The Histamine Connection

[Mtndog]

I just had a drastic realization today. I upped a medication I'm on (Seroquel) which at this level mostly works as an anti-histamine and sleep aid. It's like the last six weeks with unexplained nausea vomiting and symptoms of a very irritated intestine are gone! My mood is better, I have more energy, appetite etc.

I also have this effect from phenergan which I take when glutened for nausea.

So, I'm thinking MAYBE I have a histamine problem. I have just started doing some research about this but I thought I'd throw it out to the board to find out what people knew about histamine intolerance/high histamines/food intolerance.

Ironically, I noticed several of the foods I don't tolerate well- legumes, soy, red wine- are HIGH in histamines!

Bring on the research/personal experiences!

[UR Groovy]

Here's a quote from the Mayo Clinic site, not about the histamines you may take in, but the histamines your body will produce to ward off perceived offenders

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" In a true food allergy, your immune system mistakenly identifies a specific food or a component of a food as a harmful substance. This causes certain cells to make antibodies to fight the culprit food or food component (the allergen). The next time you eat even the smallest amount of that food the antibodies sense it and signal your immune system to release histamine and other chemicals into your bloodstream. "

[Mtndog]

Thanks fajitas! That's what is confusing me- I was tested for over 100 allergens and was oficially allergic to NOTHING (not even dust mites ).

I'm wondering if there is some connection between foods high in histamines and feeling uggy or if it's possible that your body can naturally produce more histamines.

[UR Groovy]

Yeah, I was wondering for a while if antihistamines would help with my situation because of this. I found a ton of info while I was investigating food allergies & general allergies because there seems to be a pretty obscure connection between my condition (not celiac?

[Generic]

I also wondered about the histamine thing. I was recently tested for a whole bunch of allergies and it came back I wasn't allergic to anything. I know I react to pollens, mildews, chalk dust, trees. etc. But I also wonder since I had accupuncure done to calm down my allergies, if that has effected the test results some how.

[jerseyangel]

Hi Bev,

I'll weigh in here with what I know from personal experience.

As you know, I had symptoms that turned out to be Celiac for years. In probably the late 80's, an ENT put me on Claritin, which was then new and by prescription. I noticed it calmed my stomach, and long story short, ended up taking it daily for over 15 years! I didn't understand it at the time (and still really don't ) but I always felt better while on it and was afraid to not take it.

I did go off it finally when I began to go gluten-free. I still use it this time of year, and as needed. I'm trying to take as few meds as possible (I take 2 for BP), so I don't use it routinely--although I did just have a mini-revelation of my own! Could it be a coincidence that my additional food intolerances showed up at about the same time I got off the Claritin? Or maybe it's just because of the gluten-free diet.....

I also was allergy-tested last spring and was not allergic to any foods--but was highly allergic to dust mites and mildly to cats.

I am very intolerant to legumes, soy, corn, dairy (casein), tapioca and coconut. I know some of these are high in histimine, but don't know about all of them. I also love wine, but don't tolerate it well. No GI issues, but a feeling of fullness in my head after one glass.

Are we ever going to get all of the pieces put together?

[CarlaB]

I think there is a lot we don't know about histamines/antihistamines. It's recommended to Lyme patients to take Benadryl for a "herx" (Herxheimer reaction from bacterial die off). The Benadryl neutralizes the toxins, so it helps even though the herx is not an allergic reaction.

I am wondering is that's also why the antihistamines seem to help with food intolerances.

[Mtndog]

It's so strange! we ARE going to figure this out. Here are some of the interesting links I found. Not all of them are "scientific" but as we know, scientists are human.

Carla- Can you explain herxing?

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Still doing research and will see my GI today and aske her what she thinks!

[UR Groovy]

Okay, I

[jerseyangel]

Kat,

We didn't mean to imply that antihistimines do anything for Celiac. It's the other food/enviromental intolerances that seem to be involved.

Years ago, when my doctors had mostly given up on finding the cause of my symptoms, I was given steroids. Prednisone pills, and then Decadron injections. The injections worked wonders--for a few months. I know now that it was helping the inflammation in my intestine--I did not know that then.

Unfortunately, all of the steroids, coupled with the numerous rounds of antibiotics, have resulted in what I feel is a leaky gut. This is in addition to the Celiac--which was the real problem all along. Too bad no one ever thought of it.

[CarlaB]

Bev,

A Herxheimer reaction, or herx, is when the bacteria die off and leave toxins for the body to eliminate. It happens with Lyme treatment, usually on a cyclical basis. I get them every 28 days. Mine are pretty disabling ... I sometimes even need help to walk to the bathroom! After each herx the bacterial load is slightly lower, so you are supposed to feel a little better after each one. My bacterial load must be really high, because I haven't had that effect yet.

