Couldn't Tolerate My Cherry Pie

[detritus]

I made my first gluten free pie from fresh farmer's market cherries. It was delicious, but sadly my body rejected it. I don't know if it's because I'm only 4 months gluten-free, and my body isn't ready for something complex, or if it's one of the ingredients. It's not cross contamination in my kitchen, because I live alone. If anyone has any ideas or has experienced sensitivity to any of these ingredients, please let me know; it would be very helpful! This is what went in it:

Crust:brown rice flour, white rice flour,potato starch, tapioca flour,brown sugar,salt,butter, egg,water

Filling: Sweet cherries,plums,sugar,salt,lemon juice,tapioca starch,cinnamon,Maker's Mark bourbon

It's so sad to have a delicious cherry pie sitting on my counter, and not be able to eat it

I'm taking it to the kids at work today.....

[my.oh.my]

It was delicious, but sadly my body rejected it. I don't know if it's because I'm only 4 months gluten-free, and my body isn't ready for something complex,

I agree that it's the only explanation since the ingredients sounds safe!

though you might want to check with a nutritionist (who is well familiar with Celiacs)regarding any other allergy you might have like lactose, eggs...

[Ahorsesoul]

I personally can not drink the bourbon.

[psawyer]

I'm not a bourbon drinker, but many here have said that Maker's Mark is gluten-free.

[detritus]

I'm not a bourbon drinker, but many here have said that Maker's Mark is gluten-free.

I know, you're right! That's why I used it, because I never eat anything without researching it first, and I did see a thread where a number of people said they drank it without any issues. But now I don't know, maybe it was the bourbon

[Ahorsesoul]

Other thought. If you made the pie crust yourself, did you roll it out with or on something that was contaminated with gluten. I.E. a wooden rolling pin could be contaminated with gluten.

[Mack the Knife]

Good point. Have you replaced the equipment you used for baking before you were diagnosed? Anything wooden like boards and rolling pins need to go. Stand or hand mixers and food processors need to be cleaned really, really well. Any baking trays or pans need to be looked at too. If they are old and scratched they should be replaced as they can harbour gluten.

Also be wary of any gluten free baking products that you used before diagnosis. I had to throw out all my sugars, baking powder, bi-carb soda, cornflour, etc because I couldn't be sure that I hadn't contaminated them with measuring spoons or cups while baking with regular flour.

The bourbon should be okay. Distilled alcohol doesn't have any traces of gluten left even if it is derived from wheat or barley. https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/gluten-free-alcoholic-beverages-r218/ But some Coeliacs do seem to react to distilled alcohol so it might be worth trying it without. I think you can get bourbon essence.. Maybe you can try that?

What kind of sugar did you use in the filling? Some icing sugar (confectioners sugar) has wheat flour in it. So you always need to check that.

Or it might just be too soon in your healing process to eat something so complicated. Or it might be an intolerance.

[detritus]

Good point. Have you replaced the equipment you used for baking before you were diagnosed? Anything wooden like boards and rolling pins need to go. Stand or hand mixers and food processors need to be cleaned really, really well. Any baking trays or pans need to be looked at too. If they are old and scratched they should be replaced as they can harbour gluten.

Also be wary of any gluten free baking products that you used before diagnosis. I had to throw out all my sugars, baking powder, bi-carb soda, cornflour, etc because I couldn't be sure that I hadn't contaminated them with measuring spoons or cups while baking with regular flour.

The bourbon should be okay. Distilled alcohol doesn't have any traces of gluten left even if it is derived from wheat or barley. http://www.celiac.co...ages/Page1.html But some Coeliacs do seem to react to distilled alcohol so it might be worth trying it without. I think you can get bourbon essence.. Maybe you can try that?

What kind of sugar did you use in the filling? Some icing sugar (confectioners sugar) has wheat flour in it. So you always need to check that.

Or it might just be too soon in your healing process to eat something so complicated. Or it might be an intolerance.

