Mozart And The Whale

[2kids4me]

Our family just watched Mozart and the Whale.

It is loosely based on the relationship between two people with Aspergers.. very well done. They eventually marry. One character (Donald) started a support group for individuals affected by an autistic spectrum disorder. All the characters have different behaviors and reactions to situations which mirrors real life with autism - no two people are affected the same.

One part of the movie is in an amusement park - Isabelle reacts to noise from clanging metal. My daughter said : thats' how I feel on the inside when my class gets to noisy or they make me attend a school concert. I told her teachers to watch the movie and THEN maybe they will understand why she is stressed at the end of the day.

Even better to watch it a second time with the commentary on - helped me understand even more what each day can be like for my daughter.

[Ursa Major]

I hope the film comes out around here soon, I want to see it. When I was still part of one Asperger forum (I am still a member, but have stopped participating), Jerry Newport was there, too. He was attacked a lot, because a lot of Aspies are pretty fanatical about being better than NTs (regular people), and actually believe that they are the next step up on the evolutionary ladder, and he didn't believe that (and neither do I). He is a very nice guy, I liked what he had to say.

[2kids4me]

You should be able to find it at Walmart, Zellers, Future shop or rent it at your local video store.

Kathryn was very interested throughout the movie, she commented at the end that she can censure herself better than Isabelle, was like her when it comes to noises, but she related to Donald because of the discomfort with eye contact.

Kathryn is on the honour role at school yet when we play board games, she has difficulty counting the dots. The contradiction of Aspergers........ I know exactly why she has trouble (visual processing) but most people think she is "dumb" when playing games and lose patience with her.

THOSE are the ones that should watch the movie too!!

Sandy

[tarnalberry]

Very interesting. Heck, I feel the same way about noise some days (just the general noise of the office can be nerve-wracking), but not others... :/

Thanks for sharing that. I may have to pick that up soon.

[Ursa Major]

You should be able to find it at Walmart, Zellers, Future shop or rent it at your local video store.

Kathryn was very interested throughout the movie, she commented at the end that she can censure herself better than Isabelle, was like her when it comes to noises, but she related to Donald because of the discomfort with eye contact.

Kathryn is on the honour role at school yet when we play board games, she has difficulty counting the dots. The contradiction of Aspergers........ I know exactly why she has trouble (visual processing) but most people think she is "dumb" when playing games and lose patience with her.

THOSE are the ones that should watch the movie too!!

Sandy

Thanks, I have a Zellers right here in town, I'll check it out tomorrow.

[Creative-Soul]

2kids4me,

Thanks for the movie info... I'll defintely be looking into watching it. It may help me understand a few things about myself better, and may help me with my therapist; I suspect I may actually have Aspergers, but she won't rule it in or out as yet (why do people have such a hard time with diagnosing adults??? It's so frustrating!!).

Thanks again!!

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Thank you so much--I hadn't heard of that movie. I will get it ASAP!

Creative Soul, I would like to suggest that you not worry too much about a diagnosis at this point, unless you need to find a group that youfeel you "fit in" with. If there is knowledge that you can pick up from Asperger's websites that is helpful, you can--and you don't need a diagnosis to implement whatever changes you would like in your life.

One reason I say this is that I know a 17-year-old with Asperger's whose mother NEVER lets him forget that he has Asperger's, and is constantly telling him that he "can't" do verious things because he has Asperger's. While I think his diagnosis is certainly correct, I am very sad that it is being used to shut doors for him, rather than being used as a teaching aid, so that he knows how to conquer whatever Asperger-related things he wants to conquer (instead of saying that he can't do them, period).

And certainly, if you feel like the diagnosis fits, there is no reason for you to seek an official diagnosis from a health professional. The most valuable part of the diagnosis is the research available on what teaching/learning methods work best, and how to deal with some of the typical difficulties ( such as noise sensitivity).

