Confused About Soy

[Anonymousgurl]

deleted

[tarnalberry]

It's not "Good" or "Bad" - it just is. You don't want to eat oodles and oodles of it, and you don't have to avoid it entirely if you're not sensitive to it. (There's thought that those with thyroid problems *are* sensitive to the compounds in it, so that may be a reason to avoid it other than an allergy or intolerance.)

2 cups a day isn't huge quantities, though it's not a tiny amount either. It's ... "eh". (Not much help, am I? ) As you say, you have to pick your battles.

If you're looking for other options, since you note you think you may react to it:

Intead of soy milk in cereal, you can try:

• rice milk
  
• almond milk
  
• hazelnut milk
  
• dairy-free (potato based milk)
  

Instead of soy milk in a smoothie, you can try water and a protein powder:

• rice protein
  
• hemp protein
  
• peaceful planet's gluten-free mix
  
• pea protein
  
• egg protein (if you can find it without whey)
  

[BRUMI1968]

Out of curiosity, have you tried goat milk?

[Aizlynn]

Drinking goat milk is not the yummiest thing, it has "that taste" but goat cheese is da bomb! especially melted on a gluten-free pesto pizza

[Mango04]

I think the most important thing is to listen to your own body. It's hard for anyone else to tell you if it's good or bad. You might continue to be okay with that amount of soy everyday. I know when you react to multiple foods, it can be difficult to tell what's going on, but...if the soy reactions get any worse, don't ignore that.

I used to drink about two cups of soymilk every day as well. For the longest time, I would just react slightly, once in a while. I started adding more and more soy and eventually it gave me horrible symptoms, including really severe throat swelling. Now I'm certain that *any* amount of soy is really bad for me. I'm not saying that's gonna happen to you. Just carefully watch what's going on with your own body, and if the soy becomes a bad thing for you, you'll likely know it.

What other "milks" do you react to? I seem to react to the carageenen in many dairy-free milks. I'm thinking of making my own almond milk one of these days. Something like that might be an option for you as well.

[dlp252]

You can also just cut the soy milk down with a little water so that at the end of the day you're only having 8 oz total. In something like cereal or a shake it might not be noticable taste wise. I used to do this if I wanted to keep the sugars down, sometimes 50/50 and sometimes a little more soy milk to water ratio. It might be a way that you can still have some, but cut it back a little.

[Anonymousgurl]

You can also just cut the soy milk down with a little water so that at the end of the day you're only having 8 oz total. In something like cereal or a shake it might not be noticable taste wise. I used to do this if I wanted to keep the sugars down, sometimes 50/50 and sometimes a little more soy milk to water ratio. It might be a way that you can still have some, but cut it back a little.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the input.

Watering it down for my cereal is actually an excellent idea. I think I'll do that.

I was just wondering if anyone had heard anything about the "dangers" of soy. Apparently there are a few articles out there that argue that soy may be heart healthy, but it's dangerous in other aspects. I was just wondering about everyone's take on that.

[Mango04]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the input.

Watering it down for my cereal is actually an excellent idea. I think I'll do that.

I was just wondering if anyone had heard anything about the "dangers" of soy. Apparently there are a few articles out there that argue that soy may be heart healthy, but it's dangerous in other aspects. I was just wondering about everyone's take on that.

here's some info:

Open Original Shared Link

[Rachel--24]

I seem to react to the carageenen in many dairy-free milks.

Mango...me too! Carageenan does very bad things to me.

Its actually one of those "hidden" MSG ingredients. Carageenan = MSG.

Peace,

I agree with what everyone is saying....listen to your body. I cant do soy at all....I even tried one brand of soymilk that was basically just organic soy and water....and about half way through the carton I started reacting....pretty badly. I'm scared of soy now.

I think its mainly because of leaky gut...I'm thinking it wouldnt be so horrible if it was being digested properly and not leaking into the bloodstream.

It is believed that soy can cause or worsen thyroid problems.

[Rachel--24]

Thanks for that link Mango!!

Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during soy food processing and additional amounts are added to many soy foods.

I had wondered if this was actually the real reason for my reaction to soy. I bet it is.

I think my body reacts so violently to MSG because its such a potent nuerotoxin and its entering my bloodstream via the leaky gut...not a good thing.

