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Rachel--24

Omg...i Might Be On To Something

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the problem is that the CDC places unrealistic expectations on it

Why does this not surprise me. :angry:

Another link added to my favorites. I haven't read it though. I need to create a lyme folder with all the links you guys have provided. :)

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Wow Andrea...you amaze me. :blink:

It does make it way easier to compare the results that way. :)

Rinne....I am sooo on a mission to find that link with the explanation about the western blots.....I'm gonna find it tomorrow. My eyes are too tired right now. :mellow:

It was really good....very informative. It talked alot about the IND's too.

I was just thinking...where has Mango been?? Is she camping with the wild dingos still?? :unsure:

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I was just thinking...where has Mango been?? Is she camping with the wild dingos still?? :unsure:

She hadn't been camping yet last time she posted here.

She comes home next month so hopefully she'll be a regular again.

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Rachel, I am amazed at how similar our results are. It convinces me even more that my seeming negative is a positive. The Meridian Stress Assessment and the muscle testing showed Lyme too.

Speaking of Lymetoo, :) I did email her. I think she might be on holidays, I saw a post on Lymenet Flash this morning by her and she was talking about that.

Andrea, great to have a non-Lyme brain taking on organizatonal tasks, I think we've pretty much concluded that many of us aren't that great at organizing things. LOL It seems obvious now that to have these links collected is a great idea but I know I haven't done it. :rolleyes:

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Andrea, great to have a non-Lyme brain taking on organizatonal tasks, I think we've pretty much concluded that many of us aren't that great at organizing things. LOL It seems obvious now that to have these links collected is a great idea but I know I haven't done it. :rolleyes:

I haven't organized them yet and I probably missed some in the beginning of the lyme postings :ph34r: . I love numbers and if I could balance all your guys's checkbooks I'd be in my element. I used to balance the banks bank accounts at the S&L I worked for before kids. That's almost the only thing I miss about work. That only took about 2-3 days and that was if the big account didn't balance. Typically it didn't as many people post to it. I always wanted to balance to the penny and enjoyed the challenge of finding it. Rarely did I have to write anything off. I loved it.

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Quick drive by, good morning to all :) .

Judy I looked up some info on Bioenergetics, here are a couple of links giving a description and explanation of the modality:

http://www.icnr.com/articles/stm.html

http://users.frii.com/glo/bioener.html

Sorry if it seems I dropped the "L" bomb yesterday :lol: , I just didn't know what to say.

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Sorry if it seems I dropped the "L" bomb yesterday :lol: , I just didn't know what to say.

I thought it was very queenly of you, rather, "people do not panic". :lol: And you are our queen. :)

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Both products are from NutraMedix and they are tinctures.

I am taking 15 drops a day of the Noni.

I am scaling up on the Samento, currently at 6 drops a day and every third day I increase it by 1 drop. The maximum dose will be 34 drops and I will rotate 12 1/2 days on and then 1 1/2 days off for at least three months. Apparently it is just as important not to take it as to take it because when you pause the bacteria take the spirochetal form which is easiest to kill.

Rhonda, I went to this link and couldn't find the noni, is this where you purchase it?

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I thought it was very queenly of you, rather, "people do not panic". :lol: And you are our queen. :)

:lol::lol:

Yeah Julie....it was rather queenly of you!! :lol:

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I'm glad our queenly Julie is back.

Julie, your little king turns 1 on Tuesday.....same day Rhonda talks to her doctor. I can't wait for either one of them! :D

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Ok...I didnt find the exact link that Lymetoo had sent me but I found this and I *think* it may be the same info.

Anyway, Rinne....further down it explains each band and what that particular band means.

It says that band 66 (which was positive in my report) is a heat shock protein. It says that it is the second most common borrelia antibody.This must be why Lymetoo told me that the 66 band is highly indicative of Lyme Disease.

Also my 41 band was a strong postive.

This is what it says further down about the 41 band.

41: Flagella or tail. This is how Borrelia burgdorferi moves around, by moving the flagella. Many bacteria have flagella. This is the most common borreliosis antibody.

I am now getting a better picture of what my results mean and why she was telling me that there was no doubt in her mind that I have Lyme Disease....based on these results. :o

Explaining Borreliosis (Lyme) Western Blot Tests

The Western blot is a type of test that is conducted for detection of borreliosis (Lyme), but is also used to test for infections other than borreliosis.