[2kids4me]

This is a review of the movie that summed it all up:

*Also you can find it online through bookstore site (Chapters, amazon etc) or at Future Shop (Canadian store), or order it through your local video store.

I found a somewhat comical but probably common interaction between the psychiatrist in the film and Donald ..the man with Aspergers ...as the doctor says .."Aspergers is a funny animal" and Donald looks at the Dr funny and walks away. This is a psychiatrist who treats patients with Aspergers and should know they take things literally .....

Just a few comments regarding "Mozart..." Fabulous. Real. Honest. Loved Jerry's character, and the depth of his feelings and emotions. Loved the way he communicated his frustration and sadness, as well as his joy.

Concerning the Mary character. This is the first time a woman with autism has been presented as an NT on the outside. Most women with autism appear to be quite functional and social. Only after significant observation that you can 'see' the autism. This characterization of Mary will literally save millions of women out there. Women like me. These are the women most unlikely to get the diagnosis which is essential if they are to be whole and complete.

We spend years separated from our autistic selves; repressing it and mimicking others to the point where we are fragments of our true selves. The longer the wait for diagnosis, the deeper the void. It is only through diagnosis that we have a framework in which we can be reconnected. (Like Mary, I too, used my sexual identity to find that framework).We are not recovered "from" autism, but into our whole and unique autistic selves. Only then can we reintegrate into a whole person. I know. I am still a 'work in progress'. This movie will help many find that self.

Sandy

[Ursa Major]

My diagnosis validated me as the person I am. People have misunderstood me all my life. They have been trying to make me into somebody I am incapable of being. They have forced me to be social and to participate in things that totally overwhelm me, because that is what 'normal' people are 'supposed' to be doing.

I was made to feel inferior, and for most of my youth and adulthood I felt that maybe I was crazy and worthless, because I couldn't be who people wanted me to be. I knew I was different, but tried very hard to imitate others and to fit in, so nobody would notice how weird and worthless and completely different I was, because I had been rejected even by my own mother for being 'all wrong'.

When I first read about Asperger syndrome in January of 2004, a lightbulb went on in my head. All those accounts of what people with AS are like were describing me! I did a ton of research, and finally went to a specialist and got officially diagnosed. He said that there was absolutely no doubt I have AS, I was a typical textbook case.

And then I found others just like me (on the Internet), and realized that it is okay to be me, that I am not crazy and have a right to be who I am, just like NTs have the right to be who they are.

I still try to do my best to fit in. But I have stopped hiding my real self. I wasn't doing a great job at that before anyway. Sooner or later I would say or do something totally 'off' without knowing it, embarrassing myself and others. It is pretty inevitable. Like asking a 'stupid' question about why a joke was funny. Or taking something somebody said in jest literally, and people laughing at my naivet

[2kids4me]

uh well, okay but if wants to label you as...

He'll tell me that the way I am is not 'normal', and I should get over it.

then I would tell him:

"You are inconsiderate and ignorant to expect ANYONE to babysit, then entertain guests several days in one week"

At least I would if I were there when he said that..

I am considered NT although I am sure I have what is described as "shadow Aspergers" - I hate crowds, prefer "talking" over the internet to being in person....

How is it considered "normal "to have friends over so often?.... I would turn that one around and wonder why he has difficulty being alone - is he insecure, does he have low self esteem? See how he likes being ridiculed for who he is... Gosh, darn,

Okay so I went on a rant. Ursula, you have every right to limit guests in YOUR home, to limit the assault into your world. You sound like an amazing person who has vast knowledge and experience to share, and insight into human nature.

From the movie: "You can't teach animals cruelty" ... talking about why some people with autism have so many pets or seem to prefer animals to humans.

Sandy

[tarnalberry]

normal is just one point on a broad curve!

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Ursula, I don't doubt your diagnosis one bit (nd I probably belong in the "shadow" category myself, but I AM CONVINCED THAT IT IS YOUR HUSBAND WHO IS NOT NORMAL.

