Local Celiac Support Group's Leader Makes Me Nervous!

[Electra]

I wasn't sure which thread to put it in, but I guess I should have just put it in my original post. I wasn't thinking with all the confusion lol!!

It's all working out for the best though FHEW!! My hubby is getting out of work in time to get home and believe it or not they happen to have our bed frame piece in the warehouse that is right next door to my husbands work, so he's going there in a couple of minutes to get it lol!! No driving YAY, and I will have time after the meeting to run to J.C. Penney and pick up some sheets so I should be able to sleep on my new (highly expensive ;-)) bed tonight hehe!! Then off to pick up my son and his friend from ice-hockey and then home to crash for the night LOL!!

[happygirl]

No problem. As this board is so big, its just easier for everyone to keep it in the same, original post, rather than starting a whole new thread.

[jerseyangel]

In a situation like this, it's probably best to just merge the two threads--which I did

Electra, I'm so glad that everything is working out. Don't ya just love when that happens!

[Rusla]

I'm curious if Black Diamond said their cheese does have gluten, or was it just the CYA, "we won't guarantee." I ask because I just looked at their web site and didn't find a cheese with gluten in the ingredients. And the shredded cheeses use cellulose for anti-caking.

richard

No, Black Diamond said their cheeses contain gluten. If they would have said they would not guarantee that they contained no gluten, I would have said that instead.

[Electra]

Well the stress was all for nothing LOL!! No DRAMA to report. Actually she was quite the opposite of what I had expected (which is what I was hoping for YAY)!! She must have said those things in the hopes that I would wait until I got more information and was making a formative decision before I ate anything that didn't say gluten free on it. She actually had an entire book of things that people were allowed to eat, and because you ladies are so smart and taught me so well ;-), I was rattling off quite a few and the group would say "NO WAY I CAN HAVE THAT" and she would look it up in her "handy dandy Celiac book" and say "Wow I didn't even know I could have that" HE HE!! I felt like I was sooooooooooo darn knowledgeable LOL!! The ladies were very nice there was this nice lady that reminded me of my Grandma that offered to bake me some of her breads and bring them over for us to try LOL, and they were trying very hard to get me to eat their gluten free soup and banana bread, but I don't know these people yet, so I just said "I don't usually eat in public, but once I get used to coming I may open up a bit" :-)!!

All in all it was a great experience and I hope to go back soon. I also realized that the store has gluten free waffles and all kinds of other things I wasn't even aware of hehe!!

I'm on cloud 9 (well until tomorrow starts lol)!!

Thank you so much for all the support ladies. I'm glad I gave it a try and didn't "assume" the worst because the leader and I obviously got our signals crossed but it's all good now!! Thanks again!! You guys are AWESOME!!

[tarnalberry]

I'm glad it went well.

I only made the statement on your 'gronola' comment because, being someone who can be labeled that, I get a bit annoyed when people come to unconnected conclusions about closed mindedness and then use that label to specify it when the cause for the conclusion was un-related - it ends up spreading a negative message on the whole. I know you didn't intend it that way, of course, but those unintended effects add up over time. (You'd think I'd have gotten used to it, having lived in California most of my life, eh? )

[Rusla]

I went to the store and forgot my potatoes, of course there was nothing saying they were gluten-free on the bag...whatever will I do.

[Viola 1]

Angie, I'm so glad it turned out so well for you ... way to go! Now you will have someplace to check in on and who knows, find a friend to go out with now and then.

[lovegrov]

No, Black Diamond said their cheeses contain gluten. If they would have said they would not guarantee that they contained no gluten, I would have said that instead.

So gluten doesn't have to be listed in Canada?

I asked abou the CYA because another poster said that's what she got from the company.

richard

[lovegrov]

But wheat straw might be the source for the cellulose. Google "cellulose from wheat" and dozens of links pop up. Here is just one: Open Original Shared Link

Please research for evidence that wheat is actually used to make cellulose for food before you post something like this that needlessly makes people doubt a harmless ingredient. While dozens of articles do pop up, the VAST majority are simply articles where the words "wheat" and "cellulose" appear together or where somebody is talking about cellulose in wheat flour. The one example you cite above appears to be nearly the only one talking about cellulose made from wheat straw.

