Vegan Celiacs?

[Emme999]

Hello there. I'm Michelle and I've been a long time student of health/diet/etc. I recently read a book called "The China Study" and it has really rocked my world. It is based on one of the most comprehensive health/disease/diet studies ever done. It was started in 1983 and is actually still going on. This is the real deal too, done by *real* researchers - with 28 pages in the back of the book of peer reviewed journals documenting the studies and everything included in the book. It's basis is to move toward a plant based diet and significantly reduce risks for: cancer, heart disease, obesity, and diabetes. If you read the book, it's kind of life shaking.

So anyway, I kind of got it because I was somewhat "forced" into vegan world when I found out that I'm allergic to all components of milk, eggs, and (supposedly) beef. I'm not a PETA supporter or anything. I love animals but the health issues are what's leading me into this.

So I'm wondering - are there any celiacs out there who are vegans? How do you get the protein if you have troubles with soy along with the obvious problems with wheat (and TVP, seitan, etc.)? Does it even freakin' matter how much protein we get? I bought this rice protein powder yesterday (vegan) but haven't tried it yet. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know!! Thanks

[celiac3270]

I'm not vegan, so I'm not going to be able to help you much on this, but I just want to say that health-wise it is very important that you get enough protein. Fat insulates and helps with nerve signals, carbs are the only thing your brain will use for energy (that's what's wrong with the low-carb diet...), but protein does basically everything else--muscles, most hormones, any healing that needs to be done, etc. The main problem that might arise w/ a vegan diet is that you don't get all the amino acids, since veggies only have some of the essential ones. So basically, with veggies, get a wide variety and maybe do a search on amino acids or amino acids vegan....

I'll inform a vegan/vegetarian/veggie (I don't know the difference, so I can't specify which one) of this post

Oh, I highly recommend the Clan Thompson booklets, see Open Original Shared Link ....they list verification date, phone number, gluten status, and vegetarian status.

[astyanax]

some of my gluten-free food is also vegan - i guess they are trying to appeal to a larger audience. so definitely seek that kind of stuff out. i think my sister in law who's vegan eats a lot of beans. i know nuts have some protein. brown rice. hmm try doing an internet search for like protein + vegan + gluten free or something.

good luck ! report back with how it's going

btw vegan = no animal products of any kind (vegans who do this for animal rights reasons not health will also cut out leather products, etc.)

vegetarian = no meat

then there's like vegetarians who eat fish, vegetarians who eat chicken, etc. i forget what all those names are

i also met a kid once who was vegan, unless he'd hunted something

hope that helps you celiac3270

[Guest GFLisa0405]

Vegans eat no eggs,dairy products, fish, beef, poultry, pork (most even cut out honey-since its made by bees- and all animal products, like leather) lacto-ovo vegetarians eat no meat, but will eat dairy and eggs, lacto vegetarians eat no meat or eggs, but will eat dairy, and ovo vegetarians will eat eggs, but no dairy or meat. Semi vegetarians are those who add meat in once in a while, and pesco vegetarians eat fish (those these last 2 aren't really viewed as vegetarians by most vegetarians..). I was a vegetarian (id eat dairy, but no eggs meat, fish..) for a year up until 3 months ago. These are when my symptoms started developing for a gluten intolreance actually (i lived on cereal when i had to eat at the cafeteria..go figure...) and I really think it messed my body up, tho thats just my opinion. You really have to make sure you get eough protein, becaue it can have bad effects on you. The one thing about being on a vegetarian diet was that it prepared me for a gluten-free diet (always having to check labels and worrying about cross containmentation). I've noticed on these boards that there were other vegetarians who noticed a gluten intolerance, I have no idea if this will make sense but I had a theory. With a vegetarian diet you take out a lot of sources of protein (yes I know there are other sources, like beans) and having celiacs disease you're intolerance of the protein found in wheat, rye, barley, oats..(right?) so maybe theres some kind of a link. Also it seems like quite a few people start to have intolerances to soy, dairy, corn, eggs, nuts...all with sources of protein. Anyway, just a thought. If you do decide to go vegan, definately make sure you're getting enough calories and protein. You'll also ned to make sure your getting enough vitamins, ESPECIALLY b-12 and iron (vegans are usually deficient in these, and you'd be at even more of a risk because of being gluten-free)

