Kraft And Cross-Contamination O.0

[cavernio]

Skylark is not in great health last I saw. Skylark has also not said that Kraft's products are safe unless the label says otherwise.

I trust no one, or at least that's the way it's going.

[Lisa]

  On 7/3/2012 at 7:28 PM, cavernio said:

You answered her, telling her it was gluten-free, when Kraft themselves told her it might contain gluten.

There are no gluten containing ingredients in that listing.

I trust Kraft and many other companies whose policy is to list all forms of gluten on their ingredient listing or allergen statement.

If you don't trust them, don't buy them!

I think that the members here can make an informed judgement on what products to buy, without your rant.

[bartfull]

  On 7/3/2012 at 5:14 PM, Skylark said:

What's unreasonable is focusing solely on Kraft when what you have written is true for every single major food manufacturer. If you feel that way, you need to avoid ALL processed foods that are not GFCO certified and/or from dedicated facilities. You are freaking out over some CYA legalese. Use your common sense!

We know processed foods are CC. Why do you think most new members get advised to eat whole foods?

This is what Skylark said. CYA (cover your ...butt) legalese. Same thing the rest of us have been saying. NO company can realistically GUARANTEE that something is gluten-free, any more than you can walk into a grocery store and be GUARANTEED that even the produce you buy hasn't been CC'd. (Could have been grown with wheat straw mulch, could have been stored next to the flour in the warehouse, could have been handled by a previous customer's gluteny hands.)

But generally speaking, Kraft foods are safely LABELED, and unless you grow everything yourself and eat only those things, you might as well trust an HONEST company like Kraft. Or Con-Agra, or any of the others who go out of their way to label things so clearly.

[Skylark]

  On 7/3/2012 at 7:30 PM, cavernio said:

Skylark is not in great health last I saw. Skylark has also not said that Kraft's products are safe unless the label says otherwise.

I trust no one, or at least that's the way it's going.

I'm confused? What does my health or lack thereof have to do with Kraft? Does being sick somehow magically negate my Ph.D.?

As for what I've posted I'm sure you can find somewhere I said a particular processed food was safe. I don't write a processed food CC disclaimer every time someone posts an ingredient list and asks if there is gluten. Besides, if I were inclined to eat them, I would tolerate products like Miracle Whip or Oscar Mayer meats just fine. I don't eat them because I don't care for food chemicals and preservatives, not becasue I'm worried about gluten CC.

[Jestgar]

  On 7/3/2012 at 7:30 PM, cavernio said:

I trust no one, or at least that's the way it's going.

Then choose your foods accordingly. This is really nothing worth getting worked up about. Every person on this board draws their own line when it comes to deciding what is appropriate for his, or her health.

[IrishHeart]

  On 7/3/2012 at 7:20 PM, cavernio said:

I'm upset because there's there is misinformation being posted to this board about Kraft products.

This has nothing to do with reading a label and everything to do with people asking 'Is blank Kraft product gluten-free?' and people replying 'yes, it is gluten-free'.

Well, hon, please hear me out, okay? Just bear with me.

You start with this statement:

"Especially since people who are trying to cook for me keep peppering me with questions with what is safe, and I *wanted* to tell them Kraft is safe, but again, I can't be too cautious, can I? Afterall I'm one of those people whose body doesn't really tell me I've eaten gluten (at least not yet,) so I can't trust it to tell me when I have eaten it."

This is a huge red flag. If you cannot tell when you have been hit by gluten CC, how can you say specifically it was a Kraft product?

Hon, I think you need to take a deep breath and look at this in a different way. Please?

Gemini, Lisa, Skylark, Karen, Jestgar, Peter all of us are ALL veteran celiacs. Gemini's response was genuine and kind. Skylark has given more than her share of kind responses to you and others on this board. Yet, you are making some unkind responses in return?

I am not sure why, except maybe you are not feeling well? I can understand.

We were all very, very ill from celiac. Gemini and I ---and a few others -- were DYING. No exaggeration-- before DX. WE get it, truly.

And we are telling you in all honesty, that the Kraft company is reliable and as good as it gets for us celiacs about labeling their products. In fact, it is one of the best!

We have been here for you since the day you joined the site, right? We take time ---every single day---- to inform other celiacs how to negotiate a gluten-free life.

None of us are lying to you. None of us would lead you astray, I promise you. Why on earth would we do that?

If you are not feeling well, I suggest to you that something else may be at play?

You also said:

"I have lost 12 years of my life to depression, tiredness, brain fog, now I have nerve damage too. I have no career because of it. We're all lucky because we haven't died from being celiacs. I am not about to maybe eat something that knowingly damages me. I can't really understand how anyone would."

Me too. Please, read my history on here. But, I am telling you, with all of my heart, a Kraft product, clearly labeled, is a very good thing and it will not harm you.

