Nightly Right Quadrant Pain & Itching/tickling - Mostly In Back

[April in KC]

For a couple of months, I have been having right-sided pain at night. It seems a little north of where I think my right kidney would be. It radiates through to the front (upper right quadrant) at times, but is mostly felt in back. Nausea is present, but more like a dull nausea from pain than waves of nausea like you're actually going to throw up. At night, I also get tickles on my right side and find myself scratching my right rib cage at times.

Sometimes it hurts during the daytime, but more so at night. I cannot sleep on my right side anymore because I wake up in pain, but even when I sleep on my left or on my back or stomach, it eventually starts hurting.

I wake up in pain every day and have to let the hot shower water run on my back for a while. After about an hour or so of being up and around, I am much better.

Has anyone else had an experience like this?

Night pain is scary - but there are no night sweats, etc. I have seen a couple of docs for this, and I've been praying about it as well...no answers yet.

My gallbladder tests have been fine....besides, I don't think of night pain as a symptom of gallbladder disease.

Thanks for any thoughts - if no one knows/answers, that's okay. I appreciate the community here.

April

[aprilh]

I was going to say it might be gallbladder pain. Does it ever occur after eating?

Would you say it normally occurs on the right side?

When I was having liver/gallbladder type pains I took Gold Coin Grass and it worked wonders! I highly recommend it.

[trents]

What gallbladder tests have you had done? The basic sonogram often does not reveal the disease because it will only find stones when stones are not the only cause of gallbladder disease, though the most common. Sometimes there are no stones that block the duct but the gallbladder just sort of dies and loses its ability to eject the bile which then just lays in there. Have you had a "HIDA Scan" done? The pain at night could be due to your eating habits or just a body rythem in your own digestive process.

[April in KC]

Thanks, both of you. It is definitely right-sided. More localized to the back side than the front, but I occasionally feel it come through to the front, near the center.

Trent, I've had a PIPIDA scan with CCK (similar to HIDA scan), and ultrasound. They said I have normal ejection fraction. I do notice slightly increased pain after larger meals. The nighttime pain is every night. I do agree with you that it could be something about my body's own normal rhythms that makes it a nightly occurrence.

Gold coin grass? I assume that's some type of herbal formula? I will look into it, thanks. Anything that could help give relief and/or a clue about what's going on is great.

I wonder about kidneys...can you have a disease or infection in one kidney only? I don't have painful or frequent urination. Occasionally I have very cloudy urine...but then the next time will be fine. One of the reasons I wonder about kidney is because of how bad it always is in the morning, when I have a full bladder. if I get up and empty my bladder, I don't get instant relief, but usually I can go back to bed and find that the pain is not so bad in 1/2 hour or so.

[trents]

Could it be something with the right lung or even arthritis in the rib cage?

[irish daveyboy]

For a couple of months, I have been having right-sided pain at night. It seems a little north of where I think my right kidney would be. It radiates through to the front (upper right quadrant) at times, but is mostly felt in back. Nausea is present, but more like a dull nausea from pain than waves of nausea like you're actually going to throw up. At night, I also get tickles on my right side and find myself scratching my right rib cage at times.

Sometimes it hurts during the daytime, but more so at night. I cannot sleep on my right side anymore because I wake up in pain, but even when I sleep on my left or on my back or stomach, it eventually starts hurting.

I wake up in pain every day and have to let the hot shower water run on my back for a while. After about an hour or so of being up and around, I am much better................................

Thanks for any thoughts - if no one knows/answers, that's okay. I appreciate the community here.

April

.

Hi April,

While scouring the various Medical Journals (as I regularly do) I came across something called RPS

(Refered Pain Syndrome) here's an article to read entitled 'Refered Pain can be a pain in the neck'.

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Open Original Shared Link

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And here's a diagram of referred pain sites to related health problems.

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Referred pain diagram Permission has been sought from McGraw-Hill for it's use.

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This may be helpful, if not to you personally, then for others that are trying to treat a pain without sucess.

.

