Sore Tongue?

[cyberprof]

He's been gluten free for a little over a month. He does not have obvious GI gluten-response symptoms, so I don't know if it is gluten but don't think so. He did have two times where he ate gluten (six months ago) and got a mouth sore or mouth ulcer not more than 20 minutes later. But this isn't like that and I think he's been reliably gluten-free.

Anyway, his tongue has been sore for a few weeks and he's having trouble making his words clear at times. He also has braces, so that may be part of it. His tongue doesn't have any spots or lesions and it is not like a mouth ulcer. His tongue is not very red, and not white or bumpy.

He uses gluten-free toothpaste and ACT Flouride Mint, which is also gluten-free and prescribed by his dentist because his teeth lack enamel (big surprise with celiac, right?). He has not changed any of this lately.

I read that sore tongue could be Sjodren's or fibro, but in a 14 y.o. boy this is unlikely, right?

Maybe he should stop the ACT for a few days?

Any other ideas?

~Laura

[RiceGuy]

Contrary to what the dental association wants people to believe, fluoride is a toxic substance. It's actually an industrial waste product, and when manufacturers needed a place to get rid of it, they chose our bodies, water supplies, etc.

Check here for some info: Open Original Shared Link

Other than that, I'd say look into some supplements. Just Google a symptom with the word 'supplement' after it, such as 'sore tongue supplement'. Here's a link I got when I searched that:

Open Original Shared Link

You can do the same to find what will help with teeth enamel too.

[finally diagnosed]

He's been gluten free for a little over a month. He does not have obvious GI gluten-response symptoms, so I don't know if it is gluten but don't think so. He did have two times where he ate gluten (six months ago) and got a mouth sore or mouth ulcer not more than 20 minutes later. But this isn't like that and I think he's been reliably gluten-free.

Anyway, his tongue has been sore for a few weeks and he's having trouble making his words clear at times. He also has braces, so that may be part of it. His tongue doesn't have any spots or lesions and it is not like a mouth ulcer. His tongue is not very red, and not white or bumpy.

He uses gluten-free toothpaste and ACT Flouride Mint, which is also gluten-free and prescribed by his dentist because his teeth lack enamel (big surprise with celiac, right?). He has not changed any of this lately.

I read that sore tongue could be Sjodren's or fibro, but in a 14 y.o. boy this is unlikely, right?

Maybe he should stop the ACT for a few days?

Any other ideas?

~Laura

Hi Laura, has your son been eating alot of acidy foods lately. ie: tomates, sauce, acidic fruits. sometimes when we eat too much of it, it can make our mouth and tongue feel funny. i usually cut back on this and make sure he is not eating any type of sourpatch candy (not sure even if it is gluten free, just in case). what you can do is take a little benadryl and malox and mix it in a cup and have your son swish it around in his mouth 2 to 3 xs a day. don't swallow it, don't rinse with water after. the benadryl will help with any little inflammation that you can't see visually and the malox acts as an antacid to the tongue. this works well. in the pedi's office we tell them to use this to see if it helps nine times out of ten it does. braces can also be tricky too. if he has the brackets that wrap around the teeth, this can cause havoc in the mouth as well. make sure at the ortho office that they haven't changed any of their products, example elastics etc. this might have a ingredient in it that the dental office doesn't reconize. good luck lorrie

[TrillumHunter]

Might be a stretch for a young boy....That's the last symptom that showed up before I was diagnosed with severe iron anemia. My serum iron was four. The way you describe it rings a bell for me. It wasn't like a spot was sore, it was the whole tongue. It didn't look red or raw, but it felt swollen. Also, I was having a heard time talking because it really felt like I couldn't control my tongue well. Look at his nailbeds and inner lower eyelid. They should be nice and red, not pale.

Good luck! If you decide to check this out, be sure and get a serum iron and serum ferritin.

[jewi0008]

Laura...

PLEASE feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more. But, I am a 25 yold female. I have had this mouth problem for 4 years now...it's so awful. I developed it right after I had my tonsils out. Then, people started telling me that perhaps I have food intolerances/allergies. I'm still not confirmed anything yet.

