Dr. Wakefield Trial (mmr/autism Possible Link)

[psawyer]

  sbj said:

Is this still the Celiac Disease and Gluten-Free Forum? I suppose we can post on anything at all we'd like . . .

This section of the board is titled Gab/Chat Room - To Discuss Anything BUT Celiac Disease / Gluten-Free Diet, so this topic is fine here. But it is about a specific doctor (Wakefield) and a specific vaccine (MMR). A discussion about the Hepatitis vaccine belongs in a topic of its own in this section, if somebody wants to start one.

[ravenwoodglass]

  sbj said:

Is this still the Celiac Disease and Gluten-Free Forum? I suppose we can post on anything at all we'd like . . .

In this section yes any subject can be discussed as long as folks follow board rules.

Thanks to everyone both pro and con on this issue, it has been an interesting thread.

[sbj]

  psawyer said:

This section of the board is titled Gab/Chat Room - To Discuss Anything BUT Celiac Disease / Gluten-Free Diet, so this topic is fine here. But it is about a specific doctor (Wakefield) and a specific vaccine (MMR). A discussion about the Hepatitis vaccine belongs in a topic of its own in this section, if somebody wants to start one.

Good point! Sometimes I don't even know where I am . . . (now that is a setup line for a joke if I've ever heard one)

[JNBunnie1]

  sbj said:

Is this still the Celiac Disease and Gluten-Free Forum? I suppose we can post on anything at all we'd like . . .

Bunnie - I don't understand what you are trying to prove with these last few posts. I'm not trying to upset anyone, merely pointing out the results of a court case in which the plaintiffs were unable to prove that the MMR vaccine caused autism. That fact remains and that was all I was trying to bring to this discussion.

Fiddle, I enjoyed the discussion but that's it for me! See you on another thread that has more to do with the matter that's near and dear to my heart . . .

I'm trying to point out that all this kerfuffle is over a needless, ineffective vaccine. From what I undertand of the information I provided, the current measles epidemic is only threatening the lives of children who can't get proper healthcare.

You asked to me provide some facts with my 'baseless accusations'.

If this vaccine doesn't actually save lives, why damage them to give it?

And yes, speaking as an English major, telling someone they've made 'baseless accusations' when they've asked a simple, non-confrontational question, is easily interpreted as 'trying to upset someone'. I didn't think I had reacted in an upset manner. Please forgive me if you thought so.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

  psawyer said:

This section of the board is titled Gab/Chat Room - To Discuss Anything BUT Celiac Disease / Gluten-Free Diet, so this topic is fine here. But it is about a specific doctor (Wakefield) and a specific vaccine (MMR). A discussion about the Hepatitis vaccine belongs in a topic of its own in this section, if somebody wants to start one.

Peter, I think you're coming down a little hard and heavy on controlling subjects discussed!

I brought up the hepatitis vaccine as an example of how the pharmaceutical manufacturers (who are powerful enough to control the current mindset of the medical community regarding Wakefield (AND powerful enough to closely control the lack of information about gluten's link to many medical conditions that have affected most of us here, AND powerful enough to control the vaccine court's decision) managed to keep an unnecessary vaccine in use even though the numbers above indicate that it harmed far more than it protected.

They have done the same thing with the MMR, as well as the flu shot and others.

We have all managed to stay quite polite in this thread, so perhaps you could hover and observe (and join in, if you'd like!), but not step in with the censoring until needed?

[Fiddle-Faddle]

  sbj said:

I'm not trying to upset anyone, merely pointing out the results of a court case in which the plaintiffs were unable to prove that the MMR vaccine caused autism. That fact remains

Now wait a moment, sbj--are you saying that you've never heard of a court case where the judge/jury made the wrong decision?

In this case, the plaintiffs WERE able to prove exactly what they set out to prove.

The fact that the special masters disagreed with them is not proof of anything. As I see it, the fact that the special masters agreed with the defendants based on those flawed studies (funded by the pharm industry and carefully controlled to keep kids likely to develop autism OUT of the study), not to mention that thousands (perhaps more) of severe reactions (like those suffered by my own children) were not ever reported--that, to me, is proof that the special masters were wrong.

Court cases are not proof. Not in science, not in real life.

[psawyer]

  Fiddle-Faddle said:

Peter, I think you're coming down a little hard and heavy on controlling subjects discussed!

