Omg...i Might Be On To Something

[Guest LittleMissAllergy]

Thanks everyone for your support- you guys are really helping to pull me through this! Each one of you is so smart...gosh, this board is just full of folks that just create a wealth of knowledge!

Ugh. Last night was SO hard though. The ribcage pain was so severe...it's swollen on the left side (I supppose it's my spleen) and now I have new pain in my ribcage on the right. I have no idea what it is and I wanted to go to the ER, but then I remembered what you all said...I kept telling myself "it's a herx...it's a herx..."

Another thought.....are you taking any type of toxin binder??

When you kill bugs you are also releasing metals into your system. If you're not doing anything to keep them from circulating you can be suffering severe symptoms from the mobilization of metals.

I'm on glutathione, TMG and some B12 which is supposed to, according to my LLMD, open up my methylation pathways and let the metals out, but he thinks that I might have some sort of cell mutation that has a pathway blocked so when I see him on Wednesday we're going to address that. He's thinking though that the metals being stirred up and trapped are making this A LOT worse. So you are very right. He'll also have the results to my stool test so we'll see if I'm dumping any metals at all.

He's thinking of starting me on Questran soon...I think that's supposed to bind to toxins?

I am so sorry you are feeling so badly. I agree with drinking lots of purified water. Carla, would the lemon water help her perhaps?

Sherry

Thank you for your advice and kind words Sherry I tried some lemon water last night and I think it might have helped my stomach some.

Have you tried epsom salt baths? I found that this helped me the most when I was circulating toxins that I couldn't rid of any other way. At some point I was taking 2 per day.

That's great that you felt so good. Hope you continue to only improve from here!

Littlemiss,

Have you had your thyroid checked? arcoal for my binder.

My theory is that I stirred up metals - more than my liver, kidneys and intestines could handle.

Still dealing with the liver issues all of this caused.....but its not so bad as the other!

Thank you for all of your suggestions I DO take epsom salt and baking soda baths, and they're just about the only thing that helps these days!

I actually haven't had my thyroid checked lately but I know it's for sure bothered right now. My LLMD agreed but said that it was just the lyme bugs bothering it and he said it was probably still functioning. I don't know though, my neck is SO painful somedays...and I get so dizzy...

He has me rubbing iodine tincture on my arm once a day. Just a little dot.

One other comment, it is important to take some supplements that help protect the liver while you are on the antibiotics. Does you doctor have you on something?

Hope you feel better soon.

Sherry

Thank you

I'm on 1 capsule of Milk Thistle and I'm taking it every other day.

for me i haave reaized enemas are not the answer they leave me nauseaus too. I think my system is just too sensitive or soemthing the weird thing is i do colonics but I cannot do an enema.

Oh yay- so im NOT a complete weirdo! lol! Thanks for validating my nausea! I'm also wondering if it's what caused my horrible right and left side pain. I have terrible pain under my ribcage and I've had it for over 12 hours now. Ughhh.

And the weird thing is- I can do colonics too!! How strange are we? hehe.

Thanks again everyone.

<3 All my love.

[CarlaB]

I'm really bummed...I was getting all ready for a class at the gym tomorrow morning and got my swim suit all packed, and towel ready, clothes planned out, then I realized...It's Memorial Day...they're CLOSED!

The first time I have enough energy to go to the gym and actually work out (not just drive there and drive home as my work out ) and it's closed. Sigh. Murphy's Law!

Wow, our gym is open today ... of course, ours is open 24/7 .... except for Christmas, I think.

He's thinking of starting me on Questran soon...I think that's supposed to bind to toxins?

Questran/cholestyramine (the generic) is good. I took it for a few months. I still have some and take it if I have something with a higher mold content or if I'm feeling particularly toxic (hmmm, maybe it would help me adjust to the zith).

Well, this morning I was lying in bed and woke up to a marching band going by ... we live on the same block as main street. Small town America can be fun. I threw on some clothes and ran out there .... missed the band, of course, LOL.