My mouth constantly feels raw and dry, but the problem, like you said, is that there is nothing actually visible. It's my tongue, the roof of my mouth and anywhere at varying times. It's chronically irritated and frustrated and yes, I have a hard time talking a lot, too! I have upped the vitamins, and some days it subdues, but has never gone away. I have NO IDEA what it is or what it's from.

I would love some advice for Laura's son and I...if anyone has any or knows. I'm currently df, sf, gluten-free, wf.

THANKS!!!

[Ursa Major]

Laura, it has NEVER been proven that fluoride does anything to help teeth. In fact, it has been linked to tooth enamel PROBLEMS and mottled teeth! Which is no surprise when you realize how toxic it is.

I have never allowed any dentist to do their fluoride treatment on my kids during checkups. Nobody will knowingly apply poison to my children's mouths!

Our area does not have fluoridated water, and studies have shown that we also have the lowest incidence of cavities in the county (but paradoxically, in the same newspaper article that was published by our medical examiner, after stating how great everybody's teeth are around here, he suggests everybody should give their kids fluoride to keep it this way! ).

But it sounds like you should, in addition to stopping the fluoride treatment, have your son checked for nutritional deficiencies. He might be deficient in ferretin (iron), vitamin D or B vitamins.

To help with the enamel it seems to me that giving him vitamin D, calcium and magnesium would be a better idea than fluoride.

[ksymonds84]

Hi Laura

just wanted to mention that I get alot of mouth ulcers when I accidently injest gluten or my other intolerances. My doctor suggested swishing pepto bismol in my mouth to calm down the acidity and it does work! I know it might sound gross to your son but it does ease the discomfort. Sorry he's going through this.

[cyberprof]

Thanks for the replies.

I should have mentioned that I started him on B12+ Folic sub-lingual about a week ago - it took me a while to find one that was gluten-free/CF. He has also been taking extra D and magnesium. So maybe this will help. I'm sure he is not absorbing nutrients correctly, based on his enterolab results.

He's only been on the flouride for six months. His tooth enamel problems (pits, worn enamel, tooth hyperplasia) started way before the flouride supplementation. In fact, we didn't have flouride in the water from birth-8 years for him, so the enamel problems are either heriditary or caused by celiac.

Anyway, back to the tongue. He doesn't eat sour candy or anything. He does drink OJ w/calcium now that he is CF but he doesn't drink too much. But he says the tongue actually hurts as opposed to feeling sore like after you eat something that scrapes the tongue. Mainly down the middle of the tongue.

His doc tested for anemia last year but refused to redo it this year. When we go in in six months to revisit the growth (or lack thereof) issue, he will have more blood work done to test hormones and I will insist on an anemia test. His lower eyelid looks nice and red, so that made me feel better.

But, boy, I'd love to have this kid healthy and growing. Crossing my fingers that 6 months gluten-free/CF will do some magic.

~Laura

[Ursa Major]

I wasn't really implying that the fluoride caused your son's enamel problems, I am sure it was the celiac disease that did that. But the fluoride is surely not going to help it.

Maybe you need to up the B12 intake? Is he taking a B vitamin complex? B vitamins work together, so just giving one isn't good. Extra B12 is called for, but he needs the rest of them as well.

I hope the supplementation will help, but of course, it can take more than a week for levels to build up to be helpful.

This sure is a tricky one!

[cyberprof]

I wasn't really implying that the fluoride caused your son's enamel problems, I am sure it was the celiac disease that did that. But the fluoride is surely not going to help it.

Maybe you need to up the B12 intake? Is he taking a B vitamin complex? B vitamins work together, so just giving one isn't good. Extra B12 is called for, but he needs the rest of them as well.

I hope the supplementation will help, but of course, it can take more than a week for levels to build up to be helpful.

This sure is a tricky one!

Thanks Ursa.

Yes, it's a combo B-vitamin. Can't remember all but B12 and Folic for sure.

