Casein Intolerance Linked To Gluten Intolerance

[moldlady]

Heard this information and wondered if anyone has had experience with this.

The presenter said that people with gluten intolerance are actually casein intolerant. If they give up the casein (all milk products and ones with added casein), in time their guts will heal and they will be able to have gluten again.

People that did not have complete healing of the gut after months and years being gluten free may have not given up the casein and therefore the main culprit is still aggravating the issue.

I felt that this was good news for most of us that are gluten intolerant....

ML

[ShayFL]

It is funny. I simply do not want gluten anymore. Even if I was not gluten intolerant. From the research I have done, it is just not good for humans to be eating it. Google Zonulin. Read "Dangerous Grains" and "Going Against The Grain". See if that doesnt make sense to you.

[psawyer]

The presenter said ...

Who is "the presenter" and where did they say this? Without those details, this is nothing more than an "I heard somewhere" rumor. Please provide the source.

[moldlady]

That's okay. I just thought it gave us all hope that some day we can go back to normal at some point. But I understand how some have gotten so used to this way of eating that it becomes a lifestyle.

ML

[psawyer]

It would give me hope, too, if it was true.

But without knowing who said it and what research it was based on, I cannot give it any credence. I have to wonder why you won't share the source with us, unless there is, in fact, no verifiable source.

I ask again, and sincerely hope that you will share with us all, who said this and where?

For what it is worth, avoiding casein can be every bit as challenging as avoiding gluten. My niece is casein intolerant, so I am rather familiar with that dietary restriction.

[Lisa]

The presenter said that people with gluten intolerance are actually casein intolerant. If they give up the casein (all milk products and ones with added casein), in time their guts will heal and they will be able to have gluten again.

ML

Hummm....why does this sound vaguely familiar to me. Someone, a while back seemed to imply the same thing, but I can't think who it might have been. But, I'll work on it.

...in the mean time, I hope no one takes this seriously.

[moldlady]

I will try my best to get the basic research on this and post.... hopefully early next week..

ML

[Rachel--24]

Heard this information and wondered if anyone has had experience with this.

The presenter said that people with gluten intolerance are actually casein intolerant. If they give up the casein (all milk products and ones with added casein), in time their guts will heal and they will be able to have gluten again.

People that did not have complete healing of the gut after months and years being gluten free may have not given up the casein and therefore the main culprit is still aggravating the issue.

I felt that this was good news for most of us that are gluten intolerant....

ML

In my opinion gluten intolerance (non-celiac) can be caused by a number of things.....and I'm sure casein can be one of them (for some people).

Its not far fetched.....although I do not believe that casein is the cause for all (or even most) cases of gluten intolerance. I think the possibilities are numerous.

Obviously a person with Celiac Disease is not going to be able to go back to eating gluten....although they might also benefit from removing casein.

Definately, if casein is a primary issue for someone and is causing damage which results in additional food intolerance (including gluten)....then removing all casein would allow for healing to take place and a reintroduction of gluten (without problems) can certainly be possible. I can agree that this may be the case for some individuals.....but not all.

Gluten is not always the main issue for non-celiacs who have gluten intolerance.

BTW...

Your question is legitimate and discussion is welcome here.

[mftnchn]

I'm interested in the source as well. However, it doesn't seem to fit with many people's experiences I have read here. Also for me. Casein and gluten free for 10 months didn't resolve the problem for me, and not even when I removed soy and several other allergens. I've remained GFSF but have reintroduced some milk in a limited way with no changes.

[nora-n]

There was an article here on celiac.com, and I looked up the absract on pubmed.

It sis some swedish research, and they say that in children who do not improve on gluten-free, often casein is to blame, and they discuss how casien does the same thing a gluten in some.

I and daughter do not tolerate even small amounts of casein. Daughter has antibodies to casein.

nora

[moldlady]

Thank you for your responses and thank you Nora for that bit of research. I have also been researching on the web and it seems that much of the research links the two but does not give a definite cause for either one or if one precedes another.