[dlp252]

any thoughts on that lot LOL

I see you got another answer...good, cuz this was my one and only thought!

Tomorrow starts my second week of Doxy, and it's going very well. I didn't herx much, probably because now's the time I typically feel fantastic, and today I was able to start and finish a sewing project as well as go to church for the first time in over a month!

YAY!!!! That's great news!!!

I'm really bummed...I was getting all ready for a class at the gym tomorrow morning and got my swim suit all packed, and towel ready, clothes planned out, then I realized...It's Memorial Day...they're CLOSED!

Sorry, but that just struck me funny!

Im back to havind weird BM's again. I had almost convinced myself to start humaworm, but starting tommorow i have so much i have to do for the next 8 weeks with the kids and sports lol. Does anyones know of an parasite or even colon cleanse that is safe and only last like 3 days lol.

Sorry, don't know of any. The reason Humaworm is so long is so that all the little eggs that hatch get taken care of. I'm not sure any that lasted 3 days could do that, but if you find any, let me know, lol. I have 5 days left on my killer regimen, and I have to say that I'm not seeing as much stuff. Yay, for no stuff.

I am still working 10 to 12 hours every day and I am doing better all the time, my stamina has returned and I am feeling fine.

Wow, this is really great!!!!

I actually haven't had my thyroid checked lately but I know it's for sure bothered right now. My LLMD agreed but said that it was just the lyme bugs bothering it and he said it was probably still functioning. I don't know though, my neck is SO painful somedays...and I get so dizzy...

He has me rubbing iodine tincture on my arm once a day. Just a little dot.

This is exactly what's happening to me. My ART testing showed that the lyme was really affecting my thyroid, and in addition to that I have the heavy metals and mold issue working their magic on it too. My neck is VERY sore almost all the time.

Well, this morning I was lying in bed and woke up to a marching band going by ... we live on the same block as main street. Small town America can be fun. I threw on some clothes and ran out there .... missed the band, of course, LOL.

HOw fun though!

[dlp252]

Well, I'm back to not sleeping well. I didn't sleep well last night or the night before. I can't wait to ask Dr. S about this. I'm hoping to test this out at least once more, lol. I'm experimenting with my morning supplements but nothing I did either day seemed to make any difference. So, I'm left with the IV or the prayer, lol. I DID say a prayer last night though.

[Rachel--24]

I'm on glutathione, TMG and some B12 which is supposed to, according to my LLMD, open up my methylation pathways and let the metals out, but he thinks that I might have some sort of cell mutation that has a pathway blocked so when I see him on Wednesday we're going to address that. He's thinking though that the metals being stirred up and trapped are making this A LOT worse. So you are very right. He'll also have the results to my stool test so we'll see if I'm dumping any metals at all.

He's thinking of starting me on Questran soon...I think that's supposed to bind to toxins?

Most of us here have problems with detoxification. Otherwise we'd be healthy and out having fun....eating whatever we want. You definately need help with the toxins you're stirring up. You need a binder to absorb the toxins. If the Glutathione, TMG and B12 were enough....you would not be feeling so sick.

Some people dont herx at all....or have very minor herx reactions. It all depends on how well you can move the toxins out...and how much you do to keep them from overwhelming your system.

Questran is a pharmaceutical toxin binder. I'm not sure how well it works for heavy metals though. There are several toxin binders available...including activated charcaol, chlorella, apple pectin, etc.

You definately want to have some type of binder on board while you're killing bugs.

[AndreaB]

I am still working 10 to 12 hours every day and I am doing better all the time, my stamina has returned and I am feeling fine.

Great news!

You're menu addition sound pretty good too.

Donna,

I'll be waiting for your answer from Dr S. Sounds like the IV may have helped, but prayer never hurts either.

[Green12]

Well I'm finally back amongst the land of the living today, this was one of the worst breakouts I have had I am so glad to be through it.

