Gluten Withdrawal

[JerryK]

Just curious what you all think about Gluten Withdrawal. Wondering if it's real, and what it feels like.

I'm not really sure I've felt anything that I could attribute to withdrawal, but perhaps some increased

anxiety/agitation could be related to withdrawal

Any experience...do you feel worse for a while, before you feel better? What are your symptoms?

Thanks, Jerry

[Nancym]

For me it was psychological, just mourning over giving up gluten and some favorite foods. Other people seem to have more physical responses.

Holy cow, have you ever tried giving up a caffeine addiction? Now that's some powerful withdrawl symptoms (if you're a heavy coffee drinker).

[Kaycee]

I got a little bit of withdrawals. The first couple of days gluten free were good, but then I hit the stage where I was a bit anxious and probably how do I put it, not quite steady in my brain or footings. But that was only for a day or two, I was walking the dog and thought I felt peculiar then just realised I was trying to give up gluten, so I just thought it was that. It was much better a couple days later.

Tell me about coffee withdrawals! That had been the hardest thing to try to give up, even harder than giving up smoking. I got headaches so bad, and I normally do not get them. I did start drinking again about a week later, but nowhere near the 15 cups back then as I do not want to experience those headaches again. On a better note, I am still smoke free 18 years later. So it is glutenfree/smoke free.

Cathy

[Chrisser]

It was real for me. I got the shakes, the sweats, and was really anxious. It was miserable. The first few days were the worst. It gradually subsided after that. I ended up calling my doctor about it because it was so bad, and the nurse said the withdrawal period is about 2 weeks.

[sillyyak]

Oh my gosh. I DEFINITELY believe in Gluten Withdrawl symptoms. I feel that I am now in gluten recovery with of course the potential for relapse.

I experienced shakes, anxiety, tremors, bad D, stomach pains, aches, It was if my body were readjusting to no gluten and trying to get rid of the toxins all at once. Plus there was the psychological component. It took me about 6 months.

I was accidently glutened recently and it gave me bad D, terrible stomach pains, and an awful headache.

[darlindeb25]

I do not think I experienced withdrawal, I had been so sick that going gluten-free and feeling better was such a relief. I did however mourn food, yet I had been gluten-free for 5 yrs before this hit me. Also, by this time, I developed other intolerances and I was mourning more than just gluten.

[gfp]

The degree of withdsrawal probably varies greatly from individual to individual....

I think the most important part is to regognize it for what it is and realise it goes away.

I actually think that many of the side effects of glutening are actually as much to do with withdrawal as they are poisioning.

My opinion is you can divide the symptoms into direct and indirect .... although in reality when you get down tot he nitty gritty they are almost all indirect since its not the gluten making you ill but your bodies reaction to it.

Much as this doesn't matter 1c when your ILL .. its worth looking into IMHO....

What I have found when accidentally glutened is if I keep it "topped up" I don't actually crash... immediately.

I'm not recommending this but on a few occaisions Ive decided to be hung for the sheep, not the lamb... especially when I've for instance been on vacation in Italy and managed not to get glutened for 2 1/2 weeks and thought screw it, Ive only 3 days left and I can eat real pizza, pasta and drink real beer..... my justificaqtion is I'm goiung to be ill for 2-6 weeks (depending on severity) so x weeks or x weeks+3 days ???

Anyway the thing I found is if I eat a little I can keep goiung (being suitably blocked up with immodium) but that after a maximum of a week I basically crash.... this crash takes perhaps an hour tops to onset... people have literally watched me turn grey-green and wanted to send me to hospital in an ambulance I look that ill.

After this I'm screwed for 2-3 days... and I mean screwed... like not leave the house and for the fiorst day not leave the bed except for my other bedroom (by which I mean the one with the toilet) ... I used to wrap myself in towels to keep warm, now I gave up and Ive a fleece blancket in there for the winter and extended stay parking.

Anyway... prior to the crash as I call it although Im not 100% I'm not so bad as if I just stop...

This is my interpretation anyway....

Firstly mood swings, brain fog etc. is all due to gluten interfering with the bodies own mood regualtors.

Gluten acts on the endorphion receptors which usually accept endorphins which lift your mood.

These are the same receptors that opiates bind to...

