Kimberly-clark

[blueeyedmanda]

I just don't want it to be known around the celiac world that "Boy, if you want to post on Celiac.com, you better really know your stuff, or else they will jump all over you!"

Karen

I never looked at it this way, Karen you have a very good point

[Mtndog]

Exactly. And I know when I first went gluten-free, I thought it was in EVERYTHING (I mean, I know it is ) but I was a little overly exuberant and got attacked on several occasions. I wasn't correct- my information was indeed wrong- but I was posting what I had heard and read in an effort to do what I thought was something helpful-trying to prevent another person from getting sick. Turned out I was wrong but it's all about learning and reading critically.

And you are right, tone is incredibly difficult to convey online. I think that's where a lot of misunderstandings come from.

[Mango04]

and therein lies the problem:

Where some people saw "attitude", I saw "over-exhuberence".....

Karen

Thank you! Everyone who feels so offended by Srokie's posts should really go back and reread them. But this time change the tone in your head. You'll see it's possible that she doesn't have "attitude" at all.

This whole thing is just ridiculous....

[darlindeb25]

I honestly do not think I jumped all over Srokie. I thanked her for posting and I did say I was emailing Kimberly Clark, which I have. I wasn't mean to her in any of her threads. I too feel that she just is overloaded with what she has learned and may just be confusing some of it.

I for one do not trust a company until it has passed a test with me. So far, I have not had a problem with Kraft products. Yet, they are in business to make money and yes, I feel they will hide things too, if they feel they can get away with it. The new law is not being policed as of yet, many companies will not change things until they get caught.

It happens all the time. In Michigan, everything must have a price ticket on it or the store can be fined and the law states that you get double the money back up to $5. when it is an error you catch before leaving the store. New York has the very same law, yet it is very rare to find price tickets on items here and they are not policed.

We have a problem with a grocery store here in my town, the milk spoils a week before the expiration date. I reported it to the Dept of Ag. They investigated, they told me they realize there is a problem in this store, they told me not to return milk any longer because the store will not refund the price because the supplier will not reimburse the store, it is the store at fault. So then the Dept of Ag called me and told me that even he would not buy milk in that store, that he knows there is a problem--YET, that store is still open for business and selling spoiled milk. I do not purchase milk or dairy products there. If the Dept of Ag is not doing it's job in this situation, WHY would we think they are taking care of the new law???

I have heard over and over again about Quaker Rice Cakes containing gluten--I have not once been glutened by them, nor have I ever had problems with regular Lays Potato Chips!

We have to watch out for ourselves and help the newbies.

[Rachel--24]

and therein lies the problem:

Where some people saw "attitude", I saw "over-exhuberence".....

Exactly...this is what I saw as well....a very excited 20 year old. I gathered from her posts that she was very very sick until this doctor helped her. I think that would definately lead to a great deal of exhuberance and faith in the doctor.

I'm not even 20 years old but I can tell you this....when I found new Dr.'s who understood how to treat me....I was EXCITED. And yeah...if someone comes along and is able to give me back my health...I'm pretty sure if they also told me to avoid Planters Peanuts I'd do it!!!

Its a very exciting thing for her...to be getting her health back. Shes excited and why shouldnt she be??

Unfortuneately people were skeptical of her (for whatever reason) and it led to a trend of making every effort to discredit her...or make her feel unwelcome.

[blueeyedmanda]

Deb-

I cannot believe they are still selling spoiled milk...eww! Shouldn't there be some fine there? In PA, some stores ticket and some do not. It is interesting how laws vary state to state.

[Scott Adams]

Hello Everyone,

For some reason, lately, many members' energy seems to be going into debating each other rather than trying to help each other. I hope we'll be able to refocus our energy soon to where it is needed.

Ragarding Srokie, as a general rule it is the person who presents the extradinary claim that is required to also back it up with extraordinary evidence. I learned this myself about 10 years ago when posting something to the Celiac Listserv about the possibility that milk might contain gluten because it is fortified with vitamins (I found out that my concern wasn't true, the vitamins in milk do not contain gluten, and several Listserv members rightly turned my claim around on me and wanted me to support it with evidence).