[Ursa Major]

Whenever I make myself cream of buckwheat (once or twice a week) I eat it with maple syrup and some goats milk, and seem to be okay. I tried drinking it straight once, and didn't think it was too bad. But I stopped drinking any type of milk about 27 years ago, and don't need any.

You don't notice the taste one way or another in cereal. I used rice dream before finding out I am intolerant to rice, and would never have had it straight, as I disliked the taste. But it was fine with cereal. On the other hand, I have always absolutely hated the taste of soy milk.

[Juliebove]

Westsoy makes a rice milk. If I were you I'd switch to that. My daughter is allergic to soy. It's becoming one of the "big" allergens. I also avoid soy due to a thyroid problem. Actually my thyroid problem stopped once I stopped the soy. I can't say that I ate a ton of it but I did have Tiger's Milk bars on occasion and also roasted soy nuts, Edamade and Bocca burgers. Since mine isn't an allergy I don't worry about it if I see soy lecithin in chewing gum or vitamins but I don't consume flat out soy.

[Yenni]

Its actually one of those "hidden" MSG ingredients. Carageenan = MSG.

Thanks for mentioning that. I ate some Salmon burger thingy that had that. My mother in law told me it was a spice.

So I am a little slow; MSG actually comes from Soy?

I do very bad on Soy (all legumes) myself. I didn't do too well on that Salmon burger..

I think sometimes it takes a while for symptoms to start.

[tarnalberry]

I'm a little confused on the "carrageenan = MSG" claim.

Open Original Shared Link is derived from seaweed (harvested, dried, ground, sifted, washed, centrifuged, and further dehydrated). It's a Open Original Shared Link (lots of sugars), molecularly.

MSG is a Open Original Shared Link. It can be produced by the body, and is found naturally in tomatoes, cheese, and mushrooms.

Some places are claiming that reactions with milk protein cause carrageenan to release glutamic acid, but I don't know enough chemistry...

I'm certainly not trying to discredit anyone saying carageenan bothers them - polysaccharides can be tough on the digestive system sometimes. But I can't figure out the "carageenan = msg" statement, nor have I seen any *explanation* beyond claims in my research. Any help?

[Rachel--24]

MSG is a Open Original Shared Link. It can be produced by the body, and is found naturally in tomatoes, cheese, and mushrooms.

Tiffany,

Actually MSG is not produced by the body. MSG is not "natural". The stuff that the body produces and that is naturally found in tomatoes, cheese and mushrooms is natural bound glutamate....which is not harmful.

Its only when glutamates are "freed" during processing that it becomes the neurotoxin that is called MSG.

MSG originally came from seaweed....as does carageenan. Nowadays, most MSG is from corn and tapioca (also cane and beet sugar)....which are naturally high in glutamates, readily available and CHEAP.

Coca leaf tea is not a hard drug, but when you take the active constituents of the coca tea and you refine them into a highly concentrated format, then you get cocaine. That's when it becomes a problem. The same thing is true with MSG. If you're eating seaweed, that's not a problem for your health; in fact seaweed is very good for you and it's now shown to actually prevent and even help treat cancer. But if you take MSG out of seaweed or you synthesize MSG and put it into a highly concentrated form, then it functions as a neurotoxin -- that's why it's called an excitotoxin by Dr. Russell Blaylock, who is perhaps the world's foremost authority on MSG and other excitotoxins such as aspartame.

There is alot of info about carageenan containing MSG....here is some that I've read

Monosodium glutamate in the form of a dried seaweed (Kombu) has been used for thousands of years in East Asian countries. Today, free glutamate or MSG is made from many different raw materials (mostly corn) using various chemical processes previously mentioned. Strong acids, alkalies, enzymes, bacteria, and heat are used to hydrolyze animal, vegetable, or milk products. Calcium and sodium caseinate are products of hydrolyzed milk protein. Maltodextrin comes from processed corn and although corn syrup and cornstarch are not as highly processed as maltodextrin is, they may not be totally free of glutamate as a result of their production. Yeast extract or autolyzed yeast is made by chemically processing natural yeast in a method similar to hydrolyzing. Barley malt and malt extract have small amounts of MSG because of an enzyme reaction used to produce them. Whey protein concentrate or protein isolate may contain MSG if hydrolyzed milk proteins are present or added. Soy protein isolate or soy protein concentrate is processed from soy beans and is often a component of textured protein. Most smoke flavor or smoke flavorings use hydrolyzed protein to intensify flavor. Some other "free" glutamate containing products are gelatins, which are highly processed by-products of animal protein that always contain MSG in varying amounts, and soy sauce, made from a fermentation process of soy beans. MSG can also be added to cheaper brands of soy sauce to enhance the flavor.Carrageenan is made from a type of seaweed known as Irish moss. It may contain MSG depending on its manufacturer. MSG or hydrolyzed milk protein is often added to it. The book, Battling the MSG Myth goes on to cover many other hidden sources and the foods in which they are hidden.

