An Apple A Day......

[Lizking531]

Alright - been thru the gamut of Dr's offices - long story short, after test & test & hernia surgery - ended up with a doc telling me I had bacteria overgrowth. Between diet, exercise & probiotics, had everything under control for the past year or more. Lately, eveything has been sliding back to how it was. Right now I have 3 specific foods that I try to avoid because they kill me. There's a few others I try to avoid as well (beer, processed food, sugar) but they aren't quite as menacing. Basically, I try to eat "real" food prepared simply. My go-to dish is my "white meal" - baked chicken breast, white rice, some sort of mild veggie.

The foods that kill me:

apples (uncooked - eating an apple "like an apple")

summer squash/zucchini

bananas

certain IPA beers

Each of those give me horrible gas, explosive BM (for lack of better term), irritability, feeling of a lump in my throat, and like a confused/dazed feeling. There's enough distension in my system that I can feel exactly where the mesh for the hernia was put.

Has any one experienced anything like this or have any suggestions/stories/anecdotes/etc for this situation?

[ravenwoodglass]

Are you gluten free? IPA beers are not something we can tolerate we have to drink beer without barley malt. Redbridge, New Grist, Greens gluten-free etc.

If your drinking them regularly, even just a couple a week, your keeping the antibodies active.

[lucia]

Have you seen an allergist? Perhaps you are actually allergic to these foods (not including the beer, which is gluten-based)?

[Lizking531]

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:53 PM, ravenwoodglass said:

Are you gluten free? IPA beers are not something we can tolerate we have to drink beer without barley malt. Redbridge, New Grist, Greens gluten-free etc.

If your drinking them regularly, even just a couple a week, your keeping the antibodies active.

No, I started going that route, but I never made it completely to gluten-free - I read to keep gluten intake while testing, so I quit trying to change the diet for a bit. Once tests came back with bacteria overgrowth, I went to (what I call) a "whole food" diet - very little, if any, processed food & sugar, supplemented with probiotics.

Everything was more or less "ok" (never what I'd consider normal, but not bad) for the last couple years. I would still have 3-4 solid bm's per day (but much cut back from the 15+ not-solid per day previously). My energy was back up & I felt a lot better.

Now more recently I am back to having gas that causes sharp pain, lot's of gas, more floating stinky stools, stools more often, overall crappiness feeling, more fatigue & irritability, feeling "full" - not finished feeling. It also kinda feels like I have UTI - but I don't. I have also noticed more often that when I feel like crap, I also have the feeling of a lump in the back of my throat that I didn't really notice before.

One other note - I can eat a salad, but only every other day. If I eat a salad 2 days in a row - it will look almost identical on the way out as on the way in - like it never digested at all.

Could this still be celiac or is it more likely a food allergy?

- I'm fed up & skeptical with the Dr's so I'm looking to avoid that as much as possible.

I do see in hindsight that this question would've been more properly suited for a different topic - more of a pre or figuring it out, rather than celiac specific - pardon me...

[Katie B]

I'm dealing with bacterial overgrowth and potential celiac disease - I have enough autoimmune things going on that I feel more comfortable eliminating gluten.

You should check out the low FODMAP diet. It limits the foods that will ferment and provide extra food for the bacteria. The team at Monash University in Australia is conducting the research and Sue Shepherd - Shepherd Works and Jaci Barrett at Diet Solutions are dieticians specializing in the diet.

I tried the specific carbohydrate diet and it worked but find that this diet allows a bit more variety - small portions of rice etc.

Apples are a huge problem for people with fructose malabsorption (not fructose intolerance) - they are highly fermentable. Safer fruits (at 1/2 cup per serve spaced out by 2.5 hours) are berries, kiwi, grapes, melon and more. I would limit your amount of fruit for a little while until you get things under control. Bananas can be problematic as well because they are a pre-biotic and feed bacteria. Apparently a full serve of banana is 1/2 a banana.

I can send you more info if you like. You can also order the booklet from Monash and get a more in-depth list. I should mention it does help to speak to the dieticians who are doing the research because all of the lists on the internet of "safe" and "unsafe" FODMAP foods conflict. They're also always testing new foods so the information is very recent.

Sue Shepherd also has a couple of cookbooks that I've yet to use (I still can't eat a lot of the foods).

I'd watch out for carbs too - those are what get me with the SIBO.

[T.H.]

Well, just things to check to see if they might be of use?

1. Fructose Malabsorption: veggies, fruits, and whole grains can set this off. Often involves lots of gas and stool problems, and then other issues from poor absorption of other foods since your gut is messed up. Apples are a definite 'bad' food for this problem, but white rice is a definite 'good.' I believe fermented products are also not so good for this issue, as well, so might be worth checking out. just like celiac disease, the only cure is to alter the diet, and many people alter the diet to diagnose it, too.

This link lists some of the good/bad/in moderation foods for people with this issue:

Open Original Shared Link

Oh, and it's not genetic, it's caused, they just don't know by what. But seems to be more common in people who had other gut issues.