[lotusgem]

Hi Michelle,

I was a vegan for years; that's the way I cooked for the whole family. It has only been nine months that I've known that I had celiac. Actually, I think that being vegan helped me to figure out eventually, that I couldn't tolerate gluten. Almost every vegetarian book extols the virtues of whole wheat products. It was very frustrating, not to mention confusing to me that whenever I thought I was doing something so good and healthy by eating whole wheat foods, I would have awful stomach aches and gas for days!

Anyway, the question about getting adequate protein on a vegetarian diet, much less, vegan, is an old one. This concern is typically used by well-meaning friends and relatives to scare someone out of moving to a vegetarian diet. Here is an excerpt from, "Vegan Nutrition, Pure and Simple" by Michael Klaper, M.D.:"When meat and dairy products are deleted from the diet, 50% of total calories-including half the 'empty calories', as well as 70% of the protein, and 40% to 50% of the 'B" vitamins are eliminated. Calories should be replaced by increased portions of grains and nuts, and the protein is replaced through increased portions of grains, legumes and seeds." Now, somewhere I read that there is nothing nutritionally significant exclusively found in gluten-containing grains that can not be satisfactorily replaced by gluten-free substitutes. Dr. Klaper also explains that, "Most of the concerns over Vitamin B-12 adequacy in the vegan diet seem to be more theoretical than real, and most vegan people seem to grow and function very well without ever taking a Vitamin B-12 supplement."...."Therefore, because Vitamin B-12 deficiency, though unlikely, can be serious, and because the measures to prevent it are simple and essentially risk-free, all people using the vegan nutritional approach should assure that they ingest a reliable source of Vitamin B-12 at least three times weekly. (Vitamin B-12 fortified foods.) This is especially important for pregnant and lactating women, and growing children." If you were to choose to use a suppliment to take care of this requirement,

"The Vitamin B-12 needs of children and adults alike should be amply met by the equivalent of one 25-microgram tablet of Vitamin B-12 taken once weekly."

I hope that this is helpful, Michelle. This being said, (you'll scream!), since going gluten-free, I've gone back to eating meat and eggs, but not dairy, because I'm allergic to casein. It was already difficult enough to eat vegan, and I just didn't want the added burden of cutting out gluten-containing foods on top of that. I felt like I was running out of too many options. Now, if you can manage to be gluten-free AND vegan, then more power to ya! I'd have real respect. It felt like a healthy diet, and it's a blessing to know that you have not been the cause of killing in order to eat.

My best wishes!

Paula

[aaascr]

Michelle,

I eat a mostly vegan and organic diet, due more to allergies than anything.

Since beans and nuts are out for me, my protein intake consists

of quinoa, brown rice, sunflower/flax/shelled hemp seeds in various forms.

Initially, I didn't think I needed a whole lot of protein either. Particularly since I'm

late 40's age group. But....., I do need protein...., most everyone does! Especially so for me since I am still trying to be an athlete. I was devastated when, with the onset of celiac last year, I lost all of my muscle tone and strength.

After researching and "upping" my protein intake I have almost gotten back in condition.

I would agree that eating plant-based foods (without chemicals and pestisides) are better - for me anyway.

If you look on the web, you should be able to find a site that can calculate what

protein amount is correct for you. Then if you go to a "calorie counter" site, you

can find out how much protein is in a particular food. I don't have the particular sites but a search should give you some options.

Good Luck!