Borreliosis is a more accurate name than Lyme disease for this infection. Several different Borrelia may cause a similar clinical pattern in this disease.

Old Lyme is a town in Connecticut, not a disease. Borreliosis is the name that should be used.

There is no universal agreement on what defines a positive Western blot.

Good laboratories use different criteria to interpret borreliosis blots. At the 1999 international borreliosis and tick-borne infection conference, Sam Donta, M.D. lectured.

Dr. Donta is a full professor of Infectious Disease at Boston University School of Medicine. He said that if a patient has just one borreliosis-associated antibody on their Western blot, you may assume they have borreliosis. Richard Horowitz, M.D. said the same thing in his lecture, at that same conference.

Research I presented in 1998 involving over 400 borreliosis patients, showed an 87% response rate to antibiotics. This was if they had one borreliosis-associated antibody on their blot. So if there is enough suspicion that Lyme borreliosis is the cause of a patient's symptoms, so much so that a Western blot is ordered, then if only one borreliosis-associated antibody is found, it is significant!

Medical literature is replete with statements about false positive test results for Lyme borreliosis. Since 1988, I have diagnosed and treated well over 600 borreliosis patients. Only 2 of those patients with a positive borreliosis test did not respond to antibiotics. This is a 99% success rate!

So in the trenches of day-to-day medical practice, false positive borreliosis tests are not an issue. In retrospect, those 2 patients that did not respond to antibiotics may have also had babesiosis. In my practice, many borreliosis patients also have babesiosis, another tick-borne infection that causes the same symptoms as Lyme borreliosis.

Babesiosis is caused by a protozoa, which is a different germ type than a bacteria, virus, fungus or yeast. The placebo effect would not explain a 99% response rate. Those borreliosis associated antibodies should not be there, in patients with symptoms.

A placebo is like a sugar pill, that has no effect. A placebo effect occurs because patients believe in the pill they are taking, even though it is a sugar pill. The human mind causes the response. Placebo effects should more likely be about 20-30%, not a 99% response rate.

False negative test results are the real problem in diagnosing borreliosis. Research has shown that you have to do the right test (the Western blot), done at the right laboratory (one that specializes in testing borreliosis), and done the correct way (shipped express delivery early in the week). The right test to screen for borreliosis is the Western blot. Research I presented in Bologna, Italy in 1994 at the international borreliosis conference showed this.

Other screening tests, such as the IFA, EIA, ELISA, and PCR DNA probe were often negative when the Western Blot was positive! Other doctors like myself who diagnose and treat a lot of borreliosis patients, go straight to the Western blot as their screening test.

Medical articles abound stating that it is best to do a screening test, such as an ELISA, and if it is positive, then confirm it with a Western blot. But the ELISA is often negative when the Western blot is positive so, the right test is the Western blot.

It lets you see exactly which antibodies are present. The "right laboratory" means one that specializes in borreliosis testing. In the past, I have done head to head comparisons with 3 different regular labs. Western blots were drawn and sent on the same day to 2 different labs. The labs that specialize in borreliosis testing typically found borrelia-associated antibodies, that the regular laboratories missed. If these specialty labs find a borrelia antibody, I trust it to be significant, because patients respond to antibiotics.

You get what you pay for, so use a lab that specializes in borreliosis. The right way to process the Western blot specimen means for the blood to be drawn and express mailed early in the week. Research shows the borrelia antibodies have the potential to clump together, resulting in false negative test results. So far, unclumping has not been practical for laboratories to do.

The fresher the specimen, the more accurate the test results. Patients at our office are scheduled Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday if testing is to be done. This way, express shipping will assure that the specimen does not spend the weekend sitting at the post office. This is the right way to test and ship borreliosis specimens.

Western blots look for antibodies. These antibodies are made by your immune system. In this case, the antibodies are made to fight against different parts of the Lyme bacteria, which is called Borrelia burgdorferi, and other Borrelia species. In other words, your immune system does not make one big antibody against the whole bacteria. So, when you see a number on a borreliosis Western blot, it corresponds to a specific part of the bacteria.

Compare it to the old story of different blind people touching an elephant. Based on the part of the elephant each one touched, each person had their own perception. Likewise, the antibodies attach to different and specific parts of Borrelia burgdorferi.