Much about celiac disease and gluten content has been learned over the years, and anyone who makes extrodinary claims in a public forum like this has a responsibility to back them up with evidence. Asking questions is one thing, but just for the record this is an extrodinary claim (the post goes on to make even more claims than just this, and they are not brought up as questions, but are done in a voice that will raise fear in some):

"Anyway, any toilet paper and paper towels made by Kimberly-Clark are dusted with flour to make them more absorbent. (I don't know if it extends to tissues or not, but I'm guessing it does.)." She goes on to mention specific brands.

and for the record this isn't extraordinary evidence:

"I got this information from a celiac at my college, who got it from a celiac newsletter or magazine.. or something..."

It is not responsible to present information in a public forum this way. A simple phone call by the poster to Kimerly-Clark could be made, probably for free, to determine is it is true or not.

It isn't up to everyone here to make the call for Skrokie to disprove this.

Take care,

Scott

[Michi8]

I havent seen you or anyone else come under attack in the same rude and unwelcoming manner that Srokie was. She started 3 topics and was insulted and attacked in every one of them. I dont think shes walking away with her tail between her legs. I think shes fed up....plain and simple....and I dont blame her.

Perhaps you were away at that point. There has been at least one instance that I've seen someone get "attacked" by others on the board since I joined last summer...there were a few threads that got somewhat ugly. There was a huge amount of negativity around here at the time, and it lead to a few people stepping away from the board for a bit as well.

Now, I didn't claim that I got "attacked," but I have had instances where there have been posters very quick to set me straight, question the validity of my information, or tell me I'm wrong...even though I try to be careful by providing links to information, or presenting my thoughts as experiences I've had rather than the absolute truth. In some cases I feel others were responding without carefully reading what I wrote, and then from that point, the thread seems to take on a life of its own.

Now that is sometimes just the way forums like this go. This certainly isn't the only place with heated discussions, skepticism, wariness about trolls, etc.

Michelle

[mtdawber]

As a "newbie" you guys have been great. I usually learn a lot and that's why I keep coming back.

[Nancym]

Just as an aside about this whole using wheat flour to put on manufacturing lines.... Have you ever made bread? More importantly, have you ever worked with wheat gluten? It is the stickiest, hardest stuff to clean you can imagine when it gets wet. It really is glue-like. I can't imagine anyone would risk gumming up their machines with it if it some how got wet. And using toilet paper coated with gluten sounds like a truly evil college prank. When it got wet... ew gross! I won't verbalize the visual picture I currently am entertaining!

Now I can totally believe it could be used in glues or even to get paper fibers to stick together. But not to make something more absorbent!

[AmandaD]

Hi guys - Interesting thread.

Just thought I'd throw this out there because I called both Planters and K-C recently (probably within the last 6 months). I'm a neurotic celiac, I call about everything - my phone is practically attached to my ear.

I was told K-C's paper products were all safe from gluten and I was told by Planters that they would list ingredients fully if their peanut products contained WBRO.

I'll probably double-check and call for myself tomorrow or Tuesday just to double-check everything; but I specifically have my family using VIVA paper towels, SCOTT Toilet tissue and I don't seem to react to Planters Honey Roasted nuts.

Amanda

[almostnrn]

According to the Clan Thompson list the following products are NOT gluten free:

Angel Soft Toilet Paper, Brawny Paper Towels, Mardi Gras Napkins and Paper towels, Quilted Northern Toilet Paper, Soft and Gentle Toilet Paper, Brawny Paper Towels and Sparkle Paper towels. This is due to "trace amounts of gluten in glue used to hold paper together and in roll sealant". The modified startch is derived from corn in Cottonelle toilet paper and it is considered gluten free.