I don't really know where I am going from here, I played phone tag with my Dr, hopefully I will get to speak to him sometime this week.

Hope everyone is having a good holiday weekend.

What are everyone's thoughts on eaing pork??

[CarlaB]

Most of us here have problems with detoxification. Otherwise we'd be healthy and out having fun....eating whatever we want. You definately need help with the toxins you're stirring up. You need a binder to absorb the toxins. If the Glutathione, TMG and B12 were enough....you would not be feeling so sick.

Some people dont herx at all....or have very minor herx reactions. It all depends on how well you can move the toxins out...and how much you do to keep them from overwhelming your system.

I think this is true to an extent .... but sometimes it's just aggressive treatment causing the herx in a person who can otherwise detox. There's just too much there all at once that the body needs to get rid of. So, it does depend on how fast you can move out the toxins, but it also depends on how many bugs you're killing.

You can detox during/after the herx, but the bugs might be hidden if you don't surprise them with a strong attack.

My LLMD is of the opinion that you go after the bugs while you can before they hide, herx, and you will eventually feel better. He does not try to stop or avoid the herxes, but he does give ideas on how to be more comfortable. Generally, he's very aggressive with treatment to kill the bugs before they become resistant or hide.

Zeolite is good for binding metals. My LLMD has me continuing to take it even after I'm done heavy metal detoxing.

Well I'm finally back amongst the land of the living today

Welcome back!!!

What are everyone's thoughts on eating pork??

I eat pork, but not very often.

[confusedks]

He's thinking of starting me on Questran soon...I think that's supposed to bind to toxins?

My only words of wisdom about Questran is that first of all it causes constipation. So if you have problems with constipation, you will NEED to take something. The second thing is since it is prescription strength, it's harsh. My LLMD had me stop taking it because he felt that it was too much for my body to handle.

There are other toxin binders you can take though...charcoal, modified citrus pectin, chlorella, etc. I used to take charcoal 2x/day, but my LLMD's Naturopath said I could stop and only take it when I was feeling toxic in my GI tract. I rarely take it anymore though because it's difficult to be able to take it 2 hours away from everything else.

[confused]

Has anyone done the vcs test on biotoxins. I was looking around on betterheatlhguy and found that test to check on how high you might be infected with biotoxins. So I figured for 15 bucks I will do it. I really felt that my test would not be high at all. But guess what it was:

Your overall Biotoxin Illness Risk Score is 99.99399%

Should I put any faith into this, or just go on with my life lol

paula

[miamia]

Thanks everyone for your support- you guys are really helping to pull me through this! Each one of you is so smart...gosh, this board is just full of folks that just create a wealth of knowledge!

Ugh. Last night was SO hard though. The ribcage pain was so severe...it's swollen on the left side (I supppose it's my spleen) and now I have new pain in my ribcage on the right. I have no idea what it is and I wanted to go to the ER, but then I remembered what you all said...I kept telling myself "it's a herx...it's a herx..."

I'm on glutathione, TMG and some B12 which is supposed to, according to my LLMD, open up my methylation pathways and let the metals out, but he thinks that I might have some sort of cell mutation that has a pathway blocked so when I see him on Wednesday we're going to address that. He's thinking though that the metals being stirred up and trapped are making this A LOT worse. So you are very right. He'll also have the results to my stool test so we'll see if I'm dumping any metals at all.

He's thinking of starting me on Questran soon...I think that's supposed to bind to toxins?

Thank you for your advice and kind words Sherry I tried some lemon water last night and I think it might have helped my stomach some.

Thank you for all of your suggestions I DO take epsom salt and baking soda baths, and they're just about the only thing that helps these days!

I actually haven't had my thyroid checked lately but I know it's for sure bothered right now. My LLMD agreed but said that it was just the lyme bugs bothering it and he said it was probably still functioning. I don't know though, my neck is SO painful somedays...and I get so dizzy...

He has me rubbing iodine tincture on my arm once a day. Just a little dot.

