How Does This Make Sense....

[Moongirl]

People like this dont have any clue....

This is a line from World Harbor...they make products like marinades and mixers..

ON their website it says......

Are World Harbors sauces gluten free?

All of our World Harbors marinades have been tested to be gluten free. The Crock & Cook sauces and Angostura sauces have not been tested at this time.

BUTTTTTTT.....

when you look at the ingredients here is what is states.

Allergens: Soy, Wheat, Soybeans/soy protein

OR

Allergens: Soybeans/soy protein

Now i saw the actual bottle and the soy cleary states (wheat)

SO here is their response to my angry answer to explain this!!

Thank you for your interest in World Harbors brand products. Our products have been lab tested to be gluten free - which means they fall below the parts per million guideline for gluten content. We do not use wheat or a wheat based starch in any of our products. Wheat is a naturally occurring product of soy sauce, and is listed in parentheses as the products contained in the soy sauce.

Because the products test as gluten free - the actual amount of soy used has to be small enough that our products still test as gluten free.

We recommend to people that are especially sensitive to soy, to not consume our flavors that contain soy sauce.

Garth

Open Original Shared Link

[jennyj]

HUH???? And these are the same people we trust to help us?

[VegasCeliacBuckeye]

That is an interesting response if it is an American company.

The US does not have a standard for what gluten free is. They must be using the European Codex standard, which is inapplicable (legally) here...

[jerseyangel]

Someone posted a similar response recently from Pacific (I think) foods regarding a soup. I personally would not eat anything with this on the label.

[Moongirl]

They made me so angry when i spoke to them on the phone and i tried to tell them that any form of wheat would make someone with celiac disease very ill...shes kept on giving me the "well wheat occurs naturally in soy, we dont add wheat as an ingredient"

HELLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo its still in there... I think they think b/c they dont add a wheat product directly its ok! I was so frustrated I just told her that I wouldnt be buying this to poison myself..and hung UP!!!

[penguin]

They made me so angry when i spoke to them on the phone and i tried to tell them that any form of wheat would make someone with celiac disease very ill...shes kept on giving me the "well wheat occurs naturally in soy, we dont add wheat as an ingredient"

HELLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo its still in there... I think they think b/c they dont add a wheat product directly its ok! I was so frustrated I just told her that I wouldnt be buying this to poison myself..and hung UP!!!

Hmm, interesting how wheat, a grain, occurs naturally in soy, a legume. Somebody needs a botany class at that company

[jerseyangel]

That's what I was thinking--wheat does not occur in soy--sounds like a lot of double talk to me!

[queenofhearts]

This brings up something I've wondered about... what constitutes 'gluten-free" in legal terms? Is there any actual amount that is considered "inconsequential", according to labeling laws? (Heaven knows there are products that declare themselves fat-free, but list oils as an ingredient... there is some percentage threshold that allows this, as I understand.) This whole labeling business is so confusing & very often infuriating!

Does anyone know the rules?

Leah

[penguin]

This brings up something I've wondered about... what constitutes 'gluten-free" in legal terms? Is there any actual amount that is considered "inconsequential", according to labeling laws? (Heaven knows there are products that declare themselves fat-free, but list oils as an ingredient... there is some percentage threshold that allows this, as I understand.) This whole labeling business is so confusing & very often infuriating!

Does anyone know the rules?

Leah

Yeah, there are no rules! The FDA does not have guidelines in place for gluten-free foods. Most companies that do test for gluten use the codex standard that is used in Europe which is <20 parts per million. American (and Canadian) companies are required to declare wheat *in* foods since wheat is in the top 8 allergens and all 8 must be declared when used. I'm not sure the facility statement is required for wheat, though. Technically, someone could slap a gluten-free label on a loaf of wonder bread and it would just be a pretty label (well, other than the false advertising thing). There is no standard in the US for gluten.