Numbers on Western blots correspond to weights. Kilodaltons (kDa) are the units used for these microscopic weights. Think of it like pounds or ounces. An 18 kDa antibody weighs 18 kilodaltons. To do a Western blot, thin gel strips are impregnated with the various parts of Borrelia burgdorferi. Each of the numbers, 18 through 93, on the test result form, is a part of the bacteria.

Blood is made up of red blood cells and serum; Spinning blood in a centrifuge separates serum from red blood cells and other things, like white blood cells and platelets.

Serum contains antibodies made by the immune system. Electricity is used to push the serum through the thin gel strips for the Western blot. If there are any antibodies against parts of Borrelia burgdorferi present in your serum, and these parts are impregnated on the strip, the antibody will complex (bind) to that part.

When antibodies form a complex, it is called an antigen-antibody complex. Anything foreign in the body is an antigen, such as a ragweed pollen particle, germ, cancer, and even a splinter.

In the case of borreliosis, the various parts of Borrelia burgdorferi are all antigens. Though each antigen is different, they all come from the same bacteria. So all the numbers that are positive on the test report are due to antigen-antibody complexes.

If enough of the complexes are formed, eventually it may be seen with the naked eye as a dark band. - Band intensity reflects how dark or wide it is. Controversy exists about band intensity. Many would say the " +/-" equivocal bands are not significant. The problem I have with that, is that there are "-" negative bands. The lab has no trouble calling some bands negative. So they must be seeing something when they put "+/-" at some bands.

The only thing that makes sense, is that there is a little bit of that antibody present in your serum. If the "+/-" equivocal is reported on the borrelia associated bands, it is usually significant, in my clinical experience. This is a strong clue that I am on the right track.

Instead of ignoring these, they should be a red flag to keep pursuing a laboratory diagnosis. Giving patients 4 weeks of antibiotics (usually tetracycline, 500 mg, 3 times a day), will convert a negative or equivocal Western blot to positive in about 36% of cases.

As mentioned, if these positive blots are found by specialty labs, over 99% of those patients will respond to antibiotics.

Sometimes multiple antibiotics have to be tried before the patient feels better. Antibiotics may actually help with the laboratory diagnosis. But patients need to be off antibiotics about 10 to 14 days before the Western blot is repeated. This sounds like a contradiction. Antibiotics may help convert the test to positive, but patients need to be off antibiotics when the specimen is drawn.

It is well documented in medical literature that the presence of antibiotics may cause false negative borreliosis testing. Therefore, your system should be free of all antibiotics for an accurate blot result.

When the Lyme borrelia are alive, they are geniuses at avoiding the immune system. They may do things like go inside your white blood cells, and come out enclosed by the cell membrane of your own white blood cells! This may partly explain why antibodies against Borrelia burgdorferi are often not found when patients are tested.

What may happen when patients are given 4 weeks of tetracycline (or other antibiotics) is that some of the bacteria die. When Borrelia burgdorferi dies, it is less efficient at avoiding the immune system. That's when antibodies may be formed against Borrelia burgdorferi, converting the negative or equivocal Western blot to positive, in about 36% of cases.

If a borreliosis Western blot is going to be positive, it is usually the first one that is positive. The second blot is the next most likely to be positive, and so on, until the fifth blot.

After that, the curve levels off for conversion to positive. This is based on research I presented in Bologna, Italy in 1994. Some patients had borrelia-associated antibodies finally show on their tenth Western blot! Two Western blots from a reliable lab usually gives the answer.

If a third test is needed, a Lyme Urine Antigen Test (LUAT) is done instead of a third Western blot. Positive LUATs correspond very highly to patients getting better with antibiotics. False positive LUATs have not been a problem in my practice. The LUAT finds the actual antigen (Borrelia burgdorferi itself), so arguably it should be the test of choice, but the Western blot is rn6re widely accepted, even though it looks for the antibodies against Borrelia burgdorferi.

The presence of antibodies are indirect evidence of an infection, not direct evidence like shown in the LUAT. On the Western blot test result form, please note what is "considered positive" and "considered equivocal." Equivocal is another way of saying suspicious or almost positive.