Thank you

I'm on 1 capsule of Milk Thistle and I'm taking it every other day.

Oh yay- so im NOT a complete weirdo! lol! Thanks for validating my nausea! I'm also wondering if it's what caused my horrible right and left side pain. I have terrible pain under my ribcage and I've had it for over 12 hours now. Ughhh.

And the weird thing is- I can do colonics too!! How strange are we? hehe.

Thanks again everyone.

<3 All my love.

ok we are very a like -one of my biggest complaints for four years has been the pain/ pressure on my left side right were my rib cage is. For me it is this intense pressure - thats the best wa i can describe it at times its really dibilitating.

[miamia]

Well I'm finally back amongst the land of the living today, this was one of the worst breakouts I have had I am so glad to be through it.

I don't really know where I am going from here, I played phone tag with my Dr, hopefully I will get to speak to him sometime this week.

Hope everyone is having a good holiday weekend.

What are everyone's thoughts on eaing pork??

my thoughts on eating are this- whatever your body wants and can tolerate you should eat

[Rachel--24]

Has anyone done the vcs test on biotoxins. I was looking around on betterheatlhguy and found that test to check on how high you might be infected with biotoxins. So I figured for 15 bucks I will do it. I really felt that my test would not be high at all. But guess what it was:

Your overall Biotoxin Illness Risk Score is 99.99399%

Should I put any faith into this, or just go on with my life lol

paula

Paula, I'm pretty sure Scott (betterhealthguy) is familiar with the test. I believe he wrote an article on biotoxins in a past newsletter. You might want to ask him what his thoughts are. Thats probably what I would do. You can contact him from his site. He's a great guy...and he'd probably be the best person to ask.

[Rachel--24]

What are everyone's thoughts on eaing pork??

Hi Julie. Glad you're back.

I avoid pork. I used to react to it but I'd also read that pork is best avoided during any type of detoxification. I havent had any pork in a long time now.

If I didnt have problems with it I'm sure I'd eat it...maybe not everyday...but heck...any food that doesnt cause me problems is gonna *have* to be on the menu.

and yeah...I'm sure I'd be racheling bacon if only I could tolerate it!

[miamia]

Hi Julie. Glad you're back.

I avoid pork. I used to react to it but I'd also read that pork is best avoided during any type of detoxification. I havent had any pork in a long time now.

If I didnt have problems with it I'm sure I'd eat it...maybe not everyday...but heck...any food that doesnt cause me problems is gonna *have* to be on the menu.

and yeah...I'm sure I'd be racheling bacon if only I could tolerate it!

ive been craving bacon

[AndreaB]

What are everyone's thoughts on eaing pork??

Welcome back Julie.

We've been eating pork more frequently. We mostly have Beelers from Whole Foods, sometimes Wellshire.

Just had ham at my mom's yesterday and she isn't as choosy about the more natural raised meats.

[Rachel--24]

I think this is true to an extent .... but sometimes it's just aggressive treatment causing the herx in a person who can otherwise detox.

The problem is that once a person has chronic lyme...they DO have impaired detoxification. If they didnt, they'd never be sick from the toxins produced by the bacteria.... those toxins would never accumulate. The bacteria doesnt make us sick...its the toxins that make us sick. If we had no problems detoxing we wouldnt be affected. We would never be sick from Lyme in the first place.

Impaired detoxification is a major part of the whole chronic lyme picture....thats why heavy metals and so many other things come along with it.

With treatment detoxification can improve. For a person who's just starting out....a huge release of toxins that they cant get rid of is gonna cause a whole lot of unnecessary misery. Some people might prefer to feel that way....personally, I'd rather not put my body through it.

Obviously I'm not taking antibiotics but if my chelation treatments were causing that type of stress from redistribution of metals...there is no way I'd proceed at the same intensity. My Dr. would stop treatment even if I wanted to proceed.

Since metals do get released when killing bugs...much of the herx reaction is caused by the redistribution of metals. Thats never a good thing. I think early on in treatment alot has to be taken into consideration. Killing bugs is only part of the process.