Hmm...that's a good point about the sugar...but I think I tend to use separate measuring cups for separate ingredients....I'll have to think about that. All of these gluten free crusts are so sticky that they have to be rolled out between waxed paper, so the dough never touches the rolling pin. Anyway, this crust was such a beast to deal with, it was more like making a sculpture than rolling a piecrust:lol:

Good to know about confectioner's sugar-I hadn't heard that. Maybe I'll try again with a piecrust w/out eggs & with less butter, and keep the bourbon out of the cherries. It's funny...this is such a scientific way to live one's life-cause/effect cause/effect: no effect-ok, data stored. I guess I'll get used to it over time.....

Thank you, everybody, for your thoughts and suggestions-it means a lot!

[mommida]

The first year I was gluten free I reacted to vanilla. It could have been cross contaminated from before diagnoses or my body wasn't healed enough to handle it. The vanilla top is smaller than the diameter of a dime, and I always use a clean measuring spoon (if any) during baking.

Would you mind posting your recipe? I have been looking for an awesome cherry pie recipe.

[detritus]

The first year I was gluten free I reacted to vanilla. It could have been cross contaminated from before diagnoses or my body wasn't healed enough to handle it. The vanilla top is smaller than the diameter of a dime, and I always use a clean measuring spoon (if any) during baking.

Would you mind posting your recipe? I have been looking for an awesome cherry pie recipe.

Wow, that must have been a hard one to figure out !!!

I used the cherry pie recipe from the current issue of cook's illustrated (except I used a gluten free pie crust, of course ) In it, they tackle the issue of using sweet instead of tart cherries, which don't soften up in baking as well as the tart varieties. My local farmer's market has been bursting with cherries lately, so I thought I'd give it a try. The filling was perfect! When I brought the rest of my pie to work, the five people there raved about it. I wasn't as thrilled with the crust, myself. I had made one gluten free pie crust prior to this one from the gluten free every day cookbook. It was okay, but it browned super fast although I tented it with foil the entire time. And that one was a one-crust pie. In the cook's recipe, they say you have to put a top crust on to keep in the moisture, that even a lattice would let too much escape. So I tried a crust recipe from the gluten free italian cookbook.

Well, I'm really wondering if she actually makes pies with her recipe, because it was about the consistency of a very sticky cookie dough. I couldn't detach it AT ALL from the wax paper I rolled it out between, so I scraped it off with my fingers and pressed it into the pan. Then for the top, I used a spatula to kind of scrape strips off, and lay them on top of the pie till it was covered. I tented it for the first 30 minutes, and then let it brown the last 40. It came out ok, didn't brown too fast and had a nice flavor, but I think I'm going to keep checking out other recipes or start tinkering with these. Anyway, here are the recipes-I highly recommend the filling:

Cherry filling:

2 red plums, pitted and halved (I couldn't find red plums right now so I used the closest thing I could find, which was a yellow plum-like fruit that was a hybrid of a plum and a nectarine, or something like that)

6 cups (about 2 lbs) pitted sweet cherries,halved

1/2 cup sugar

1/8 tsp salt

1 T lemon juice

2 tsp bourbon (optional) (I used it, but I couldn't taste it, so maybe I'd leave it out next time)

2 tablespoons tapioca measured and then ground

1/8 tsp cinnamon

Process plums and 1 cup halved cherries in food processor (I used my blender) until smooth. Strain puree through fine mesh strainer into large bowl, pressing on solids to release the juice, discard solids. (you have to keep pushing on the puree until you've got most of the juice out-it takes a couple minutes)Stir remaining cherries, sugar,salt,lemon juice,bourbon,tapioca, and cinnamon into puree, let stand at least 15 minutes.