Best regards, IH

[cavernio]

Open Original Shared Link

[Lisa]

  On 7/4/2012 at 2:13 PM, cavernio said:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

TOMATO PUREE (WATER, TOMATO PASTE), DISTILLED VINEGAR, CORN SYRUP, SALT, RAISIN PASTE, CRUSHED ORANGE PUREE, SPICES AND HERBS, DRIED GARLIC AND ONION, CARAMEL COLOR, POTASSIUM SORBATE (TO PRESERVE FRESHNESS), XANTHAN GUM.

Where is the gluten?

[IrishHeart]

  On 7/4/2012 at 2:13 PM, cavernio said:

Open Original Shared Link

I went to this blogger's site, but the links she provided went to "error" pages, so I can't see what you are trying to say.

Sorry. Nothing there.

If it is the vinegar, you are concerned about maybe this will help? Vinegar is gluten free.

Open Original Shared Link

[freeatlast]

Trust me, as someone said above, this is legal jargon so they won't get sued. I thought about starting a gluten-free restaurant, but thought better of it, b/c someone would inevitably get sick and sue and that would be the end of that dream. And, I'm gluten-free and would KNOW how to do it.

[ravenwoodglass]

  On 7/4/2012 at 2:35 PM, IrishHeart said:

If it is the vinegar, you are concerned about maybe this will help? Vinegar is gluten free.

Open Original Shared Link

There are a few, and I do stress very few, of us who will react to distilled gluten grains. Perhaps that is the issue with the OP since he mentions problems with the sauces and such in his first post.

I always call and ask the source of distilled vinegar since it is not required that the source be indentified.

[Skylark]

  On 7/4/2012 at 2:13 PM, cavernio said:

Open Original Shared Link

A random blog with year-old dead links to the Canadian Kraft site, which doesn't even have product info on A1 steak sauce despite the domain name? That's your idea of proof?

[cavernio]

There's a whole other thread not more than a month old about Kraft representatives not saying the same thing their website has. I shouldn't have posted that link there, not here, because that's not what I initially concerned me about Kraft.

If they are worried about being sued, then I should be worried about ingesting their products. Laws and regulations exist to protect us. And unless you're high up there working for Kraft, you can only assume that 'purely legal issues' prevent them from calling their products gluten free.

If you aren't worried about Kraft products, that's fine. But don't make claims that their products are gluten free when the company themselves refuses to claim that. Instead say 'I have never had a reaction from Kraft products and they disclose all of their ingredients that contain gluten' or something similar. Please don't say 'All Kraft products are gluten free unless the labels says otherwise'

Note that the title of the thread was worry about cross-contamination. The only discussion we've had around that is 'You're interpreting wrong'. Statements regarding my health that are 'up to interpretation' aren't good enough for me. The only thing Kraft says about cross contamination is in regards to their labelled gluten free products.

[ravenwoodglass]

  On 7/5/2012 at 1:32 PM, cavernio said:

There's a whole other thread not more than a month old about Kraft representatives not saying the same thing their website has. I shouldn't have posted that link there, not here, because that's not what I initially concerned me about Kraft.

If they are worried about being sued, then I should be worried about ingesting their products. Laws and regulations exist to protect us. And unless you're high up there working for Kraft, you can only assume that 'purely legal issues' prevent them from calling their products gluten free.

If you aren't worried about Kraft products, that's fine. But don't make claims that their products are gluten free when the company themselves refuses to claim that. Instead say 'I have never had a reaction from Kraft products and they disclose all of their ingredients that contain gluten' or something similar. Please don't say 'All Kraft products are gluten free unless the labels says otherwise'

Note that the title of the thread was worry about cross-contamination. The only discussion we've had around that is 'You're interpreting wrong'. Statements regarding my health that are 'up to interpretation' aren't good enough for me. The only thing Kraft says about cross contamination is in regards to their labelled gluten free products.

While I have never had an issue with CC with Kraft products if you are leery of them then the answer is simple. Don't buy stuff from that company.

I have been on this board for a long time and have never once seen a post about someone being CC'd by their products.

[Skylark]

Look, you need to apologize rather than continuing to split hairs, particularly to me about that nasty bit about my health. I'm about to put you on ignore.

Risk of CC is a given in all processed foods. About the only products that are truly unlikely to be CC are products that contain no grains and are made on dedicated lines like Larabars. Even grain-based foods with the gluten-free label are sometimes recalled because of gluten CC. I'm sorry that fact came as such a shock but continuing to try to paint Kraft as the devil and failing to apologize to everyone who has been trying to help you understand is just beyond the pale.

Personally I've never been CC by Kraft. I did get glutened once by certified gluten-free crackers from a good brand with a dedicated facility (at least I think so as there was no other sensible explanation). You just never know when you buy something in a bag, box, or can, which is one of the many reasons I mostly don't eat processed food.

