Gluten Withdrawal

[Jestgar 716]

Jerry, please don't be distressed about the minor bickering that goes on. With so many people involved there are going to be personality differences.

I think that everyone is very supportive of each other and when someone is having any kind of personal crisis I believe that everyone rallys around that person.

It's the general knowledge contained in all the members of this forum that has allowed us all to be well enough to be able to bicker.

I hope that everyone remembers this and also that all we know of each other is what we type. It's not worth being angry at typed words.

[darlindeb25 5]

Jerry, I am sorry that you feel uncomfortable now. The topic was gluten withdrawal and I did offer you answers more than once, very clear and good answers.

Gpf hijacked the thread with his attitude and I never attacked him, I simply asked him not to tell others it is ok to eat gluten and no matter what he says now, he did say, "what difference does a few days make?" It makes a big difference. Also, he did say he intentionally ate gluten pizza, intentionally!

Gpf, I too ate gluten for more years than you have, I am 51 now, I was 45 when I went gluten-free and I had been sick for years and years by that time. I do know the damage that "a little gluten" has done to me. I have had times when I was accidentally glutened, times when I took a chance on kisses from grandbabies, kissing my sweetie, chances at my job, eating at a friends and on and on. BUT, NO TIME HAVE I EVER INTENTIONALLY PUT GLUTEN IN MY MOUTH. I have not ever had pizza from a foreign country and do not ever desire to do so. I KNOW I CANNOT EAT GLUTEN--never again, for any reason and that is the message we need to get across to others.

Also, yes, moderators have rights, just as members do. We have a right to support our opinions and just because a topic gets heated does not mean it needs to stop. We have things to say and we need to say them and this forum is for us to use, isn't it? When another member says something that could be very detrimental to others, it needs to be discussed. If you as moderators allow someone like gpf to post what he did, then you need to let others respond, it's only fair. I, for one do not want to see a newbie read a post like his and go away thinking it's ok to eat gluten now and again.

In almost 6 yrs I have never, ever intentionally eaten anything containing gluten and that is as it should be for all of us. Take the disease seriously, please.

[Electra 0]

One of the things I've found so refreshing about this board is that the members are so very supportive of each other. Although I haven't been here long enough to understand the history here

this thread has made me uncomfortable.

What I was really hoping to discover is were there others like me who felt a bit of withdrawal symptoms after stopping gluten....things like perhaps a little more jittery...anxiety...insomnia etc...

Since we know that gluten can have quite a sedative effect on folks....

Thanks, j

Jerry, thanks so much for being honest and stating what you feel. I apologize for not staying on subject ;-)!! When I first went off gluten I had a full week of shakes, jitters, tremmers, not being able to focus, sweats, and feelings of being freezing. If I were to describe my symptoms I would say they seemed to me like what I've seen on TV when people come off from drugs like CRACK. I don't know for sure because I have never been on crack but I had some definite withdrawl symptoms. I don't have them as much now, but when I get accidentally glutened I do notice for at least a day I get hysterically depressed and can't be reasoned with and then I'm just not myself for about a week. All of the sudden I come out of it like I never even had a problem. It's the weirdest thing and If I hadn't experienced it myslef I'd probably think others were crazy for thinking this was possible just from being accidentally contaminated with a food lol!!

I also have major food cravings for about 2 weeks after being glutened. I just can't seem to stop eating. It's like I just crave stuff all day long lol!!

It's definitely no fun in my opinion!!

[Canadian Karen 9]

I do believe that gfp said clearly and boldly that "he does not recommend it".... He is simply stating that when he gets glutened, based on the severity of the glutening and possibly the violent nature of his body's response, IN HIS CASE he has found that the best way HIS body can deal with it is to take a few days to "wean off" of it, so to speak. Kind of like letting his system down gently, instead of with a crash......

He is by no means condoning INTENTIONALLY glutening, he is just telling others how he deals with it in his own way, what works for him. He is not saying "It's okay to do this" or "It's safe to do it this way", he verly clearly had at the very beginning HE DOES NOT RECOMMEND IT.