(You can use tapioca starch/flour if you don't have a grinder, it's just a question of figuring out how much to use because it's measured whole first)

Mary's Baking Mix:

2 cups brown rice flour

2 cups white rice flour

1 1/3 cups potato starch

2/3 cup tapioca flour

For the crust I doubled the recipe so I could have a top crust,so here it is doubled:

2 cups Mary's baking mix

4 T tapioca flour

6 T brown sugar

1/2 tsp salt

1 and 1/2 sticks butter chilled (16 T)

2 eggs (I'm thinking here maybe I only used one egg, and that might have been why I had such a problem with the dough)

2 or more T ice water

Blend together dry ingredients. Cut in butter until mixture resembles coarse meal. Add egg and just enough water so that dough forms ball. Divide in half, form two slightly flattened discs, and wrap separately in plastic wrap. Refrigerate for 1/2 to 1 hour. Roll out first disc between two sheets of waxed paper and place in greased glass pie pan. Refrigerate for 40 minutes. Roll out top crust between waxed paper. Remove crust from frig, and fill with cherry filling. Place top crust on pie (somehow) and pinch together edges.With sharp knife make 8 evenly spaced 1 inch vents in top crust. Freeze pie 20 minutes.

Adjust oven rack to lowest position, place baking sheet in oven, and heat oven to 400 degrees. Place pie on baking sheet, and bake 30 minutes. (I tented it here with foil) Reduce oven to 350 (un-tent pie) and bake for another 30 to 40 minutes until juices bubble and crust is golden brown. Transfer pie to wire rack,(here's the hard part) let cool to room temperature so juices have time to thicken-2 to 3 HOURS Cut into wedges and serve.

Hope it works for you-I'll probably wait till next year's cherry season and try again;)

[Mack the Knife]

Good to know about confectioner's sugar-I hadn't heard that.

There are some cheap brands of cornstarch that are made with wheat instead of corn. They call it wheaten cornflour in the ingredients. You need to watch out for that too while baking and when ordering in restaurants.

[RideAllWays]

Some people react to tapioca, and lots of people react to dairy. Have you ruled out other intolerances?

[detritus]

Some people react to tapioca, and lots of people react to dairy. Have you ruled out other intolerances?

Hmmm...tapioca...I was wondering about that as a suspect. I just started making the gluten free baked goods, so it's my first exposure to it. I'm basically figuring out my intolerances as they crop up. I went off dairy for the first 2 months, but now it seems ok in little increments. There WAS a lot of butter in that crust,though. But I'm really starting to lean towards the tapioca as the culprit.

It's so hard, because I've been losing weight, but the things I try to think up to help raise my calorie intake make me sick

[dallady]

I made my first gluten free pie from fresh farmer's market cherries. It was delicious, but sadly my body rejected it. I don't know if it's because I'm only 4 months gluten-free, and my body isn't ready for something complex, or if it's one of the ingredients. It's not cross contamination in my kitchen, because I live alone. If anyone has any ideas or has experienced sensitivity to any of these ingredients, please let me know; it would be very helpful! This is what went in it:

Crust:brown rice flour, white rice flour,potato starch, tapioca flour,brown sugar,salt,butter, egg,water

Filling: Sweet cherries,plums,sugar,salt,lemon juice,tapioca starch,cinnamon,Maker's Mark bourbon

It's so sad to have a delicious cherry pie sitting on my counter, and not be able to eat it

I'm taking it to the kids at work today.....

I have read that not all spices are gluten free. Go on line for Tones/Durkee/Spice Islands. They will email you a gluten free spice list. Go on line for Mccormick and go to contact us and click on answer number 4 and they talk about gluten in their spices.

[psawyer]

From the McCormick site:

None of our single ingredient spices and herbs contain gluten. In addition, all of our extracts, including Pure Vanilla, are gluten-free. Some of our products do contain gluten. When WHEAT is the source, it will always be called out within the ingredient statement, and listed in bold.

We do not maintain a list of gluten-free products, as our formulas change from time to time.

So, some of their other products may contain gluten, but not the spices, herbs, or extracts.