Also....any hydrolyzed protein contains MSG. If the carrageenan started out with MSG and then hydrolyzed milk protein is added to it....well that just *increases* the amount of MSG in the final product.

Carrageenan is one of the ingredients which almost always contains MSG or creates MSG in its processing.

Carrageenan is found on every list of ingredients to avoid when avoiding MSG.

Heres one list...

Open Original Shared Link

I'm extremely sensitive to MSG due to leaky gut.

I would have to say that carrageenan probably has MSG in it nearly 100% of the time since I have reacted to every product containing it.

[bluejeangirl]

I started to include soy in my diet in January but I'm kicking it out again because I too noticed a reaction when ever I had more then 1/2 cup of soy milk. I wanted the soy mainly as a protein so I wouldn't have to eat eggs all the time. I'm one of those who cannot tolerate MSG in any amount whatsoever.

So carrageenen is also in almond milk so I guess if I made that myself I could have it but it seems like just another thing I have to do. I won't have rice milk because its too high in carbo's and I'm on a candida diet.

I was wondering if anyone has ever tried to dilute cream to have if you want something to have over a cereal? I don't have dairy but can tolerate it in small amts. Its not a big issue, for instance I can have yogurt every once in awhile and I'm find with it.

I'm thinking of diluting cream by the same amt of water.

Gail

[tarnalberry]

Tiffany,

Actually MSG is not produced by the body. MSG is not "natural". The stuff that the body produces and that is naturally found in tomatoes, cheese and mushrooms is natural bound glutamate....which is not harmful.

Its only when glutamates are "freed" during processing that it becomes the neurotoxin that is called MSG.

MSG originally came from seaweed....as does carageenan. Nowadays, most MSG is from corn and tapioca (also cane and beet sugar)....which are naturally high in glutamates, readily available and CHEAP.

Huh... I was unable to find any non-promoting material talking about this. No reliable sources... (I do not actually trust 'truthinlabeling' as a truely reliable source. I'm not trying to say that I don't believe you, but that it's still not adding up for me, is all. I would be interested in clearing up the conflicting information regarding the creating of MGS by the body, when I have more time, however. (I'm glad you guys are on the board to help those who have problems with this, of course, if this helps them!)

[Rachel--24]

Huh... I was unable to find any non-promoting material talking about this. No reliable sources... (I do not actually trust 'truthinlabeling' as a truely reliable source. I'm not trying to say that I don't believe you, but that it's still not adding up for me, is all. I would be interested in clearing up the conflicting information regarding the creating of MGS by the body, when I have more time, however. (I'm glad you guys are on the board to help those who have problems with this, of course, if this helps them!)

Tiffany,

Yeah, I agree that TruthinLabeling is very anti-msg but for the most part all that I've read there seems to ring true. I get the classic type MSG reactions of burning across the shoulders, tightness/swelling in my head, upset tummy, etc.

I dont think I would have believed this stuff when I was healthy but when you're "living it" and experiencing the symptoms....well, you tend to start believing that these things really DO happen.

Glutamates are produced within the body but the *main* difference is that these "natural occurring" glutamates are not "freed"....they are bound.

Glutamates in their "freed" form create MSG..."monosodium glutamate".

They are two seperate things...one is made from the other. Our bodies do not naturally produce "freed" glutamate. Our bodies dont *make* MSG....people make MSG out of "freed" glutamate.

The end result is a powerful "flavor enhancer" which happens to be a neurotoxin.

Heres a "neutral" site that probably explains it alot better.

Open Original Shared Link

[AndreaB]

Tiffany,

Dr. Blaylock's book Excitotoxins goes into msg among other things. Also Dr. Schwartz (sp?) was the first to write a book about msg. Maybe you could go to the library and check them out.