Perhaps I am thinking from personal experience here: My dad used to be (for most of his life) a binge alcoholic. Alcoholism has pretty well destroyed his life, relationships with his children, marriage to my mother, the list goes on and on....... When my dad was off alcohol, but fell off the wagon and went on a binge, the easiest way for him to get back off alcohol was through the "weaning" process. Cold turkey would put him into the DDT's so bad, he could very easily have died..... Just trying to give an analogy that would put this into perspective.....

Karen

[Jestgar 716]

Perhaps I am thinking from personal experience here:

Also totally OT.

I think Karen's last statement is really the basis of the disagreements. I think that everyone interprets what they see and hear and experience through the filters of their own lives. I interpreted gfp's statement basically the same as Karen. Probably because I've had similar experiences. But I also understand Deb's perspective of "never never do this" again because I've had experiences where a little bit puts me over the edge.

While I realize that it may be disconcerting for a newbie, I think that ultimately having divergent opinions is better, again because the newbie will interpret the response through his/her own filters. What one person says may be inconsequential, but another's statement may totally hit home.

[Canadian Karen 9]

Also totally OT.

I think Karen's last statement is really the basis of the disagreements. I think that everyone interprets what they see and hear and experience through the filters of their own lives. I interpreted gfp's statement basically the same as Karen. Probably because I've had similar experiences. But I also understand Deb's perspective of "never never do this" again because I've had experiences where a little bit puts me over the edge.

While I realize that it may be disconcerting for a newbie, I think that ultimately having divergent opinions is better, again because the newbie will interpret the response through his/her own filters. What one person says may be inconsequential, but another's statement may totally hit home.

Couldn't have said it better myself......

[gfp 0]

I do believe that gfp said clearly and boldly that "he does not recommend it".... He is simply stating that when he gets glutened, based on the severity of the glutening and possibly the violent nature of his body's response, IN HIS CASE he has found that the best way HIS body can deal with it is to take a few days to "wean off" of it, so to speak. Kind of like letting his system down gently, instead of with a crash......

He is by no means condoning INTENTIONALLY glutening, he is just telling others how he deals with it in his own way, what works for him. He is not saying "It's okay to do this" or "It's safe to do it this way", he verly clearly had at the very beginning HE DOES NOT RECOMMEND IT.

Perhaps I am thinking from personal experience here: My dad used to be (for most of his life) a binge alcoholic. Alcoholism has pretty well destroyed his life, relationships with his children, marriage to my mother, the list goes on and on....... When my dad was off alcohol, but fell off the wagon and went on a binge, the easiest way for him to get back off alcohol was through the "weaning" process. Cold turkey would put him into the DDT's so bad, he could very easily have died..... Just trying to give an analogy that would put this into perspective.....

Karen

Karen, I agreed with your earlier statement but didn't say so just to try and be diplomatic which isn't my strong point.

However this is so spot on....I was relating my experiences, its not even that I do this every time I accidentally get glutened either, but it has provided me with insights into withdrawal which was the point of my first post on the subject.... and as your point out I started by saying "I don't recommend this but...."

Sorry to everyone but I started out by saying "I don't recommend this but...." because my whole experience is based on this.... I don't think I should have to defend myself for being honest.... I personally would have a huge problem to try and present the information I found and pretend I came by it any other way, and as Karen says I prefaced the whole post by that disclaimer..... "please kids, don't do this at home" ... perhaps I could have bolded it? Perhaps a large font size? 20/20 hindsight is wonderful but I certainly didn't expect to be attacked for just being honest...

I can't help that I discovered or I believe to have discovered certain things about gluten withdrawal from this, but to me presenting it any other way than complate honesty is not possible..... its either that or nothing ....