<<snip>>

We have all managed to stay quite polite in this thread, so perhaps you could hover and observe (and join in, if you'd like!), but not step in with the censoring until needed?

This has been a good discussion about the MMR vaccine. There has been much said about the three diseases it is focused on developing immunity to. We should talk about them.

The Hepatitis vaccine is a different vaccine, dealing with a different disease. I am not trying to censor anything--a discussion on that topic is welcome. But it is of dubious relevance to the MMR discussion. As I said, a topic about the Hep vaccine, or vaccines in general, is appropriate and welcome. Please start one if you want to continue that debate.

[purple]

  Fiddle-Faddle said:

#1) My understanding is the sum of money quoted was the sum for ALL court cases in which he gave testimony, not just one appearance.

Please remember that the media is distorting the facts. You seem bent on believing everything they report.

#2) Avoidable measles epidemic threatening lives of children? Again, you are believing what the media is spouting. Measles has always been a relatively benign children's disease; severe cases are rare, life-threatening cases rarer, and more children have been damaged by vaccines than by measles.

Rubella (the R in the MMR) is actually a more serious concern--not for the children who have it, as, like measles, it is not a serious disease, but for pregnant women who are exposed to it. Yet, we haven't heard a word about any birth defects related to a spike in rubella since the supposed epidemic of vaccine avoidance.

Mumps are also a concern, as pubescent boys could theoretically be rendered sterile by the mumps if caught during puberty, but we haven't heard about it, either.

Also, please remember that ONE MMR confers lifetime immunity on 95% who receive it, yet we keep reading in the news that children in the US MUST get their second measles shot or not be allowed to attend school.

L They are allowed to go to school without any measles shots, let alone 2. And the media never tells you that you can get a titre to prove immunity. And they never tell you that there have been NO studies showing that the 5% of kids who didn't develop immunity to the first shot eer develop any to the second shot.

You are so right FiddleFaddle!!! Venting time=

Imo, its about mind control and money/power. They invent a disease whether or not its real or fake so we get scared, get shots and give them money to get sick so we can give them more money...and wonder why we take so many prescriptions and never get better. Fear causes us to trust them, what liars they are. Don't anyone be deceived by the media, they report what they are told to report! The bad guys own it. Check into what else the bad guys own and use for a front/disguise to get our money. They can't get my money b/c I don't have any...ha ha, sorry. They own Hollywood, the TV channels, newspapers, charities(the most national recognized ones), big pharma, CDC, FDA, Federal Reserve, the gov't, hospitals, colleges, school curriculum, what goes into our food, FEMA, illegal drug IMPORT, oil companies, who gets elected, 9-11, etc........

Just gotta do some research and you will see how it all works together...AGAINST US! Please don't believe what you see and hear from the media. Half truths are lies in disguise.

Start with why is aspartame so dangerous but they still allow it in our food?

Why are immunizations so dangerous but its mandatory to give them to our kids?

Where is the cure for cancer in the U.S. when other countries have it or don't get it?

Why does the U.S. have a high rate of osteoporosis but are told to consume lots of dairy? Doesn't seem to help the U.S. You all know what they put in the milk and the cows...hm...hormones, chemicals, etc.... Why do people get better when they stop drinking all that milk?

Why did the polio epidemic start in the 50's? They gave all those shots and more kids got polio so they changed the name of the disease so they could say the epidemic was better but then there was a new disease with the same symptoms. They people were told to spray their walls for flies and chemicals were sprayed on the fields and cows were washed with DDT. I read it was lead in the sprays that leached into the irrigation water during the summer where the kids went to cool off. The media won't tell you that. They imported thousands of monkeys to experiment on in search for a vaccine ...that caused more polio. OOPS, their mistake but kids were in wheel chairs, crutches, and put in iron lung machines so they could breath. On TV it looks like they care sooo much...HA, no they don't.

Thats not freedom its control!!

Why didn't the national media cover the Special Olympics in Idaho, when other countries did? The local reporters kept saying...where are the national reporters??? They didn't show up b/c "they" don't care or were not allowed to by their leaders!!

I use the above for examples to explain...DON"T TRUST the media! They twist it to cover up lies.

Ask questions and search for answers!!!