There is nothing "wrong" with you, Asperger's and all. You are not inferior, crazy, or worthless. You just process things in your mind a different way than most--not worse, just different. In some ways better, in some ways, maybe you miss some important things--but those can be explained or translated by someone with half an ounce of sensitivity.

There IS something--maybe a lot of things--wrong with your husband.

I can't imagine any spouse inviting guests without consulting the other spouse. I do all the cooking, but i would never invite people to our house without checking with my husband.

Hang in there....

[Creative-Soul]

Thank you so much--I hadn't heard of that movie. I will get it ASAP!

Creative Soul, I would like to suggest that you not worry too much about a diagnosis at this point, unless you need to find a group that youfeel you "fit in" with. If there is knowledge that you can pick up from Asperger's websites that is helpful, you can--and you don't need a diagnosis to implement whatever changes you would like in your life.

And certainly, if you feel like the diagnosis fits, there is no reason for you to seek an official diagnosis from a health professional. The most valuable part of the diagnosis is the research available on what teaching/learning methods work best, and how to deal with some of the typical difficulties ( such as noise sensitivity).

I've been so busy the past few days that this is my first chance to read or post...

Fiddle-Faddle, thank you for all that you said; this will be the second thing that I've diagnosed on my own! I am making an effort to learn more about it, but I'd also like to talk to other people who have it as well, or at least have an understanding about it...Yes, the noise and light sensitivites can drive me nutso ...arrgghhhh!!!! And having people over... my God, it's exhausting enough just being around the people that I am regularly around every day!

My diagnosis validated me as the person I am. People have misunderstood me all my life. They have been trying to make me into somebody I am incapable of being. They have forced me to be social and to participate in things that totally overwhelm me, because that is what 'normal' people are 'supposed' to be doing.

Oh, boy do I understand that!!!

I was made to feel inferior, and for most of my youth and adulthood I felt that maybe I was crazy and worthless, because I couldn't be who people wanted me to be. I knew I was different, but tried very hard to imitate others and to fit in, so nobody would notice how weird and worthless and completely different I was, because I had been rejected even by my own mother for being 'all wrong'.

Umnn...I think that we could be related!!! The whole mother thing... *shrugs and shakes head*

When I first read about Asperger syndrome in January of 2004, a lightbulb went on in my head. All those accounts of what people with AS are like were describing me! I did a ton of research, and finally went to a specialist and got officially diagnosed. He said that there was absolutely no doubt I have AS, I was a typical textbook case.

I still try to do my best to fit in. But I have stopped hiding my real self. I wasn't doing a great job at that before anyway. Sooner or later I would say or do something totally 'off' without knowing it, embarrassing myself and others. It is pretty inevitable. Like asking a 'stupid' question about why a joke was funny. Or taking something somebody said in jest literally, and people laughing at my naivet

[2Boys4Me]

What is NT? I see in a previous post it says "regular people", but why are they referred to as NT?

[2kids4me]

NT = neurotypical (neuro: brain)

It is a term to differentiate between a person affected by autism (most commonly) and a "normal" person.

Sandy

[Ursa Major]

What is NT? I see in a previous post it says "regular people", but why are they referred to as NT?

It is short for 'neurologically typical', somehow the specialists came up with that. I don't necessarily like it, but it's easier to type.

[2kids4me]

okay, I found this on the web . It is meant to poke fun at "normal" as defined by many in this world. I got a chuckle out of it and I hope some of you will see the humour ...

An alternate definition of NT:

Neurotypical syndrome is a neurobiological disorder characterized by preoccupation with social concerns, delusions of superiority, and obsession with conformity.

Neurotypical individuals often assume that their experience of the world is either the only one, or the only correct one. NTs find it difficult to be alone. NTs are often intolerant of seemingly minor differences in others. When in groups NTs are socially and behaviorally rigid, and frequently insist upon the performance of dysfunctional, destructive, and even impossible rituals as a way of maintaining group identity. NTs find it difficult to communicate directly, and have a much higher incidence of lying as compared to persons on the autistic spectrum.