I guess perhaps I should have said nothing? Perhaps its like the police stuimbling over evidence that can't be presented in court? Whoah we entered the wrong appartment but their's 50 lbs on heroine here.... but lets pretend we didn't find it ? but I am not like that... I can't be like that.... and I think its really mean for people to attack me over just being honest.

and for me its not the alcoholism thiog though I appreciate why... its making the most of the end of my vacation... I dreads to admit but faced with 3 days of not eating on route to Australia I willingly ate gluten too.

I was sick as a pig, I had to deal with it for the whole vacation (I lost about 20lbs I didn't need to) but in this case I went straight back gluten-free.... I thought I could manage 3 days without eating and I was wrong.... but what else should I have done? i was at the point of being hypoglycemic, I thought I could find peanuts but Air Vietname has wheat noodles... and pretzels??? Should I go into a coma, should I ask for the flight to be grounded and pay millions or should I accept I screwed up and deal with it?

Short of not leaving home and preparing ALL my own meals I have to accept I take a risk... I guess no different from presing Add Reply right now?

[Mtndog 19]

I dreads to admit but faced with 3 days of not eating on route to Australia I willingly ate gluten too.

I was sick as a pig, I had to deal with it for the whole vacation (I lost about 20lbs I didn't need to) but in this case I went straight back gluten-free.... I thought I could manage 3 days without eating and I was wrong.... but what else should I have done? i was at the point of being hypoglycemic, I thought I could find peanuts but Air Vietname has wheat noodles... and pretzels??? Should I go into a coma, should I ask for the flight to be grounded and pay millions or should I accept I screwed up and deal with it?

Short of not leaving home and preparing ALL my own meals I have to accept I take a risk... I guess no different from presing Add Reply right now?

Are you kidding me? Faced without eating for three days, I'd eat gluten too! Yes- you would pay (as you did) but you can only go so long without food.

It makes sense that this was how you learned about gluten withdrawal, etc.

Honestly, I am similar to you in that I'd rather take the occasional risk of CC and enjoy my life than NEVER eat out, NEVER travel and live in a bubble. I know I couldn't do that- that's letting celiac control your life. I look at myself as someone who HAS celiac. Not a celiac.

Right now I'm sick from gluten because I went out to eat to celebrate a clear mammogram/ultrasound after a breast lumo was found. Do I regret it? Yes and no. I regret that I was dumb enough to go back to this particular place when I should have known better, but I don't regret the relief and celebration I had.

I haven't been in a situation where I HAD to eat gluten and I hope I never am. I have also never gone through gluten withdrawal as I don't think my body ever wanted the stuff to begin with.

[chocolatelover 0]

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is CC? It's been mentioned several times in this thread (which, by the way, has been a fascinating read).

So what does it mean that I am feeling nothing but great after having been gluten free for--woo hoo--6 whole days (that was a sarcastic woo hoo, by the way)? It took a couple of days, but now that I'm off dairy as well, I feel great. I am having none of my former symptoms to speak of, my energy is endless, my mood almost euphoric...and none of the withdrawl symptoms either. Does it mean anything at all? Does it mean that they will soon come and I just haven't been off gluten long enough to experience any of them?

[Mtndog 19]

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is CC? It's been mentioned several times in this thread (which, by the way, has been a fascinating read).

So what does it mean that I am feeling nothing but great after having been gluten free for--woo hoo--6 whole days (that was a sarcastic woo hoo, by the way)? It took a couple of days, but now that I'm off dairy as well, I feel great. I am having none of my former symptoms to speak of, my energy is endless, my mood almost euphoric...and none of the withdrawl symptoms either. Does it mean anything at all? Does it mean that they will soon come and I just haven't been off gluten long enough to experience any of them?

OOps- sorry. Glad you piped up and asked. CC means cross-contamination as in what you're eating is actually gluten-free but somewhere in the process of being prepared it came in contact with gluten. For example, I loved Blue Diamond Nut Thins but I got sick from them because they are processed on the same lines as products containing gluten. Everyone has a different threshold- I'm super-sensitive.

