Alcohol

[gfp]

It is generally accepted in North America that caramel color is safe. Mostly it is derived from corn, but even if it isn't, the processing involved eliminates any gluten from the final product. I said "generally accepted," and I fully expect Steve Lord (gfp) to jump in here and disagree. Steve and I agree to disagree on the safety of some things.

Most experts now believe that distillation removes gluten. Again, Steve disagrees with all those experts.

Draw you own conclusion. I don't worry about caramel color, and I consider distilled alcohol and vinegar to be safe regardless of origin. Your mileage may vary .

OK, I'll jump in.

The so called experts are not chemists but nutritionists with apparently little or no post-grad chemistry.

Our 'disagreement' over safety is just that.... I believe a product is not safe unless actually tested as such or cannot contain gluten.

I have not seen ANY evidence of safe levels of gluten.

This does not mean distilled alcohol contains gluten, it means I have seen no scientific proof it does not.

The myth about distilled alcohol being safe has two fundamental flaws.

Firstly it seems to hinge on the size of the gluten molecule.

This is a little like saying your car has a bigger engine than mine so it is faster.

In general it's often true ... but its certainly isn't always.

My 2l sport car can easily reach 140mph (I got scared after this and the track was slightly wet.), the top speed of a 4l jeep is ???

My brother has a 4.0l Jaguar (with sport suspension and tuning) ... the top speed is slightly higher but on almost any racing track he would not even get close to my little 2l car. On a WRX rally circuit he couldn't even hope to keep me in sight.

Thus engine size has little to do with finishing a rally circuit more quickly even though generally larger engined cars are faster.

Distillation has a general relationship between molecule size and the distillate BUT it's just a general relationship.

You can't just say the larger molecules will just get left behind, it is not a physical size limit but a limit of the energy taken for a molecule to escape.

At this point the chemistry gets hairy because there is no single energy needed. We say water boils at 212F (100c) at 20C and 14.7psi.

Generally its true.... or more accurately on average its true.

However go to your freezer and take out an ice cube. Its amazing... it boils at 4C... well not all of it but some of it. Indeed some of it will boil at -272.9C and even when its all at 100C some of it still takes longer to boil.

So far we are only talking about 'pure water'.... but if we add salt we find we can freeze water down to 0F. (The definition of 0F) about -32C, adding salt changes the boiling point and freezing point of water.

If we take 'pure' water and 'pure' ethanol and mix them and then distill them we find that the larger molecule (alcohol) comes off first (shock.... size has nothing to do with it) however the alcohol and water actually have an affinity, the -OH from the water H-O-H bonds to the -OOH part of the alcohol. (CH3COOH) again, not rocket science ... that -H-O-H-O-H-O- has a covalent bond.

This means that if we distill till the endpoint we NEVER get 100% alcohol, we will always get about 98% and 2% water.

distilled alcohol can NEVER be pure. This is known as an azeotope. An azeotrope is where one component affects (the SLHV) of another. In effect some water 'clings' to the ethanol.

At school we are taught water freezes at 32F (0c), but its not true, its a generality.

I was also taught at school that whole wheat is good for me... again, it turns out not to be quite true!

Vodka pre-cursor (mash) is not pure water and ethanol. Its a lot of water, some alcohol (10-12%) and lots and lots of other stuff. Other stuff is not even consistent, it depends on the conditions as the yeast never quite do the same thing twice.

All this other stuff works like the mix of ethanol/water. Much of it develops bonds with other parts. One of thse we know occurs is prolamines and ethanol. We know prolamines (like gluten) have an affinity for alcohol. Indeed that is part of the definition of a prolamine.

All of this depends on exact pressure/temperature and what else is in the mix! A small change in one can make a large change in another.

Thus distillation is an inexact method for purifying a complex mix.

If not then whisky, vodka and rum would all taste the same.

Even more subtle, why blend whisky? If each is the same ?? Its because each batch is different. Subtly but still different.

I have worked with many distillations and each complex distillation involving multiple azeotropes the most consistent thing I can say is the results are NEVER consistent.

Heinekin give a honest answer

Heineken is produced from malted barley which by barley's nature contains barley gluten. Traces of gluten can be analysed in beer. There is no maximum limit for beer for "gluten−free". If we apply the limits for food to beer, our beers are far below these limits.

Yet we see on here again and again "Smirnoff is gluten-free" YET Sminoff themselves say only certain products are gluten-free.