[IrishHeart]

  On 7/5/2012 at 1:32 PM, cavernio said:

Note that the title of the thread was worry about cross-contamination. The only discussion we've had around that is 'You're interpreting wrong'.

We've tried to explain it repeatedly ---how the policy and labeling law works. Veteran members have given you their best advice and assured you the company's policy is solid. Instead of listening, you are insulting others and suggesting people are lying to you.

I had so hoped you would come back today and feel more assured, but you persist in arguing the point--when there is no point to be argued at all.

For some reason, you cannot see what we are saying, so I will offer you this last thought:

Don't eat anything from Kraft.

[bartfull]

  On 7/5/2012 at 9:05 PM, IrishHeart said:

We've tried to explain it repeatedly ---how the policy and labeling law works. Veteran members have given you their best advice and assured you the company's policy is solid. Instead of listening, you are insulting others and suggesting people are lying to you.

I had so hoped you would come back today and feel more assured, but you persist in arguing the point--when there is no point to be argued at all.

For some reason, you cannot see what we are saying, so I will offer you this last thought:

Don't eat anything from Kraft.

Or anything else you didn't grow yourself.

And if you think we have been LYING to you, another piece of advice I can give you is, get your info from someplace or someone else.

[eatmeat4good]

I remember when I was new at being gluten free.

It was a shock to find out that no gluten ingredients did not necessarily mean no gluten CC.

Gluten CC is always a possibility if it isn't made in a dedicated facility.

But I still find it helpful to ask people what they use and what brands they trust.

I don't really want the legal definition the company uses given back to me. (Although that too is helpful in learning to read and interpret labels.)

I want to know from real live Celiac's who have experience with products, reading labels, and using these foods for many years more than I have in trying to be gluten free.

That is the value of this forum.

You can learn about the scientific aspect, but you can also learn the practical applications and that is how I found out that I am a Celiac who reacts to products that are "made in a facility that also processes wheat" In the beginning I dismissed this as a concern, but reading posts here...yeah, it was making me sick...cause I got well when I eliminated them. I couldn't have known that or tried it without the input of other's here.

...and for what it's worth....

Don't burn your bridges...

It takes a village to heal a Celiac.

This is my village and their knowledge helped me heal.

Amen.

[psawyer]

  On 7/4/2012 at 4:59 PM, Skylark said:

A random blog with year-old dead links to the Canadian Kraft site...

I missed this key point until now. While web ingredient lists are of some use, they may not correspond to the product you have in hand--it may be older (or newer) than the list. But do be sure that if you are looking at a list online, that it is for the country where you live. Sometimes ingredients differ among countries for identically named products.

The classic example is Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce. In the US it is made with distilled vinegar, and is gluten-free. In all other countries (including Canada) it is made with "Malt Vinegar from Barley" as the first ingredient.

[IrishHeart]

  On 7/5/2012 at 11:45 PM, eatmeat4good said:

...and for what it's worth....

Don't burn your bridges...

It takes a village to heal a Celiac.

This is my village and their knowledge helped me heal.

Amen.

amen, girl.

[IrishHeart]

  On 7/6/2012 at 12:50 AM, psawyer said:

The classic example is Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce. In the US it is made with distilled vinegar, and is gluten-free. In all other countries (including Canada) it is made with "Malt Vinegar from Barley" as the first ingredient.

yes, and Cavernio also posted a thread with a list for Barbour's spices in another thread, which I see is in Canada.

[Lisa]

Cavernio has more than enough information to make her/his judgement.

Maybe we can move on. Maybe

[Cheryl-C]

I eat Kraft foods all the time. In fact, Kraft now gets the money I used to spend on PC products (and then some - ouch!) because they disclose gluten ingredients on their labels, and as far as I know, PC doesn't. I have never been glutened by a Kraft product, ever.

Is it possible that a Kraft food product can make you sick? It's possible. Anything is possible. But I commend companies like Kraft who go the extra mile to be as clear as possible.

Any time you eat anything at all, you're putting yourself at risk - if not for gluten, then perhaps salmonella, or e.coli, or something else. Food is tricky, and as a customer (as opposed to a grower/farmer) you never know 100%. It's refreshing to see a company do what it can to communicate well with the celiac community.

As for the legalese ... well, unfortunately we live in a litigious world. It would be nice if companies didn't have to issue a CYA statement, but there are too many sue-happy people out there. A business has to look after itself.

Incidentally, I trust the information I find on here way more than I trust information from anywhere else. Perhaps by "gluten-free" someone meant "not containing gluten-ingredients" which (for most) would likely be a safe option? No one here is out to get you or mislead you or get you sick. We're all in the same boat.