I hope that lays to rest at least one of the issues at hand. As far as any company goes there is no way I trust anyone a hundred percent. All we can hope for is that they will indeed be upfront and honest about their products. I don't think that anyone who doesn't have or care for a celiac really gets just HOW sick gluten makes us. We can't expect a resturant, major company, etc..to see it from our point of view especially when the bottom line gets in the way. I have to say that I am shocked and quite honestly saddened by this entire thread. There is a wealth on knowledge here at Celiac.com. I had been gluten free for 1 1/2 years before finding this website and I have learned so much. You have answered questions that my doctors couldn't, made me laugh when I was miserable and tired of being sick and generally made me feel like I wasn't all alone in this world. For that, I thank you all. However, I don't understand how or why this got so out of control?! Reading this whole thing made me feel like I was in high school again. Let's face it guys, we are all different people. Some people are more adamant about avoiding gluten than others, some are funny, some are sad...you get the point. I would rather see a retort with kindness and facts to back it up vs. a smack on the hand for trying.

[Viola 1]

I love a good discussion. I was a little alarmed at the deffinite tone of the start of the soy thread, and the paper thread as well. It would have gone over much better if she had said 'have you heard this, or did you know" in front of the statement. But it's done now, can't reverse it.

How about every one agreeing to disagree and get on with life

On an asside ... Rachel, how do you know that Kraft has more MSG than any other company? Just curious ... not an attack!

[Sillyyakdidi]

Ok, i want to ask a question, i was under the impression that as long as you are not eating toilet paper or shampoo, it did not matter if gluten was in it, can someone xplain otherwise? thanks!

[Sillyyakdidi]

Ok, i want to ask a question, i was under the impression that as long as you are not eating toilet paper or shampoo, it did not matter if gluten was in it, can someone xplain otherwise? thanks!

[almostnrn]

I can explain from my point of view, not really sure how others view it. Say for instance I handle or use something on my skin that contains gluten. Blow my nose on some toilet paper, use gluten filled lotion, gluten filled hair products then run my hands through my hair, etc and then I pick up some food, stick my finger in my mouth that type of thing blam you have just ingested gluten. Also, any shampoo or soap that contains gluten can very easily get in your mouth during a shower. Hope that helps!

[Sillyyakdidi]

I can explain from my point of view, not really sure how others view it. Say for instance I handle or use something on my skin that contains gluten. Blow my nose on some toilet paper, use gluten filled lotion, gluten filled hair products then run my hands through my hair, etc and then I pick up some food, stick my finger in my mouth that type of thing blam you have just ingested gluten. Also, any shampoo or soap that contains gluten can very easily get in your mouth during a shower. Hope that helps!

ok i can see what you mean with that one

[Viola 1]

Gluten has to be ingested to cause intestinal damage.

I have been gluten free since 1989 and when I was diagnosed I knew of no one in this area with Celiac disease. We hadn't even heard of the disease, and I didn't have a computer until 1998 when we finally got a private phone line instead of party lines ... yes, you remember them.

Anyway ... All I knew to do was to eat fresh foods with no bread at all, and of course no baked goodies etc. This area had just never heard of the disease, and so carried no specialty products. I used regular soap, toilet paper, tissue, dish soap, creams and make-up ... although I did learn about lipstick through trial and error. I got better and healed fairly well. So ... either the products I have been using all these years are accidently gluten free, or I've never ingested them.

Who knows for sure. Considering all this, I do not for myself worry about things like toilet paper, laundry soap, and shampoos, or anything else I put on my hair.

Having said that, a lot of people do, and you will have to make your own decisions. I do recommend checking things like make-up though!

[psawyer]

Ok, i want to ask a question, i was under the impression that as long as you are not eating toilet paper or shampoo, it did not matter if gluten was in it, can someone xplain otherwise? thanks!

While I don't think toilet paper matters, shampoo gets onto your face and can get into your mouth. Once there, it gets swallowed, and even in small amounts can cause the celiac autoimmune reaction. Facial cosmetics, lipstick and other things can be ingested in small quantities and thereby lead to problems.

As for what you use to wipe your nether regions, I don't think it is likely to be ingested, but somebody on here may think otherwise . I always wash my hands after using toilet paper...

[Canadian Karen]

Ok, i want to ask a question, i was under the impression that as long as you are not eating toilet paper or shampoo, it did not matter if gluten was in it, can someone xplain otherwise? thanks!