I experienced NO withdrawal symptoms at all. Maybe your body is just PSYCHED to be rid of the stuff! I had gradually weeded stuff out before officially going gluten free. Used to love pancakes, beer, etc. But stopped ordering pancakes because they felt like they sat in my stomach for days. Switched alcohol because 2 beers started meaning a 4 day hangover. My body couldn't wait to get rid of it. I had no withdrawal at all.

I'm GLAD you're feeling great!

[blueeyedmanda 7]

I know it was all emotional for me, very down because I couldn't eat like everyone else and at first I had no ambition to try anything new or cook. We fell into a fast food rut in those days. We are so much more into healthy eating now a days and I am no longer depressing over gluten!!!! It was a long fought battle let me tell you!

[gfp 0]

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is CC? It's been mentioned several times in this thread (which, by the way, has been a fascinating read).

So what does it mean that I am feeling nothing but great after having been gluten free for--woo hoo--6 whole days (that was a sarcastic woo hoo, by the way)? It took a couple of days, but now that I'm off dairy as well, I feel great. I am having none of my former symptoms to speak of, my energy is endless, my mood almost euphoric...and none of the withdrawl symptoms either. Does it mean anything at all? Does it mean that they will soon come and I just haven't been off gluten long enough to experience any of them?

Oops we switch to a secret language when n00bies are around We can't say its really secret ....

Oh go-on then Cross Contamination.... its a short couple of words but encompasses 90% of the risks when you are trying as hard as you can....(take me with a pinch of salt on this, I get all emotional over this subject)

Anyway, its really important but we covered it lots, indeed so much you'll probably only get half a response now try doing a quick search... if I try and tell you now, (at 4AM after a night out) I'm sure to forget some sources....I actually have a webpage just on this subject but board rules prevent me posting it... so .....

You can start it in the field where a few wheat stalks are present in a corn field because they were grown the year before...

You can say the corn was contiminated in the hoppers used to store it or the bulk transport contracted to deliver it.

Then it can be CC'd in the grinding and milling process or CC'd in the mill then CC'd in the next transport to where its made into tortilla...

I call all these up to here "upstream CC" but that's just me so forget it, it'll never catch on but anyway what I call "downstream CC" (nah that'll never catch on either.).. is once the initial prduct is made (in this case a tortilla) after this the tortilla might be handled by a chef who just touched flour = CC , or dropped onto a surface with a trace of flour CC or the filling could have contacted gluten..or it might be oven cooked and touch a wheat one or deepfried (mmmm) as a chimichanga in oil that has contained gluten.... then finally the plate or knife and fork

As you can see we use it like "thing" is used .... when we don't have a special name for getting glutened we say CC, I say it lots ....

but it doesn't mean anything specific ... anyway, its usually a verb but very flexible.... where cross is used as an auxilary verb and contamination as the ...???? ... did I just write that? Wow I should sleep .. but if you have time try searching for CC or cross contamination .... its a big subject and really important.

[Canadian Karen 9]

Steve, you need to go to bed!!!

G'Night....

[chocolatelover 0]

Ok, had no idea how totally loaded those 2 little letters were. Crap. So how do you manage not to get CC'd when you are the only one in the family with gluten issues and you still have to cook for the rest of the family??

PS--thanks for letting me in on the secret

[gfp 0]

Ok, had no idea how totally loaded those 2 little letters were. Crap. So how do you manage not to get CC'd when you are the only one in the family with gluten issues and you still have to cook for the rest of the family??

PS--thanks for letting me in on the secret

The simplest, safest and best is not to cook anything with gluten it it. Many of us find it easiest (for me its just me and my girlfriend usually and I cook 90% of the time anyway, not just the gluten-free thing) to have no gluten in the kitchen at all. On the very rare occasision my girlfreind gets cookies etc. (presents etc.) they are kept ina plastic ziplock inside a special tupperware container that has a big skull and crossbones (well its meant to be I don't draw to good) ...