Every single ingredient list I've ever seen, including the one here at celiac.com, lists cellulose as safe. In fact, here's what Scott's list says:

"1) Cellulose is a carbohydrate polymer of D-glucose. It is the structural material of plants, such as wood in trees. It contains no gluten protein."

Even if somebody were using cellulose made from wheat, because of the nature of cellulose, it would not contain gluten.

In more than five years of being gluten-free, I've NEVER seen a website, group or list that warns us cellulose is a suspect ingredient or that it needs to be checked. Have you?

And if it were made from wheat, in the U.S. the wheat would now have to be listed, even if it's just being used as an excipient in food or for anti-clumping. I've never seen it listed in cellulose, which, by the way, is used in many, many foods and medications for flavor, preservation, thickening, binding, and other things. Yet we are never, never warned to check foods with cellulose.

Cellulose in food is gluten-free.

richard

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Please research for evidence that wheat is actually used to make cellulose for food before you post something like this that needlessly makes people doubt a harmless ingredient.

richard

Can you prove that wheat is NOT a source for the cellulose used in foods?

You know, Richard, I have the right to post anything I have a question about, regardless of your superior attitude. Yes, maybe my questions might cause someone to doubt a harmless ingredient. But I still have the right to raise the question.

I would really appreciate it you would stop being so nasty. If you believe that wheat is never used to make food-grade cellulose, you are welcome to post that, especially if you have evidence. You are not welcome to be so condescending. We get more than enough of that from doctors.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Even if somebody were using cellulose made from wheat, because of the nature of cellulose it would not contain gluten.

richard

By that logic, wheat starch would be safe for celiacs.

[lovegrov]

Well the stress was all for nothing LOL!! No DRAMA to report.

Glad to hear this.

richard

[tarnalberry]

By that logic, wheat starch would be safe for celiacs.

Pure wheat starch *would* be safe for celiacs, but there's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to be confident of purity. Pure wheat starch would contain *ZERO* protein.

Actually, though, this 'cellulose debate' is much more akin to the distillation issue - one that is, for the most part, put to rest.

From the National Organic Standards Board Technical Advisory Panel Review, Compiled by Organic Materials Review Institute for the USDA National Organic ProgramNa on how it's made

Cellulose is the main component of higher plant cell walls and one of the most abundant organic compounds on earth. It

is also formed by some algae, fungi, bacteria, and marine animals (Whistler, 1997; Kirk-Othmer, 1993). It is a linear,

insoluble polymer of D-glucose unit joined by glycosidic linkages, and considered a polysaccharide. Cellulose molecules

form long chains in polycrystalline fibrous bundles that contain crystalline as well as amorphous regions.

Commercial sources of cellulose include wood pulp or cotton linters; the short fibers remaining on cottonseeds after the

long fibers are removed. Cotton fibers are about 98% cellulose, while wood is 40-50% cellulose (Whistler, 1997;

Ockerman, 1991). Cellulose can also be produced from various other plant fibers, such as corn cobs or stalks, soybean

hulls, bagasse (sugar cane stalks), oat hulls, rice hulls, wheat straw, sugar beet pulp, bamboo, and fibers such as jute, flax,

and ramie among others (Hanna, 2001; Ang, 2001; Franz, 1990).

NOSB TAP Review Compiled by OMRI Cellulose Processing

Different sources of cellulose are used for different purposes, for economic reasons. Pulp and paper are usually produced

from wood, while textile fibers are generally not isolated from woody fibers. Cotton fibers are a biological source of

almost pure cellulose, but this is not usually used in food grade cellulose and are used instead for various cellulose

derivatives, pharmaceutical, or chemical engineering uses, such as chromatography, paints, and explosives (Franz, 1990;

Mallinckrodt-Baker, 2001). Bacterial sources of cellulose have also been developed using Acetobacter xylinum that ferment

substrates of glucose from corn syrup (Son, 2001; Kirk-Othmer, 1993; Okiyami, 1993). These produce cellulose of small

particle diameter with more surface area than powdered cellulose derived from wood pulp. They have high tensile strength

and water holding capacity and currently are used as a high-value specialty chemical with applications ranging from

acoustical speakers, high quality paper, diet foods, and artificial skin (Son, 2001; Okiyami, 1993).