Best Regards,

David

[NoGluGirl]

Dear April,

Regardless of the testing being normal, I will bet anything it is your gallbladder! I was only 20 years old when I had mine removed. My doctor had an abdominal ultrasound done as well as a HIDA scan. Both did not show anything. Upon doing research, I discovered these tests are only about 33 percent accurate at best!

I confronted my doctor with this information, and due to the horrible symptoms, I was finally allowed to see a surgeon. The surgeon said I was a good candidate for surgery due to the symptoms. All of the misery you have is exactly what mine caused. Gallbladder issues are more common in the early morning and late evening hours. I had another doctor before the PCP I just told you about, and she was convinced I was mental, so she completely missed the fact I had a gallstone show up in the abdominal CT when the symptoms increased dramatically. I found out it is the least likely to show gallstones, unless they are low density.

It was a good think I listened to my intuition instead of my parents and doctor, because I found out at my 10-day post-op check-up that my gallbladder was severely inflamed and ready to rupture. Another moron in a labcoat was wrong, what a surprise! Here is something interesting: for some reason, ginger worsens the reflux and heartburn associated with the gallbladder. This is one way to pinpoint it. My cousin also had his gallbladder removed young, and he was stuffed with stones despite tests showing nothing. The thing is, stones can pass before you get diagnostic procedures done.

Sincerely,

NoGluGirl

[April in KC]

David - thanks a million for the helpful diagram and article! I have looked for a diagram like that for a long time. The front and back "liver/gallbladder" spots are just right for what's going on with me.

Also, the "stomach" spot in the center of the back corresponds exactly to a delayed reaction I have any time I eat corn. So even though

I avoid corn, that's helpful, too.

[April in KC]

Thanks for the extra encouragement to consider gallbladder. I did see a surgeon for a second opinion about a month ago, and he did not feel like I was a good candidate for surgery...thought it was not likely to be gallbladder. Things have changed a bit in a month, though, so perhaps my new symptoms will make it clearer.

I have been running a low-grade fever this week (just 99.3) - but I don't know if it's related. I do feel miserable.

[jerseyangel]

April, have you had your liver enzymes checked?

[NoGluGirl]

Dear April,

Since the gallbladder is part of the Hepatobialary System, it makes perfect sense with the pain and discomfort being located in that spot. I actually had a doctor who was head of the Gastroenterology and Hepatology miss my gallbladder! Trust your feelings, and you will not go wrong. What all diagnostics did you have done? Have you had a HIDA scan, abdominal ultrasound, and/or an abdominal CT? Those are the usual tests used. Perhaps an MRI would even be better, considering it sees down to the cellular level.

Have they done bloodwork? Jerseyangel made an excellent suggestion. Liver problems can cause all of this misery as well. Of course, gallbladder issues will cause trouble with the liver. They all are connected.

Another reason it was so difficult to diagnose my gallbladder issues was due to the fact most cases are acute, and not chronic. Chronic cholecystitis is not near as common as a sudden attack leading to surgery. Surgeons will not operate without proof, though. They only operate when there is no other choice, for the most part. Although many guides about gallbladder disease say the attacks occur most frequently after fattening meals, if it is bad enough, it would not matter. I got to the point I got sick from baby food!

Sincerely,

NoGluGirl

[April in KC]

I have had a PIPIDA scan with CCK (same test as HIDA, different radioactive substance), a abdominal/chest/spinal CT scan and abdominal ultrasound. I had a gastro surgeon re-read the CT, and he gave the opinion that he sees no evidence for removing the gallbladder at this time. I am going to try a low-fat diet for a while, and then challenge with fat. Hopefully that will help me understand if it really is GB.

For labs, I know I have had a CBC and CMP, but I'm not sure if that checks liver enzymes. I know they were checked when I was first diagnosed with celiac in early 2007, and they were a little elevated then.

A realization...the fever is still here today...the weather has changed to rainy and cold, and I am suddenly and definitely having a flare of my arthritis. That explains the fever and the general crummy feelings. I can't tell if the right/back pain is arthritis related...it preceded my flare, so I don't think so. I don't know what type of arthritis I have yet. I have mostly felt it in the MCP joints of my right hand, but the last two flares I have felt it in the left hand and both balls of my feet as well. I'm afraid it's rheumatoid arthritis (I'm 36).