I have never found spices to contain gluten. "Seasonings" are a whole nuther ball game.

[Mack the Knife]

Be careful of combined spices such as curry powder, garam masala, cajun spice, etc. Cheap brands sometimes add wheat to these. Alwayscheck sny kind of spice, seasoning or rub that has more than one ingredient.

[conniebky]

I can drink Canadian Mist, but not beer. Could it be that the pie was just too rich cuz you haven't had anything that "good" for a long time, I mean, I don't know if that makes sense.....

[RiceGuy]

I've found that I cannot tolerate any alcohol of any kind. Not even the synthesized stuff that McCormick uses in their extracts, which are all declared as gluten-free, and used by many on this board without issues.

As for the tapioca, some brands of tapioca pearls have other ingredients, so watch for that if you use the pearls.

As others have stated, it didn't have to be gluten which got you, but something your body just can't handle. Many find additional intolerances after going gluten-free. Try coconut oil in place of butter in baking. It is solid at room temperature. But for pie crusts, I've never needed any solid fats, even before going gluten-free. vegetable oil works perfectly, and I've never had to chill the dough either. The main difference between wheat crust and gluten-free crust is the amount of fat/oil to use. Wheat-based crusts use a lot of fat because that's how most of the gluten is defeated, otherwise the result would be too rubbery, not crumbly. Since gluten-free flours don't have all that much binding properties on their own, you simply do not need much oil at all to get a decent crust. Crumbling is one thing gluten-free flours are very good at doing

Lastly, the comments about baking utensils are correct. You really can't be too careful there. Even if the wooden rolling pin never touched the dough, your hands did! Then you handle the dough, and voila, contamination! Some other items besides the wooden ones simply cannot be cleaned well enough, such as flour sifters. Your strainer may have also been a source of contamination. Ever notice how stuff gets stuck between all those wires?

[jerseyangel]

Could be the tapioca--I can't tolerate it at all.

[detritus]

I've found that I cannot tolerate any alcohol of any kind. Not even the synthesized stuff that McCormick uses in their extracts, which are all declared as gluten-free, and used by many on this board without issues.

As for the tapioca, some brands of tapioca pearls have other ingredients, so watch for that if you use the pearls.

As others have stated, it didn't have to be gluten which got you, but something your body just can't handle. Many find additional intolerances after going gluten-free. Try coconut oil in place of butter in baking. It is solid at room temperature. But for pie crusts, I've never needed any solid fats, even before going gluten-free. vegetable oil works perfectly, and I've never had to chill the dough either. The main difference between wheat crust and gluten-free crust is the amount of fat/oil to use. Wheat-based crusts use a lot of fat because that's how most of the gluten is defeated, otherwise the result would be too rubbery, not crumbly. Since gluten-free flours don't have all that much binding properties on their own, you simply do not need much oil at all to get a decent crust. Crumbling is one thing gluten-free flours are very good at doing

Lastly, the comments about baking utensils are correct. You really can't be too careful there. Even if the wooden rolling pin never touched the dough, your hands did! Then you handle the dough, and voila, contamination! Some other items besides the wooden ones simply cannot be cleaned well enough, such as flour sifters. Your strainer may have also been a source of contamination. Ever notice how stuff gets stuck between all those wires?

Yeah, I haven't sifted anything since going gluten-free, but it's definitely been in the back of my mind to get a new sifter. And I guess the rolling pin concern will be a good excuse for me to go out and buy one of those fancy new silicon rollers Do you have a good pie crust recipe you'd be willing to share?

[RiceGuy]

Yeah, I haven't sifted anything since going gluten-free, but it's definitely been in the back of my mind to get a new sifter. And I guess the rolling pin concern will be a good excuse for me to go out and buy one of those fancy new silicon rollers Do you have a good pie crust recipe you'd be willing to share?

Check out the glass, stainless steel, or marble rollers. IMHO, silicon has no place with food. However, most decent gluten-free doughs just doesn't have the kind of texture/consistency to be rolled. One reason I haven't bothered to buy a roller yet.