Sure, no problem.... There are some celiacs (Thank God I am not one of them, I've got my own demons to deal with!) who react to gluten even touching their skin. There are those who even if they touch bread to make a sandwich for their children, their hands break out. There are many with DH who react to gluten even touching their skin.... This is why there are threads discussing everything from hand towels and toilet paper to why it is important for shampoos, hair dyes, etc. to be gluten free, for those who are that sensitive......

Hope this explains it abit........

Hugs!

Karen

[Sillyyakdidi]

Sure, no problem.... There are some celiacs (Thank God I am not one of them, I've got my own demons to deal with!) who react to gluten even touching their skin. There are those who even if they touch bread to make a sandwich for their children, their hands break out. There are many with DH who react to gluten even touching their skin.... This is why there are threads discussing everything from hand towels and toilet paper to why it is important for shampoos, hair dyes, etc. to be gluten free, for those who are that sensitive......

Hope this explains it abit........

Hugs!

Karen

ok from what ya'll said, it pretty much seems like a personal choice, and i can understand those with DH being super careful, ive been gluten-free for two years, and ocassionaly i eat out and get glutened (im in college, all we do is eat! and its hard to not be able to eat anything), but i think i've been ok from toilet paper. I'm the type of celiac who chooses to not live in a bubble. However, I will admit when i get closer to having children one day, I probably will be back here asking if there is gluten in everything under the sun because i want to make sure im 100 percent healthy for that...but for now, i think ill consider toilet paper a calculated risk lol. but seriously, thanks everyone for your help, and i will check out the makeup.

[Sillyyakdidi]

While I don't think toilet paper matters, shampoo gets onto your face and can get into your mouth. Once there, it gets swallowed, and even in small amounts can cause the celiac autoimmune reaction. Facial cosmetics, lipstick and other things can be ingested in small quantities and thereby lead to problems.

As for what you use to wipe your nether regions, I don't think it is likely to be ingested, but somebody on here may think otherwise . I always wash my hands after using toilet paper...

your post made me laugh, thanks for the help!

[blueeyedmanda]

At first I didn't think I had to worry about the shampoos and conditioners until I found myself having a very irritated itchy scalp. I did some research and switched to non-wheat containing shampoo and the problem seemed to resolve. Everyone does react differently so it is up to personal opinion.

As for toliet paper and paper towels I never had a problem with them and I use the Scott brand. We use paper towels to clean and wipe hands and everything in my home.

We use bounty most of the time cause we buy it in bulk, but when we run out sometimes we use whatever is on sale.

[Mtndog]

Ok - this thread needs a competition for cutest cat, #1. PSawyer and sillyyakdidi, your cats are so cute.

I actually was pretty disturbed almostnrn by this: "According to the Clan Thompson list the following products are NOT gluten free:

Angel Soft Toilet Paper, Brawny Paper Towels, Mardi Gras Napkins and Paper towels, Quilted Northern Toilet Paper, Soft and Gentle Toilet Paper, Brawny Paper Towels and Sparkle Paper towels. This is due to "trace amounts of gluten in glue used to hold paper together and in roll sealant". The modified startch is derived from corn in Cottonelle toilet paper and it is considered gluten free. "

I haven't looked at Clan Thompson's list lately, but I NEVER even thought about that. i am one of thos ridiculously sensitive celiacs who does have to worry about it and i will occasionally wipe my mouth with a paper towel. I'd be the luclky one that would react!

That's DEFINITELY problematic for people with actual wheat allergies too! See, i just learned something.

[Lisa]

Ok, i want to ask a question, i was under the impression that as long as you are not eating toilet paper or shampoo, it did not matter if gluten was in it, can someone xplain otherwise? thanks!

To my knowlege, no one here eats toilet paper, LOL, but what do I know. Shampoo can get into your mouth during a shower. Some are sensitive to wheat in their products, and may result in being glutened or an outbreak in DH.

Thanks for asking. We are here and we are nice.

I am so, the last to post to this question. But, certainly have enjoyed the others.