~Laura

[veggienft]

A sore swolen tongue can be a sign of many things. But for a celiac it points to candidiasis. Yes the orange juice is probably causative because of the high sugar content, and possibly because of its natural dyes. I came to the candida realization through ingesting orange juice too. Likely as not your son has the same kind of problem at the other end of his digestive system too, but is embarrassed to reveal it.

Candida is a celiac opportunist. They go hand-in-hand. Celiac opens holes through the gut wall into the bloodstream. Candida is a fungus which grows on the gut wall mucous membrane in the presence of sugar. It dominates gut floura when ingested oxidants like chlorine and dyes kill off competing microorganisms. Candida is capable of linking spikes through the gut wall channels, and holding them open long after all traces of gluten are gone.

It's a model which is proven in some patients, but diagnosis in any particular patient is sketchy.

Stop feeding your son sweets, dyes and chlorinated water. Start him on a pro-biotic like plain live yogurt. You can't get rid of the candida, but you can control it.

I'm correct. But what if I'm wrong and this change of diet does no good whatsoever?

There's no cost for trying. If it doesn't work, you've fed your son a healthier diet for a while. If it works, then you have your answer. Keep it up.

[irish daveyboy]

He's been gluten free for a little over a month. He does not have obvious GI gluten-response symptoms, so I don't know if it is gluten but don't think so. He did have two times where he ate gluten (six months ago) and got a mouth sore or mouth ulcer not more than 20 minutes later. But this isn't like that and I think he's been reliably gluten-free.

Anyway, his tongue has been sore for a few weeks and he's having trouble making his words clear at times. He also has braces, so that may be part of it. His tongue doesn't have any spots or lesions and it is not like a mouth ulcer. His tongue is not very red, and not white or bumpy.

He uses gluten-free toothpaste and ACT Flouride Mint, which is also gluten-free and prescribed by his dentist because his teeth lack enamel (big surprise with celiac, right?). He has not changed any of this lately.

I read that sore tongue could be Sjodren's or fibro, but in a 14 y.o. boy this is unlikely, right?

Maybe he should stop the ACT for a few days?

Any other ideas?

~Laura

.

Hi, on the UK Coeliac and DH Site a member was complaining about a sore mouth and tongue,

making it difficult to talk, plus a slight rash that the were unable to explain.

.

After investigation by specialists it transpired they had Lichen Planus, read about it Open Original Shared Link

.

This may or may not help.

Best Regards,

David

[jewi0008]

Laura,

The B12 and/or B Complex will definitely help him. I take the B Complex. You need to make sure the B12 is methylcobalamin, though, NOT cynocobalamin. I think I might need to up the dosage.

I do not believe your son has that lichen p...I do not have that. You said he has nothing visible in his mouth, correct? Neither do I. That's one part that's hard with these forums is that when you write that his tongue is sore and irritated, people automatically think you mean canker sore sore...that's not what you mean, correct?

Is his pain alleviated by eating or does eating cause him pain? With canker sores and actual sores eating generally causes pain. This is not what I have...does he?!

Thanks Ursa.

Yes, it's a combo B-vitamin. Can't remember all but B12 and Folic for sure.

~Laura

[jewi0008]

TrillumHunter - how old are you? This sounds a lot like what I've had for the past 4 years. BUT...I don't think I have anemia, because all of my blood counts CBC come back within range. This is strange, though, because I'm always cold and bruise so easily? What gives?!

Might be a stretch for a young boy....That's the last symptom that showed up before I was diagnosed with severe iron anemia. My serum iron was four. The way you describe it rings a bell for me. It wasn't like a spot was sore, it was the whole tongue. It didn't look red or raw, but it felt swollen. Also, I was having a heard time talking because it really felt like I couldn't control my tongue well. Look at his nailbeds and inner lower eyelid. They should be nice and red, not pale.

Good luck! If you decide to check this out, be sure and get a serum iron and serum ferritin.