However gluten doesn't fit properly, it can damage the receptors thus once it dissapears your body is still unable to effectively regulate your mood because the endorphins don't bind...

What I call direct symptioms are D, fever and flu-like and the like which are the bodies own defenses.. when we get flu our body reacts by raising the temperature and creating antibodies and the creation of antibodies is both draining in itself on the bodies resources and replaces red blood cells which equally fatigues.

Indirect is the killer though.... for me its like being ill with one thing then WHAM ... not only do you have one tiring/fatiguing thing but you are practically stripped of your will to "live" ... I don't mean die... I mean live as in live life actively....

I go from enjoying life to it being something I just want to bypass me until I'm better...no reason to get out of bed, I just want the time to pass....

To give a sporting analogy.... getting glutened is like tripping on the final run to home base on a home run, it really sucks but you can brush yourself off. The after effects or withdrawal are like somebody hitting me with a baseball bat in the head everytime I try and pick myself up to brush myself off. Sometimes I just think screw this I'll just lie in the dust until they get bored and go home!

[darlindeb25]

gfp, you are so wrong. It is never ok to gluten yourself on purpose. Each time you are glutened causes damage and a setback. When you are accidentally glutened, that is one thing, but doing it to yourself is wrong. You are kidding yourself if you think it doesn't matter, because it does and I truly do not think you should be telling others it is ok. Gluten is poison to us. When you feel the urge to eat gluten, then you need to talk yourself out of it. I have had gluten free pizza that is every bit as good as a pizza full of gluten. You need to realize you CAN'T CHEAT!!!! For your health, you need to change this way of thinking. Please.

[gfp]

gfp, you are so wrong. It is never ok to gluten yourself on purpose. Each time you are glutened causes damage and a setback. When you are accidentally glutened, that is one thing, but doing it to yourself is wrong. You are kidding yourself if you think it doesn't matter, because it does and I truly do not think you should be telling others it is ok. Gluten is poison to us. When you feel the urge to eat gluten, then you need to talk yourself out of it. I have had gluten free pizza that is every bit as good as a pizza full of gluten. You need to realize you CAN'T CHEAT!!!! For your health, you need to change this way of thinking. Please.

perhaps I should have bolded "I'm not recommending this "

Each time you are glutened causes damage and a setback.

True but then it depends on what you mean by each time...

Considerable medical opinion (which I disagree with) recommends gluten challenges of months... I don't see how this is justified... but its still the majority of medical opinion... just because you are eating gluten for a biopsy doesn't change any of this...

The bottom line comes down to what damage is being done and how... and I don't see any medical evidence that 1 slice of bread is doing less damage than 1 loaf... it may or it may not but noone seems to be able to answer this question. What I know for myself is I don't feel any worse for eating a whole loaf than I do from eating a single breadcrumb. That doesn't mean the damage is not worse but neither does it disprove it.

What I see plenty of evidence for is that peripheral diseases are not the product of a single dose but of extended periods of stressing the body. Adrenal impairment is not triggered by eating a single slice of bread but by years of stressing the gland. Cancer is not from a single crumb but the repeated and prolonged enforced cell regeneration of the villi. Yes a single cigarette can give you cancer but the chances against it are billions to one. If you don't somke it can still make you ill but the chance of it doiung any long term damage is almost zero.

From all the evidence I can see the biggest dangers of gluten are prolonged exposure. I have to accept I live in a world where being 100% gluten-free is not possible. From time to time I will be accidentally glutened.

I don't go out EVER and think "oh I'll see what happens" if I don't feel safe I will not eat but even so accidents will happen. I love eating out but I minimise this because of the risks, I don't include anything in my everyday diet that introduces a risk but it is simply not possible to spend 3 weeks on vacation eating out without taking risks.

I do not go out and think "ooh if I get glutened I can have pizza tomorrow" I make very effort in every case not to get glutened. I could elect not to go on vacation but then I'm no longer living... I'm existing.

What I see NO EVIDENCE for whatsoever is that 2-3 days of glutening does ANYMORE damage than being accidentally glutened by a single breadcrumb, some CC or accidentally sipping someones beer on a regular basis.

If I get glutened form a breadcrumb I will be ill for 5-6 weeks with the severity and frequency gradually subsiding over this period.

