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mama2two

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mama2two Enthusiast

Oh gees, where do I start? I do a recap as briefly as I can. AT 4 years old my daughter started having mucus in her stools, distended gassy abdomen, forceful burping, abdominal pain, passing large amounts of gas, ulcers in her mouth, etc. Did some different testing, celiac panel came back negative, but pedi suggested try gluten free diet for the summer, diet made all these things go away, if she did get gluten, in two days she would have mucus again, we got better at avoiding gluten and she got to the point that all symptoms were gone. Now she is 6 almost seven, and we decided to finally see a pediatric GI doctor, to get some advice, and maybe more concrete answers. We had done testing through enterolab which showed that my daughter has a gene for gluten intolerance and a gene pre-disposing her to celiac disease, and said she should avoid gluten due to the reaction in her stool. This doc basically said that these results were null and void, and said that according to her panel she does not have celiac. She was concerned with her short stature and the fact that my husband and I are both tall. She said to put her back on gluten for a week and she expected her to have mucus in her stool during this time and we would do some stool studies( previous stool studies showed split fat in her stool). I asked her about "what if her gut has healed and it takes longer than one week, she said as long as she was not having symptoms, including any behavioral problems to keep her on gluten. Well she has been eating gluten for about a month or so now and she has had no mucus or complaints of abdominal pain, and she is happy to be eating gluten again. I got a hard time from lots of people having her on a gluten free diet without a definative diagnosis, even though I was just doing what my pediatrician advised me to do. But now life is easier with birthday parties and eating out etc., but I can't help but feel like I may be giving her something that may be doing her damage, and that makes me very uneasy. I am still waiting to see what happens, but I am thinking of asking her to repeat the celiac panel, since she has been having gluten. Following a gluten free diet is very hard and I don't want to impose this on her unnecessarily, but I don't want to feed her food that may cause her to develop cancer, or be infertile, etc. I seem to remember reading about a honeymoon phase that kids can have, between the ages of 6-11 or something, is this what's going on? I don't know, and I'm not sure what my next step should be if anything?! What to do?


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jerseyangel Proficient

I can only tell you what I would do if this were one of my sons--since she's doing ok on gluten, I would at this point consider this a gluten challenge and keep her on it for a good 4-6 months. The longer the better as long as she's feeling good. At that point, I would insist on them repeating the Celiac Panel.

I would remain very cautious even if it's still negative because years ago doctors told parents of Celiac kids that after their symptoms went away on the gluten-free diet, they could go back on gluten--and we now know that that was the wrong way to go. If it's Celiac, it won't go away even if the symptoms seem to.

Best of luck!

Pattymom Newbie

This is the struggle I feel with my kids who are not officially diagnosed. With my 3 year old, we did a month long glutne challenge and a scope and it showed nothing, the Gi said how great we dont' have to wrry about ogign to school and parties, etc. however, he knows are home is gluten free, as I am diagnosed officially, and he says it's a healthy diet and I can certainly keep her on it if I want. She did get behavioral symptoms and some constipation, though it's so hard to stick to a diet when the evidence doesnt' support you, and thus, neither do you many people. Her symptoms were awful on it, just enough to muddyeverything.

my son, 7, is also gluten free, following advice from a naturopath. he wasnt' tested before, and I regret that, though he has fewere stomach aches, he did not grow, gain weight, or improve his ADD like I was hoping. It's so hard to know.

Now my 13 year old son, had lots of GI complaints at age 5-7, we never tested for celiac then, I wasn't diagnosed yet, I didn't know and my then family MD wasn't useful. It went away on it's own mostly, and did come back with a vengance at around 12. He noticed that the symptoms were way worse when he ate gluten ( at parties, scout, etc) and took himself off in February. He now feels great, yet, has started cheating some, since, again we have no evidence and it's so hard when you are out to be different.

I would go with the few months nice long trial, and the repeat testing. the you can get a good answer.

Good luck.

Patty

Amyleigh0007 Enthusiast

I agree with jerseyangel. I would take this time as a challenge and have her officially tested at the end. I think that is a great idea.