That brings me to your question about a good pie crust recipe. I've thought about sharing one, but always decide not to because the recipe and prep method I use differ quite a lot from the traditional. So much so that I figure it would only frustrate others who attempt it for at least the first few times. It did take practice for me to get it right, simply because it is so unlike the way we typically think of pie crust. I'm under the impression that most who make gluten-free pie crusts are still stuck on the notion of using tons of fat in the recipe, not realizing that it is only working against them. I only use about one Tbsp of oil, possibly two at the most.

I don't roll it at all. Rather, I spread it with the back of a spoon. I use a pyrex pie pan, which, being transparent, allows you to hold it up to the light to see how evenly the dough is spread. Thinner areas will let more light through. Perfection is not necessary, as the filling will hide a whole lot. This method obviously cannot work for a top crust, but a second approach has worked for the few times I've added one. That is, I make the top crust in an entirely different manner than the bottom. Still, there are probably some kinds of filling for which my top crust wouldn't work either. In those cases, I'd suggest a crumble crust, or finely chopped nuts or some such.

The types of flour I find work best for pie crusts are bean flours, though a good blend with certain other types can yield a nicer texture than straight bean flour. Fava bean flour is my preferred type, followed by yellow pea, then white bean. I generally reach for buckwheat or teff as the second type, if any. Some types don't do so well, such as sorghum. The flours which I find do best are the ones which can absorb oil. Check out this thread for how well various flours absorb oil. I haven't tried to make it without bean flour in so long, I can't say how well that'd work. But if I were to try, I'd use buckwheat as the main flour, and maybe some teff. I do not use starches in any of my baking, but having experimented with them in other things, I cannot imagine they'd work very well for crust anyway.

The resulting crust is nice IMO. Slightly crispy, with not too much crumble, so it can be cut and served without falling apart. I know of no method to achieve an actual "flaky" texture in gluten-free crust. Though I have an idea involving rice flakes, or other similar items. I think the limitation is the same which precludes gluten-free puff pastry dough.

I'm sure I've become accustomed to the bean flours more than others who don't generally use them, so I may not be able to tell you if you'd like the taste. I use a little ground ginger to improve the flavor though. Sweetener does help too, though I usually don't bother. Perhaps I'm not so picky about it with all the fava flour I use. You could also make a cocoa or carob crust, if you want to cover the taste with something stronger.

If you're still interested, I suppose I could be coaxed into providing a recipe.

Incidentally, there was a post a few months ago (I think) about using meringue for a crust. That might work for those who can tolerate eggs, and want to try something different.

[sa1937]

The types of flour I find work best for pie crusts are bean flours, though a good blend with certain other types can yield a nicer texture than straight bean flour. Fava bean flour is my preferred type, followed by yellow pea, then white bean. I generally reach for buckwheat or teff as the second type, if any. Some types don't do so well, such as sorghum. The flours which I find do best are the ones which can absorb oil. Check out this thread for how well various flours absorb oil. I haven't tried to make it without bean flour in so long, I can't say how well that'd work. But if I were to try, I'd use buckwheat as the main flour, and maybe some teff. I do not use starches in any of my baking, but having experimented with them in other things, I cannot imagine they'd work very well for crust anyway.

Thanks for the link, RiceGuy! Very interesting info in your link on the various gluten free flours (before my celiac diagnosis and joining this forum). I think I need to print that out for future reference. I just started a new thread on making homemade gluten free bread since I am looking for bread recipes using different flours.

[detritus]

Check out the glass, stainless steel, or marble rollers. IMHO, silicon has no place with food. However, most decent gluten-free doughs just doesn't have the kind of texture/consistency to be rolled. One reason I haven't bothered to buy a roller yet.