Most commercial sources of cellulose are from cotton linters and wood. Cellulose obtained from cotton linters needs only

a treatment with a hot sodium hydroxide solution that removes the protein, pectic substances, and wax to produce high

quality cellulose (Whistler, 1997). Wood requires more extensive processing to solubilize the hemicelluloses and lignins

(delignification). In addition, there are relatively small quantities of bacterial-derived cellulose commercially available, but

reportedly have not been used for food applications. (Clark, 2001)

And on how it's pulped:

Wood contains approximately 50% cellulose, 30% hemicellulose, and 20% lignin. The pulping process separates the

cellulose from the lignin and hemicellulose (structurally unrelated polysaccharides), leaving it in a fibrous form that is

purified, dried, and shipped in large rolls.

In the wood pulp processing, timber is debarked and cut into chips. These are mechanically ground and then digested

(cooked) chemically using either a sulfite or alkali process at elevated temperatures in pressure vessels or digesters

(Johnson, 1974). Either process can be modified to produce higher purity cellulose that is not only free of lignins and

hemicellulose, but also further degraded to result in reduced molecular weight products and derivatives (Kirk-Othmer,

1993; Whistler, 1997). Various sulfite processes are used for delignification of the pulp, including the bisulfite process -

which uses calcium bisulfite in the presence of sulfur dioxide at a pH range of 2-6 on various wood species.

Alkali processes use either caustic soda (dilute sodium hydroxide) as the pulping agent or sodium sulfate (Kraft process) as

the source of alkali. Kraft pulping liquor contains caustic soda and sodium sulfide, and increases the delignification and

also pulp strength. Chemicals used in the pulping process are potential pollutants that may be recovered, adding costs to

the mill investment. New mills are designed to consider energy efficiency, chemical recovery, and water pollution. A newer

oxygen alkali system avoids the use of sulfur compounds, but the fibers have lower tear strength.

Another method for breaking down lignocellulose (other than the Kraft or sulfite process) is steam explosion. This uses

moisture saturated wood chips subjected to high pressure and temperatures and involves milder conditions for paper

manufacturer and molded building materials. (Kirk-Othmer, 1993).

After pulping, several steps are required, including bleaching and alkali extraction, to develop products with the desired

molecular weight and physical length of the fibers. Bleaching may include up to twelve steps of chlorination, hypochlorite

bleaching, chlorine dioxide bleaching, and extraction with concentrated sodium hydroxide along with intermediate alkaline

extraction (washing) after each oxidative stage. It must be purified and bleached to meet the specifications of Food

Chemicals Codex. Purification may involve addition of surfactants in another hot weakly alkaline extraction step after

chlorination. Another option is to treat pulp with another bath of 6-10% sodium hydroxide after the bleaching is finished.

Final stages in most purification plants include the use of sulfuric acid and optional chelating agents (Kirk-Othmer, 1993).

[lovegrov]

Thanks for this, I have been glutened by store brand cheeses. I just didn't feel comfortable saying so without a link to prove it. Thanks

I'm sorry if you've been glutened by store cheese, but cellulose is not the culprit. It simply does not have gluten.

richard

[Nancym]

What the heck is 'GRONOLA'?

[DingoGirl]

What the heck is 'GRONOLA'?

It's like...."crunchy. " YOu know, a not-so-new-term for crunch-muffins (kind of earthy, Birkenstock-wearing hippie-ish types, probably so-named because they used to make their own granola?).

I am just a bit crunchy myself, except that I do get my hair dyed in a salon (it's half-gray now), and I do wear makeup. so, maybe that cancels it out....... Oh wait, I also wear fake boob inserts from Victoria's Secret.....okay so maybe I'm not so crunchy.