[tarnalberry]

Adequate protein is important, and I would have to say that, while it should in no way be a problem getting adequate, complete protein on a vegan diet, I wouldn't say that it's a trivial question. Even though I do eat meat, if I'm not having soy, I do have to keep track of what I'm eating to make sure that there's enough protein. It's not hard, but it means being aware of your choices - picking quinoa or buckwheat over rice, for instance, as they are higher in protein. I say that based on the fact that I find it very easy to get too little protein in a day, even though I do eat meat! :-)

I believe the average recommendation for protein intake for someone who's not weight training or pregnant or have any other special needs is around 0.5 to 1g/kg of body weight.

(I don't follow a vegetarian or vegan diet because I don't eat soy every day - I may have a small sensitivity to it - and I tend to be hypoglycemic and find that I need too much protein in my meals to be able to do it without meat. I tried, as experiment, but without milk or soy, I couldn't even quite do vegetarian without getting symptoms.)

[Emme999]

Hey, please don't think I'm passing judgement on anyone who eats meat! I'm just wondering about this! I haven't even started the gluten-free diet yet so I'm dwelling in the realm of possibilities here

I just want to hear about your experiences! I honor and respect all of you, whether or not you eat meat!

*hug*

- Michelle

Thanks to everyone who's posted so far

[shimma]

Check out the Vegetarian Diet section of www.diet-portal.com. They have very interesting arguments regarding The Protein Myth.

[dperk]

I have been a vegetarian for 30 years. I still consider myself vegetarian even though I did eat eggs, dairy and occasionaly seafood. I am having a difficult time with finding foods I can eat now. I have been gluten-free for 3 months. I can't eat soy, eggs or dairy anymore - I seem to have developed an intolerance. I also have problems with all starches and sugars. So the protein thing is a problem for me also. I eat black beans, rice, lima beans, seeds, nuts and corn (although the rice and corn may be a problem too). I have lost 30 lbs., and I'm very underweight right now. I'm having such a hard time finding foods to eat that I have considered eating meat. But I really don't want to. So any help with this subject would be appreciated. I am so underweight now that my family is getting worried about me. I MISS MY BOCA BURGERS!!! Did the vegetarian diet full of gluten as a protein source give me more damage (just a thought)?

[Carriefaith]

I consider myself a partial vegetarian. I eat some "terrestrial" meat, but usually only on special occasions, so like once a month or so (sometimes not even that often). The only meat I will eat on a regualr basis is fish. I also stay away from dairy due to my lactose intolerance.

I am also very interested in eating healthy to prevent serious health problems like cancer. I eat a ton of fruits and veggies. Apparently, brighter colored veggies and fruits are the most beneficial for preventing serious illnesses. For example, watermelon, blueberries, cranberries, broccoli, tomatoes... However, there are some exceptions such as califlower and cabbage which have anticancer proporties.

I personnally don't feel like I'm missing out on protein since I do eat beans (Heinz beans in tomato sauce), peanut butter, fish, and I drink boost and soy milk.

[blueshift]

I miss my soy burgers as well but they have tons of gluten..Meat just doesn't go through that easily. It goes down into my stomach and doesn't make any noise or bloating, but constipates me...

I do eat fish but still am searching..I have only been gluten free about two or three weeks and it is still early for me...still adjusting. Any word on hummus? Is it a no-no?

[jenvan]

Ck out this website: Open Original Shared Link

[aaascr]

Though they are sometimes hard to find: Sunshine Burgers - the organic and regular burgers are soy and gluten free. They taste good too. I have had to request that Whole Foods and Harry's (atlanta ga) order them for me. When I can't get them I make Quinoa Burgers.

Basic mix:

Cooked Quinoa

Quinoa flour

egg replacer (ener g)

mushroom

onion

fresh ginger

salt and pepper

sunflower seeds - ground up

balsamic vinegar

agave nectar

(sometimes fresh garlic and/or cilantro)

Keep hands wet when forming patties.

bake for 20min 350 degrees in

glass baking pan coated with either

olive oil or coconut oil - they will stick!

Quinoa is fairly high in protein as are the Sunshine Burgers - plus they are

convenient if you cook n carry food.

[dperk]

Hummus should be safe. But read the ingredient list to make sure. I usually make mine at home so I know what it contains. I have purchased the dried version at Wild Oats after reading the ingredient list and found it to be ok.