Very infuriating, which is why so many of us have been glutened by "gluten-free" products

[queenofhearts]

Yeah, there are no rules! The FDA does not have guidelines in place for gluten-free foods. Most companies that do test for gluten use the codex standard that is used in Europe which is <20 parts per million. American (and Canadian) companies are required to declare wheat *in* foods since wheat is in the top 8 allergens and all 8 must be declared when used. I'm not sure the facility statement is required for wheat, though. Technically, someone could slap a gluten-free label on a loaf of wonder bread and it would just be a pretty label (well, other than the false advertising thing). There is no standard in the US for gluten.

Very infuriating, which is why so many of us have been glutened by "gluten-free" products

Yikes... that is not very comforting! I can't say I'm surprised, though, having long thought the nutrition labeling was deliberately misleading... the way the fat content is presented for instance. It's good that wheat must be declared at least, but we're on our own for oats, rye & barley-- is that because Celiac isn't an anaphylactic-shock-type allergy? Or just because it's less common? (Supposedly!) Or am I being naive to even expect reason to exist in the FDA?

I can definitely see why lots of folks go for the caveman diet concept... nothing created by the hand of man or woman... but I don't think I'm ready for that yet. I'm glad at least I really like to cook, so I can control things to some extent, but I still worry about ingredients, cross-contamination of flours, &c. It's all pretty intimidating, especially when everyone I talk to about it looks at me like I've finally gone over the edge. (When, strangely enough, I'm finally convinced that I'm sane after all!)

Boy have I gotten an education in the past 3 weeks!

Leah

[Rachel--24]

I'm still stuck on the "wheat occurring naturally in soy" statement.

I'm really lost on that. This is the second time today something has totally baffled me.

[eKatherine]

I'm still stuck on the "wheat occurring naturally in soy" statement.

I'm really lost on that. This is the second time today something has totally baffled me.

You see, soy sauce just "happens".

[queenofhearts]

Maybe we should all take up zen & then perhaps we could make sense of this paradox.

[Lister]

labels piss me off lol

[gfp]

That is an interesting response if it is an American company.

The US does not have a standard for what gluten free is. They must be using the European Codex standard, which is inapplicable (legally) here...

The Codex is NOT European? Why do people keep referring to it as European ?

Both America and Canada are chairpersons for the codex comittee.

Open Original Shared Link

However the commitees are dominated by the food industry and the food industry also dominates the FDA.

Just one example for GM products.

" * Josh King, former director of production for White house events, is now the director of global communication in Monsanto's Washington, D.C. Office.

* Clayton K. Yeutter, former Secretary of the USDA, former U.S. Trade representative who led U.S. negotiations in the U.S.-Canada Free Trade Agreement and helped launch the Uruguay round of the GATT negotiations, is now a member of the board of directors of Mycogen, whose majority owner is Dow. (Mycogen is also the corporation that holds the patent on a technology to genetically alter plants to produce and deliver "edible vaccines.")

* Terry Medley, former admisistrator of the USDA Animal and Plant Health Inspection Serve, former chair and vice-chair of the USDA Biotechnology Council, and former member of the FDA Food Advisory Committee, is now presiding as the director of regulatory and external affairs of Dupont's agriculture enterprise.

* Micky Kantor, former Secretary of the US Dept. of Commerce and former US Trade Representative, is now a member of the board of directors of Monsanto.

* Linda J. Fisher, a former Assiatnat Administrator of the EPA is now Vice-President of Public Affairs for Monsanto.

* William D. Ruckelshaus, the former chief administrator of the US EPA is now (and for the past 12 years) a member of the board of directors of Monsanto.

* Lidia Watrud, a former microbial biotechnology researcher at Monsanto, is now with the US EPA.

* Margaret Miller, a former laboratory supervisor for Monsanto, is now Deputy Director of Human Food Safety and Consultative Services in the US FDA. "

So just who are the "food industry" ...? well according to themselves.... Open Original Shared Link

Now the question to ask is are Monsanto, Kraft and Tyson richer than a guatamalan farmer and are they lobbying the FDA and representatives on the codex comitee?