If I get glutened by a whole loaf I will be ill for the same period with the same pattern of diminishing frequency and severity indeed its an alomost exponential pattern... most toxins follow the same pattern whereby they follow a half-life of expulsion each 50% of what remaining taking the same time to be expelled.

In my opinion I am less likely to suffer long term complications from a heavy glutening for 2-3 days once or twice a year than people who take chances on a regualr basis such as eating McDonalds fries...

All the available evidence points towards the long term damage being cumulative over time and being constantly or near constantly glutened so taking a risk every week eating out is likely to mean I'm rarely ever 100% gluten-free... if I get caught out by CC or some contamination only once every 6 weeks my body is ALWAYS fighting and stressing organs and glands.. If I get caught out 1-2 a year my body has a whole load of rest time to recover, my immune system and organs can settle into doing their normal job without being constantly stressed etc.

Of course I could try and only get CC's the same amount, probably it would be BETTER but by how much...????

My opinion having looked at the evidence is that 1-2 episodes a year or 2-3 days presents a much much lower risk than 9-10 episodes a year by taking risks like eating out or sharing a kitchen ....

Plenty people here share kitchens and get ill... plenty eat fast food on a regular basis where contamination is always a risk. Some people even use the same utensils, drink whisky, use shampoo's or take other risks on a regular basis...

It is my considered opinion that these people are risking their long term health far more than someone who eats gluten for 2-3 days only per year.

I truly do not think you should be telling others it is ok.

I didn't I said "I don't recommend this... " in which way is this telling people its OK?

There are plenty of threads here about McDo's fries, grain alcohol and spirits in general, low gluten wafers which will lead people to believe a little on a regular basis is OK. There are several posts where are simply outright lies such as all distilled alcohol is OK... (which considering some companies actualy say its not because they use wheat derived coloring doesn't even make this a debateable subject... yet they repeat time after time the same old lies and noone ever tells them I truly do not think you should be telling others it is ok. indeed it seems general practice here that they can answer a question with a factually incorrect statement and those whom disagree (by stateing facts and posting links to them) are told not to disagree.... and indeed these people then play a game of replying to every question on alchohol with "All distilled alcohol is safe", refuse to acknoweldge the links safe in the knowledge oif anyone posts contradictory factual information they will be told off. Hence my long absence from this board and its looking like another one now thank-you. (Would you like me to list names?)

[darlindeb25]

it is simply not possible to spend 3 weeks on vacation eating out without taking risks. We most certainly can go on a 3 week vacation and eat without taking risks. It's up to you to feed yourself. I have been gluten free for 5 1/2 years and have never been anywhere that I could not find something to eat that would not gluten me. To be honest, if I was to get glutened while on vacation, it would ruin my vacation. The decision is yours to make, you either choose to eat gluten free or you choose not to worry about it.

You actually sound like you are going through withdrawal, just as an alcoholic WANTS to drink, you want to eat gluten. When you decide you truly want to be healthy, then you will realize you can go through life without being glutened. Accidental glutening is something we must be careful of, yet eating it on purpose is up to us.

What I see NO EVIDENCE for whatsoever is that 2-3 days of glutening does ANYMORE damage than being accidentally glutened by a single breadcrumb, some CC or accidentally sipping someones beer on a regular basis.There is no evidence to the contrary either. We do not know enough about celiac disease yet to know how much damage is caused by what. Just because the glutening symptons finally go away does not mean further damage has not been done.

We all must remember, if we do not take care of ourselves, no one will!

[JerryK]

It was real for me. I got the shakes, the sweats, and was really anxious. It was miserable. The first few days were the worst. It gradually subsided after that. I ended up calling my doctor about it because it was so bad, and the nurse said the withdrawal period is about 2 weeks.

Hmmmm, this was exactly what it felt like to me. I thought it was my imagination. Weird...who would've thought?

[Lisa]

perhaps I should have bolded "I'm not recommending this "

True but then it depends on what you mean by each time...

Considerable medical opinion (which I disagree with) recommends gluten challenges of months... I don't see how this is justified... but its still the majority of medical opinion... just because you are eating gluten for a biopsy doesn't change any of this...

