like to have a lot of people question a point of view, especially when it has been written in frustration or passion about a product, dr, experience, whatever...and have virtually no one post in support or defense of my view. Not a fun position to be in, and can definitely be a blow...making a person feel less than welcome or leave one feeling like their participation in discussion is of less value than that of others. I've certainly come away feeling like certain topics are not to be brought up, as if it is an affront to the beliefs of the group as a whole. But it hasn't sent me away with my tail between my legs. Nor should that be the case with srokie.

Michelle

[jaten]

If you re-read her post you will see that she clearly states that the info about the paper products came from another college student and the info. re: Planters and Crystal Light came from her Doctor.

Guilty. I did read her post too quickly. For that I truly apologize to Srokie and everyone else.

Can we pleeeeease put a rest to the conspiracy theories???

No conspiracy theories being entertained here. She's a student at Emory? Right? I do contend then that she's intelligent enough to know that to emphatically declare information that flies in the face of long-accepted "fact," requires a source more reliable than "a friend who read some newsletter or magazine.". She said herself she has to be intelligent to have even been accepted to Emory. Correct.

All I'm trying to say is...can we please not create a hostile environment so that new members are afraid to post here??

No hostility. I do wish her well. Truly. She had already been asked to please post more specific information regarding claims in another post. Who's hostile? Please note that I had extended a welcome to her after the first round of confusion. Granted, later I did say that I would not be begging her back.

I am not a harsh or hostile person. If I have been in this case, someone please feel free to pm me.

[lovegrov]

Fiddle Faddle, I've called Kraft numerous times over the past five years to ask questions about products, but I'm befuddled as to what I would ask to determine if they are a "safe" company. I'm serious, how would YOU go about determining this through a phone call to the company?

The only way I know to do that is to listen to the experiences of others. And in five years those people have been OVERWHELMINGLY (for emphasis, not yelling) positive. On the other hand, I don't really trust Lay's because of the number of negative experiences I've heard about. I do not automatically trust all companies.

Please note I am NOT one of the people who jumped all over srokie about soy, her "doctor," (the only post I made there was to name a highly regarded celiac doctor in Atlanta) or even this topic. I did post what I believed and why as to Kraft, but please don't lump me in with the people you believe were too harsh with her. I did not post anything that drove her away.

richard

[Rachel--24]

those of us doubting her information are quoting dozens or even hundreds of celiacs WE trust.

True...but if I were to post a topic right now asking if anyone's had any problems with Planters peanuts....there *are* going to be people saying that they have. These threads have come up in the past...so I know that some people *do* react to them.

Of course it doesnt mean the nuts are dusted with flour...it could be a completely seperate issue. The point is...some people are interested in hearing about these types of possibilities. Not every person with Celiac reacts to the same products and some are more sesitive than others.

I dont think its right to shoot down a poster because they are making a statement about a company that hasnt given you any problems.

To answer your question about whether or not I trust Kraft. The answer is NO...I dont put all of my faith into any company. They are a business.....their primary focus is to make money. Like I said....they put MORE msg into their products than any other food company...sooo...do I really think our health is their priority?? The answer is NO....this is not to say that I am anti-Kraft or that I will not eat any of their products. I simply will listen to my body on matters such as these.

I have heard a thousand times that Kraft will label all gluten. I've heard it from this board...we ALL have. So basically....its just a rumor to me...until I actually go to one of their plants and actually see how they process the nuts...its all just "heresay". I listen to my body above all else.

[Rachel--24]

I'm not sure what this has to do with whether Kraft reveals all gluten unless they also pledge to reveal all MSG and then hide it. Do they?

The point is...if I *know* there to be msg in a Kraft product and then call them to ask if indeed there is msg in the product....they will say NO....because it is not listed in the ingredients. It is processed into *other* ingredients. Therefore they get around the labeling law and they will NOT disclose the information.

So why should I believe that if you call Kraft and they say that they will label *all* gluten that this is absolutely TRUE???