[queenofhearts]

So just who are the "food industry" ...? well according to themselves.... Open Original Shared Link

Now the question to ask is are Monsanto, Kraft and Tyson richer than a guatamalan farmer and are they lobbying the FDA and representatives on the codex comitee?

[gfp]

So it is to their advantage to make us think we are getting healthier foods, but they don't want to be forced to actually make them healthier!!!

Sigh. What can we do? Is there any organized opposition to this cartel?

Leah

Good question.

... and i beleive one with several answers.

I think the problem is any organized opposition that isn't sen as a fringe organisation or as bad as the cartels themselves.

The obvious people are organisations like Greenpeace however they are just as dishonest and crooked as the cartels they resist. The arguament seems to be the same old "Michael Moore" arguament. is it OK to mislead the audience/reader to make them see the point?

If you read the McDonalds fries thread I posted a link to several out and out lies Mcdonalds has made in the past and as a corallory the Ford Pinto and Explorer fiasco's. However people still think McDonalds is a company they can beleive, even when they bring in the "healthy options" salads with more calories than a big-mac.

Unfortunately people like to beleive in things like this until its inconvenient. McDonalds have been in court on many occaisions and the decisions a matter of court record but people choose not to see them or ignore them. My opinion is why trust a company that has lied in the past ... other people seem to want to beleive the "statements".

Most people simply enjoy the safe feeling of "free choice" too much; until it is used against them.

At the other end are the people who are simply against everything.

While the majority of people sit in the middle its not hard to see you are better off financially or employment wise to be part of the mainstream and not be seen to be supporting minority groups. There are rather few Greenpeace activists pulling down over 100k a year ... its not the sort of thing someone would put on a CV.

So what are we left with .... ?

I dunno, a majority who don't care much about anything unless it seems to threaten them personally?

The bottom line is how many people would vote for someone who was going to reform the food industry? (or any other corruption) This has to be so bad and affect so many people before anyone even stands a chance at an elected position and even then the problem is often just passed on ... take the voting in of Giuliani, sure he lceaned up NY but NJ is paying the cost and the situation had to become very bad and affect a large percentage of NY before this became an election issue and at the end of the day if he had his health I'm sure he would jump at a high paid position in NJ shipping hobo's back across the bridge.

So when I read the text you quoted I see "identified as" regardless of you highlighting it but 90% of people out in the real world will proibably just say "hey great healthier food".

[jerseyangel]

Unfortunately people like to beleive in things like this until its inconvenient.

And, unfortunately, you are right.

[Guest Robbin]

I dunno, a majority who don't care much about anything unless it seems to threaten them personally?

Isn't this the way it has always been? About the only thing that wakes people up is to get into their comfort zone and make it not so comfy. Speaking for myself, I would not have been so aware of the struggles chronically ill people have in this country, if my family and myself would have been healthy and only needed a dr. for a minor illness or injury. If an unhealthy product , food or medicine affects not only the middle and lower income people, but the wealthy, then the "panic" sets in and things get changed for the better. That's the American way

[eKatherine]

Unfortunately it's been so long since the abuses that caused food regulation to be instituted in the first place that people don't remember how bad it was, and think that regulations are inhibiting improvements in safety and labeling. The opposite is true.

[tiffjake]

Hmm, interesting how wheat, a grain, occurs naturally in soy, a legume. Somebody needs a botany class at that company

HAHAHA!!!!! Lets all go to their office with biology books and throw them at them when they leave for lunch, (ok, just kidding for those of you on here who take stuff like that seriously!)

[Fiddle-Faddle]

After reading your post, I emailed World Harbor yesterday to ask tham about it. I have not received a reply...

A-HA--they must be catching on. I tried to find the "gluten-free" mention on their website, and I can't find it any more....

[jerseyangel]

Maybe someone from their company reads our board