Doc I visited yesterday has a theory the right-sided back pain might be a stress fracture in my back because of osteopenia (due to Celiac). I do have low bone density. He's sending me for a nuclear bone scan to try to find a stress fracture that might not have showed up on the spinal CT.

Thanks again, Jersey and NoGluGirl (and the previous posters). I don't have many people I want to share this part of my life with in real life..I try to stay positive. It's nice to have online support.

[debmidge]

For a couple of months, I have been having right-sided pain at night. It seems a little north of where I think my right kidney would be. It radiates through to the front (upper right quadrant) at times, but is mostly felt in back. Nausea is present, but more like a dull nausea from pain than waves of nausea like you're actually going to throw up. At night, I also get tickles on my right side and find myself scratching my right rib cage at times.

Sometimes it hurts during the daytime, but more so at night. I cannot sleep on my right side anymore because I wake up in pain, but even when I sleep on my left or on my back or stomach, it eventually starts hurting.

I wake up in pain every day and have to let the hot shower water run on my back for a while. After about an hour or so of being up and around, I am much better.

Has anyone else had an experience like this?

Night pain is scary - but there are no night sweats, etc. I have seen a couple of docs for this, and I've been praying about it as well...no answers yet.

My gallbladder tests have been fine....besides, I don't think of night pain as a symptom of gallbladder disease.

Thanks for any thoughts - if no one knows/answers, that's okay. I appreciate the community here.

April

April

I am going to go out on limb here and say "gallbladder."

I had gallbladder issue and tests were fine. My gallbladder became diseased (almost like appendix). I had pain at night right front, side and back; then it progressed to nausea and gas and diarrhea. Then no appetitte.

No gastro I went to and I went to 3 of them, knew what to make of it...all wanted to do a colonosocpy first. I went to surgeon, he diagnosed diseased gallbaldder (Chronic cholecystitis) - and I had it removed and surgeon's diagnosis was confirmed by biopsy. I felt better about a month or so after the surgery (it took that long for me to recover (everyone is different). But I was very, very ill before the surgery. This was just last summer (07).

Your "itching" makes me think "digestive" such as liver, pancreas and gallbladder area. Did you have ultrasound, CT Scan, etc. or just HIDA scan? My HIDA and ultrasound did not reveal the problem.

[georgie]

Have you thought of kidney/adrenals ? Its the night time symptoms that make me wonder. Adrenals start to work through the night so that when you wake you have your highest cortisol for the day.

I have also had gall bladder problems that never showed on scans. Eventually ( after about 15 years of scans) they found gall bladder 'sludge' which apparently is worse than stones. Touch wood but the painful probing she did for the scan seemed to fix the problem for me. Or perhaps the pain got better when Dr said 'next time it happens its an op'

[April in KC]

Thanks for the info on adrenals. I have wondered about body processes that change at night.

Well, tomorrow I go for the nuclear bone scan - to see if I have an osteopenia-related fracture in my spine or ribs.

For a few days, I have eaten a pretty low-fat diet to kind of test out the gallbladder theory. But today I've eaten some chocolate, and about 8 hours ago, I ate an Amy's Rice Pasta Mac & Cheese...that has tons of fat...and I am having a "normal" night so far (i.e. no extra pain).

[debmidge]

For a few days, I have eaten a pretty low-fat diet to kind of test out the gallbladder theory. But today I've eaten some chocolate, and about 8 hours ago, I ate an Amy's Rice Pasta Mac & Cheese...that has tons of fat...and I am having a "normal" night so far (i.e. no extra pain).

I was Ok with chocolate and mac & cheese foods - it was the doughnut that got me

[April in KC]

Okay, this past week I had a nuclear bone scan and in-office urinalysis. Right after I gave the urine sample, which was waaaayyy darker than usual, i felt something "stuck" in my back. I felt it for the next hour or so.

The bone scan was absolutely fine...yay. The urinalysis showed ketones, bilirubin and one other thing (waiting for the report tomorrow). The ketones are something my sons & I sometimes get (we're just starting to figure that out and look into the cause...we're not diabetic, but might have ketotic hypoglycemia.)