  • 4 weeks later...
JAMR Newbie

I have identical 11yr old triplet daughters, I have celiac myself (genes positive, DH and diet proof). They tested negative on celiac gene, antibodies, yet have many but mild symptoms similar to mine. Eczema, issues in gut, slow to gain weight, lethargic, fat in the stool. I decided to put just one on a gluten-free diet for 3 weeks (and dairy and yeast free). The weeks is over tomorrow, her stolls have improved (1 a day from 2 or 3), less fat in the stools, better color, less muscle aches but having said that its not overly dramatic. I am expecting to use her return to gluten (and dairy and yeast) as a challenge. My fear is nothing really definitive comes out, so I might conclude that something else is responsible for the symptoms, like fructose or soy, or chemicals. Its frustrating, and I do not wnat her (and probably the other 2 girls) to have celilac, but at least it would be something that can be addressed. My own diagnosis took a few years, and plenty of trial and error. Now I have done it (and apart from the accidents, I am feeling like a miracle man.

I will just have to take it a step at a time, document symptoms, diet as we go and work with what I have got. Celiac is such a difficult one to pin, and I do not want to impose a difficult diet regime for no good reason. My concern is that the dna test was not done correctly and the antibody tests are only 80% good. I understand the dna test is definitive, al I have readsays that if dna is negative, then you cannot get celiac? Anyone hear any different?