[confused]

Paula, I'm pretty sure Scott (betterhealthguy) is familiar with the test. I believe he wrote an article on biotoxins in a past newsletter. You might want to ask him what his thoughts are. Thats probably what I would do. You can contact him from his site. He's a great guy...and he'd probably be the best person to ask.

[CarlaB]

ive been craving bacon

Maybe you need salt?

The problem is that once a person has chronic lyme...they DO have impaired detoxification. If they didnt, they'd never be sick from the toxins produced by the bacteria.... those toxins would never accumulate.

Unless there were eventually just too many bugs so the body could not keep up with the toxins that they were producing.

If you compare it to alcohol .... a person can have a few drinks, and do fine (a non-Lymie of course), but if they drink too much, the body can't keep up with all the toxins produced from so much alcohol so they get sick.

So, with Lyme, if there is more bacteria, the person could still get sick even though there body does detox.

I have been dealing with Lyme for many years and didn't get sick except under times of stress (only three times in 30 years). I think what happened was that my body had other things to deal with and it overwhelmed my system. Once my system got enough rest and the stress removed, it got better.

The final time I got sick with another bacterial infection, I was under great stress, and I think I got another tick bite (I think I remember this .... seems like I had to have Adam take one off me at our old house). Prior to the time of the possible tick bite, I never had a babs symptom, so I'm thinking I didn't have babs till five years ago. I have had Lyme and bartonella symptoms since high school though.

So, all of a sudden I have more bacteria. Even though the Lyme has been there all along, I get sick from these other three factors. So, yes, it's toxins, but not because I can't detox, but because I finally had more toxins than my body could handle at one time.

In my experience, after a herx, I feel better as the bacterial load is lowered. My body catches up on the detoxing and I feel better with the lower bacterial load.

There are obviously two different ways LLMD's work on this. Some avoid herxing, others do not. It's good that there are different theories as different methods work better for some people. I won't say the way you are saying is the wrong way, I'm just saying there are other valid theories out there.

[aprilh]

Well I'm finally back amongst the land of the living today, this was one of the worst breakouts I have had I am so glad to be through it.

I don't really know where I am going from here, I played phone tag with my Dr, hopefully I will get to speak to him sometime this week.

Hope everyone is having a good holiday weekend.

What are everyone's thoughts on eaing pork??

I am glad you are pulling out of this finally. Sorry you had to go through this just when you thought some new treatments might help. Hope it does help you find some answers though.

I tend to avoid pork because I have read that Pigs are very dirty animals. They eat anything and everything. I can't say I never eat it, I just don't eat it very often. Rarely do I buy it. For bacon I might buy turkey bacon instead.

But like others said, if its one of the only things you tolerate, you have to go for it.

[Rachel--24]

So, with Lyme, if there is more bacteria, the person could still get sick even though there body does detox.

If the body is not burdened by toxins I dont think that Lyme and Co. are capable of wreaking havoc. If the immune system is not compromised by multiple factors the Lyme can be kept at bay.

The bugs are opportunistic. They dont thrive in a body which is uncompromised and free of toxicity. I'm not aware of that ever being the case with chronic Lyme.

Stress leads to increased toxicity. A person who is not already heavily burdened..and who is detoxing well...does not have difficulty coping with stress. One of the symptoms we all experience when we've reached our threshold is an inabilty to cope with stress. We feel more toxic while under stress....symptoms flare while under stress. This is because stress itself increases toxicity.

Stress throws the body's metabolism out of balance causing an overproduction of stress hormones that need to be broken down and eliminated by the body. Continual stress from physical, mental or emotional sources overburdens our excretion systems and allows for the gradual build up of toxins in our organs. The effects are cumulative on our bodies.

While we are under stress we are accumulating toxins....this gives the opportunistic bugs (such as Lyme) a chance to gain some ground.