Really big things to watch are toasters, these are almost a dead cert CC .. but accidentally using the same utensils etc.

When I was first diagnosed I used to try and manage in a mixed kitchen but I had so many accidents and even if you get glutened elsewhere you can never say so I went 100% gluten-free. Seperate conserves and anything that gets a spoon dipped in are really a good start.

Many people have done like I did, some have seperate areas ... etc. its all down to you...

Getting active support of your family is really important in this. When you adapt what you cook and what ingredients you start from its really not so easy to tell its gluten free. Obviously pasta etc. you are using gluten-free pasta but many meals are pretty much gluten free except for things you add that have perfectly good alternatives ... and the more back to basics you go the easier it is and the safer.

[darlindeb25 5]

Chocolatelover, you have to use special measures to be sure and the family needs to help. They need to know which foods they must be careful with. In the beginning, I still had 2 kids at home and a 3rd staying with us for a time. I labeled things, like a dish of margarine would have "mom" written on it. They knew they could use it, but they could never double dip in it. When I cooked things like soup, it never contained anything with gluten any longer. You have to remember to always clean a surface before you use it, simple things we do not normally think of. In time, it becomes 2nd nature.

Jerry's original question was about withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal really has nothing to do with being glutened, after you have been gluten-free for some time. Withdrawal is our immediate reaction to going gluten free in the beginning. Just as an alcoholic needs a drink, some of us feel we need gluten. It's a feeling we have to fight and withdrawal can cause several reactions. We are addicted to gluten and any time you give up an addiction, you will have withdrawal of some sort. It has been almost 6 years for me now and I can't recall anything rough happening to me. I had been so sick for so long, that I would do anything to feel better. I was taking 40mg of paxil at the time and I do recall I still had panic, so maybe added panic was my withdrawal. From the minute I gave up gluten, I never intentionally ate it again. I had been quite ill for 25 yrs by the time I went gluten free, so it was such a relief to feel human again. I was in gluten-free heaven at the time.

Now in a response to gfp (Steve) I thought I could manage 3 days without eating and I was wrong.... but what else should I have done?I feel just as you, I feel you are attacking me for my feelings. You could have prepared for the trip before leaving. You could have had food with you that we can eat. Foreign countries know more about gluten free than the US does, we all know that. The food you needed was available for you to find, it may have taken a little more effort, yet for me, it's worth the effort! You could have taken fruit with you, chips, ricecakes, things we can have. I guess it is determined by how committed you are--I absolutely would not eat gluten, that is my commitment--I would live on water for 3 days first, which can be done. Gluten is arsenic to a celiac and I was poisoned for way too many years to ever intentionally eat it again.

At a support meeting Tuesday night, a lady was telling me about flying to Florida for a visit. She took her food with her. She used frozen bags of spinach to keep her food cold, the person checking her bags was very impressed. She never eats the spinach, just keeps refreezing it for travel. Smart idea, I think.

[Canadian Karen 9]

Although I can see your point and your advice to bring your own food is a good one, I am trying to visualize myself going on a three week vacation. The amount of clothes alone would weigh me down, then on top of that three weeks worth of food consumption? I would have 20 suitcases! Also, fruit would not be an option for a three week vacation, as it would spoil. Fruit would have to be bought wherever I was at the time....

Your suggestion makes sense for a short term vacation, but three weeks worth of food is not possible....

Karen

[gfp 0]

Jerry's original question was about withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal really has nothing to do with being glutened, after you have been gluten-free for some time. Withdrawal is our immediate reaction to going gluten free in the beginning. Just as an alcoholic needs a drink, some of us feel we need gluten.

I think its both.... there is however a mechanism which is scientificly known which I mentioned in my first post on the subject and this is a real withdrawal where the body's mood regulation mchanism is damaged by the gluten.