I have emailed the presenter of the information and it has been a week and still no response. I will post when I get an answer. I will email him again and ask for original research documentation for his lecture series on that topic.

ML

[nora-n]

just go to www.pubmed.com and type in casein and celiac, and the swedish article is right on top.

Often you can surf on by clicking on the see all related articles .

nora

[ive]

I actually eliminated casein almost 1 year before eliminating gluten. And even before that I was dairy-lite for 1 year, i.e. I figured out I was lactose intolerant and ate only sour cream / yogurt / cottage cheese occasionally. However, only after eliminating gluten I started to feel better, so this theory about casein being the culprit definitely does not apply to me.

[moldlady]

I actually eliminated casein almost 1 year before eliminating gluten. And even before that I was dairy-lite for 1 year, i.e. I figured out I was lactose intolerant and ate only sour cream / yogurt / cottage cheese occasionally. However, only after eliminating gluten I started to feel better, so this theory about casein being the culprit definitely does not apply to me.

ive,

Thank you for your input on this. I'm still waiting for a response on where the research came from...

ML

[raen]

first, i don't believe there is such a thing as "casein intolerance" unless its just poor wording - when its lactose, your body is intollerant (lacks enzymes to break down the food), when its casein, your body is allergic (immune system reacts). at least, that's the way doctors have always presented it to me.

because i was born allergic to milk, i almost never consumed it. i ate gluten, however, into my late teens, and was deathly ill for two years before dropping gluten. the very act of attempting to add an allergen back to your diet, if your allergic enough, could lead to serious complications or even death in rare cases.

i think its a load of BS, and the fact that you keep saying "the presenter" is suspicious at the very least. it sounds like some random guy spouting information he fabricated based on his own assumptions. its negligent and irresponsible to pass on false information from vague/unidentified sources to people with a serious disease.

[Rachel--24]

first, i don't believe there is such a thing as "casein intolerance" unless its just poor wording - when its lactose, your body is intollerant (lacks enzymes to break down the food), when its casein, your body is allergic (immune system reacts). at least, that's the way doctors have always presented it to me.

Just as there is a specific enzyme involved in the breakdown and digestion of lactose...there is also an enzyme involved in the breakdown and digestion of both gluten and casein.

The enzyme is dipeptidyl peptidase-IV (DPPIV). If this enzyme is deficient or inhibited.....it can result in an intolerance to both of these foods. This type of reaction wouldnt be considered an "allergic" reaction....as it would not involve IgE antibodies. It is an intolerance caused by enzyme deficiency or enzyme dysfuntion....either way it is a legitimate intolerance (as I understand).

In this case it would be poor wording to call it an "allergy".....since its actually an intolerance.

i think its a load of BS, and the fact that you keep saying "the presenter" is suspicious at the very least. it sounds like some random guy spouting information he fabricated based on his own assumptions. its negligent and irresponsible to pass on false information from vague/unidentified sources to people with a serious disease.

I wouldnt necessarily call it a load of BS. If a person is unable to properly digest casein.....this can result in damage. I think for some people it might be more of a severe problem than gluten....depending on the person, whether or not they have Celiac, and all sorts of other factors which might be involved.

Oringinally, (unless I'm totally losing my mind)......I believe that the presenter's name was posted. I'm pretty sure I saw it.....but then for some reason the post was edited and the name was replaced with "presenter"?? I might be wrong but I thought that when this topic was originally posted there was a name in there as well. I'm not sure why it was removed.

I cant say what this guy is basing his info. on but to me it doesnt sound like its unreasonable for some people to have more of a problem with casein than they do with gluten. I believe that casein is actually more prevelant in the standard american diet. The average diet has more cow's milk in it than wheat products. I'm pretty sure casein is also considered to be the #1 food allergen....with wheat being 2nd. It doesnt seem like it would be a long shot to think that some people are suffering greater damage from having casein in their diet.

I am interested to see if MoldLady can provide more info. on this. Even if she doesnt come back with a name...it doesnt change my opinion that this is highly possible.....for some people.