The bottom line comes down to what damage is being done and how... and I don't see any medical evidence that 1 slice of bread is doing less damage than 1 loaf... it may or it may not but noone seems to be able to answer this question. What I know for myself is I don't feel any worse for eating a whole loaf than I do from eating a single breadcrumb. That doesn't mean the damage is not worse but neither does it disprove it.

What I see plenty of evidence for is that peripheral diseases are not the product of a single dose but of extended periods of stressing the body. Adrenal impairment is not triggered by eating a single slice of bread but by years of stressing the gland. Cancer is not from a single crumb but the repeated and prolonged enforced cell regeneration of the villi. Yes a single cigarette can give you cancer but the chances against it are billions to one. If you don't somke it can still make you ill but the chance of it doiung any long term damage is almost zero.

From all the evidence I can see the biggest dangers of gluten are prolonged exposure. I have to accept I live in a world where being 100% gluten-free is not possible. From time to time I will be accidentally glutened.

I don't go out EVER and think "oh I'll see what happens" if I don't feel safe I will not eat but even so accidents will happen. I love eating out but I minimise this because of the risks, I don't include anything in my everyday diet that introduces a risk but it is simply not possible to spend 3 weeks on vacation eating out without taking risks.

I do not go out and think "ooh if I get glutened I can have pizza tomorrow" I make very effort in every case not to get glutened. I could elect not to go on vacation but then I'm no longer living... I'm existing.

What I see NO EVIDENCE for whatsoever is that 2-3 days of glutening does ANYMORE damage than being accidentally glutened by a single breadcrumb, some CC or accidentally sipping someones beer on a regular basis.

If I get glutened form a breadcrumb I will be ill for 5-6 weeks with the severity and frequency gradually subsiding over this period.

If I get glutened by a whole loaf I will be ill for the same period with the same pattern of diminishing frequency and severity indeed its an alomost exponential pattern... most toxins follow the same pattern whereby they follow a half-life of expulsion each 50% of what remaining taking the same time to be expelled.

In my opinion I am less likely to suffer long term complications from a heavy glutening for 2-3 days once or twice a year than people who take chances on a regualr basis such as eating McDonalds fries...

All the available evidence points towards the long term damage being cumulative over time and being constantly or near constantly glutened so taking a risk every week eating out is likely to mean I'm rarely ever 100% gluten-free... if I get caught out by CC or some contamination only once every 6 weeks my body is ALWAYS fighting and stressing organs and glands.. If I get caught out 1-2 a year my body has a whole load of rest time to recover, my immune system and organs can settle into doing their normal job without being constantly stressed etc.

Of course I could try and only get CC's the same amount, probably it would be BETTER but by how much...????

My opinion having looked at the evidence is that 1-2 episodes a year or 2-3 days presents a much much lower risk than 9-10 episodes a year by taking risks like eating out or sharing a kitchen ....

Plenty people here share kitchens and get ill... plenty eat fast food on a regular basis where contamination is always a risk. Some people even use the same utensils, drink whisky, use shampoo's or take other risks on a regular basis...

It is my considered opinion that these people are risking their long term health far more than someone who eats gluten for 2-3 days only per year.

I didn't I said "I don't recommend this... " in which way is this telling people its OK?

There are plenty of threads here about McDo's fries, grain alcohol and spirits in general, low gluten wafers which will lead people to believe a little on a regular basis is OK. There are several posts where are simply outright lies such as all distilled alcohol is OK... (which considering some companies actualy say its not because they use wheat derived coloring doesn't even make this a debateable subject... yet they repeat time after time the same old lies and noone ever tells them I truly do not think you should be telling others it is ok. indeed it seems general practice here that they can answer a question with a factually incorrect statement and those whom disagree (by stateing facts and posting links to them) are told not to disagree.... and indeed these people then play a game of replying to every question on alchohol with "All distilled alcohol is safe", refuse to acknoweldge the links safe in the knowledge oif anyone posts contradictory factual information they will be told off. Hence my long absence from this board and its looking like another one now thank-you. (Would you like me to list names?)

"(Would you like me to list names?)", I believe you have done that in the past.