Both gluten and casein are classed as exorphins (you can just google exorphin) which means they are external products that mimic the bodies own endorphins. The problem being that the gluten although it attaches and blocks the receptor doesn't fit properly and can damage the endorphin receptor. When the brain detects it needs a pick-me-up it releases more endorphins but when the receptors are damaged they are not taken up and the brain signals for more. Its very much like GERD where stomach acid is being continually produced except its releasing endorphins not bile. the result is that these then start floating around the body and cause a state very similar to opiates. Because we can't control our mood properly we get anxious as the adrenal receptors are functioning normally but their counter balance is not.

Now in a response to gfp (Steve) I thought I could manage 3 days without eating and I was wrong.... but what else should I have done?I feel just as you, I feel you are attacking me for my feelings. You could have prepared for the trip before leaving. You could have had food with you that we can eat. Foreign countries know more about gluten free than the US does, we all know that. The food you needed was available for you to find, it may have taken a little more effort, yet for me, it's worth the effort! You could have taken fruit with you, chips, ricecakes, things we can have. I guess it is determined by how committed you are--I absolutely would not eat gluten, that is my commitment--I would live on water for 3 days first, which can be done. Gluten is arsenic to a celiac and I was poisoned for way too many years to ever intentionally eat it again.

When I planned the trip I had planned for food, between planning the trip and going the regulations changed, no food, no drinks except water in 30ml containers or less to be taken on flights. My intention was to do the 3 days without anything but water and to be able to buy some fruit etc in Vietnam on the 24 hr stopover. The alternative was to try and get a gluten-free meal on the plane which I wouldn't trust anyway.

Foreign countries know more about gluten free than the US does, we all know that.

I'm sorry but that is hardly worth answering. I doubt you have ever been to Vietnam nor most of the 100+ countries I have visited and worked in.

[darlindeb25 5]

Your suggestion makes sense for a short term vacation, but three weeks worth of food is not possible....I was not suggesting anyone take enough food for 3 weeks, he was talking about 3 days. He said he did fine until the 3 day trip, which I may add, he did not plan for in any way. A celiac should never count on gluten-free on a flight--when planning the 3 day trip, the food should have been purchased before going. Common sense goes a long way!!!! I am 51 yrs old and raised 5 kids who never ever starved or ate spoiled food. I am smart enough to know that you could not pack enough food for 3 weeks--give me some credit.

I'm sorry but that is hardly worth answering. I doubt you have ever been to Vietnam nor most of the 100+ countries I have visited and worked in.I truly doubt you have had to deal with everything I have dealt with in my life either. I am not lucky enough to have the money to travel--I do not even have the money to travel the US, which I find has enough interesting places to see. None the less, traveling or not--common sense rules and I live with common sense as my guide.

[gfp 0]

Are you actually reading my posts???

He said he did fine until the 3 day trip, which I may add, he did not plan for in any way.

When I planned the trip I had planned for food, between planning the trip and going the regulations changed, no food, no drinks except water in 30ml containers or less to be taken on flights.

If you actually read my posts their was no 3 day trip it was a layover on route to Australia. I'm starting to wonder if its worth correcting this at all and that you are not simply being deliberately contrary. Perhaps I should just leave it to others who have read my posts ? I really don't want you to be the first person I ever add to my ignore list, I don't really like the idea of ignore lists but its getting increasingly tempting just for some peace and not being quoted out of context.

[darlindeb25 5]

especially when I've for instance been on vacation in Italy and managed not to get glutened for 2 1/2 weeks and thought screw it, Ive only 3 days left and I can eat real pizza, pasta and drink real beer..... my justificaqtion is I'm goiung to be ill for 2-6 weeks (depending on severity) so x weeks or x weeks+3 days ??? From your first post.

its making the most of the end of my vacation... I dreads to admit but faced with 3 days of not eating on route to Australia I willingly ate gluten too.

Are you actually writing your posts, you said the "3 days" were when you decided to cheat--I didn't make it up, you did--go read your own words. I read very well and I understand what I read and you don't have to block me--I will not waste anymore of my precious time on someone who has no idea what he is writing!

