Does Anyone Know How To Kill Or "inactivate" Gluten?

[mamaupupup]

My DH and I are debating how best to "sanitize" the kitchen of gluten. We're trying to understand the science behind what destroys gluten. Here is all I've learned/found so far: gluten is not water soluble, gliadin is alcohol-soluble and glutenin is soluble in acids/alkalis.

From wikipedia: Gluten is the composite of a gliadin and a glutelin, which is conjoined with starch in the endosperm of various grass-related grains. The prolamin and glutelin from wheat (gliadin, which is alcohol-soluble, and glutenin, which is only soluble in dilute acids or alkalis) compose about 80% of the protein contained in wheat seed. Being insoluble in water, they can be purified by washing away the associated starch.

What is the impact of this for cleaning surfaces? Ideas?

[kareng]

Before gluten-free, I used white vinegar to dissolve the flour out of the little cracks of my mixer and off the counter.

[eatmeat4good]

Lot of soap and water and rinsing and treating your counters and drawers like they have had radioactive waste in them.

Incidentally just so you know, hand sanitizers do nothing to get rid of gluten.

I made the mistake of using hand sanitizer after handing out cookies to kids at church...then ate my food.

I posted here after I was glutened and was kindly informed that the hand sanitizer does nothing to gluten except to make sure that the gluten you ingest is really clean gluten. Arrgh. The things we have to learn.

I will be watching to see if you get any good ideas on cleaning gluten out of the kitchen.

[Skylark]

From wikipedia: Gluten is the composite of a gliadin and a glutelin, which is conjoined with starch in the endosperm of various grass-related grains. The prolamin and glutelin from wheat (gliadin, which is alcohol-soluble, and glutenin, which is only soluble in dilute acids or alkalis) compose about 80% of the protein contained in wheat seed. Being insoluble in water, they can be purified by washing away the associated starch.

What is the impact of this for cleaning surfaces? Ideas?

If you want the scientific answer, use 70% rubbing alcohol. Gluten is soluble in 70-80% alcohol. I'd follow up with a standard counter spray.

[mamaupupup]

Thanks! That was what I was looking for!

[eatmeat4good]

Yay! Skylark!

[Takala]

Rubbing alcohol is terribly poisonous.... don't use this where pets could possibly ingest it, or small children.

How about potato vodka or everclear ?

[mamaupupup]

Boy are people at the store going to think I have a problem...me marching out with a case of everclear!!! I'm just going to be honest, "Just going to do some sanitizing of my kitchen, you know, kill the gluten!" They're going to think I've lost it! ...and, perhaps I have! One way or another, I'm going to rid my house of that nasty protein!

[Skylark]

Rubbing alcohol is terribly poisonous.... don't use this where pets could possibly ingest it, or small children.

How about potato vodka or everclear ?

I don't see how rubbing alcohol is any more or less dangerous than other cleaners like bleach, ammonia, or Lysol. Potato vodka does not have a high enough alcohol% to get the chemistry we're looking for. Everclear 151 would work fine but sheesh, it's expensive. You could have fun while cleaning though. A little for the counters... a little for me... A little for the counter *hic* ... a little for me...

[mamaupupup]

Just to double check from a scientific standpoint, which of these statements are correct?

- Using soap and water will wash away but not deactivate gluten

- White vinegar will kill just the glutenin

- Bleach will deactivate just the glutenin

- Everclear will deactivate both the gliadin and the glutenin

- Everclear will deactivate both the gliadin and the glutenin (and mixed with lemonade will make the cleaning process much more enjoyable)

In all seriousness, I'm trying to figure out if I can kill gluten on my wooden spoons, etc. and not have to toss them out and get new ones.

[Skylark]

NOTHING will "deactivate" gluten and I'm sorry but most of your statements are scientifically incorrect. Gliadin, like all proteins, does not break down readily. "Inactivating" or hydrolyzing gliadin takes boiling it in acid, using very specific barley enzymes which are not readily available in the US, or heat above 500F (i.e. charring it).

I think you have misunderstood the Wikipedia article. The toxic protein for celiac disease and gluten sensitivity is gliadin. The term "gluten" is a baking term, not a cereal chemistry term.

- Soap and water will wash away the wheat starch, and clean just about anything off hard, non-porous surfaces if you scrub. It is a good thing to use!

- White vinegar will help dissolve glutenin which is not a concern for celiac disease anyway.

- Bleach is a nice cleaner that may or may not do anything specific as far as wheat is concerned.

- Everclear or rubbing alcohol (70-80% alcohol) will help dissolve gliadin, the toxic part of wheat protein. It does not "deactivate" it. It only helps dissolve it so you can clean it up.