Below this are the ASTPHLD/CDC recommendations. The CDC stands for the Center for Disease Control. I have been in attendance at the international borreliosis conferences when the CDC said their recommendations are for disease surveillance, not day-to-day clinical medical practice. I am not in the business of disease surveillance. My job is to try to help sick people.

The CDC recommendations do not include the 31 and 34 Kda bands of the blot test. These two bands correspond to outer surface proteins A and B respectively (ospA and ospB). In the world of borreliosis, these are two of the classic hallmark Lyme antibodies. But the CDC does not even have them in their recommendations.

You may see why I and other borreliosis clinicians do not agree with using the CDC criteria in everyday medical practice. Other bacteria besides Borrelia burgdorferi may produce the 45, 58, 66, and 73 kDa bands. These bands may be produced by Borrelia burgdorferi, but are not nearly as specifically associated with Lyme borreliosis as the starred bands. These starred bands are classic hallmark borrelia-associated antigen-antibody complexes.

An example of the CDC's criteria of a blot test, is if a patient has the band pattern of 41, 45, 58, 66, and 93, the CDC would call it positive. But if a patient has a 23-25, 31, 34, and 39 band pattern, they would call it negative. This is despite the fact that this second pattern of antigen-antibody complex bands is much more specifically associated with Borrelia burgdorferi than the first pattern.

As you can see, borreliosis is very controversial. It would be alarming if I was the only clinician who thought that the CDC recommendations should not be used for day-to day medical practice. Many borrelia clinicians do not use the CDC criteria. This is obvious by the fact that the IgX laboratory uses different criteria for positive. Again, in my opinion and others', even one borrelia-associated antibody is significant, if symptoms exist. The classic triad of symptoms for borreliosis is fatigue (tiredness, exhaustion), musculoskeletal pain (joints, muscles, back, neck, headache), and cognitive problems (memory loss, trouble concentrating, difficulty remembering what you read, depression, disorientation, getting lost).

But there are about 100 symptoms on the borreliosis questionnaire I use. Borreliosis may mimic or imitate virtually any disease. Patients often tell me that other physicians they have seen use the CDC recommendations. This is unfortunate, in my opinion, since these physicians are not in the business of disease surveillance, like the CDC is.

But I am biased. After seeing patients with borreliosis since 1988, attending many conferences, talking with experts, and doing research on borreliosis testing, there is absolutely no question in my mind that physicians need to not blindly accept any recommendations.

One of my hopes is that doctors will someday realize that this controversy is a signal for them to search for the truth. Why is there such conflict in this very "political" disease if there is not substance for disagreement? Both IgG and IgM Western blots should be done for borreliosis.

With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years. Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.

But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies. Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.

Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.

Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it. But anyway, from my clinical experience, these borrelia associated bands usually predict a clinical change in symptoms with antibiotics, regardless of whether they are IgG or IgM. In regard to the outer surface proteins, think of it like the skin of a human.

On the outer surface of the Lyme bacteria are various proteins. As they have been discovered, they have been assigned letters, such as outer surface proteins A, B, and C. The following is a brief explanation of the test results. Again, each band is an antigen complexed (bound together) with an antibody made by the immune system, specifically for that antigen (part) of Borrelia burgdorferi.

18: An outer surface protein.

22: Possibly a variant of outer surface protein C.

23-25: Outer surface protein C (osp C).

28: An outer surface protein.

30: Possibly a variant of outer surface protein A.

31: Outer surface protein A (osp A). 34: Outer surface protein B (osp B).

37: Unknown, but it is in the medical literature that it is a borrelia-associated antibody. Other labs consider it significant.

39: Unknown what this antigen is, but based on research at the National Institute of Health (NIH), other Borrelia (such as Borrelia recurrentis that causes relapsing fever), do not even have the genetics to code for the 39 kDa antigen, much less produce it. It is the most specific antibody for borreliosis of all.

41: Flagella or tail. This is how Borrelia burgdorferi moves around, by moving the flagella. Many bacteria have flagella. This is the most common borreliosis antibody.

45: Heat shock protein. This helps the bacteria survive fever. The only bacteria in the world that does not have heat shock proteins is Treponema pallidum, the cause of syphilis.

58: Heat shock protein.

66: Heat shock protein. This is the second most common borrelia antibody.

73: Heat shock protein.

83: This is the DNA or genetic material of Borrelia burgdorferi. It is the same thing as the 93, based upon the medical literature. But laboratories vary in assigning significance to the 83 versus the 93.