I don't really know why the Benadryl helps. I haven't tried it because I feel like I'm taking too many meds already.

[Rachel--24]

Bev,

I did a low histamine diet last summer. Avoiding these foods does help me....I'm still following that diet. ...but I still have alot of other stuff I'm avoiding too.

I posted alot of scientificness about the histamines on the OMG thread sometime last year. I had also asked the Dr.'s to test my histamines levels...which turned out to be normal. I did a urine test as well as a blood test.

I have different Dr.'s now....they say I just have alot going on with my system getting overloaded with toxins. My body is in a reactive state....I think it just helps for me to not add to it by eating foods high in histamine.

My body seems to have a hard time breaking down even natural chemicals such as histamine. I dont have any IgE allergies at all.....just a toxic body which cant handle much right now.

I've started treatment for detox. Eventually this should fix the problem...I hope.

I dont take any antihistamines....although I know they can help for some people. As Carla said...they can calm down the reactions caused by a toxic overload. I just dont take anything because my system is way too sensitive. I might try something later on.

Last year I took an antihistamine used for treating Leaky Gut (Ketotifen). It reduces histamine and imflammation in the gut. Unfortunately it didnt help me out much because my problem is more extensive than just treating leaky gut. Its something I may try again down the road.

For now I'm just doing what I can to get rid of the toxins and get my system out of this highly "allergenic" state.

[UR Groovy]

Unfortunately, all of the steroids, coupled with the numerous rounds of antibiotics, have resulted in what I feel is a leaky gut. This is in addition to the Celiac--which was the real problem all along. Too bad no one ever thought of it.

Man, that leaky gut thing (what a disasterous condition) - I don't really understand what that means, exactly, but it seems to me that it's all connected in some way - my guess would be the resulting inflammation. I think the inflammation is the problem with everyone here - Celiac, Allergies, joint problems, my crap (no pun i intended) ... wouldn't it be nice if it would all just go away? Can we just make it all go away???

Well, at least we know one thing: Gluten plays a large part. At least we've figured that out !

Hi Patti, I just thought I'd mention the Celiac not being affected by anti-histamines so nobody could come in and yell at me for having a crazy theory. I'm a little paranoid, you see

Edited: I

[jerseyangel]

Edited: I

[UR Groovy]

Please don't feel that way, Kat.... We can all learn a lot from each other.

Off subject:

No, I'm really stoked this subject came up. I just know that I don't know much. I'm not gonna go eat worms or anything

[UR Groovy]

Please don't feel that way, Kat.... We can all learn a lot from each other.

Off subject:

No, I'm really stoked this subject came up. I just know that I don't know much. I'm not gonna go eat worms or anything

[Mtndog]

Off subject:

No, I'm really stoked this subject came up. I just know that I don't know much. I'm not gonna go eat worms or anything

No worm eating allowed at all!

OK- thank you all so much for your input! I saw my GI today (who I can't say enough good things about!) and told her EVERYTHING about the histamines/anti-histamines and bacterial overgrowth and I am scheduled to have the Small Intestine Bacteria Overgrowth (SIBO) test on April 13. She thinks that in addition to celiac, I may have bacteria built up in my intestines that is causing these flares. So we'll see where that leads.

No, anti-histamines definitely would not help celiac (which I CLEARLY have) but they may help the symptoms I get when an offending protein slips by (this whole episode started after I was clearly glutened). But the episode didn't resolve until I upped an anti-histamine.

She also tested my tTG to see if I am getting gluten from a hidden source. Thanks for all your input!!!!!!!!!!!

[Judyin Philly]

HI BEV,

tHANKS SO MUCH FOR THE POST.

I'M WATCHING WITH INTEREST.

QUESTION.

I THOUGHT THAT I READ ON HERE A WHILE BACK THE CLARITIN HAD CASEIN IN IT...

PLEASE ...I COULD BE WRONG AND WOULD LOVE TO BE CORRECTED...I TAKE CLARITIN D 12 EVERYMORNING.

FOR THE PAST 2 WEEKS I GO INTO A SNEEZING FIT (ABOUT 15) AFTER EVERY MEAL..DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I EAT...I SNEEZE...

OK ALL YOU EXPERTS...ANY THEORIES???

JUDY

[Mtndog]

HI BEV,

tHANKS SO MUCH FOR THE POST.

I'M WATCHING WITH INTEREST.

QUESTION.

