Interplay Between Gluten And Dairy

[Kat L]

I've been off of gluten since December 2012, and have been experimenting with dairy-free for the last month and a half.  I went off of dairy because I kept getting gluteny-reactions despite being VERY careful and really not taking any risks.  Since being off of dairy, I haven't had any of my hyper-sensitive gluten reactions.  I have done 2 dairy challenges (both social situations where it was much easier just to do a dairy challenge rather than explain I may not be able to eat dairy either...) and I didn't have any specific reaction to the dairy except maybe for some increased joint pain and stiffness, particularly in my hands.  (Hard for me to discern because on one challenge I had used an electric sander for several hours the same day and on the other challenge occasion I had driven about 350 miles that day with my usual death-grip on the steering wheel).

 

Does anyone else have similar experiences where eating dairy makes one more sensitive to gluten?  Do you have any reactions other than stomach reactions to dairy?

 

Thanks!

 

[julissa]

Hi, after I went gluten free in November I immediately started feeling better with many of my symptoms. I was however, still getting queasy feelings in my stomach from time to time. I cut out dairy, and replaced my milk with soy, and other products like yogurt with almond. I still was getting sick. so I went for allergy testing and found out I am allergic to dairy and soy. made perfect sense to me. once I cut both of those out, I felt fantastic.

 

eating gluten soy and dairy free is no picnic, but the way I feel is worth a million!

 

good luck

[mamaw]

gluten  and  dairy  are  broken  down at the tips  of the villi.. That is  why  some  feel better  removing  dairy  as well...lactose  is  the  sugar in  dairy,  casein  is the protein in  dairy....

[answerseeker]

I just posted about this, you can see the post titled does lactose cause the same symptoms as gluten.

 

My joints have been so bad this last week, my neck hurts and my fingers hurt and even holding my phone for a short while causes pain. This all seemed to come on when the gluten intolerance came on so I think for sure it's related. I used to eat yogurt almost daily as it's one of my favorite foods but now I get the joint pain along with respiratory symptoms literally within minutes.

 

My dairy symptoms are gurgling, joint pain and stiffness (hands, feet, neck, shoulder) bloating, runny nose, ears get plugged up, lots of mucous in my throat,  coughing, shortness of breath.

[nvsmom]

I get the same GI symptoms from dairy as from celiac disease. I'm not willing to reintroduce dairy to test if my joint pains were related to dairy consumption... While I do miss a good chees, it's not worth risking the pain at this time.

[Pegleg84]

i'm also gluten, dairy, and soy free. That seems to be a fairly common combo for Celiacs. I didn't go dairy free until 2 years after going gluten free, and that after worrying that I might have some serious inner-ear problems. Cutting out dairy almost cleared that up, but going soy free made the real difference. (I can have a tiny bit of dairy with little problem, but any amount of soy knocks me out worse than gluten).

 

I've seen some theories (I'll try to hunt down the research) that because cassein (dairy protein) and soy protein molecules have a similar structure to gluten, our guts think "oh, that looks like gluten. I don't want to deal with it." However, over time some people have managed to reintroduce things back.

 

I'm not sure about dairy making you super sensitive to gluten. I've always found its the other way around.

 

Yep, eating gluten/dairy/soy free is a pain in the arse, but it's worth it.

[Pegleg84]

Oh dear, I seem to have sent myself down a google-rabbit hole.

 

This is the theory about cross-reactivity (body thinking other food proteins are actually gluten). Please ignore all the testing crud, but it's the best visual explanation of what might be going on:

Open Original Shared Link

 

However (and this has probably already been discussed elsewhere on the forum, I'm sure), turns out there's only ONE LAB doing testing for these so-called cross-reactive foods, and that they don't have any real scientific backing, so it might all be bunk.

 

However, I also found this, suggesting that intolerances might cause similar damage to the intestines as does gluten (but I'm not sure what evidence backs that up either):

Open Original Shared Link

 

Just some interesting things to look into. Not sure how valid any of it is, though the U Chicago centre is known to be reputable.

[kareng]

Oh dear, I seem to have sent myself down a google-rabbit hole.

 

This is the theory about cross-reactivity (body thinking other food proteins are actually gluten). Please ignore all the testing crud, but it's the best visual explanation of what might be going on:

Open Original Shared Link

 

However (and this has probably already been discussed elsewhere on the forum, I'm sure), turns out there's only ONE LAB doing testing for these so-called cross-reactive foods, and that they don't have any real scientific backing, so it might all be bunk.