Just bringing some levity here, folks.

[Rusla]

So gluten doesn't have to be listed in Canada?

I asked abou the CYA because another poster said that's what she got from the company.

richard

Not yet, they are getting around to it...ever so slowly. I wish they would put a move on getting full discloser on packaging sooner.

[VegasCeliacBuckeye]

If it helps, I have asked Lucerne, Kroger, Kraft and Killamook (all companies that make shredded cheese), all of them (at one time or another) have stated that their shredded cheese was gluten free and the celluslose was gluten free.

The cellulose thing is a Celiac "Urban Legend"....similar to distilled vinegar, peanut butter and clear liquors.

Richard, I will disagree with your assertion regarding Celiacs and allergies. I don't have hard numbers, so I can only base my assertion on my experiences.

It seems to me that a great number of celiacs have other allergies/intolerances than gluten. I can't say "most" or "some", but I can say that it seems to be quite common for a person who has celiac or G.I. to also have additional intolerances.

[Nancym]

It's like...."crunchy. " YOu know, a not-so-new-term for crunch-muffins (kind of earthy, Birkenstock-wearing hippie-ish types, probably so-named because they used to make their own granola?).

I am just a bit crunchy myself, except that I do get my hair dyed in a salon (it's half-gray now), and I do wear makeup. so, maybe that cancels it out....... Oh wait, I also wear fake boob inserts from Victoria's Secret.....okay so maybe I'm not so crunchy.

Just bringing some levity here, folks.

Did they mean GRANOLA? Or is this some new hip thing I'm completely unaware of. Even the urban dictionary was no help! Crunch-muffins? LOL!

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Tiffany and Broncobux, thank you for your reassuring clarifications of the cellulose issue!

Richard, please do not send me any more harrassing pm's. If you have a problem with my daring to post questions,feel free to contact Scott or whatever authority you wish.

Electra, I am sorry this got hijacked from your original topic.

[ravenwoodglass]

I'm sorry if you've been glutened by store cheese, but cellulose is not the culprit. It simply does not have gluten.

richard

Perhaps it was oats? Perhaps it was CC, perhaps I'm crazy. For me the effects of gluten are too great to risk not calling on anything I put in my mouth or on my skin. The companies whose cheese I buy now doesn't even put this substance in no matter what the form, they use potato starch. They are very celiac savvy and won't even label a pickle gluten free if it contains wheat derived distilled vinager. It's nice to know I can have a pickle and not wake up with a blistering rash. Thank goodness for Wegmans and their being as 'overcautious' I am.

From above article:

Cellulose can also be produced from various other plant fibers, such as corn cobs or stalks, soybean

hulls, bagasse (sugar cane stalks), oat hulls, rice hulls, wheat straw, sugar beet pulp, bamboo, and fibers such as jute, flax,

and ramie among others (Hanna, 2001; Ang, 2001; Franz, 1990).

[lovegrov]

Fiddle-Faddle,

I did not send you a harrassing pm. I quite properly took a personal discussion private instead of continuing it in public, andf I sent just one message. That was the mature and right thing to do. I'm sorry you felt you couldn't answer privately and ask me not to pm you instead of publicly accusing me of harrassing you. I would send this post privately except that you requested I not do so.

"Tiffany and Broncobux, thank you for your reassuring clarifications of the cellulose issue!"

This is further evidence of the intent of your most recent posts to me. Tiffany and Broncobux did provide some good information and I also thank them, yet when I provided similar info (and in fact even more detailed arguments about why cellulose is not a problem), I was being "superior" and "nasty," in your words.

As I said in my pm to you, please discontinue your obvious searching out of my posts for the sole purpose of sniping at me. I'm tired of it.

richard

[lovegrov]

Ravenwoodglass,

I have no idea what it would be. I don't think oat hulls are a standard source of cellulose in food.

richard

[Judyin Philly]

ANGIE..SO GLAD THE MEETING WAS SO HELPFUL AND YOU HAD A GOOD TIME

JUDY