[darlindeb25]

Well Jerry, the best thing is to recognize what is happening and not let it get the best of ya. You are doing so well, keep at it--kk

[gfp]

it is simply not possible to spend 3 weeks on vacation eating out without taking risks. We most certainly can go on a 3 week vacation and eat without taking risks.

The only way to not take risks is to go self catering and take or buy new your own pots, pans and utensils...

I actually do this but its not possible everywhere so I have to either limit WHERE I vacation or whay I do.

My last trip to Italy we camped half of the time simply so I could be safe... I ate exclusively in gluten-free resto's which were certified by the Italian Celiac society for the 1st two weeks or cooked all my own food in my own pans washed with my own stuff and cooked using my own utensils all flown into Italy or purchased locally specifically.

I still got glutened ...... just as many people here have been glutened using food labelled gluten-free because there is no such thing as zero risk other than eating naturally packaged guaranteed gluten-free food. By naturally packaged I mean for instance a carrot has peel and so even if its been CC'd somehow if you wash it then peel it the risk is so near nothing as to not matter but even meat bought from a butcher etc. can be CC'd.

It's up to you to feed yourself. I have been gluten free for 5 1/2 years and have never been anywhere that I could not find something to eat that would not gluten me. To be honest, if I was to get glutened while on vacation, it would ruin my vacation. The decision is yours to make, you either choose to eat gluten free or you choose not to worry about it.

IMHO you have a choice, let it ruin your vacation or not. After I had been glutened this could have ruined my vacation and it cost me money. I had booked into some places which were well out of the way and paid deposits but I was unable to go because the train/bus ride wasn't possible.

I did not choose to be glutened, I took every possible precaution not to get glutened and probably a lot more precautions than most people here take on a daily basis.

I suspect I know where it happened but I couldn't say for sure... I react to the smallest amount of CC violently..

It could have been a salad in a tratoria but it could equally have been a gluten-free pizza that somehow touched a non gluten-free one while being carried....or the bottom of a plate which had touched some non gluten-free flour????

At this point I could have chosen many things, I could have cut short my vacation and flown home, I could have not eaten anything at all for 3 days until I got home or I could try and pull something positive out of the holiday...

I have had gluten free pizza that is every bit as good as a pizza full of gluten.

With respect I take it you have never eaten a real Napolitan Pizza in Naples....

You actually sound like you are going through withdrawal, just as an alcoholic WANTS to drink, you want to eat gluten. When you decide you truly want to be healthy, then you will realize you can go through life without being glutened. Accidental glutening is something we must be careful of, yet eating it on purpose is up to us.

Erm not at all.... I spend almost everyday of the year being as careful as possible, I turn down invitations and I quit my job because it involved eating out on a regualr basis and travel to places where gluten-free was so risky.

"Eating it on purpose" can encompass many things... many many people here are willing to risk prepared gluten-free food but I don't see you telling them they shouldn't eat prepared food? Many people chose to eat for instance McDo fries and again I don't see you telling them they should not say this... whenever I comment on McDo's fries I say that its a risk and people have to make up thier own mind, personally I would not take the risk.

Once glutened you have a whole set of choices.... one of which is no change .. but as you got glutened you were already taking a finite risk. People on average eat 3 meals a day, 365 days a year ... which is 1095 meals a year excluding snacks, beverages etc. Even if each meal only has a 1:1000 chance of glutening you on average this means on average you will still be glutened once a year. If you include beverages like a cup of coffee then this is even higher.(on my recent Australia visit I ordered a latte and a friend actually spotted the spoon was resting on a cookie behind my cup I hadn't seen (this was after verifying it was real milk and not contaminated) - how close was that! I actually just ordered another coffee "without cookie" and left the other cup).. short of being a hermit you can't escape these risks completely.... however ....

What I see NO EVIDENCE for whatsoever is that 2-3 days of glutening does ANYMORE damage than being accidentally glutened by a single breadcrumb, some CC or accidentally sipping someones beer on a regular basis.

Yes there is ... of the parts of celiac we do understand and its peripheral diseases the actual mechanisms of the damage point to long term glutening. The first evidence shopuld be self evident... that is that you can't get a positive biopsy after being gluten-free for 3 years by eating any amount of gluten for 1 day.... you could stuff yourself until you burst for a day and you would not get enough villous atrophy to show up on a biopsy... even 1 week is unlikely and the commonly accepted "safe" (I use that term in a bad sense) minimum to get a positive biopsy is 3 months.