[Erin]

Hey Everyone - I went to a Naturopath a few weeks ago b/c I've been gluten-free for 2 1/2 years, but still accidentally get gluten & get sick all the time! She recommended I omit meat & dairy from my diet (in addition to a lot of other things, including a detox & adding many herbal supplements). I had considered being a vegetarian (but still eating eggs & dairy) for many years, but after I was diagnosed w/ Celiac I abandoned that idea b/c I was already so restricted by omitting gluten. Well, I lasted for 8 days with no meat, dairy, or gluten. I felt good. Nothing miraculous like a massive amount of energy or anything (although I didn't crave sweets AT ALL). But, due to scheduling & food options when I was out of the house, I got a salad at BK w/ cheese on it & grilled chicken. I had a little bit of gastrointestinal problems the next morning, but not too bad. Then, at my husband's office party 2 days later, I had a little grilled fish with several vegetable side dishes & rice. The next day I had some of my usual gluten symptoms (feeling like I need to "go", but being "stopped up". Also - my husband told me I had "sick" breath - a symptom he noticed last time I had a gluten attack). So.... I probably got trace gluten at his party. Or possibly the meat, or added dairy ingredients in the food didn't sit well with me.

A friend of mine who is a vegan, read the book you mentioned - The China Study. That is why she is a vegan now. She's been very supportive of me switching over, but knows I have a lot of challenges b/c of the Celiac. If anyone wants to keep in touch & communicate about Celiac & Vegetarianism, I'd love to! I need all the support I can get. I'm so tired of being sick all the time.

If you want to contact me directly - defuji@earthlink.net.

Thanks! ~ Erin

[CarlaB]

Erin, you might try determining if it's the meat or the dairy that's bothering you. I would guess you got glutened at the office party. Dairy/casein is something many celiacs have a problem with in a very similar way to gluten. No sense cutting out meat if it's not really bothering you as it's a good protein source.

[AndreaB]

Did the vegetarian diet full of gluten as a protein source give me more damage (just a thought)?

I've often wondered if my vegan diet (only 3 years), with lots of gluten and soy made things worse with me and my family. Some of us also have problems with beans so we've gone back to the meat based diet. We only by natural meats, the best you can buy. For me, I've found that I don't have to eat as much on a meat based diet as I did before on a vegan diet. We are intolerant to gluten, soy and beans for the most part. Some of us are also intolerant to dairy so all of us are dairy free.

An interesting article called The Answer is found Open Original Shared Link

I believe the author of this has some very good points. I haven't even read the whole thing yet.

I've heard great things about China Study but haven't read it.

I think both kinds of diet can be healthful as well as unhealthful. A lot depends on how your body is and what it does better with. Obviously, protein is important. I had learned that most people get too much.

BTW, I tested low for b-12 and even got injections just before resuming the meat based diet again. I was on a multiple as well as having b-12 fortified "milks" and cereal to boot. Something was going on with me not getting enough on the vegan diet.

Anyway, the long and short of it is.....listen to your body. If you need meat, find some you can eat. If you don't then don't worry about it.

[alfinkel]

For ethical reasons, I've been vegetarian for 18 years and vegan for 2 years. I found out (blood tests positive, endoscopy/biopsy 100% conclusive) i was a celiac around 4 months ago.

My symptoms were mainly terrible heartburn, arthritis, and depression.

i've had my ups and downs on the diet, and the downs have come after specific instances where i can figure out where i wasn't careful enough (eating out, at relative's house). Overall, though, I've been doing better.

i spoke with a nutrionist and a GI specialist and am doing very well nutrion-wise with Tofu, brown rice, many beans (especially chick peas-- my fave), blackstrap molasses taken daily as a supplement, and more nutbutters. I've had lots of bloodwork done at the hospital and all of the nutritional markers they can measure (folate, vitamins, etc.) show up very well for me. I also take a good quality gluten-free vegan multi-vitamin, Cosamin Ds, and Calcium Citrate.

i am a 26 year old male athlete, and have had zero problems getting enough and varied enough protein...

you just need to be educated and fastidious about what you're eating. I do, however, miss my veggie burgers and seitan stir-fry!!!

