Articles Explaining Why Many Of Us Cross-React With Grains And Soya...thoughts?

[Hala]

Hello,

I've been gluten-free now for 11 weeks, but I've been experiencing frequent glutening-like symptoms, which I think I've tracked down to ingesting anything with corn flour/starch, maize flour/starch, soya and, to a lesser extent rice. (I am also lactose and egg intolerant - and possibly white potatoes too...?).

Anyway, I've stumbled across some articles that explain grain-intolerance in coeliacs.

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(scroll down to What Is Gluten And Where Is It Then?)

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Do these seem valid? It definitely fits in perfectly with what I've been experiencing!

I'm so sick of feeling so awful all the time! I avoid gluten and contamination like the plague but am still in pain/feeling sick and steadily losing yet more weight (and hope!).

[mushroom]

Many posters on the board find they feel better with no grains at all, while others have different (and differing) grain sensitivities. Corn is as bad as wheat for me, and I do not tolerate amaranth or millet, while buckwheat, teff and sorghum are fine. I avoid oats just because I don't think they are a good idea

[GFreeMO]

I am trying to be as grain free as possible.

Is rice a grain? I usually eat rice with fruit and brown sugar for breakfast. Does it count as a grain?

[mushroom]

Rice is a grain, but a very low protein one - only 5% on the table in the link.

[Hala]

Seems like our bodies just can't cope with anything

[cavernio]

I'm nitpicking. The first article you linked didn't say non GMO soy is bad. I have not removed soy from my diet, but I'm not 100% better and is one of the things I have been considering totally wiping out. I know that a lot of people on the forums do have issues with soy, but with my lack of reaction and that I havent found any scientific literature showing that soy causes a celiac-ish immune reaction, (and I have with corn and dairy), I've not bothered going off soy. Some people say that it's just too hard to break down and so they get stomach issues from it I think. If anyone gets their usual celiac reaction to soy or has read something saying there is an autoimmune potential with soy, I'd love to see it.

I completely disagree that the *only* reason we think of wheat gluten as being problematic is from way back when, or that that was a bad way to look at it. There's been thousands of celiac studies and what grains are safe and which ones aren't since then. That's why we don't eat rye and barley now. Oats get all sorts of contradictory data. What I do agree with in the article though, is that gluten problems are too narrowly defined when we only use intestinal damage to indicate it. I don't know about their 1 in 7 people who have issues with grain (I can totally see it, I just don't fully trust where they get their info) but I could see the list of unsafe foods for celiacs and sensitives become quite a bit larger if we actually included ALL symptoms and not just what causes villi damage.

I have a really hard time being corn free. I have a hard time not buying processed foods. I was corn free for a few weeks quite awhile ago, but when I ate corn on the cob and noticed nothing I decided it was fine. Then I learned that most corn in the states (and likely Canada too, we don't have tight regulations on labels and GMO and Monsanto, the primary company involved in creating these hybrids has been caught bribing officials in Canada to say safety studies on their products are better than they are) is GMO to explode the intestines of corn borers that eat it. Apparently it needs a bacteria in the gut of the borers to do that. So I've been mostly avoiding any sort of GMO corn and GMO soy (they make it so that they can use too many pesticides so it's not exactly a good practice even if it is safe which it might not be) while I'm at it. Keyword: mostly. Stupid sauces and Udi's buns and tofutti. I lost my willpower years ago. It's not much easier to find even when my health is at risk.

[Lady Eowyn]

Hi Hannah - and bless that guinea pig .

I have strong views about gluten (especially) and other grains.

It's my belief that humans should not eat them as we are not designed to digest them nor are other mammals. This is my own view and not intended to be scientific fact or anything! I think it is important to remove them from a diet particularly if suffering from any long term type ailment. I think celiac is just an individual manifestation of problems with gluten just as any other lifelong condition could be.

With what I know now I would not give gluten to a child of mine (too old for another now ) and keep other gluten sources to a minimum for a child that is.

I have read that as a rule of thumb food that cannot be eaten raw/poisonous raw can give problems when cooked. This covers grains, soya, pulses and potatoes which would make you very ill raw but obviously not meat which I believe, humans get most benefit (nutrient wise) when eaten raw. I would hasten to add that I don't eat raw meat or recommend doing that obviously! (with obvious exceptions).