Of all of the related peripheral diseases which are much more life threatening/shortening than celiac disease itself I can't think of any which are not due to the prolonged effects. The only immediately life threatening aspect of a glutening is dedydration from D.... and this is easily preventable.

This is very true but at the same time I choose to go skiing... further to this I chose to ski off-piste and further to this I chose to ski off-piste in areas where there is officially no rescue service.

I wear the correct equipment including a locator, I avoid avalanche risks yet it is not without risks.

I make decisions to minimise these risks but balance this with my enjoyment of the vacation.

I get no pleasure from skiing on-piste its pointless to me except to develop technique...

This is what I call living... not skiing some run I don't even need to fasten my boots.

Skiing is inherently risky but so is driving, working as a lumberjack or power worker ... and most of the jobs I have done my entire life. I enjoy skiing ... I'm not going to stop because its risky.

I also enjoy eating out, especially when in other countries and tasting the best they can offer. It is inherently risky but I love Italy, genuine Italian food and wines etc. Much as its entirely possible to live off fresh uncooked vegetables and tinned tuna for a month it is not my idea of a vacation....

When I am on my death bed considering what I did in life I do not want it to be full of regrets for things I wanted to do but didn't.

We have to judge each thing seperately.....

When I was younger I used to do competitive mountain biking, after loosing friends I decided the risk was too high. It became apparent that if I continued to race and practice competitively I was going to kill myself sooner or later. I gave up semi-pro kick boxing for similar reasons although being able to actually sit a final without a whole lot of broken bones and fractured hand played a part too. I had a friend in my MSc. who skied before her finals and broke her back and had to take her finals in traction...

The reason I gave up my job was two fold, firstly I lost too many friends and was shot at too many times but an equal reason was that it wasn't possible to avoid being glutened while working in the field and that this was happening on a regular basis without recovery inbetween.

I have thought about and considered the condition and risks very carefully....

I am not gluten free because I get C or D, I am not gluten-free because I am worried about what are actually quite trivial cramps - I am gluten-free because of the long term health risks associated with celiac disease.

If celiac disease was just some mild cramps (I consider anything less than the pain of breaking an arm or leg trivial) and D then I would probably not be gluten-free....

I am gluten-free because of the long term health risks....

Let me make it quite clear ... I would not under ANY circumstances do a gluten challenge.... the only exception might be for research but that would be very carefully considered as to any direct benefits of that research and me for some reason or another being a good candidate.

However from all the research into peripheral diseases associated with celiac disease I have looked into long term exposure presents a far far greater risk than 2-3 days of glutening. Not by a factor of 1 or 10 but by factors of thousands...

The best thing to do if you are glutened is obviously to try and get gluten-free as soon as possible however the finite risks associated with 2-3 days compared to a single meal are far far less than those associated with taking a small dose over a long time... they are not zero but they are trivial compared to long term exposure...

I spent nearly 30 yrs eating gluten on a daily basis, my long term prognosis is going to be far more influenced by this than 1-2 episodes a year....

[Electra]

What I see NO EVIDENCE for whatsoever is that 2-3 days of glutening does ANYMORE damage than being accidentally glutened by a single breadcrumb, some CC or accidentally sipping someones beer on a regular basis.

Just wanted to say that there are a lot of us on this board who are living proof that eating gluten for 2-3 days is so much worse then just eating one breadcrumb. If I am accidentally glutened by something hidden and small I do HAVE damage. My fingertips tingle which is causeing nerve damage every single time I feel it. If I get glutened for 2-3 days WOW watch out my entire bottom half of my right leg and foot, my bottom half of my right arm and hand, and my fingers prickle, go numb, burn, and feel freezing constantly. This means that there is major nerve damage happening that will probably NEVER be repaired, so that is proof enough for me. I know of many others on this board that are living proof as well.

I'm not saying that you have the same effects, and if you are willing to risk it then that's fine with me, but I (myself) WOULD never say that having one breadcrumb is equivalent to eating gluten for 2-3 days, because my body has proven otherwise!!