Also, from what I understand many parents of autistic children report more severe symptoms with casein. Alot of children make more improvement after eliminating casein.....and they also have more severe symptoms from dietary infractions with casein...then they do with gluten. This isnt the same for everyone....but certainly for some it does seem that casein is causing more problems.

In addition, if a person has lost function of this critical enzyme they would most likely be intolerant to both gluten AND casein. It makes sense that if that were the case a person would not actually feel significant improvement until BOTH of these foods are removed. If casein is removed first, it might seem that the problem wasnt resolved until gluten was removed....and vice versa. In reality it could be that both foods need to be avoided in order to feel the most improvement.

[pele]

first, i don't believe there is such a thing as "casein intolerance" unless its just poor wording - when its lactose, your body is intollerant (lacks enzymes to break down the food), when its casein, your body is allergic (immune system reacts). at least, that's the way doctors have always presented it to me.

My experience is that dairy makes me dull, foggy-headed and sleepy. I do not get gas or other digestive disturbances from dairy. I was told I am reacting to protein, not milk sugar. I really do not know what it is about dairy that causes this. Can you shed any more light on the topic of casein vs. lactose intolerance? And can anyone venture a guess if mine might be a permanent or temporary condition?

[moldlady]

Hi Rachel and others,

It is frustrating as I'm still waiting for an answer to the question. It will be two weeks Monday since I first inquired about the original research used to give basis to the conclusion.

[nora-n]

Hi, both me and my daughter are casein intolerant, not IgE mediated. Sheactually had it show up on a blood test and she had IgA antibodies to casein. Some years ago these were standard tests included in celiac panls here but now they have been abandoned. I think they sometimes are relevant still.

i posted a reference to a swedish study where they found that casein does the same in teh intestines as gluten does about half the celiacs.

nora

[moldlady]

Yes Nora,

Thank you very much for your input. ....

ML

[aprilh]

Just as there is a specific enzyme involved in the breakdown and digestion of lactose...there is also an enzyme involved in the breakdown and digestion of both gluten and casein.

The enzyme is dipeptidyl peptidase-IV (DPPIV). If this enzyme is deficient or inhibited.....it can result in an intolerance to both of these foods. This type of reaction wouldnt be considered an "allergic" reaction....as it would not involve IgE antibodies. It is an intolerance caused by enzyme deficiency or enzyme dysfuntion....either way it is a legitimate intolerance (as I understand).

In this case it would be poor wording to call it an "allergy".....since its actually an intolerance.

I wouldnt necessarily call it a load of BS. If a person is unable to properly digest casein.....this can result in damage. I think for some people it might be more of a severe problem than gluten....depending on the person, whether or not they have Celiac, and all sorts of other factors which might be involved.

Oringinally, (unless I'm totally losing my mind)......I believe that the presenter's name was posted. I'm pretty sure I saw it.....but then for some reason the post was edited and the name was replaced with "presenter"?? I might be wrong but I thought that when this topic was originally posted there was a name in there as well. I'm not sure why it was removed.

I cant say what this guy is basing his info. on but to me it doesnt sound like its unreasonable for some people to have more of a problem with casein than they do with gluten. I believe that casein is actually more prevelant in the standard american diet. The average diet has more cow's milk in it than wheat products. I'm pretty sure casein is also considered to be the #1 food allergen....with wheat being 2nd. It doesnt seem like it would be a long shot to think that some people are suffering greater damage from having casein in their diet.

I am interested to see if MoldLady can provide more info. on this. Even if she doesnt come back with a name...it doesnt change my opinion that this is highly possible.....for some people.

Also, from what I understand many parents of autistic children report more severe symptoms with casein. Alot of children make more improvement after eliminating casein.....and they also have more severe symptoms from dietary infractions with casein...then they do with gluten. This isnt the same for everyone....but certainly for some it does seem that casein is causing more problems.

In addition, if a person has lost function of this critical enzyme they would most likely be intolerant to both gluten AND casein. It makes sense that if that were the case a person would not actually feel significant improvement until BOTH of these foods are removed. If casein is removed first, it might seem that the problem wasnt resolved until gluten was removed....and vice versa. In reality it could be that both foods need to be avoided in order to feel the most improvement.