Not sure how I do with pulses as I rarely eat them. Did get stomach ache from lentils not long ago.

Can't eat potatoes, rice, soya or general gluten free flours but have recently bought some coconut flour which I have high hopes for as I am ok with coconut.

I think I might be rambling now so I will go ........ .

[foam]

I agree with the above post 100%, my wifes pregnant with our first by the way and I will be very hesitant to allow many grains in their diet you can be sure. Coconut in all it's forms is AWESOME. Potatoes for me is something.. Because obviously they are from a dodgy botanic family, on the other hand with the restrictive diet you need to cure yourself and the digestive problems we have and the sugar we can't eat..., it's very hard to get enough calories to hold enough weight to survive it without potatoes, if someones got a lower carb non grain alternative I'd love to hear it.

My list of trouble foods can basically be made into a list from worst to best based on grain/nut/legume family and listed in order of protein content. Then you can list fruits in order of sugar content. Least protein and least sugar the better it is. All veggies are fine, coconut is awesome, all meat is fine but red meat is the best and for now the more cooked it is, the more the protein is broken down = the better. You should listen to me about meat since I didn't eat it for 20 years "!) and really didn't expect to ever eat it again, I just got stuck in a bad place and ran out of foods in the end

[mushroom]

While sweet potatoes have more carbs than white, they have a lower glycemic index. I don't know if that makes any difference for you.

[Hala]

Thanks for the advice (and don't worry, I love a good long ramble!). I just wish I could see what was going on inside me so I knew exactly what to eat/avoid!!

[dilettantesteph]

It is hard to tell if reactions are coming from gluten contamination or from a cross reaction. These other grains are botanically quite different from the grains which cause reactions. Already oats are different enough from wheat, barley and rye to only cause reactions for a small percentage of celiacs. Corn is much more different than that. The tests generally used to determine if something is gluten contaminated are of too low sensitivity to cover all celiacs/gluten intolerants. How low some might react is also not agreed on my researchers. Those two factors pretty well make it impossible to figure out the cause.

What's important to me is, if it makes me sick, don't eat it. Sometimes if I keep looking for a better source, or grow it myself, I find that i can eat it after all.

[AnnJay]

I am also in the camp of, if it makes me sick I don't eat it. Now avoiding gluten, corn, soy, dairy, tomatoes, and chocolate for the sick category. But I also avoid most grains for a vague reason of just not feeling GOOD on them. It's like my metabolism changes and I feel hungry all the time just because of a little quinoa. So, I eat potatoes, parsnips, turnips, and lots and lots of vegetables along with meat. In fact, I keep buying and cooking a greater variety of vegetables just to keep my interest. And I think my diet is very good for me right now.

Funny thing is, years ago I ate vegetarian and consumed lots of grains and dairy. That diet sure wasn't good for me!

[foam]

AnnJay, I'm sure I made myself sick by being vegetarian. Not so much being vegetarian itself but because I replaced meat with grains calorie for calorie. Also interesting is that I don't know ANY very long term vegetarian that can still eat wheat so it's a common theme.

Sounds like at the moment you are eating the same as I am and it's MUCH better for me than grains and no meat that is for sure.

I first got sick on rye actually and avoided rye bread for many years before a similar problem with wheat showed up, then I got sick on soy milk, then I got sick on corn (raw) is where I first noticed it and I used to like eating raw corn fresh off the plant in the garden but one day I just started getting sick every time I ate it, then cooked and processed came corn later. Later still I felt better without rice. I can still eat rice but I definitely feel less inflamed not eating rice. I think just going off rice for a few months should get my antibodies to rice down enough to get on rice again in limited amounts. Because it's low protein I don't think it's ever going to be a huge problem like the other grains. Milk Chocolate actually makes me sicker faster than anything else.. Bit strange but it does

[ButterflyChaser]

Hannan, I am currently in that same stage and cannot even have simple, nonGMO, organic, "naturally gluten free" grains, like rice. I must be the only person with what seems to be NCGS to react to plain rice. If it can be of any comfort, I have been grain-free and soy-free (as well as legume-free) for about 2 months now, and it gets better. I am not sure how that would work out if I were vegan, though, but if you can digest legumes and nuts alright (which I can't), then you are in a better place than I am,