I THOUGHT THAT I READ ON HERE A WHILE BACK THE CLARITIN HAD CASEIN IN IT...

PLEASE ...I COULD BE WRONG AND WOULD LOVE TO BE CORRECTED...I TAKE CLARITIN D 12 EVERYMORNING.

FOR THE PAST 2 WEEKS I GO INTO A SNEEZING FIT (ABOUT 15) AFTER EVERY MEAL..DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I EAT...I SNEEZE...

OK ALL YOU EXPERTS...ANY THEORIES???

JUDY

JUDY- THEY DO HAVE LACTOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Claritin tablets contain 10 mg micronized loratadine, an antihistamine, to be administered orally. They also contain the following inactive ingredients: Corn starch, lactose, and magnesium stearate.

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[Judyin Philly]

WELL I'LL BE DAMNED (_______________) fill in the blanks.

the pharmacist said they were ok

so could this be part of it????????????????? she asks with the gun to her head???????????

thanks bev

other things make me sleepy.

can you just go off those...?

been taking for years.

think i'm going to take my blankie and go to bed.

hugs

judy

[Mtndog]

WELL I'LL BE DAMNED (_______________) fill in the blanks.

the pharmacist said they were ok

so could this be part of it????????????????? she asks with the gun to her head???????????

thanks bev

other things make me sleepy.

can you just go off those...?

been taking for years.

think i'm going to take my blankie and go to bed.

hugs

judy

Judy- the info and link I posted may have been about the OTC Claritin. Maybe the prescription strength is different!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO GUN TO YOUR HEAD!

I THINK you can just go off Claritin- there's no side effects but I would call your doctor first. It blows my mind that it can be so difficult to find out what the heck is in a drug!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jerseyangel]

Judy,

You can go off Clatitan yourself--I took it for years, and just stopped one day after I started the gluten-free diet. I had no withdrawl symptoms or anything like that.

On a related note--I'm dairy free, sensitive to casein. I took a Claritin last night before bed hoping it would help me sleep and also help with the hay fever I'm having due to the pollen. Since I think Claritan has lactose, (could be wrong on that) I didn't have a dairy-like reaction at all.

I think if you're sensitive to lactose, it could be a problem--personally, I don't worry about the small amount of anything in my meds (except gluten, of course)--but that's because I've not had a problem there.

You could try something else and use it at night, if it makes you sleepy.

[ICWendy]

Hi,

Great topic! I have the histamine thing too. From what my alternative practitioner says, it's partly due to my liver not working properly, and he is working on that. I had hepatitis about twenty years ago, and maybe it never recovered. Here are some things that might help people to deal with histamines and inflammation. I am an RN, and intuitively feel that a medication called "gastro-crom", chromolyn sodium, taken with food would help with all of my food issues, but can't get anyone to prescribe it for me. It's considered an "older" medication, and doctors usually like to prescribe the latest and greatest drugs, including the new powerful anti-histamines. The problem for me is that they all cause urinary hesitancy, overly dry eyes etc. So, in the mean-time, I have gotten in the habit of drinking nettle leaf tea with meals at least twice a day. I like it (it kind of tastes like green tea), and it is such a great natural anti-histamine, but doesn't have any of the usual side-effects, and it works quickly (15-20 minutes max.), and lasts for a long time. It also comes in capsules, but with my allergies the back of my throat itches, so it feels soothing to drink the tea. The other thing that helps with inflammation in the gut from gluten reaction or my IC (see below) is to do warm castor-oil packs. You can google it, but it's basically soaking a natural cotton flannel with castor oil (found in the laxative department), and applying it to the skin, cover with an old towel, and a heating pad set on low-medium. Leave it on for 30-60 minutes to start with. It pulls toxins and inflammation out of the tissues into the lymph system, where it is eventually excreted. As your body becomes less toxic, you can tolerate longer periods of having it on. This treatment also brings pain relief, and is an oldie but goodie - also very inexpensive.

I also use Benedryl, Claritin, or Hydroxyzine (strong, sedating prescription antihistamine) for very severe reactions. For people unfamiliar with Interstitial Cystitis, which is a chronic inflammation of the bladder lining causing pain, frequency, and urgency, it's kind of a mystery disease, but one thing they do know is that IC patients have very high levels of histamine in their urine, so it makes sense that it's an immune reaction of some kind, and that antihistamines help.

Wendy in Portland.

[Judyin Philly]

WENDY GREAT POST

LEARNED ALOT

THANKS SO MUCH

JUDY

[Mtndog]

wendy - Thank you so much for your post! That was great info.