 

However, I also found this, suggesting that intolerances might cause similar damage to the intestines as does gluten (but I'm not sure what evidence backs that up either):

Open Original Shared Link

 

Just some interesting things to look into. Not sure how valid any of it is, though the U Chicago centre is known to be reputable.

 

 

If you also look at the Univ of Chicago site you will see that they say there is no scientific evidence for cross-reactivity and the "lab" you refer to has no scientific basis for these "tests".

 

Open Original Shared Link

What’s with all the talk about certain types of food causing “cross-reactivity?”

There is not yet reliable data about cross-reactivity. As for the alleged possibility that many gluten-free foods or drinks (such as coffee, milk, orange juice, etc.) would trigger symptoms in celiac individuals due to hidden antigens mimicking gluten or cross-reacting with anti-gluten antibodies, it must be clearly stated that this is all false information, devoid of any scientific basis, and must be rejected as untrue.

[Pegleg84]

Yep, I've definitely thrown the cross-reactivity idea out the window. When all the info for it is linked to testing provided by only one lab, you have to get a little suspicious.

 

Instead there seems to be a bit more evidence than I thought to the possibility that other intolerances (dairy, soy, etc) could cause villous atrophy. Whaa? I had no idea. Not sure how far that's been studied though.

 

In any case, there probably is a link that if you eat something you're intolerant to, its going to make your reactions to another food you have problems with even worse.

[Kat L]

Thanks so much for all of the info and for sharing your own symptoms.  I'm actually really surprised that so many things can potentially cause villous atrophy other than celiac, but it makes sense.  Since it's so common for people to have similar reactions to gluten, dairy, and soy it's probably best if I avoid it all.  I think will do a little bit more testing/challenges to see if I can narrow down what kind of reactions I have to dairy and soy, to see if I can tolerate it every so often (cheese, especially).  Now, I just need to figure out how I can work 10+ hours/day, have a life, and never eat any processed foods...

 

Btw, I have not actually been diagnosed with celiac.  I had negative blood tests and biopsy results (6 locations), though I did test positive for the gene and have had some pretty bad vitamin levels.  So, I could just be very sensitive/intolerant to gluten, or have had false negatives.  Either way, I treat it as celiac to be safe and because my reactions are very severe.

[mommy2krj]

I am not diagnosed as lactose intolerant. Nor am I Celiac. My little guy is Celiac though. Now, that being said....

 

I feel better since going gluten free with my 6 yr old (yup, been tested).

 

Ever since having my daughter 18 (almost 19 years ago, gasp!) I haven't been able to eat ice cream or drink hot chocolate (the mixes from the store). I mean, within an hour I get violently ill. It's horrible. While I was pregnant with my little guy, I could eat ice cream. It was wonderful! No reactions of any kind....I thoroughly enjoyed that!

 

Now though, back to the same violent reaction. However, now I'm scared to try chocolate milk because the last time I had it, same thing.

 

But I can eat cheese no problems.

 

Makes me curious to see, if, in a couple months/year of being gluten free with the little guy if I'll be able to tolerate any of this stuff again.

 

Really makes you think, doesn't it?

[Kat L]

I would be A-OK if I only had a problem with lactose and not with casein (e.g., could eat aged cheeses but not fresh milk or ice cream).  I actually randomly came across some articles while browsing Wikipedia that say that the peptides that result from digestion of casein and gluten proteins actually have an opioid effect on the brain (see wiki articles on casomprohins and opioid peptides).  It makes perfect sense that I am truly a cheese junkie...just jonesing for a cheddar fix...

[mommy2krj]

I would be A-OK if I only had a problem with lactose and not with casein (e.g., could eat aged cheeses but not fresh milk or ice cream).  I actually randomly came across some articles while browsing Wikipedia that say that the peptides that result from digestion of casein and gluten proteins actually have an opioid effect on the brain (see wiki articles on casomprohins and opioid peptides).  It makes perfect sense that I am truly a cheese junkie...just jonesing for a cheddar fix...

It's funny because I never really liked cheese at all until I moved in with my husband. He is a cheese junkie as are both my boys, my daughter is pretty much like I was at her age....cheese on pizza is necessary and ok on some sandwiches as long as it's melted!

Now though? Now I would miss cheese. I've gone from only liking the nasty processed stuff to "ruining" my youngest as he won't even touch it! Don't buy the shredded stuff either. Cheese would be sorely missed in our house. I think my husband would have a bigger issue giving up cheese than beer. So the opioid effect would be in play here for sure!