Distillation and fermentation are two different processes. Yeast is not involved in distillation. Distillation is a mechanical process where portions of a compound liquid, which have different vapor pressures, migrate through specially prepared tubes of equipment which are set to different temperatures. Only molecules of a particular vapor pressure (and hence, size) can make it through particular portions of the distillation apparatus. (Many chemistry labs in high school and college to distillation experiments, so if you have an old chem textbook, there may be a description in there.)

(1) Actually it is relative vapor pressure, in a multi component distillation there is no such thing as an absolute vapor pressure. (VP would be applicible to boiling the pure liquid only)

(11) College and high school text books are wrong.

(111) The relationship of size to VP(a) is only causal. Gasoline is larger than water .... pour a cup of both and leave them out and the gasoline will have a lower VP(a).

It is generally accepted in North America that caramel color is safe.

As far as I know...

1) According to Heinekin (on this thread) alcoholic beverages are not food. (In the USA) and do not need to day.

11) I am not aware that the Scottish distilleries produce a different product for the USA. (i.e. Use a different caramel color). (They might) this is a hidden gotha (like all maltodextrine is safe) .. it depends on the provenance of the product. If you buy Mario's (making the names up) special antipasta, made on our Tuscan farm then chance is if it contains maltodextrine its from wheat.

I know many people with celiac who drink distilled liquor that has wheat, barley or rye.

Sure and I know many who peel off the cheese, brush off the burger and pick out the croutons.

I also know many here who react to wheat based distilled alcohol, or perhaps they are all lying?

[noucha]

okay so i have read this whole thread from start to finish and am now really really unsure as to whether some vodkas are gluten free and some arent?i tend to only drink vodka and a wide range of brands, but mainly just the plain smirnoff. does anyone actually know?thanks

[Lisa]

okay so i have read this whole thread from start to finish and am now really really unsure as to whether some vodkas are gluten free and some arent?i tend to only drink vodka and a wide range of brands, but mainly just the plain smirnoff. does anyone actually know?thanks

I can't help you make that choice, but I wanted to give you a cheer for making it throught the whole thread.

https://www.celiac.com/articles/222/1/Glute...ages/Page1.html

Somethings, ya just gotta go for it.

[ENF]

okay so i have read this whole thread from start to finish and am now really really unsure as to whether some vodkas are gluten free and some arent?i tend to only drink vodka and a wide range of brands, but mainly just the plain smirnoff. does anyone actually know?thanks

Chopin Vodka is made from potato. It's not hard to find in liquor stores and is considered by vodka experts to be one of the best tasting vodkas in the world. I'm no expert, but it tasted pretty good to me. There is at least one other potato vodka, but I don't remember the name.

Open Original Shared Link

[casnco]

Actually, virtually all distilled liquors are gluten-free, including the ones made from wheat.

Yes, Kahlua is gluten-free

richard

I have heard the same thing. However, when I consume a liquor with a wheat base (which is most of them) I feel sick the next day. (not hang over sick, just sick.) Now this could be another allergy but if I stick to the clears and choose vodka's made of potato or corn I do not have the same problems. So personally I decided to stay safe rather than sorry.

As for Beer. I love Woodbridge, made by Budwiser. The ciders are also very good and gaining in popularity.

Hope this information is helpful!

[Lisa]

I have heard the same thing. However, when I consume a liquor with a wheat base (which is most of them) I feel sick the next day. (not hang over sick, just sick.) Now this could be another allergy but if I stick to the clears and choose vodka's made of potato or corn I do not have the same problems. So personally I decided to stay safe rather than sorry.

As for Beer. I love Woodbridge, made by Budwiser. The ciders are also very good and gaining in popularity.

Hope this information is helpful!

Redbridge is made by Budwiser, and it is their gluten free beer. Several members here do react to grain based alcohol and vinegars. You might be one of the sensitive ones.

[ATC-BS-MS]

I am not sure if I missed someone adding WOODCHUCK to the Gluten free alcohol list. It is listed on the label to be gluten free. I have heard it curbs the beer cravings..but I don't like beer, so I wouldn't know.

Good luck to everyone

[RadcliffePotter]

I'm currently a sophomore at Rutgers University. My boyfriend/friends and I like to party when we have the opportunity (which isn't that often haha), but here's some of the stuff that I've never had problems with:

1) Southern Comfort (SoCo) - This is really popular at our parties in the form of SoCo and Iced Tea. (As the name implies, you mix iced and Southern Comfort together.) It's a bit tangy but good and it's a great substitute for beer when playing beer pong. As such Whiskeys in general are gluten free.

2) Kahlua Mudslides - I've never had regular Kahlua, but the Mudslides haven't given me a problem. Personally, I think Mudslides need either a little less alcohol or a little less chocolate. As it is, I think that Mudslides taste like overly spiked chocolate milkshakes. (And personally, I would rather just have the chocolate milkshake or just have the alcohol, but not both together.)