[tarnalberry]

even that article discussing the chemistry notes that the free form naturally occurs in foods. ("free" here meaning the anionic form - so once it's in solution, anything with enough liquid to dissassociate the ionic bond - including saliva, it's 'free'. and it's this free form that the taste buds can pick up on.) so I don't see how it could help but be produced, at low levels, in the body.

it leaves me feeling that there are a number of people with very low tolerance levels, or with some variety of immune reaction (based on what you and others have described), to either version, and the levels that occur naturally are below this, but any addition is a problem... ?

(as for wiki being 'neutral'... ha! it's definitely not! at least the chemistry on that page was quite helpful, though. thanks for the link.)

[bluejeangirl]

even that article discussing the chemistry notes that the free form naturally occurs in foods. ("free" here meaning the anionic form - so once it's in solution, anything with enough liquid to dissassociate the ionic bond - including saliva, it's 'free'. and it's this free form that the taste buds can pick up on.) so I don't see how it could help but be produced, at low levels, in the body.

it leaves me feeling that there are a number of people with very low tolerance levels, or with some variety of immune reaction (based on what you and others have described), to either version, and the levels that occur naturally are below this, but any addition is a problem... ?

(as for wiki being 'neutral'... ha! it's definitely not! at least the chemistry on that page was quite helpful, though. thanks for the link.)

Yes I believe this is true. That's why I can't do the paleo diet. Having all that protein jacks me up just like I was having caffeine. It will disrupt my sleep and its hard to feel relaxed. I used to feel like I was manic/depressive but stuck in the manic stage all the time. But then I realized when I would come down from mania it would be that I didn't have alot of protein and had a day of eating carbs.

The longer you cook a protein, like if I have a roast that's been in the oven for 3 hrs. the reaction becomes worse. And the worse is having MSG itself and then what happens to me is my heart starts to beat rapidly and I sometimes pass out.

Gail

[hathor]

For a different look at soy, critical of the position of the Weston Price Foundation's Fallon and Enig:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link (specifically about the way the WPF cites studies)

Similarly see:

Open Original Shared Link

I know this isn't the place to debate this subject. Just realize that there is a controversy and read both sides. Of course, you can solve the problem by using rice milk or the like

Personally, I think natural soy products are fine as a small part of one's diet, but have removed isolated soy proteins as a result of this article, which also addresses the studies on soy, pro and con: Open Original Shared Link

It seems best to stay away from the manufactured stuff, supplements, etc.

If you want to avoid isolated soy proteins, check labels. I've seen them added to some soy milks and are common in soy cheeses and "meats." But they get added into other products as well.

[Rachel--24]

The longer you cook a protein, like if I have a roast that's been in the oven for 3 hrs. the reaction becomes worse. And the worse is having MSG itself and then what happens to me is my heart starts to beat rapidly and I sometimes pass out.

I only have problems with glutamates in food after I've eaten something with MSG in it. It seems to overload my system so that I am unable to tolerate free glutamates which occur from cooking proteins.

It takes sometimes up to two weeks for my reactions to subside.

I always have a problem with soup though...I cant tolerate making stews or broths or anything where meat has been slow-cooking for a long time. Its just too much free glutamates for me.

[tarnalberry]

I cant tolerate making stews or broths or anything where meat has been slow-cooking for a long time. Its just too much free glutamates for me.

Make stew without slow-cooking it! Tri tip makes a great 25-minute cook time stew (just long enough for the potatoes to cook). Any tender meat won't need the stewing time. (This assumes, of course, that you want to eat stew. )

Or make soup but put the meat in last - like if you're making chicken-rice soup, put the chicken in with 15 minutes to go on the rice. It'll taste a little different, but still be just fine.

[diamondheart]

Hi Peace,

I don't drink any of the alternate milk products because they have way too much added sugar in one form or another, which I would think wouldn't be good for your candida. Unsweetened soy milk is just nasty .

Can you have coconut milk? I use it in place of milk and cream for a lot of things. It has the added benefit of having antimicrobial and antifungal properties. You might have some loose stools when you first start drinking it, but that's just because of the die off it's causing.

The processed soy products scare me . A lot of our soy is very genetically modified, either through breeding or gene splicing. Kinda like corn products. I used to have problems when I drank a lot of soy milk, so I cut it out entirely.

Claire