I agree Rachel, and as always I appreciate your "scientificness" behind it. I know you have studied these enzymes proficiently.

I have experienced similar symptoms with gluten AND casien. I have read MANY articles that anyone with gut damage and are looking to heal, need to remove both gluten and casein. In autistic children the gluten or the casein can cause the same nuero symptoms.

[raen]

Rachel makes a valid point.. that sounds to me like it just disproves this whole theory.

if its just an intolerance, and not an allergy, meaning your immune system does not react your body simply cannot digest it. vrs Celiac, meaning your immune system attacks. in what context could a simple intolerance "cause" an allergic reaction to another food? and sense when can intolerance damage your intestine? i was under the impression that only milk allergy could (maybe) do that.

the example you gave, it sounds like kids allergic to milk and sensitive to gluten, what the poster was suggesting (if nto worded wrong) was people allergic to gluten and intolerant of milk - the exact opposite.

[Rachel--24]

Rachel makes a valid point.. that sounds to me like it just disproves this whole theory.

if its just an intolerance, and not an allergy, meaning your immune system does not react your body simply cannot digest it. vrs Celiac, meaning your immune system attacks. in what context could a simple intolerance "cause" an allergic reaction to another food? and sense when can intolerance damage your intestine? i was under the impression that only milk allergy could (maybe) do that.

the example you gave, it sounds like kids allergic to milk and sensitive to gluten, what the poster was suggesting (if nto worded wrong) was people allergic to gluten and intolerant of milk - the exact opposite.

Raen....an allergic reaction is a different type of immune reaction then what's being discussed with regards to gluten and casein intolerance.

An allergic reaction involves IgE antibodies....its an immediate reaction to a food that results in allergy symptoms. If severe, an allergy can cause anaphylactic reaction....and even death.

Celiac Disease, non-celiac gluten intolerance and casein intolerance are not allergies. Allergies can be diagnosed with IgE allergy tests....but these are different conditions.....and Celiac is an autoimmune disease. Even though the immune system is "attacking".....its a totally different immune response then what occurs during an allergic reaction.

Autoimmune reactions result in damage to our own tissue....the immune system is attacking "self".

Celiac is not an allergy...its an intolerance....and yet it results in damage to the intestines. Lots of things can cause damage to the intestines.....including yeast, parasites, bacteria, toxins and of course food intolerance. They can all cause inflammation...which can be damaging to the intestinal lining.

The damage to the villi that is found in Celiac Disease is a different kind of damage....its caused by the autoimmune reaction.

It sounds like maybe you are confusing allergies with intolerances? I dont think any of the previous posters were referring to allergies in their posts....the wording is correct because we're not talking about allergic reactions....only intolerance.

Sorry if it sounds confusing.

I was actually not trying to disprove the theory.....I do believe there is truth in it.

[Mother of Jibril]

My son has a severe intolerance to casein... it's not the same as lactose intolerance. Within six weeks after he was born, his intestines were so inflamed that he was actually bleeding into his diapers, vomiting, crying all the time, and clearly in a lot of pain. This website offers a good explanation:

Open Original Shared Link

Since I was breastfeeding, I had to stop consuming dairy products. Within a week the colic was gone. Within six weeks he was completely back his normal, happy self.

I have a leaky gut too. Going dairy-free didn't do much for me, but gluten-free helped a LOT. I wonder if that's why so much cow's milk protein was getting into my breastmilk.

[nora-n]

Yes, it was.

Other breast-feeding moms have also reported that gluten passed over into the breast milk and baby got sick.

And, dogtorj (google his website) also discusses such things, and that whatever se feed animals passes into the meat.

Have you by any chance read about the discussion on A1 a dn A2 milk?

Another thing to pursue.

Lots and lots about that on the internet.

Some tolerate goat milk,

My duaghter would love to tolerate some milk but a week ago she was sleeping for two days after eating out (someone used butter or something with milk in a thai restaurant, a big no-no in thai food)

nora