That brings me to your question about a good pie crust recipe. I've thought about sharing one, but always decide not to because the recipe and prep method I use differ quite a lot from the traditional. So much so that I figure it would only frustrate others who attempt it for at least the first few times. It did take practice for me to get it right, simply because it is so unlike the way we typically think of pie crust. I'm under the impression that most who make gluten-free pie crusts are still stuck on the notion of using tons of fat in the recipe, not realizing that it is only working against them. I only use about one Tbsp of oil, possibly two at the most.

I don't roll it at all. Rather, I spread it with the back of a spoon. I use a pyrex pie pan, which, being transparent, allows you to hold it up to the light to see how evenly the dough is spread. Thinner areas will let more light through. Perfection is not necessary, as the filling will hide a whole lot. This method obviously cannot work for a top crust, but a second approach has worked for the few times I've added one. That is, I make the top crust in an entirely different manner than the bottom. Still, there are probably some kinds of filling for which my top crust wouldn't work either. In those cases, I'd suggest a crumble crust, or finely chopped nuts or some such.

The types of flour I find work best for pie crusts are bean flours, though a good blend with certain other types can yield a nicer texture than straight bean flour. Fava bean flour is my preferred type, followed by yellow pea, then white bean. I generally reach for buckwheat or teff as the second type, if any. Some types don't do so well, such as sorghum. The flours which I find do best are the ones which can absorb oil. Check out this thread for how well various flours absorb oil. I haven't tried to make it without bean flour in so long, I can't say how well that'd work. But if I were to try, I'd use buckwheat as the main flour, and maybe some teff. I do not use starches in any of my baking, but having experimented with them in other things, I cannot imagine they'd work very well for crust anyway.

The resulting crust is nice IMO. Slightly crispy, with not too much crumble, so it can be cut and served without falling apart. I know of no method to achieve an actual "flaky" texture in gluten-free crust. Though I have an idea involving rice flakes, or other similar items. I think the limitation is the same which precludes gluten-free puff pastry dough.

I'm sure I've become accustomed to the bean flours more than others who don't generally use them, so I may not be able to tell you if you'd like the taste. I use a little ground ginger to improve the flavor though. Sweetener does help too, though I usually don't bother. Perhaps I'm not so picky about it with all the fava flour I use. You could also make a cocoa or carob crust, if you want to cover the taste with something stronger.

If you're still interested, I suppose I could be coaxed into providing a recipe.

Incidentally, there was a post a few months ago (I think) about using meringue for a crust. That might work for those who can tolerate eggs, and want to try something different.

I'm definitely interested in your piecrust recipe, RiceGuy; this is me coaxing you (coax, coax) Any ideas of traditional this or that went out the window with the wheat flour. I come from a family of perfectionistic pie makers. My father and brother are both scientists, and approach pie-making like they're discovering a new gene. Me, I like to make them, but really, I love to eat them! Chicken pot pie, meat pie, pumpkin pie, cherry pie.....put a crust on it and I'm happy. I've never been a big bread eater; cakes and cookies, cupcakes and noodles, all of these I can give up without a tear. But pie.....gotta have it in my life. So whether I'm sculpting it into the pan or rolling a sticky mess, I'm willing to tackle whatever it is to make it happen. And I have a fairly adventurous palate, so I'm interested in whatever flavors different bean flours might impart to a recipe.

Thank you, by the way, for that terrific breakdown on the different flours. I'll probably do more baking when I'm further down the healing road, so that is going to be very handy. In the meantime, I would really really love to see your piecrust recipe!

[mushroom]

If you absolutely HAD to, RiceGuy (like being intolerant of legumes) what would you substitute for bean flours (of any description)??

[RiceGuy]

If you absolutely HAD to, RiceGuy (like being intolerant of legumes) what would you substitute for bean flours (of any description)??

As I stated in my previous post, buckwheat and teff are the ones I'd reach for first, if bean flours are out. Although, if the definition of "legume" doesn't include peas, then I'd use yellow pea flour, probably blended with buckwheat and/or teff.