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    • catnapt
      thank you so much for your detailed and extremely helpful reply!! I can say with absolute certainty that the less gluten containing products I've eaten over the past several years, the better I've felt.   I wasn't avoiding gluten, I was avoiding refined grains (and most processed foods) as well as anything that made me feel bad when I ate it. It's the same reason I gave up dairy and eggs- they make me feel ill.  I do have a bit of a sugar addiction lol so a lot of times I wasn't sure if it was the refined grains that I was eating - or the sugar. So from time to time I might have a cookie or something but I've learned how to make wonderful cookies and golden brownies with BEANS!! and no refined sugar - I use date paste instead. Pizza made me so ill- but I thought it was probably the cheese. I gave up pizza and haven't missed it. the one time I tried a slice I felt so bad I knew I'd never touch it again. I stopped eating wheat pasta at least 3 yrs ago- just didn't feel well after eating it. I tried chick pea pasta and a few others and discovered I like the brown rice pasta. I still don't eat a lot of pasta but it's nice for a change when I want something easy. TBH over the years I've wondered sometimes if I might be gluten intolerant but really believed it was not possible for me to have celiac disease. NOW I need to know for sure- because I'm in the middle of a long process of trying to find out why I have a high parathyroid level (NOT the thyroid- but rather the 4 glands that control the calcium balance in your body) I have had a hard time getting my vit D level up, my serum calcium has run on the low side of normal for many years... and now I am losing calcium from my bones and excreting it in my urine (some sort of renal calcium leak) Also have a high ALP since 2014. And now rapidly worsening bone density.  I still do not have a firm diagnosis. Could be secondary HPT (but secondary to what? we need to know) It could be early primary HPT. I am spilling calcium in my urine but is that caused by the high parathyroid hormone or is it the reason my PTH is high>? there are multiple feedback loops for this condition.    so I will keep eating the bread and some wheat germ that does not seem to bother me too much (it hasn't got enough gluten to use just wheat germ)    but I'm curious- if you don't have a strong reaction to a product- like me and wheat germ- does that mean it's ok to eat or is it still causing harm even if you don't have any obvious symptoms? I guess what you are saying about silent celiac makes it likely that you can have no symptoms and still have the harm... but geez! you'd think they'd come up with a way to test for this that didn't require you to consume something that makes you sick! I worry about the complications I've been reading about- different kinds of cancers etc. also wondering- are there degrees of celiac disease?  is there any correlation between symptoms and the amnt of damage to your intestines? I also need a firm diagnosis because I have an identical twin sister ... so if I have celiac, she has it too- or at least the genetic make up for having it. I did have a VERY major stress to my body in 2014-2016 time frame .. lost 50lbs in a short period of time and had severe symptoms from acute protracted withdrawal off an SSRI drug (that I'd been given an unethically high dose of, by a dr who has since lost his license)  Going off the drug was a good thing and in many ways my health improved dramatically- just losing 50lbs was helpful but I also went  off almost a dozen different medications, totally changed my diet and have been doing pretty well except for the past 3-4 yrs when the symptoms related to the parathyroid issue cropped up. It is likely that I had low vit D for some time and that caused me a lot of symptoms. The endo now tells me that low vit D can be caused by celiac disease so I need to know for sure! thank you for all that great and useful information!!! 
    • trents
      Welcome, @catnapt! The most recent guidelines are the daily consumption of a minimum of 10g of gluten (about the amount found in 4-6 slices of wheat bread) for a minimum of two weeks. But if possible stretching that out even more would enhance the chances of getting valid test results. These guidelines are for those who have been eating gluten free for a significant amount of time. It's called the "gluten challenge".  Yes, you can develop celiac disease at any stage of life. There is a genetic component but also a stress trigger that is needed to activate the celiac genes. About 30-40% of the general population possesses the genetic potential to develop celiac disease but only about 1% of the general population actually develop celiac disease. For most with the potential, the triggering stress event doesn't happen. It can be many things but often it is a viral infection. Having said that, it is also the case that many, many people who eventually are diagnosed with celiac disease probably experienced the actual onset years before. Many celiacs are of the "silent" type, meaning that symptoms are largely missing or very minor and get overlooked until damage to the small bowel lining becomes advanced or they develop iron deficiency anemia or some other medical problem associated with celiac disease. Many, many are never diagnosed or are diagnosed later in life because they did not experience classic symptoms. And many physicians are only looking for classic symptoms. We now know that there are over 200 symptoms/medical problems associated with celiac disease but many docs are only looking for things like boating, gas, diarrhea. I certainly understand your concerns about not wanting to damage your body by taking on a gluten challenge. Your other option is to totally commit to gluten free eating and see if your symptoms improve. It can take two years or more for complete healing of the small bowel lining once going gluten free but usually people experience significant improvement well before then. If their is significant improvement in your symptoms when going seriously gluten free, then you likely have your answer. You would either have celiac disease or NCGS (Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity).
    • catnapt
      after several years of issues with a para-gland issue, my endo has decided it's a good idea for me to be tested for celiac disease. I am 70 yrs old and stunned to learn that you can get celiac this late in life. I have just gradually stopped eating most foods that contain gluten over the past several years- they just make me feel ill- although I attributed it to other things like bread spiking blood sugar- or to the things I ate *with* the bread or crackers etc   I went to a party in Nov and ate a LOT of a vegan roast made with vital wheat gluten- as well as stuffing, rolls and pie crust... and OMG I was so sick! the pain, the bloating, the gas, the nausea... I didn't think it would ever end (but it did) and I was ready to go the ER but it finally subsided.   I mentioned this to my endo and now she wants me to be tested for celiac after 2 weeks of being on gluten foods. She has kind of flip flopped on how much gluten I should eat, telling me that if the symptoms are severe I can stop. I am eating 2-3 thin slices of bread per day (or english muffins) and wow- it does make me feel awful. But not as bad as when I ate that massive amnt of vital wheat gluten. so I will continue on if I have to... but what bothers me is - if it IS celiac, it seems stupid for lack of a better word, to intentionally cause more damage to my body... but I am also worried, on the other hand, that this is not a long enough challenge to make the blood work results valid.   can you give me any insight into this please?   thank you
    • trents
      The biopsy looks for damage to the mucosal lining of the small bowel from the inflammation caused by celiac disease when gluten is ingested. Once you remove gluten from the diet, inflammation subsides and the mucosal lining begins to heal. 
    • Theresa2407
      Our support groups in Iowa have tried for years to educate doctors and resource sites like this one.  We have held yearly conferences with continued education classes.   We have brought in Dr. Murray, Dr. Fasano, Dr. Green and Dr. elliott.  In those many years we may have had 2 doctors attend.  We sent them information, with no response.  I talked to my personal doctor and she said their training for Celiac was to show them a skinny man in boxer shorts and a huge stomach.  Saying if you see this, it is Celiac.  If it isn't in their playbook then they don't care.  Most call it an allergy with no mention of our immune system.  There is so much false information on the internet.  Then people don't understand why they can't get well and are acquiring more immune diseases. I mention this site to everyone.  Scott has working hard for the Celiac community.
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