NT is believed to be genetic in origin. Autopsies have shown the brain of the neurotypical is typically smaller than that of an autistic individual and may have overdeveloped areas related to social behavior.

[Ursa Major]

Yes, of course I have seen that before, and it is funny. But it also shows that what is 'normal' is all a matter of perspective. If people with AS were in the majority, NTs would probably just be seen as those 'annoying social people, who won't ever leave you alone and get your work done'.

[2kids4me]

NTs would probably just be seen as those 'annoying social people, who won't ever leave you alone and get your work done'.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

So --how much is nature and how much is nurture?

If you have intelligent and sensitive NT parents with an autistic child, they can teach the child how to translate and function in an NT world.

How would an NT child of 2 autistic parents behave and/or see the world??

[debmidge]

earlier post mentioned "eye contact" as an issue? Please describe and also is this issue with asbergers?

[2kids4me]

it is difficult for most people affected by Aspergers and autism to make eye contact.

Think of how many articles are written about active listening and making eye contact - it appears to most people as if the person (Asperger) is not listening or is disinterested because they look down or away, or off to the side. Yet they ARE listening.

Sandy

[Creative-Soul]

I have a question... what books or other resources would you recommend for more information? There's so much out there but I know that someone here should be able to help point me towards the real gems...

Thank you...

[Jo.R]

Especially when he keeps inviting guests for meals. I babysat three days last week, and we had guests the other four days - not fair to me, I am utterly exhausted, I cannot handle having guests in my house that often, especially if they're strangers. He'll tell me that the way I am is not 'normal', and I should get over it.

[2kids4me]

#1 Watch the movie

Tony Attwood has wriiten books about it and they are quite helpful

Open Original Shared Link

I liked this description - it is long but it is worded well:

Open Original Shared Link

Asperger's syndrome is a form of autism. Autism, in all of its forms, is what is called a pervasive developmental disorder. In essence, it is a slight difference in the construction of the brain, probably present since birth, that affects the way the child develops. It's not a mental condition... it is a neurological difference. Although the terms that describe it (syndrome, disorder, et cetera) have onerous connotations, it's more accurate to simply say that so affected individuals are different.

Most of the differences relate to the way that aspies (a term that people with Asperger's Syndrome use to describe themselves) communicate with others. They tend to have a rather straightforward style, and that has several implications. First, the roundabout way in which normal (neurologically typical, or NT) people communicate is replaced with a rather blunt, sometimes apparently tactless approach. Aspies say what they are thinking, and there is no such thing as beating around the bush. They don't "say things without saying them," or lace their words with innuendo or hidden meaning. There's no subtext... what is said is what is meant, and it is that simple. NTs often have a hard time figuring out what an aspie means, simply because he (the NT) is not accustomed to interpreting the words completely at face value. They often refuse to believe that there is no hidden meaning, or that the comments they interpret as rude or harsh are actually meant to be helpful. This can cause hard feelings and misunderstandings, and unfortunately the aspie is usually on the losing end of the exchange.

Aspies communicate and interpret language literally. That's not to say that they do not make use of metaphor or simile; in fact, many of them show rather advanced use of such concepts. However, the basic mode is to use words in a very unambiguous and precise way. Precision and clarity (and often verbosity) are the hallmarks of typical aspie speech and prose. Aspies typically use a formal manner in everyday communications, written or spoken. While odd to NTs, this is an outgrowth of the aspie preoccupation with precision and accuracy in the use of language.