3) Seagram's Wine Coolers - They make a fruity berry one. It's very good. For those of you looking specifically for alcohol content, this is NOT the drink for you since they're only 4% alcohol per volume. The berry is delicious, but it just tastes more like highly carbonated fruity soda than anything else. Check the label, some wine coolers are not gluten free, but this one is.

4) Coconut Rum - This is also popular at school for making Malibus. The coconut rum can be taken alone, but most commonly we mix it with Pepsi or Coke. It gives the soda a refreshing twist and isn't too overly "coconut-y". (Personally, I am NOT a coconut fan at all, nor is my boyfriend, but we both very much enjoy a Malibu.)

5) Wine - All wine is made from grapes and as such, it is gluten-free. As to what kind, it's more of a personal preference. I recommend red wine, but it doesn't really matter what you choose.

6) Everclear - This is a high alcohol content that can be bought at 75% and 95% alcohol concentrations. For those of you looking for a drink based solely on getting drunk, this is the one for you. Because of the high alcohol content, Everclear is banned in some states, so you may not be able to find it. Everclear is a neutral grain spirit, meaning that it is distilled from cereal grains. WARNING: I have never had a problem with neutral grain spirits/distilled alcohols. And the littlest things set me off. I think it's just a matter that varies Celiac to Celiac. It's been said that the distillation process somehow breaks down and gluten in the alcohol. Southern Comfort is also a neutral grain spirit and I have never had problems with it.

My advice: if you are going to a party - ASK ahead of time what they'll be serving. My boyfriend and friends are VERY good about letting me know ahead of time. If you want something, but are afraid to try it for the first time, my advice would be to buy a small quantity of it and have a glass or two. If you still feel fine later, it's safe to drink, if not, then you know to steer clear in the future. Hope this helps!

[gfincny]

Hey out there in gluten-free land. My wife has celiac and was diagnosed in Nov 2007 right before Thanksgiving (Let's just say that was not a good year as we were in mourning from what we call death ((gluten)).)

Here's our take on gluten-free alcohol:

Think about this, depending on your sensitivity level (my wife looks at bread and gets sick) if you want to be extremely safe, avoid all distillates that are made from ingredients containing gluten, regardless of what the distiller says. If the facility producing the distillate has say wheat as an ingredient, what's to say that even after distillation some of the fine dust from the wheat drifts through the air into the bottles, thus contaminating the distillate.

With that said, here is what we drink without any issues (and we have checked with the distillers on these products):

Potato Vodkas only:

Luksasova (sp) - it's OK

Chopan - best tasting

Christiana - very good

Prairie - corn (we have a bottle in the freezer but haven't tried it yet)

Rum - all rum is made from Cane Sugar

Jamaica Estates - excellent

Tequila - all tequila is made from agave (similar to aloe vera plants)

Cuervo Gold - nice in margaritas

Cuervo Black - excellent in mojitos

Use Grand Marnier (orange brandy - distilled from grapes) instead of Cointreau or Triple Sec (both from grains)

All hard cider - all are from apples or pears

Woodchuck Cider - Amber, Granny Smith, Dark & Bold, Pear and Raspberry

tastes like crisp apple juice, great alternative to beer

Beer -

New Grist - excellent amber colored, nice crisp finish. Brewed from sorghum, rice, yeast and hops.

Green's Endeavour - dark beer, very very good but expensive. I don't know the ingredients but we can only get it in single pints. Since it is imported from England and is a true Belgium beer it is not approved by the FDA to carry a gluten-free labeling. Their label says: NO WHEAT NO BARLEY, no crustaceans, eggs, fish, peanuts, soya beans, milk, lactose, nuts, celery, mustard, sesame seeds, sulphur dioxide and sulfites (it's a bit of a funny label.)

Redbridge - made by Budweiser. Only drink this beer if you can't find the previous two - it's really bad.

Wine - all wines are gluten-free they are made from grapes.

Hope this helps some of you out who may be recent celiacs. We have done extensive research and have many suggestions for home made recipes, drinks, etc...

Good Luck

[gfincny]

Cuervo Black - excellent in mojitos

Er,... meant to say Jamaica Estates is good in mojitos, not Cuervo Black (that's tequila, good in margaritas on the rocks.)

[RadcliffePotter]

Hey guys, here's some more information for you:

1) DeKyuper Sour Apple Schnapps is gluten free and delicious. For those of you who like fruitier drinks, this is a great option. Some people think it's a little too sour, but personally, I don't think that it's really any more sour than the usual "sour" taste that can come with alcohol.