[Jestgar]

Just quietly saying that what medical care you receive is your choice. I opt out of "mandatory" things all the time. It's up to you to decide what vaccines are appropriate.

  purple said:

Why did the polio epidemic start in the 50's? They gave all those shots and more kids got polio so they changed the name of the disease so they could say the epidemic was better but then there was a new disease with the same symptoms. They people were told to spray their walls for flies and chemicals were sprayed on the fields and cows were washed with DDT. I read it was lead in the sprays that leached into the irrigation water during the summer where the kids went to cool off. The media won't tell you that. They imported thousands of monkeys to experiment on in search for a vaccine ...that caused more polio. OOPS, their mistake but kids were in wheel chairs, crutches, and put in iron lung machines so they could breath. On TV it looks like they care sooo much...HA, no they don't.

If you're going to say things like this, you need to back up your statements with sources.

I have never seen anything showing that the polio vaccine causes polio.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

  Jestgar said:

If you're going to say things like this, you need to back up your statements with sources.

I have never seen anything showing that the polio vaccine causes polio.

The oral Polio vaccine did cause polio, and still does where it is in widespread use in third-world countries, like India and China.

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

[mommida]

  Jestgar said:

Just quietly saying that what medical care you receive is your choice. I opt out of "mandatory" things all the time. It's up to you to decide what vaccines are appropriate.

If you're going to say things like this, you need to back up your statements with sources.

I have never seen anything showing that the polio vaccine causes polio.

If you research Cutter incident you will find some disturbing facts on Polio Vaccine. It involves the Salk vaccine, and rarely receives mention.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

  sbj said:

We do know for a fact that Wakefield took tons of money

From Wakefield's response to Brian Deer (Open Original Shared Link)

"Any payment that I have received in the course of working over seven years as an expert to the UK courts ini the MMR litigation--substantially less thanthe sum Deer claims--was donated to the initiative to build a new center for the investigation and care of patients with inflammatory bowel syndrome at the Royal Free Hospital."

and, from the same document (as Wakefield has been saying for the last decade or so):

"Measles outbreaks are preventable, immediately, by offering to parents with entirely valid concerns about the safety of MMR vaccine a choice of single measles vaccine; not to do so is unethical and puts the vaccine policy, "our way or no way" before the well-being of children."

He is correct--parents are NOT being offered measles-only vaccines. In fact, when I asked for one in 2000, my pediatrician was unable to get a hold of one, the pharmacist was unable to get a hold of one but the inner city public health center had them. Go figure.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

  mommida said:

If you research Cutter incident you will find some disturbing facts on Polio Vaccine. It involves the Salk vaccine, and rarely receives mention.

Here is a link: Open Original Shared Link

[Fiddle-Faddle]

  Jestgar said:

Just quietly saying that what medical care you receive is your choice. I opt out of "mandatory" things all the time. It's up to you to decide what vaccines are appropriate.

But so many people are unaware that they have a choice with "mandatory" "health care," and many really DON'T have a choice--for example, immigrants applying for a green card are required to submit to several vaccines without even being asked what vaccines they already had had, and they are not given any information as to what vaccines they are being given here--they're just injected and sent on their way. And don't forget that the same happens to those in the military.

[mommida]

I am in no way suggesting anyone read or by a book by Offit.

The Cutter incident had court rulings that the Salk Polio vaccine was proven cause of Polio and money damages were awarded to Polio victims.

[purple]

  Jestgar said:

Just quietly saying that what medical care you receive is your choice. I opt out of "mandatory" things all the time. It's up to you to decide what vaccines are appropriate.

If you're going to say things like this, you need to back up your statements with sources.

I have never seen anything showing that the polio vaccine causes polio.

Open Original Shared Link

[purple]

Here is a link that includes info on autism and MMR

Open Original Shared Link

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Thanks for the link, purple.

I noticed at the very bottom of the article the part about donating polio vaccines to third world countries. It's already been established that live virus polio vaccines is responsible for outbreaks of--polio--in India and China.

I guess that they're donating it for two reasons: to look good, and because they're catching on in the third world countries and refusing to BUY vaccines from us now that they're noticing that their population is getting sick and dying from them.

[purple]

  Fiddle-Faddle said:

Thanks for the link, purple.

I noticed at the very bottom of the article the part about donating polio vaccines to third world countries. It's already been established that live virus polio vaccines is responsible for outbreaks of--polio--in India and China.

I guess that they're donating it for two reasons: to look good, and because they're catching on in the third world countries and refusing to BUY vaccines from us now that they're noticing that their population is getting sick and dying from them.

It makes your heart hurt, what they are doing to innocent people. Like your family