2. intestinal parasites or h. pylori infection. You might want to look up some parasite symptoms to see if they match any of your difficulties. Or H. pylori ones.

3. Crohn's disease. there can be trigger foods, and foods that cause more trouble. Steroids are what is needed to help this, for a while, and to figure out the trigger foods.

Wishing you good luck and hoping that you can find a solution and feel better soon!

[cassP]

yes- look up fructose malabsorption & the FODMAP diet...

i have this to an extent-

but i have to tell you- a lot of the times- Fructose Malabsorption &/or Lactose Intolerance go hand in hand with Celiac or Gluten Intolerance.

you may need to also get back to eating enough gluten for proper celiac blood panels

[WheatChef]

Almost nothing should look the same going out as it went in (except for pennies, why are you eating pennies, oh no wait that's my dog who does that). I don't think the fructose malabsorption would specifically explain why you can't have raw apples but have no problems from cooked apples.

For bananas is it the same in regards to cooked/uncooked? If you chew on an apple for a while do you get itchiness in the mouth? Aside from the squashes, the apples/bananas/hops raw issues may be related to oral allergy syndrome (aka pollen allergy syndrome). It's basically a collection of foods that your body responds to as if they were really pollen, cooking breaks down the offending proteins however and renders the cooked substance safe. Itching occurs in the mouth and throat but if you swallow it the histamine response can also occur in your intestines leading to the issues you mentioned.

[Lizking531]

  On 10/5/2010 at 11:26 AM, WheatChef said:

Almost nothing should look the same going out as it went in (except for pennies, why are you eating pennies, oh no wait that's my dog who does that). I don't think the fructose malabsorption would specifically explain why you can't have raw apples but have no problems from cooked apples.

For bananas is it the same in regards to cooked/uncooked? If you chew on an apple for a while do you get itchiness in the mouth? Aside from the squashes, the apples/bananas/hops raw issues may be related to oral allergy syndrome (aka pollen allergy syndrome). It's basically a collection of foods that your body responds to as if they were really pollen, cooking breaks down the offending proteins however and renders the cooked substance safe. Itching occurs in the mouth and throat but if you swallow it the histamine response can also occur in your intestines leading to the issues you mentioned.

Hehehe - and quarters: if you get back 2 dimes & a nickel, ya got a problem

I cant' say I've ever noticed, or thought about, cooked bananas. I can't say I've had an itchiness in my mouth that stood out specifically (except maybe bananas), I'll have to pay attention better. Bananas can sometime taste kinda metallic/acidic to me, but I just thought that's how it was.

I've read about fructose malabsorbtion before. I'm may need to do a little more reading.

One other thing I feel I should add is that I quit smoking a few months ago. When all my troubles started intially a couple years ago, it was right after I tried to quit before. I made it a couple months but ended up smoking again because, unfortunately, it made my guts feel better. This go round it's been almost 6 months, but with no desire to smoke again. Although I do have a strong desire to get my guts in check.

[Katie B]

So confusing eh?

Did you become constipated after stopping smoking? If you're eating highly fermentable foods and you're constipated then it compounds the problem because it gives the bacteria even longer to feast away.

I would highly recommend eating foods that aren't highly fermentable and making sure things are moving. There's some debate as to whether people with SIBO should take probiotics - I'm taking 1/2 packet of VSL#3 2 x a day.

Just as an FYI - wheat and milk products (containing lactose) are highly fermentable as well.

If you are constipated and need a laxative then avoid lactulose at all costs - this is a prebiotic and will make things 100x worse. I imagine you'd have to see a Dr. about it but PEG is not fermentable and is over the counter.

I agree with CassP though - SIBO is often a result of something else (weakened immune system, celiac disease, non-celiac gluten intolerance, even ulcerative colitis and crohn's) and it's definitely worth getting everything checked out.

Good luck!

[Lizking531]

  On 10/5/2010 at 2:58 PM, Katie B said:

So confusing eh?

Did you become constipated after stopping smoking? If you're eating highly fermentable foods and you're constipated then it compounds the problem because it gives the bacteria even longer to feast away.

I would highly recommend eating foods that aren't highly fermentable and making sure things are moving. There's some debate as to whether people with SIBO should take probiotics - I'm taking 1/2 packet of VSL#3 2 x a day.

Just as an FYI - wheat and milk products (containing lactose) are highly fermentable as well.

If you are constipated and need a laxative then avoid lactulose at all costs - this is a prebiotic and will make things 100x worse. I imagine you'd have to see a Dr. about it but PEG is not fermentable and is over the counter.

I agree with CassP though - SIBO is often a result of something else (weakened immune system, celiac disease, non-celiac gluten intolerance, even ulcerative colitis and crohn's) and it's definitely worth getting everything checked out.

Good luck!

Well, yes & no - a lot of both (not sure if that makes any sense). Overall, I would say more constipated than when I smoked, but that is not without bouts of D here & there. Granted, there's a lot of things at work with cigs & GI stuff.