[Mtndog]

Could we please get back on topic? I believe Jerry was asking about gluten withdrawal. If you want to debate about what's safe and not safe in terms of CC and eating gluten 2-3 times a year, please do it through PM's or start another thread. Thanks.

[Electra]

Could we please get back on topic? I believe Jerry was asking about gluten withdrawal. If you want to debate about what's safe and not safe in terms of CC and eating gluten 2-3 times a year, please do it through PM's or start another thread. Thanks.

You are right on that one, but we also have a duty as board members to make sure that we give factual information. If we have experiences that contradict statement that could be detrimental to the the health of others here then we have a duty to state those and make sure that both sides are heard.

If Jerry has a problem with what is being posted here, then it's his reaponsability to let us know that and no one elses!! That's just my opinion though, so take it for what it's worth!!

[Canadian Karen]

it is simply not possible to spend 3 weeks on vacation eating out without taking risks. We most certainly can go on a 3 week vacation and eat without taking risks. It's up to you to feed yourself. I have been gluten free for 5 1/2 years and have never been anywhere that I could not find something to eat that would not gluten me.

Well, maybe in a perfect gluten-free world............ I can't imagine being ANYWHERE for three weeks, other than my own home, where I would NOT get accidentally glutened somehow.....

I think the difference here is "taking risks". Going on the three week vacation is in itself a risk.... I can't imagine eating "out" for three weeks straight without being cross-contaminated, no matter HOW careful I am.....

[Mtndog]

You are right on that one, but we also have a duty as board members to make sure that we give factual information. If we have experiences that contradict statement that could be detrimental to the the health of others here then we have a duty to state those and make sure that both sides are heard.

If Jerry has a problem with what is being posted here, then it's his reaponsability to let us know that and no one elses!! That's just my opinion though, so take it for what it's worth!!

You are correct, but I'm just trying to do my job as a moderator.

[jerseyangel]

If Jerry has a problem with what is being posted here, then it's his reaponsability to let us know that and no one elses!! That's just my opinion though, so take it for what it's worth!!

Mtndog is a board moderator and is well within her right (and her duty to this board) to request that everyone stay on topic.

[gfp]

You are correct, but I'm just trying to do my job as a moderator.

Respectfully, I was attacked in public while posting about gluten withdrawal.

Also I agree with elctra, even if she doesn't agree with my reasoning that we do have some duty to make sure factual evidence is presented.

One of the main reasons for my long absenses is because this was not happening and the first person answering a topic was not contradicted, factual evidence and direct errors were ignored.

Also I'd like to ask Electra if this is DURING or AFTER ... this being because is it a direct consequence or withdrawal consequence?

[Jestgar]

So anyway...

I've never had an issue with gluten withdrawal, but seeing as how these reactions keep changing over time, I'm curious if someday I might (after an accidental glutening). I also wonder if some people feel that sometimes they have a withdrawal response, and other times not.

[Jestgar]

I'd also like to publicly support gfp. I think that he clearly identifies his opinions as opinions, not fact, and he does try to support everything he says with either a personal story or research.

Having differing opinions I think makes this a better board, even though it does cause dissension sometimes.

[Mtndog]

Respectfully, I was attacked in public while posting about gluten withdrawal.

Also I agree with elctra, even if she doesn't agree with my reasoning that we do have some duty to make sure factual evidence is presented.

One of the main reasons for my long absenses is because this was not happening and the first person answering a topic was not contradicted, factual evidence and direct errors were ignored.

Also I'd like to ask Electra if this is DURING or AFTER ... this being because is it a direct consequence or withdrawal consequence?

Correct- we do have a duty to present the facts however, I have yet to meet anyone who had ALL the facts on celiac. We can speak from experience and what we know from medical literature (which has its own flaws). Waxing philisophical about gluten cc versus eating a slice of bread vs skiing off piste really doesn't do anyone any good.

[JerryK]

One of the things I've found so refreshing about this board is that the members are so very supportive of each other. Although I haven't been here long enough to understand the history here

this thread has made me uncomfortable.

What I was really hoping to discover is were there others like me who felt a bit of withdrawal symptoms after stopping gluten....things like perhaps a little more jittery...anxiety...insomnia etc...

Since we know that gluten can have quite a sedative effect on folks....

Thanks, j