93: The DNA or genetic material of Borrelia burgdorferi. In my clinical experience, if a patient has symptoms suspicious for borreliosis, and has one or more of the following bands, there is a very high probability the patient has borreliosis.

These bands are 18, 22, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 37, 39, 41, 83, and 93. This is true regardless of whether it is IgG or IgM.. But again, there is no universal agreement on the significance of these bands. Betina Wilska, M.D. from Germany is one of the world's experts on outer surface protein A (31 kDa).

At the international borreliosis conference in Vancouver, British Columbia, I asked her personally about the 30 kDa band. She told me it was the same as the 31 kDa band (osp A). When you have the opportunity to talk to borreliosis experts, this helps in assigning significance to findings, on an imperfect test. As a medical doctor, I am stating all of this with no axe to grind, no professorship to protect, and no preset opinions. Patients, personal research, and conferences have helped me interpret the borreliosis medical literature in regard to testing. Nobody would like to have available a bullet-proof, 100% reliable Lyme borreliosis test more than I would. But we must use what is currently available. I always welcome second opinions.

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Carla, try this link:

Noni

Dr. Hoffman's clinic had both of these products and he sent me home with them.

Thank you.

Andrea, math is my thing, too. I am perfectly capable of balancing my checkbook, but lack the necessary motivation to do it!! I have three months piled up. I always balance to the penny, too, which is a lot easier now that I have it on my computer.

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Soooo...now that I'm re-reading this....it *is* the exact article that Lymetoo had sent me and it really makes everything more clear to me. Based on everything written....it looks like there is no doubt that I have Lyme Disease. :o

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And you and Rhonda are positive on the 41 band.

Yup...and this is what that Dr. is saying about the IND's.....based on his experience...

If enough of the complexes are formed, eventually it may be seen with the naked eye as a dark band. - Band intensity reflects how dark or wide it is. Controversy exists about band intensity. Many would say the " +/-" equivocal bands are not significant. The problem I have with that, is that there are "-" negative bands. The lab has no trouble calling some bands negative. So they must be seeing something when they put "+/-" at some bands.

The only thing that makes sense, is that there is a little bit of that antibody present in your serum. If the "+/-" equivocal is reported on the borrelia associated bands, it is usually significant, in my clinical experience. This is a strong clue that I am on the right track.

Also my IFA test was positive....that was the one that came back with the antibody titers 1:160

This is what he says about that test

Other screening tests, such as the IFA, EIA, ELISA, and PCR DNA probe were often negative when the Western Blot was positive! Other doctors like myself who diagnose and treat a lot of borreliosis patients, go straight to the Western blot as their screening test.

So normally the IFA can give false negatives and Dr.'s prefer the Western Blots. My IFA was positive....put that together with the Western Blot results and I'm thinking it looks pretty certain that I got freakin infected by a tick and now I have Lyme Disease....which made me allergic to the world. :blink:

I think I still need to ask Igenix about the 1:160 though....just to make sure.

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Also my IFA test was positive....that was the one that came back with the antibody titers 1:160

This is what he says about that test

So normally the IFA can give false negatives and Dr.'s prefer the Western Blots. My IFA was positive....put that together with the Western Blot results and I'm thinking it looks pretty certain that I got freakin infected by a tick and now I have Lyme Disease....which made me allergic to the world. :blink:

I think I still need to ask Igenix about the 1:160 though....just to make sure.

Seems pretty certain to me.

I'd be curious as to what Igenix said.

Carla,

I'll be metaphorically chewing my fingernails waiting for your results.

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Carla,

I'll be metaphorically chewing my fingernails waiting for your results.

Yeah, I'm wondering myself. Right now, I'm almost certain I have it, or I wouldn't be trying to get in with an LLMD in NY! It just fits ... and nothing else could explain so many of my symptoms -- heart palpitations, skipping beats, low blood pressure (89/55), low body temp., hyperventilate, complete disorientation (different than brain fog), rashes, GI symptoms, joint pain (knee, neck, jaw), lack of appetite, sensitivity to heat/cold, dizziness, blacking out when standing up from a sitting position, etc. Gluten-free has helped some, especially with the joint pain and GI symptoms, but I still have all the others at one time or another, they come and go.