The fructose stuff does hit home on some accounts, but, as always with this stuff, there's still room for mystery. I read somewhere before to pay attention to your cravings, since many times you will actively crave those things which you should avoid. I definitely have sweet cravings - sometimes those are much worse than any cig craving.

Overall, the concept of things fermenting in my belly does make sense. I have so much gas so often that it's often embarrassing - i.e. the first date with my now-fiance (luckily) - I leaned down to pick up my cat to show her & my leaning was enough internal pressure...well... Sometimes beer can make me swell up like a balloon - like take a sip, belly expands, take a sip belly expands, etc.

Yeah - I've been to the GI specialist, doctors, blood, stool, urine, etc, etc. I have thought about Enterolab or allergy testing, but I'm now so put off by most doctors from the previous run arounds that I don't really care if someone can diagnose anything or not - I'm looking for relief I can live with & work with.

[mommyto3]

You mentioned you often feel like you have a UTI but you don't. I felt like that for probably 4 years, on and off, before I found out I had celiac. I had really bad bladder irritation which would cause me to feel like I had to go all the time. Only difference with a UTI is that you have the burning - I didn't have burning with the irritation which is how I knew it wasn't a UTI.

I just pretty much learned to live with this until I started having all the terrible gut symptoms of Celiac. I visited my doc who was sending me for an ultrasound and she suggested I try gluten free while waiting for the tests. The first week I went gluten free was like a miracle for me. My bladder symptoms completely resolved within a day and I FELT GREAT for the first time in years.

Since going gluten free I have not had that UTI feeling. And the funny thing is that I even had a real UTI but didn't get any symptoms. My doc found it through a routine urine test. Go figure!

Just wanted to let you know that bladder irritation is a pretty common symptom of Celiac.

[cassP]

  On 10/5/2010 at 4:45 PM, mommyto3 said:

You mentioned you often feel like you have a UTI but you don't. I felt like that for probably 4 years, on and off, before I found out I had celiac. I had really bad bladder irritation which would cause me to feel like I had to go all the time. Only difference with a UTI is that you have the burning - I didn't have burning with the irritation which is how I knew it wasn't a UTI.

I just pretty much learned to live with this until I started having all the terrible gut symptoms of Celiac. I visited my doc who was sending me for an ultrasound and she suggested I try gluten free while waiting for the tests. The first week I went gluten free was like a miracle for me. My bladder symptoms completely resolved within a day and I FELT GREAT for the first time in years.

Since going gluten free I have not had that UTI feeling. And the funny thing is that I even had a real UTI but didn't get any symptoms. My doc found it through a routine urine test. Go figure!

Just wanted to let you know that bladder irritation is a pretty common symptom of Celiac.

ive had that feeling of getting a UTI when i would go back on gluten in the past... and i wonder if that has anything to do with Interstitial Cystitis... its an inflammatory condition that i have seen linked to other autoimmune diseases.

[Lizking531]

  On 10/5/2010 at 5:13 PM, cassP said:

ive had that feeling of getting a UTI when i would go back on gluten in the past... and i wonder if that has anything to do with Interstitial Cystitis... its an inflammatory condition that i have seen linked to other autoimmune diseases.

& what sucks about it all is the friggin feeling of chasing my tail around. The symptoms are the same for so many different things & having one thing trigger something else, etc, etc - I'm not really sure what direction to look.

Does anyone have any experience with Lyme disease?

I don't know much about it, other than ticks. I have had some nasty run-ins with ticks in the past - had one of the worst "flu" feelings after getting bit. I hike/hunt/spend a lot of time outdoors - I sure I will be bit again, it's really only a matter of luck or time. I'm not sure if I've been checked for Lyme, but if so, it's only been in the "normal" run of generic bloodwork from a GP. I wonder if this would be worth looking into more seriously or not...

[MelindaLee]

  On 10/5/2010 at 12:37 PM, Lizking531 said:

Hehehe - and quarters: if you get back 2 dimes & a nickel, ya got a problem

I cant' say I've ever noticed, or thought about, cooked bananas. I can't say I've had an itchiness in my mouth that stood out specifically (except maybe bananas), I'll have to pay attention better. Bananas can sometime taste kinda metallic/acidic to me, but I just thought that's how it was.

I've read about fructose malabsorbtion before. I'm may need to do a little more reading.

One other thing I feel I should add is that I quit smoking a few months ago. When all my troubles started intially a couple years ago, it was right after I tried to quit before. I made it a couple months but ended up smoking again because, unfortunately, it made my guts feel better. This go round it's been almost 6 months, but with no desire to smoke again. Although I do have a strong desire to get my guts in check.

Not sure if this is related or not, but my friend has severe asthma due to allergies. She cannot eat zuchinni, cucumbers, etc, especially when her asthma is at it's worst. (pretty much anything that is ripening or being harvested at this time of the year)