[gfp 0]

especially when I've for instance been on vacation in Italy and managed not to get glutened for 2 1/2 weeks and thought screw it, Ive only 3 days left and I can eat real pizza, pasta and drink real beer..... my justificaqtion is I'm goiung to be ill for 2-6 weeks (depending on severity) so x weeks or x weeks+3 days ??? From your first post.

its making the most of the end of my vacation... I dreads to admit but faced with 3 days of not eating on route to Australia I willingly ate gluten too.

Are you actually writing your posts, you said the "3 days" were when you decided to cheat--I didn't make it up, you did--go read your own words. I read very well and I understand what I read and you don't have to block me--I will not waste anymore of my precious time on someone who has no idea what he is writing!

Just stick to the truth and stop trying to bend it.. I didn't say that in my first post on the subject or this thread what I said was

http://www.glutenfreeforum.com/index.php?s...st&p=267095

What I have found when accidentally glutened is if I keep it "topped up" I don't actually crash... immediately.

followed by

I

did not choose to be glutened, I took every possible precaution not to get glutened and probably a lot more precautions than most people here take on a daily basis.

I suspect I know where it happened but I couldn't say for sure... I react to the smallest amount of CC violently..

It could have been a salad in a tratoria but it could equally have been a gluten-free pizza that somehow touched a non gluten-free one while being carried....or the bottom of a plate which had touched some non gluten-free flour????

In all these cases it has been apprent to everyone but you that this took place AFTER I WAS ACCIDENTALLY GLUTENED....

The ONLY exception was on the flight through Vietnam on route to Australia. A flight I had planned meticulously only to have the rules change on me over what I could take onto the plane or not... yet again you claim I made no plans???

It basically seems you are either obsessed with picking on me or have a problem relating the posts in order, I truly don't know which.

People often skip through posts, thats pretty normal but if you are going to launch a vitereolic attack on someone at least have the courtousy to quote the posts in order and not go out of your way to quote out of context and try and put my words into a random order.

If you somehow missed the

What I have found when accidentally glutened is if I keep it "topped up" I don't actually crash... immediately.

and the fact that everything in Italy ws based on this then go back and read it... if you are just chosing to ignore it then please get another hobby apart from misquoting my words.

[Canadian Karen 9]

I also have a concern regarding people who have recently come here looking for answers and share their ideas.

I do not want to create an atmosphere where people will look at Celiac.com as a bunch of "fanatical celiacs", that if you post anything other than the "tow the line - we would rather stick toothpicks in our eyeballs while walking through fire than touch gluten" stance, you will get jumped on. In particular, I am concerned for those who feel the need, for whatever their reason, to do a gluten challenge in order to get definitive answers..... are they going to feel comfortable enough to continue to post, or are they going to feel like "Well, if I tell those folks over at Celiac.com that I am going to intentionally ingest gluten, they will freak out".......

Karen

[darlindeb25 5]

It's sad Karen, but many people are afraid to post in this forum and not because of me. I have lots of people emailing me, asking me questions that they are afraid to ask in the forum. They are afraid of being attacked, they are afraid of how they have seen other's treated. They email me because they can tell the type of person I am by my realistic posts. There is a group here that you must agree with or you are driven away, just as Srokie felt. I am a member of many forums and never find the catty behavior in any of them like I find here. I stay here to help those who need it and I try to ignore behavior of others unless I feel it is detrimental, then I voice my opinion.

[Lisa 464]

Deb:

I have sat back and watched this whole thread from the beginning to the end.

Everyone on this board is here for the purpose to share pertinent information, asking concerning questions and seeking support due to Celiac and it's related issues.

Your general statement that the forum is "catty", does a grave disservice to the good work done here.

When it gets down to it, your argument was between you and Steve. In the end, it is nothing but a match between wills and serves no support purpose what-so-ever on a public forum.

Why don't you both walk away and place that energy on being helpful to those that ask.

Lisa