2) Jagermeister is also gluten free. The flavoring in it comes from anise seeds, so it does taste a bit like licorice. Now, personally, I hate black licorice, but if you mix Jagermeister with Mountain Dew or Sprite, it's good and far less licorice-y, though there is still a licorice after taste.

3) Smirnoff Ices are NOT GLUTEN FREE. Though distilled alcohols are fine for MOST celiac's (and I stress "most" here), the malt base in Smirnoff ices are added in after the distillation, making it NOT gluten free. Smirnoff Ices made in Canada are not made with the final malt mix and thus are gluten free. But Smirnoff Ices in America are NOT gluten free!

Hope this helps!

[candrews]

www.glutenfreedrinks.com is great resource

[candrews]

I just got back from a semester in Ireland and they have hard cider everywhere--gluten free and delicious! I've found some here in the states, not quite the same but still really good. I like wood chuck and magners

[kim:)]

now i am in college and was just recently diagnosed w/ gluten intolerant and was wondering now since no more beers what kind of alcohol other people with this disease drink thanks

YOU DONT HAVE TO DRINK BEER IN COLLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lisa]

YOU DONT HAVE TO DRINK BEER IN COLLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!

No you don't, but when questions are asked here, we try to be helpful and answer them.

The post you quoted was over four years old. Rossi has most likely graduated and off into the world. Bet he figured it out.

[UnhappyCoeliac]

I hit the vodkas and wines, even thought im a guy.

When im out I tend to try strange variations of shots considering most shots i tink are gluten free

[psawyer]

YOU DONT HAVE TO DRINK BEER IN COLLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, you don't. Rum and Coke makes an excellent, gluten-free alternative.

[xavrb20]

Hello folks I got something very nice! i send a message to the diageo company (Johnywalker, captain morgan, etc)

asking for a list of their gluten-free products and here what I receive:

August 19, 2009

Dear Mr. Xavier Racine-B

[Jill89]

Hello folks I got something very nice! i send a message to the diageo company (Johnywalker, captain morgan, etc)

asking for a list of their gluten-free products and here what I receive:

August 19, 2009

Dear Mr. Xavier Racine-B

[GFgirly]

O THANK GOD!

WAIT!!!

not all are safe!

flavored vodkas need some checking up on. I know that all flavored smirnoff vodkas are NOT gluten free.

[oreilly15]

Is Rye Whiskey Gluten Free? Any particular brand that you know of for sure?

[psawyer]

Is Rye Whiskey Gluten Free? Any particular brand that you know of for sure?

Maybe. It depends on a lot of imprecise things.

Rye whiskey is made from a mash that is at least 51 percent rye. Rye is a grain that contains gluten. Whiskey is distilled from the fermented mash.

Does distillation remove the gluten? Depends on who you ask. Most experts agree that the gluten molecule is too large to evaporate, and thus can not possibly make it into the distillate. Others say that fragments of the molecule can, and can cause symptoms in some celiacs.

You must consider the arguments on both sides, and make a decision which is right for you.

For what it is worth, I occasionally drink rye, and other grain alcohols, and have not had any problems.

[larry mac]

Irregardless of distillation reservations (which I don't believe in anyway), all tequilas should be gluten-free. 100% agave tequilas, by law, are made from only agaves, and non 100% agave tequilas (mixtos) are made from 51% agave and 49% cane sugar. Mixtos can contain colorings and flavorings however.

I've never had a problem with any distilled spirits. I guess you could say I've never met a booze I didn't like!

best regards, lm

[larry mac]

Here's an article on distillation from Celiac.com (yes this site) written by a chemist (PhD) with Celiac Disease.

https://www.celiac.com/articles/21886/1/Dis...Free/Page1.html

[K-Dawg]

Hey -- thought I'd chime in. I am fairly new to celiac disease (diagnosed in April 2009) and have been VERY rigid wrt gluten. Consequently, since day 1 I decided to only drink potato vodka and stuck with it until a cuople days ago. (btw - I have always been a vodka lover so it hasn't been so bad drinking only vodka and I've no interest in beer, gluten-free or otherwise).

Anyway, after reviewing the literature on the distillation process I decided to have some grain based vodka a few days ago. 2 hours later I was VERY sick. So I'm back to my potato vodka (Luksusowa) as I'm certain I did not gluten myslef in any other way (but who knows for sure).

KDawg

PS. IF you are a vodka lover, I recommend you stay away from Chopin. EWWWWW. lol (but to each their own)