As children, aspies lack the inborn "detective skills" to automatically determine and integrate the "unwritten rules" of personal conduct and body language (often including facial expressions). Parents do not have to actively teach their children to recognize these nonverbal cues, because the children have a built-in ability to learn them, and to incorporate them appropriately into their own code of conduct. Aspies never pick up on these things, so as adults, they still do not have the ability to recognize these nonverbal signals. Of course, this can cause confusion when NTs and aspies communicate. The NT may send signals that he is not interested in a particular topic, or that he has tired of talking to the other person completely. The aspie will miss these signals, and the NT typically grows more and more angry as his signals, from his perspective (and at an unconscious level), are ignored.

The aspie, whether a child or an adult, is not usually interested in the social hierarchy of the group. Popularity, "coolness," jealousy, image, office politics... all of these are things that do not concern aspies. Unfortunately, this often means that they end up at the bottom of the hierarchy. In school, aspie kids are often picked on by all of the other kids, who seek to improve their own prestige by abusing others. That need to improve one's image, even if by making others look bad, is not something that aspies can really comprehend. They just do what they want to do, without any worry about whether something is "cool" or not.

Many of the medical texts suggest that people with AS prefer to be alone. That's not really accurate, though. While most aspies will need to have some "alone" time each day, they don't usually want to remain solitary all of the time. Most aspies do want to be social and to interact with others, but they often have long histories of disastrous results with regard to interpersonal communications, for the reasons described above. It is not so hard to see why many aspies shy away from others.

Aspies tend to be well above average in intelligence, and language skills far in excess of the norm for the age group are common. Aspie children often read and write several grade levels higher than their like-aged peers. Aspies of all ages often have unusually expansive working vocabularies, and it is often said that aspie kids talk like adults.

One of the most interesting aspects of the aspie personality is the "perseveration," or the special interest. Aspies tend to be rather deeply engrossed in one specific topic, and that one area of interest dominates the mind and free time. This is not to say that they cannot think of anything else, but they show a sense of zeal and enthusiasm for the special interest that most NTs will never experience. The topics of interest can be quite common, like computers or car repair, or they can be rather bizarre. Anything from dinosaurs to fleas to mimeograph machines can be the focus. The person will typically seek to gather and absorb as much information on the special interest as he can find... from libraries, the internet, experts in the field, and through direct experience where possible. Sometimes the special interest persists for years; in other cases, it may only last for a few weeks, at which time a new interest will take over.

Aspies tend to be very responsive to stimulus. Loud noises, bright lights, powerful odors, or unexpected touch can overload an aspie's mind. Loud noises of short duration produce an effect in the mind that resembles that of scratching a chalkboard. Certain persistent noises, especially loud or "busy" ones (like multiple voices), can be very tiring and stressful. Visually busy or bright environments can have a similar effect. Aspies tend to prefer quiet environments with subdued lighting. Many of them carry earplugs and sunglasses to help them deal with unexpected sensory overloads.

The aspie mind by nature abhors inaccuracy and imprecision, and dishonesty and deception do not come naturally. Aspies are by nature loyal, accepting of difference, and have a talent for being able to accurately assess themselves and others. Their unique position outside of the norm allows them to see things as few can.

By nature, people with AS are innovators; their inability to recognize the unwritten rules means that they live in a world largely without preset limits... so ideas and concepts that may never have existed without such a perspective are born. People like Ludwig von Beethoven, Thomas Jefferson, Albert Einstein, and Bill Gates were (or are) probably aspies. Arrogant, eccentric, strange, intelligent, perceptive, genius. They're all words that have been used to describe the people above, as well as many or most known aspies.

Medical texts tend to describe AS in terms of impairment, disability, and the problems it causes. They're all written from the perspective that normal is good and unusual is bad; that all deviations from the usual are signs of dysfunction and must eventually be cured. They fail to see the beauty of AS, and of being different. Many aspies, including the author of this article, like their AS... it is more than just a condition in a medical book. It's a part of who they are, and what thy are. As this article's author says, "I would not be 'me' if the AS were not there. I really do see it as a thing of beauty."

Sandy