[Rachel--24]

I've certainly come away feeling like certain topics are not to be brought up, as if it is an affront to the beliefs of the group as a whole. But it hasn't sent me away with my tail between my legs. Nor should that be the case with srokie.

I havent seen you or anyone else come under attack in the same rude and unwelcoming manner that Srokie was. She started 3 topics and was insulted and attacked in every one of them. I dont think shes walking away with her tail between her legs. I think shes fed up....plain and simple....and I dont blame her.

[lovegrov]

"They are a business.....their primary focus is to make money."

I agree. So I don't understand why they would publicly declare they will list all gluten and then violate the law and face enormous lawsuits by illegally hiding gluten. The fines and lawsuits wouldn't be worth the small amount of money they make from people with celiac and wheat allergies.

"I have heard a thousand times that Kraft will label all gluten. I've heard it from this board...we ALL have. So basically....its just a rumor to me...until I actually go to one of their plants and actually see how they process the nuts...its all just "heresay"."

I also listen to my body. But Kraft's policy isn't just hearsay. Kraft says upfront on their website that this is their policy and they have a very impressive page about celiac and gluten. If you've never read it, you should. I'm sure they make mistakes or have accidental CC, but that's also happened at some specialty gluten-free companies in the past.

richard

[lovegrov]

Is there a law requiring that MSG be listed? If so, I wasn't aware of it.

BTW, under the allergen law, it's illegal to process one of the 8 top allergens into another ingredient and then not list the allergen.

richard

[Sillyyakdidi]

Well, I know one thing for sure, if I was a newbie lurking around in the last few days, I certainly would be hightailing it out of town pretty quick!

I prefer to always give people the benefit of the doubt. By doing so, I have gotten burned many, many times, but on the other side of the coin, my instincts are usually pretty good and I still believe that this girl is exactly as she says she is, a 20 yr old college student who is totally enamoured with her new doctor, who has just finally given her the proper diagnosis she has been searching for. I see nothing wrong with that, and I certainly don't see enough "evidence" to warrant the attacks this person has had to endure in three different threads.

Just because, in her excitement to share information in this new world she just entered, she doesn't word it in the way that we are accustomed to, doesn't give people the right to gang up on her in such a manner.

I am sorry, but I'm disappointed......

Karen

well i'll admit it, i'm a newbie floating around, although i've been doing the gluten-free thing for almost two years now, so i dont let "hearsay" from other people get to me. I really doubt anything that was said was done to intentionally hurt someone, but, please don't be mean to me, i'm nice!

[jaten]

OH, PEOPLE, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!!!!!

...simply saying "that's not true" really sets you up as the all-knowing expert and others as people who don't know as much as you do. That can't work on boards like this one; we are all in the same boat.

Agreed. But everything she said was not true. It is a fact that Charmin and Bounty are not Kimberly-Clark products. I have them. I checked their packaging before posting. So to say it is not true is correct. Kimberly-Clark does not dust Charmin and Bounty with anything.

Srokie said she would not post something without knowing for sure it was true.

[Mtndog]

I am realy disappointed that the way I found out about Srokie's threads and the attacks on her was because my inbox was full of people reporting posts. This whole thing is really lame. Yes, I said lame. It's fine to doubt someone's identity, doctor's advice, hearsay information, but just to refresh your memories, IT's A VERY LONG LEARNING CURVE.

And play nice. If i was a newbie around here, I'd run for the hills.

[blueeyedmanda]

I too, was one of the skeptical ones, and even after all that dust settled I welcomed her and apologized for my posts, I was not outwardly mean to her.

My concern was people who were very new would see those posts and get the wrong information. We are all here to help each other and we do a good job. I have learned a lot from everyone here. I try to post about new products but....my area is limited in Health food stores so I don't get many chances.

I agree she probably was just excited to share new information with us.

[Rachel--24]

Is there a law requiring that MSG be listed? If so, I wasn't aware of it.

BTW, under the allergen law, it's illegal to process one of the 8 top allergens into another ingredient and then not list the allergen.

The point I'm trying to make is that companies are NOT above deception. The law is NEW....I think its not far fetched to assume that some companies are not following the law to a "T".