The bugs produce their own toxins which adds to the gradual build-up of ALL toxins in the body. That build-up will inevitably impair detoxification.

I dont know of any exceptions to this rule. The environment has to be favorable for the bugs in order for them to gain the upper hand. By the time symptoms appear there is a significant build up of toxins....this has an effect on the body's ability to detoxify.

If it could happen without having an effect on the body's ability to detoxify we would see cases of chronic Lyme which are *just* about Lyme...and nothing else. I've never seen that....heavy metals, additional toxins, additional bugs, food intolerances, etc...are always a part of the picture. This is because detoxification is impaired and as these toxins accumulate all of the bugs have more opportunity to grow.

Stress is a major factor in increasing the body's total load.

[mftnchn]

Julie, glad you are feeling better and anxious to hear what the doctor says. So hoping there is a clue to this strong reaction to treatment.

I think I am having a herx...not had one for awhile but I am really hurting today! No bathtub here so I can't do a detox bath. Did ecoffee, increased my chlorella and will take charcoal mid afternoon. Guess I needed a day in bed!!

Sherry

[confusedks]

I'm into my 3rd week of Flagyl and I have been having extreme fatigue ever since I started it. I really think that because this is the first time I've ever been on a "Lyme only" med, I'm having a huge Lyme herx. In the past with Zith for example, they have all been babs herxes...not really a huge increase in my Lyme symptoms.

This really confirms I *DO* have Lyme. I know it's silly I still doubt it, but I do sometimes.

About herxing and toxins, I don't think extreme herxing is a good thing. But at the same time, I do think meds would kill bugs and that the bugs make us sick in the first place.

Otherwise...how would you explain someone who is perfectly healthy and then gets a tick bite and gets really sick right away? I don't think that they got sick by the toxins, I think it's the bugs that made them sick. I don't know if that makes any sense, lol.

[Rachel--24]

Otherwise...how would you explain someone who is perfectly healthy and then gets a tick bite and gets really sick right away? I don't think that they got sick by the toxins, I think it's the bugs that made them sick. I don't know if that makes any sense, lol.

You could be right but I believe that some people are more susceptible to Lyme toxins because of their own genetic make-up. Some people obviously get bit and dont get sick at all. Some people get stung by a bee and have severe reactions....and others do not. Its not the "bee" that the person is reacting to but the poisons from the sting. Some people are more sensitive to the poison/toxin.

That would explain why some would have more obvious symptoms appearing shortly after having been bit. A rash or other symptoms wouldnt be caused by the bug itself...it would be the body's response to the poisons.

Not all of us would experience that kind of reaction early on. For some people there is no sign of illness until many toxins have accumulated and the system becomes overwhelmed. Thtas why treating chronic Lyme is a whole different ballgame. When people are treated right away they dont have to deal with detoxification issues, heavy metals, leaky gut, food allergies, yeast, etc. etc.

If we're not quite as sensitive to the toxin and dont present with immediate symptoms by the time we DO present with symptoms there are alot of other things going on...and alot of other toxins in the body.

At that point a person's symptoms can be more strongly related to the Lyme, or to the mercury, or to fungal toxins, or to a co-infection...whatever their body is most sensitive to. Some might not feel better until they've dealt with a certain co-infection which was the primary cause of symptoms. Another person might not feel better until they've gotten rid of some metals which were the primary cause of their symptoms. For another person treating candida might make a huge difference. Everyone is different in how their body reacts to these toxins.

It really is about the toxins though.....and the toxins produced by Lyme are neurotoxins. ALL neurotoxins react synergistically in the body. That means that having Lyme increases the toxicity of mercury in the body...having Lyme and mercury and then consuming food ingredients which are neurotoxins will increase the toxicity of what is already in the body...and on and on. Everything builds up and we get sick.

[Rachel--24]

When I was on Flagyl I had extreme fatigue....it took a few days to "kick in" but then I was kind of zombie-like for the whole 2 weeks. Not sure why but I was real happy to get off of it!