As many of those on this board experienced, my downs have been much worse than prior to me starting the gluten-free diet, since my body is no longer so used to it. But, I'm working hard to eliminate that damn gluten as completely as possible.

if i do develop problems with soy, i would do my best to stay vegan, and in a worse-case scenario eat low-level bivalve invertebrates, which to me is better ethically (and probably health-wise) than dairy. I'm very much hoping to avoid that, i do love my tofu and edamame.

Of course, everyone's body is different and I don't mean to imply that those that struggle with the dietary limitations wrong or weak... This is just my take on things...

Best of luck to you.

[Rachiebaby]

My doctor actually recommended to me to try the vegan lifestyle until I've finished my healing, and then, if I want to, to add meat back into my meals. He said that because cows, pigs and chickens are generally grain-fed, they can carry the gluten in their system and it ends up in the meat. I tend to be super sensitive, even needing to make sure there is no gluten in my lipgloss, so maybe he was just being overly cautious. Anyways, thought I would share at least...

[CarlaB]

My doctor actually recommended to me to try the vegan lifestyle until I've finished my healing, and then, if I want to, to add meat back into my meals. He said that because cows, pigs and chickens are generally grain-fed, they can carry the gluten in their system and it ends up in the meat. I tend to be super sensitive, even needing to make sure there is no gluten in my lipgloss, so maybe he was just being overly cautious. Anyways, thought I would share at least...

They are can be grain fed, but gluten does not get in the meat. I'm also super-sensitive. I would make a bet that your doc just likes to promote the vegan lifestyle ... but that's just my guess.

[Heather22]

Here is my 2 cents:

I agree that you really have to listen to your body. I have done a considerable amount of research into the vegan lifestyle (for ethical/health reasons), but have given that up since my body was rejecting it. Many of the veg foods have gluten as a base, so that eliminates a lot. Plus, I don't do very well on beans, seeds or nuts, so I would be extremely limited.

What I have figured out the past few years is that I do well on a higher protein diet...and that includes meat, but no diary. I have picked up the Paleo Diet (especailly after reading The Paleo Diet for Athletes) and I feel great.

So, I guess my point is to listen to your body and find out what works best. Eventually you will come up with a plan that works great for you.

Best wishes,

Heather : )

PS. In my opinion, eating out has disaster written all over it (unless it is from a reputable gluten-free restuarant). There are a lot of high school kids that work in restuarants. Even though they are "aware" of Celiac and try to keep the wheat produects away from food, they are clueless about cross-contamination. I used to have friends that work in so-called "Celaic aware" restaurants. I wouldn't trust them to serve me a coffee...... That may be a big source of CC in your diet.

[TiffTiff]

im vegan for ethical reasons and ive just found out im celiac ugh.......but i mostly eat fruit n plant based food so it didnt harm my meals at all

[celtnut]

My dietitian is a vegan celiac for years. Eat grains and beans and you have your protein. Try new grains like Teff, Millet, Quinoa and and other Gluten free grains. Maybe, you have problems with soy and rice. I had problems and could not eat rice for my first few years. Any dairy can be a problem. By the way Quinoa bars they sell in the streets of Mexico City have more protein than the same size steak. TVP can have wheat but can, also, be all soy so it may be the soy that is giving you trouble like my daughter. She has problems with things like peas, carrots, lettuce, soy among other things. So try new grains and beans for your protein. Christina Priello is a cookbook author and television cook that can give you some ideas. By the way use Quinoa for couscous in recipes. If soy does not bother you use Bragg Liquid Aminos for soy sauce. It tastes like soy sauce and is gluten free and helps with the proteins. Good luck! you can do it. Meat is heavy and hard to digest so that may give you trouble, also.

[Janessa]

go to vegiac.com, it is for us vege celiacs