I found wooden spoons at Walgreen's on sale for 99 cents. They are so cheap it isn't really worth playing games with solvents hoping you somehow can get the gluten out of the wood. It would cost more to buy the alcohol than a couple new spoons.

[mamaupupup]

Excellent, thank you! I needed a reality check!

[Takala]

Re the rubbing alcohol - It's like antifreeze, it tastes sweet, but it's poison. The bleach and ammonia are obviously very bad smelling, and people don't spread them around because they are so caustic.

One would really not be wanting to soak a porous kitchen utensil in a poisonous substance to "sanitize" it of gluten proteins, not that it would be feasible, anyway !!! The first thing I thought of was wooden cutting boards or butcher block getting doused in rubbing alcohol, which does not seem safe at all.

I stopped soaking my earrings in rubbing alcohol to sanitize them, and went to an "edible" version when I realized my cat could jump up on the bathroom vanity sink and was doing so regularly. I figured out that the alcohol must not taste bad when the ants that kept trying to come in on the water pipes kept getting attracted to it - I could kill them with it, but didn't want to get anything else accidentally, esp. w/ a big dog that also was sneaking into the bathroom sometimes.

Mechanically removing by scrubbing with soap and water with maybe some alcohol and vinegar added, on hard non porous surfaces and rinsing well is the best. But for some of us with "unique" kitchens, we end up laying down paper towel every day on the old countertop anyway, because nothing short of sandblasting is getting that all off . Getting in clean food and stopping using a few pieces of really scummed old bakeware was more effective.

[ravenwoodglass]

When I deglutened my home all I did was vacuum up drawers for crumbs and wash everything down with soap and water. That did the trick in my house.

[Skylark]

To be honest I didn't go to extremes either. I scrubbed the kitchen, replaced a wooden cutting board that badly needed to be replaced, my wooden spoons, and an ancient toaster oven that I'd been looking for an excuse to replace. I threw out some plastic storage containers that were scratched up and also really needed to go, and replaced any condiments that could have breadcrumbs in them. I bought a rice cooker which really comes in handy.

[mamaupupup]

I really really really appreciate you all! Thank you for all your insights, sharing your stories, tolerating my questions This has to be one of the best, most helpful, kind, gentle, honest online groups I've ever encountered. The silver lining of Celiac Disease

Heartfelt gratitude! And, as I discovered in my St. Patrick's Day wanderings:

May your blessings be greater than the shamrocks that grow

And may trouble avoid you wherever you go!

Have a great day!

[Karen P]

Hi.  I totally know what you're going through.  I've been fighting gluten in my spare/sewing/computer room for 6 months now and I still have a problem despite having cleaned it 5 times.  For the floor, at first I used a steam mop then dish soap in super hot water and believe me when I say I scrubbed.  After this didn't work, I used a combination of bleach and dish soap and almost boiling hot water.  No luck.  Next came the steam mop, dish soap and a higher dose of bleach and then the steam mop again.  It still didn't work!!!  By now, I was in tears.  I was sick of getting glutened and unable to go in this room.  The cause of the issue...my extremely insensitive daughter came for a visit with her family of very young girls and her hubby and they all stayed in this one room.  Meg gave the 2 girls either multigrain bagels or mini-wheat cereal for breakfast and God forbid should they eat this breakfast at the kitchen table.  (Can you tell I'm still angry?)  The girls did what all small children do when they don't know any better and they ran around touching pretty much everything in this room.  Anyways, on the third try I used literally boiling hot water with mostly bleach and a bit of dish soap and a very hard bristle brush.  I scrubbed and bawled the entire floor and after a bit of a break, carried on washing down the furniture as well as my computer and that desk and then my sewing desk.  Believe it or not, I got glutened yet again the next time i went into this room to sew.  It took me a couple of months to try again and by now, I'm stumped.  A couple of days ago, I read an article that stated using alcohol and then vinegar as well as rinse, rinse, rinse and I have high hopes of this working.  I've also come to the conclusion I've missed areas where gluten has come in contact with my stuff but be damned if I can figure out where and/or what this could be.  If this doesn't work, I don't know what to do.  If I could hire somebody to completely de-gluten this room and I could trust it was clean, I'd go that route.  Getting glutened over and over and over this summer has really taken it's toll.  It's rare I feel well enough to do anything other than lay on the couch and watch tv.  That isn't a life!!!  If I do get this room clean, I then get to tackle my bbq which my daughter and her hubby so thoughtfully cooked (messily I might add) chicken and steaks with bbq sauce. 