C'mon....people break the law everyday. Until someone gets caught...rules get broken.

My personal opinion is that these products are likely gluten-free.....BUT....I still am interested to hear about experiences of others and/or possible new information.

Heck...look what happened with McDonalds. Before that fiasco everyone swore up and down that McDonalds wouldnt declare the fries gluten-free if they werent. Some people have problems with the fries and others dont....we ALL have the right to hear information...even if it falls outside of what we're accustomed to believing.

If we dont have the information at all...how can we form an opinion one way or the other??

[jaten]

....My concern was people who were very new would see those posts and get the wrong information. We are all here to help each other and we do a good job....

I believe that any of us who questioned Srokie had this exact concern. I know it was/is mine.

[Mtndog]

I believe that any of us who questioned Srokie had this exact concern. I know it was/is mine.

Totally valid to question, it just seemed like some of the posts were jumping all over her harshly. And as always, it seems that some people just start jumping in for the "fun" of being abusive.

I love this board and the people on it, it just boggles my mind when there is so much drama that there needn't be.

[emcmaster]

I believe that any of us who questioned Srokie had this exact concern. I know it was/is mine.

Yup.

[olalisa]

Here's the way I see it. Srokie came onto the board trying to be helpful with information that she believes to be true. I do think that her source on the toilet tissue is heresay and that we need clarification/documentation on the planter's statement from her doctor. When people questioned her, in a nice way, actually stating that they were not trying to be harsh. The drama began when Srokie reacted to people's comments by being so very defensive. Her response to people's comments was, in my opinion, way out of line. If you read her thread related to soy, she did the same thing. People do disagree on this forum from time to time, and that's okay. For the most part, we do play nice. I believe that Srokie got back what she gave after she responded to people's questions.

I have never felt attacked here. I do feel ignored sometimes, which can be frustrating, but I keep coming back because this place offers such a wealth of information. People here are articulate, intelligent, and for the most part, willing to listen to various points of view.

So let's keep sharing and playing nice while we search for answers on this.

[emcmaster]

Totally valid to question, it just seemed like some of the posts were jumping all over her harshly. And as always, it seems that some people just start jumping in for the "fun" of being abusive.

I love this board and the people on it, it just boggles my mind when there is so much drama that there needn't be.

I wonder if some of the people that "attacked" her did so because they sensed the same attitude in her posts that I did? It's hard to convey tone and meaning over a message board, but I sensed a lot of attitude, that might not be intentional, emanating from her posts.

[emcmaster]

Here's the way I see it. Srokie came onto the board trying to be helpful with information that she believes to be true. I do think that her source on the toilet tissue is heresay and that we need clarification/documentation on the planter's statement from her doctor. When people questioned her, in a nice way, actually stating that they were not trying to be harsh. The drama began when Srokie reacted to people's comments by being so very defensive. Her response to people's comments was, in my opinion, way out of line. If you read her thread related to soy, she did the same thing. People do disagree on this forum from time to time, and that's okay. For the most part, we do play nice. I believe that Srokie got back what she gave after she responded to people's questions.

I have never felt attacked here. I do feel ignored sometimes, which can be frustrating, but I keep coming back because this place offers such a wealth of information. People here are articulate, intelligent, and for the most part, willing to listen to various points of view.

So let's keep sharing and playing nice while we search for answers on this.

You said it better than I did.

[blueeyedmanda]

I have had people disagree with some of my posts but I don't recall ever being defensive about it. She did say we can call her doctor but what confused me (please don't get upset for me asking) was when it was stated that the doctor conducted appointments by phone. So if we contacted the doctor, would we be required to take an appointment or could we call to make a general inquiry.

[Canadian Karen]

and therein lies the problem:

Where some people saw "attitude", I saw "over-exhuberence".....

I guess because my niece happens to be a 20 yr old student and I can see Joanna embracing her new knowledge with the same passion that got her into Cornell....... and going a bit overboard in the process.

I just don't want it to be known around the celiac world that "Boy, if you want to post on Celiac.com, you better really know your stuff, or else they will jump all over you!"

Karen