Score: Osteoporosis 0, Gallbladder 1. Or maybe Liver 1.

I say that because a gallstone in the common bile duct could cause the bilirubin, right? I realize it's likely they'll also want to check a bunch of liver stuff.

They want me to go back tomorrow a.m.

At this point, I feel the need to keep this post updated in case someone has similar symptoms in the future. It seems like the symptoms are finally pointing a direction, at least.

[NoGluGirl]

Dear April,

I am glad you are getting testing done. It revealed something. That is a start! The pain in your back when you did the urine analysis could be from the kidneys. Bilirubin is definitely related to the liver and gallbladder. A stone in your bile duct is extremely painful.

Small stones are actually more dangerous than the larger ones. This is due to the fact they can block the bile duct. Measuring bialary acid levels may be a good idea. Dark urine can indicate liver or kidney issues. Another possibility is heavy metal poisoning. If you have metal fillings in your teeth, that can result in such symptoms.

Adrenals were an excellent suggestion made by other posters. They are located right above the kidneys, and can cause all kinds of symptoms when they do not work properly. Mine are likely completely exhausted. I may have Lyme Disease, and hormone systems are often victims of it. We all need new bodies!

Sincerely,

NoGluGirl

P.S. Keep us posted as you find out more! We will be anxious to hear!

[debmidge]

Okay, this past week I had a nuclear bone scan and in-office urinalysis. Right after I gave the urine sample, which was waaaayyy darker than usual, i felt something "stuck" in my back. I felt it for the next hour or so.

The bone scan was absolutely fine...yay. The urinalysis showed ketones, bilirubin and one other thing (waiting for the report tomorrow). The ketones are something my sons & I sometimes get (we're just starting to figure that out and look into the cause...we're not diabetic, but might have ketotic hypoglycemia.)

Score: Osteoporosis 0, Gallbladder 1. Or maybe Liver 1.

I say that because a gallstone in the common bile duct could cause the bilirubin, right? I realize it's likely they'll also want to check a bunch of liver stuff.

They want me to go back tomorrow a.m.

At this point, I feel the need to keep this post updated in case someone has similar symptoms in the future. It seems like the symptoms are finally pointing a direction, at least.

You're "spilling" biblrubin....hate to ask, but is your poop color very light?

Yes a blockage does cause bilirubin to "spill" into urine. Bilirubin is also meansured by blood

tests....what did they show? Always ask for a copy of your blood test results in case you

have to change doctors, etc.

When I was ill w/gallbaldder, towards the end, my liver enzymes went over the "normal" level.

[April in KC]

Thanks again. I had another urinalysis done in the office today. The bilirubin, ketones and protein were gone this time, but today there was blood. (Not enough so that I could see...just something detected on the UA...and no it's not that time of month). Urine creatinine was also elevated, but I dont' know what that might mean.

My fever is still here...usually 99.0 - 99.6 each day- now for 3+ weeks. I feel ttiirreeddd, too, but I'm never sure when it's because I ate something that made me tired. Last night I made some baked beans (ingreds. listed rice flour) and added plain roast beef, plain turkey and a few chili seasonings...garlic powder, cumin and chili powder......but something in all that gave me a headache, so being tired today does not surprise me. I know I'm due for another elmination diet... I can eat beef and turkey without headaches, so I think it's one of the other ingredients.

Tomorrow I get a repeat abdominal U/S (looking for stones) - and some additional labs. Doc is looking into some autoimmune stuff this time, too, like ANA and rheumatoid factor. I had an arthritis flare recently, and also the recurrence of a nose sore that I've had a few times before...so she thinks these plus the fever might point to something autoimmune.

I ordered some urinalysis strips for use at home so I can keep a closer eye on what's happening.

I have three young boys, ages 7, 4 and 2. I really need to get better soon!

[wandr]

Hey April,

I signed up just to reply to your post! IT IS LIVER!!! I have celiac. I have had gallbladder problems, have had it removed. I have liver disease. Sclerosing cholangitis. But all of your symptoms, especially the itching, the area of pain, and the lab so far all are liver. Please make the doctors run a liver panel when you go again!