Rachel, I LOVE the smell of coffee, too. One thing about having a great sense of smell is that I am often pretty satisfied just smelling food I can't have. I don't even need to eat it.

Patti, I hate the laundry aisle, too. It took me forever to find a brand of detergent that no one in the house reacted to! (Era in case you're curious).

Is the Ohio State/Michigan game all the talk where all of you are? Of course, it's HUGE here! Morgan's in Lafayette for the Indiana/Purdue game -- they're also rivals.

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Andrea said " metaphorically" :P

Yes, Rachel, everything I've seen and understood :blink: points to a positive. I agree with still checking with Igenix, just to be clear.

Carla, coffee is one of those things that I wish I could drink. I absolutely love the smell--the coffee aisle in the grocery store (with the grinder) is the one aisle I love to go down :D Also Starbucks. I always get tea there, though :unsure:

I use either Purex or All-- the Free and Clear versions of both. Wisk (the hypoallergenic one) was on sale a couple weeks ago, and that one was ok, too. I can't stand the least bit of a smell on my clothes.

Also Carla, please don't make me go back--when are your results due?

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Rachel, I LOVE the smell of coffee, too. One thing about having a great sense of smell is that I am often pretty satisfied just smelling food I can't have. I don't even need to eat it.

Patti, I hate the laundry aisle, too. It took me forever to find a brand of detergent that no one in the house reacted to! (Era in case you're curious).

The 2 aisles I hate to go down at work are the cosmetic/shampoo/soaps aisle and the laundry/household cleaner aisle. If I go down one of them I hold my breathe the whole way!

Lucky for me the coffee grinder is right next to my section. :D

I'm satisfied just smelling the foods too. I dont need to eat them. I always smell peoples food and they end up feeling bad because they're eating something in front of me but I actually LOVE it.

I LOVE to smell these foods....plus its nice to smell things that dont make me sick. :)

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Carla, coffee is one of those things that I wish I could drink. I absolutely love the smell--the coffee aisle in the grocery store (with the grinder) is the one aisle I love to go down :D Also Starbucks. I always get tea there, though :unsure:

Rachel, I agree, positive .... you just need to get through this period of denial. :) I remember when I was in denial about my gluten intolerance. Morgan's eyes just about popped out of her head and she said, "Do you not remember how you felt during your gluten challenge?" She couldn't believe I doubted it .... I was very ill during my gluten challenge and didn't even feel safe driving because of the dizziness ... I fell twice (but caught myself, once knocking over a whole bunch of videos in a store, then I stood there and tried to act like nothing was wrong so Adam wouldn't worry).

Patti, I can only drink a couple sips of decaf ... this morning I made some, drank about a quarter of the cup then gave it to Adam. I like the soy chai at Starbucks, but it has sugar ... I still splurge once in a while.

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Carla, I always ordered a skim Tazo Chi at Starbucks. I loved those. Now, there is no "milk" there I can drink, so I just get a cup of tea and either have it black, or bring my Vance's with me. (I really need to carry some Vance's with me at all times :P ) This new grocery store that opened up here--Wegman's--has a coffee bar, and Mark and I have been getting something to drink while shopping. Every time, I say I need to start bringing my Vance's. They should come out with single-serving packets of the stuff :D

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Andrea....I thought of something. Now that I'm all messed up I'm highly reactive to mold. I got really sick when I went to that moldy house in San Francisco and I knew it was because of the mold.

In the 2 years between getting bit and getting sick all I can say that I noticed different was that I was tired alot. I figured it was because of my commute though....because my days were really long and I'd get only about 4 or 5 hours sleep. As time went on I just felt more and more tired.

The *only* smell that I can remember having any effect on me was in Becky's car. I complained every time that her car made me *sick*....that there was a funny smell. :huh:

She had said that one time a peach had rolled out of her grocery bag and went under the seat. She didnt know it was there and eventually it got moldy and rotten and she found it cuz of the smell. I always said that even though the moldy peach wasnt there anymore it was making me sick. :blink:

I dont think she believed me really...just thought I was being melodramatic or something....but seriously the smell made me nauseus and brain-foggy. :unsure:

Now I'm thinking probably the Lyme was already having an affect on me in subtle ways....I think I was reacting to traces of mold probably still under the car seat. <_<

I prefered to always drive my own car cuz it bothered me that much.

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