 

Thank you for letting me share my frustration.  It used to be i could discuss my health issues with my mother but I've discovered she has no clue what gluten does to a Celiac.  She sincerely believes I can cheat on my gluten-free diet and I'm just being "picky" and exaggerating my symptoms.

[manasota]

Karen P, just so you know, this thread is 3 1/2 years old.  You might not get any responses/help.

Anyway, welcome to the forum!

[ravenwoodglass]

Karen, welcome to the board. With everything you have done it is highly unlikely there is gluten still in that room that is causing your issues. Please read the Newbie 101 thread at the top of the Coping page. It will help you pinpoint the cause of your continued issues. How long have you been diagnosed?  What are the symptoms you are getting? There could be something else you are reacting to or it could be you are reacting to something else that you had eaten or been in contact with before you go into the room. Gluten reactions are usually delayed by a bit which can make it hard for us to figure out what is getting us.

 

[bartfull]

You can't get glutened by merely touching gluten. The molecule is too large to pass through the skin. Think about it - if touching gluten could get us sick, we'd ALL be sick all the time simply from going to the grocery store or visiting friends.

The solution is to be diligent about washing your hands EVERY SINGLE TIME you plan on popping something into your mouth. Problem solved.

[bartfull]

Karen, you told me you get the rash when you get glutened. Has the rash been diagnosed as DH? If so, it could be that iodine is making it worse. People with DH can get flares off and on for two years or more, even if they don't get glutened, and a diet high in iodine can make it worse. Go on over to the DH section here and read as much as you can. You'll see pictures of the rash, and you'll get loads of great advice. 

If the rash is not DH, but something like psoriasis (such as I have), or eczema, it might be that you are reacting to other foods. Corn and soy are typical culprits.

[Karen P]

H'mmm....I clicked on the link you supplied and this is where it took me.  I have a feeling this isn't right.  Can you let me know please?  If it's not, I'll try out the other method you suggested.  During all of this, I've tried to create a profile and the site froze up on me.  lol  Like I said earlier, I'm not exactly computer literate. 

[bartfull]

Yep, this IS the right place.

For those who are wondering what this is all about, Karen replied to me personally on my profile page. She couldn't find this thread again, but I gave her a link so she could benefit from everyone's advice.

Her gluten response seems to be DH or something similar. I mentioned iodine and sent her to the DH section. In the meantime, everyone is invited to drop by my page and see what else Karen and I have posted to each other. She has been feeling alone and confused. Let's all give her a hand and a hug.

Thanks.

[Karen P]

Okay, here goes everyone and most especially to "Bartfull" who's been a huge shoulder for me to cry on.  The tears stem from frustration and being so isolated with whatever has been going on with me.  I was diagnosed with Celiac disease about 6 years ago.  At that time, I was down to 102 pounds when I should be at least 125 and I felt positively horrible.  After the scope, I was sent to a nutritionist who told me to avoid gluten and gave some examples of the food out there.  To say this woman wasn't much help would be an understatement.  The DH (which I think I've confirmed in the past 1/2 hour) and gastrointestinal issues have plagued me since my early 20's.  I've managed to gain most of my weight back but other than that, nothing much else has changed.  If I go a friends house, it seems I come in contact with gluten (no, it's not ingestion) and within hours, the rash comes back followed by the GI symptoms.  I've gotten to the point where I stay by myself for the most part just so I can stay somewhat healthy.  I wash my hands every time there's a chance of touching something and yet, it still happens.  I'm fairly confident my issue is related to the Celiac disease but I don't know anything more than that.  This morning I've been wondering if taking a Benadryl would allow me to at least use my sewing room which I can't seem to "de-gluten" since my daughter came for a visit way back last March!!!  This room used to be my happy room.  It's where I sew and play and listen to tunes.  Every time I go in it and despite religious hand washing, I still end up sick.  I'm angry, I'm frustrated beyond belief and I'm mad as hell at my daughter who knew better than to bring and give multigrain bagels and Miniwheat cereal to her 2 young girls and then allow them to run all over my house with it despite me telling her to leave it at home!  I have other health issues including a hip replacement that keeps breaking; however, this "gluten?" issue is the only thing totally wearing me down.  Any help or helpful hints will be greatly appreciated. 

[ravenwoodglass]

So sorry you are having such a very hard time. Have you been back to your GI for retesting to check your antibody levels and the state of your villi?  If not it would be a good idea to get that retesting done. While it is quite rare there is the possiblility of refractory celiac. Hopefully that is not the what is going on but if it is the doctor may be able to do something to help.