[Gemini]

He's been gluten free for a little over a month. He does not have obvious GI gluten-response symptoms, so I don't know if it is gluten but don't think so. He did have two times where he ate gluten (six months ago) and got a mouth sore or mouth ulcer not more than 20 minutes later. But this isn't like that and I think he's been reliably gluten-free.

Anyway, his tongue has been sore for a few weeks and he's having trouble making his words clear at times. He also has braces, so that may be part of it. His tongue doesn't have any spots or lesions and it is not like a mouth ulcer. His tongue is not very red, and not white or bumpy.

He uses gluten-free toothpaste and ACT Flouride Mint, which is also gluten-free and prescribed by his dentist because his teeth lack enamel (big surprise with celiac, right?). He has not changed any of this lately.

I read that sore tongue could be Sjodren's or fibro, but in a 14 y.o. boy this is unlikely, right?

Maybe he should stop the ACT for a few days?

Any other ideas?

~Laura

Laura.....a sore tongue is a HUGE symptom of Celiac and it can be caused by Sjogren's also. I know because I had a sore tongue for years, to the point where I had trouble talking and eating. No one knew what the problem was but when I was diagnosed with celiac disease and went gluten free, it went away, never to return. It took a little while though. Could it be that your son may be ingesting gluten somewhere or maybe cheating a bit on the diet when not at home? It can be so tempting for a teen to do so.

I also have Sjogren's and that will cause many problems in itself. The use of flouride is probably a good idea because it does strengthen the tooth. Many people have different idea's about that but as I don't want to lose my teeth and it has helped, I'm going with that. I use a flouride toothpaste that's prescribed by the dentist and don't use a mouthwash with it that contains fluoride and it seems to agree with me.

Have your son tested for Sjogren's....it's a blood test, to at least rule that out.

[cyberprof]

Gemini, thanks for the message. No, I don't think he's cheating because he REALLY wants to grow and he agreed- we didn't force him. He's the kind of kid that reads science textbooks for fun and has done some research on celiac.

He hasn't been gluten-free very long so the tongue pain may be a holdover from when he was eating gluten. It's possible there are hidden sources but since I prepare 99% of his food and have checked all his personal care products etc., I am pretty sure he's not getting gluten. Plus, we just started the B vitamin supplementation so we will give that some time to work. If the sore tongue doesn't go away I will have him checked for Sjodren's.

~Laura

[jewi0008]

Gemini - You said you have Sjogrens. Do you only have the oral part of Sjogrens or do you have the eye part as well? The reason I've never thought I have Sjogrens is because I don't have red, irritated eyes. My eye twitches a lot and I get floaters, but they don't hurt me or anything. It's just my tongue and mouth that feel dry/irritated. So, since you actually have it,do you know?

Also, you said once going gluten-free it went away BUT that it took a little while. What does "a little while" mean...did it take days, months or years?

Thanks for any and all help you can offer up!!

Gemini, thanks for the message. No, I don't think he's cheating because he REALLY wants to grow and he agreed- we didn't force him. He's the kind of kid that reads science textbooks for fun and has done some research on celiac.

He hasn't been gluten-free very long so the tongue pain may be a holdover from when he was eating gluten. It's possible there are hidden sources but since I prepare 99% of his food and have checked all his personal care products etc., I am pretty sure he's not getting gluten. Plus, we just started the B vitamin supplementation so we will give that some time to work. If the sore tongue doesn't go away I will have him checked for Sjodren's.

~Laura

[TrillumHunter]

TrillumHunter - how old are you? This sounds a lot like what I've had for the past 4 years. BUT...I don't think I have anemia, because all of my blood counts CBC come back within range. This is strange, though, because I'm always cold and bruise so easily? What gives?!

I'm 39 (and a half lol) You CAN have a low normal H/H and a low serum iron and ferritin. If your levels fall in the low normal range and you have symptoms, you should have your serum levels tested. Low normal just isn't tolerable for everyone. And, if your body becomes stressed in any way, you can easily fall below normal quickly.

"Normal" is relative to how you feel.