So Exasperated With Lazy People...

[MitziG]

Who would rather just keep swallowing pills and suffering than even consider changing their diet!

My dear friend, with her own slew of health issues just can't fathom putting her kids on Gluten-free Casein-free diet to see if it helps their ADHD, depression, eczema, bedwetting and constant overwhelming fatigue. Because "that is all they eat is gluten and dairy. I just couldn't do that to them. And its too expensive. We are really broke." Argh. The whole house if filled with crap, they eat out constantly and spend a fortune doing so. And she tells me tonight that since the Vyvanse isn't really helping the 10 yr old that she wants to switch her to an antidepressant instead! I have talked a blue streak to this woman. I have given her countless websites and printed info. I love her to death. But I want to beat her with a stupid stick some days....

[shadowicewolf]

Who's to say that will help them? Unless, of course, they have the need to be on such a diet (i don't see what cutting dairy out of it will do but oh well).

[MitziG]

But wouldn't you think it would be worth a TRY? Before giving a 10 yr old antidepressants that will PERMANENTLY alter her brain chemistry?

[MitziG]

And if you don't know "what cutting dairy out will do"...well I have to ask,"what rock have you been hiding under?!" Gluten and casein are the two most inflammatory foods there are, and are responsible for a myriad of health issues, for more people than just celiacs!

[shadowicewolf]

There is no reason to cut something out unless there is a medical need. I am aware of what some foods can do. There is no reason to be so agressive about it.

[MitziG]

When gluten and casein have been clearly shown to be responsible for the very medical issues these children have, then it would seem logical to me to see if a dietary change might provide relief, BEFORE resorting to powerful, dangerous drugs that can have permanent side effects. But hey, to each his own, right?

[Adalaide]

I have a double sided view on this.

First, I agree that it is a great idea to explore the option that a simple change in diet could change the need for so many of the pharmaceutical drugs being pushed on us. But, even with a diet change this will not actually eliminate the need for medications for diseases such as depression and ADHD or many other medical conditions. For instance, as a sufferer of fibromylagia, being gluten free hasn't changed the fact that I spend every moment of every day in pain. I simply have made a choice that the drugs don't help enough to be worth the side effects and money but for others they are.

Second, no diet will eliminate the need for proper medical care by a licensed physician. Everyone should have regular check-ups. The difference is that today we have the option to go to our doctor educated and aware and to make joint decisions about our health care instead of just doing what we are told. If it is suspected that a special diet could help, this is something that it would be helpful to discuss with a doctor and nutritionist before beginning, especially because it is children. It is important that their mother be educated on how to meet all of their dietary needs if she were to make changes.

Lastly, I'm going to say something that I hope you can see from her side. If you are coming off to her the way you are coming off here, you are putting her off greatly. I know this is something we are all quite passionate about, but that needs to be tempered. You come off as a bit militant about it and frankly as a mother myself I would tell even my best friend to mind her own damn business when it comes to how I handle my kids health. My best friend has a child with many issues and I let her talk to me and offer only solicited advice. It is not my place to go around telling someone else how to raise her children.

[shadowicewolf]

When gluten and casein have been clearly shown to be responsible for the very medical issues these children have, then it would seem logical to me to see if a dietary change might provide relief, BEFORE resorting to powerful, dangerous drugs that can have permanent side effects. But hey, to each his own, right?

ugh, i really really do not want to debate the whole medication thing. But here is my point on it; not everything works for everyone. I was on ADHD meds for two years and it did NOTHING but turn me into a zombie. I am not an advocate of medication, nor am i of a massive diet change that may, or may not, help. Rather, I would like to see children in this situation tought how to cope with their issues. If they cannot be tought such things (and yes, it can be done), then i would persue what you reccomend.

I have a double sided view on this.

First, I agree that it is a great idea to explore the option that a simple change in diet could change the need for so many of the pharmaceutical drugs being pushed on us. But, even with a diet change this will not actually eliminate the need for medications for diseases such as depression and ADHD or many other medical conditions. For instance, as a sufferer of fibromylagia, being gluten free hasn't changed the fact that I spend every moment of every day in pain. I simply have made a choice that the drugs don't help enough to be worth the side effects and money but for others they are.

Second, no diet will eliminate the need for proper medical care by a licensed physician. Everyone should have regular check-ups. The difference is that today we have the option to go to our doctor educated and aware and to make joint decisions about our health care instead of just doing what we are told. If it is suspected that a special diet could help, this is something that it would be helpful to discuss with a doctor and nutritionist before beginning, especially because it is children. It is important that their mother be educated on how to meet all of their dietary needs if she were to make changes.

Lastly, I'm going to say something that I hope you can see from her side. If you are coming off to her the way you are coming off here, you are putting her off greatly. I know this is something we are all quite passionate about, but that needs to be tempered. You come off as a bit militant about it and frankly as a mother myself I would tell even my best friend to mind her own damn business when it comes to how I handle my kids health. My best friend has a child with many issues and I let her talk to me and offer only solicited advice. It is not my place to go around telling someone else how to raise her children.

I'm agreeing fully with this.

[MitziG]

Oh I'm a bit of a crank tonight. Sorry. I really have made an effort to be more laidback with her. The issue is that she comes to me and ASKS for advice, crying and frustrated...but if that advice involves real effort- well forget it. The whole family is morbidly obese, and she has been trying so hard to lose weight with exercise and cutting calories...and has little success.

The thing is, I spent years on Adderall...and the problem was gluen. My son was suicidally depressed at AGE SIX....was put on zoloft, went to every dr and therapist and quack healer I could find....desperate to help him, NOTHING DID. Being dx celiac was the first step in the right direction, going gluten-free helped some...but ditching casein completely changed him. He is a happy, healthy 9 yr old now. And she saw this. She saw MY frustration at trying to save my kid. She saw my desperation. We lamented together. And he got better. I think her kids could too...but she won't try.

I'm not anti-meds. They saved my life. I still have to take antidepressants, albeit less than before being gluten-free. But in a child....there is a reason that their little brain is malfunctioning. And it may very well be food. And it frustrates me that she won't even make the effort to find out because I love these children like my own.

Anyway, I am sorry I am so crabby. Its been a really long rough day. Shadow, please accept my apologies for being a bit snarky.

[ravenwoodglass]

Who would rather just keep swallowing pills and suffering than even consider changing their diet!

My dear friend, with her own slew of health issues just can't fathom putting her kids on Gluten-free Casein-free diet to see if it helps their ADHD, depression, eczema, bedwetting and constant overwhelming fatigue. Because "that is all they eat is gluten and dairy. I just couldn't do that to them. And its too expensive. We are really broke." Argh. The whole house if filled with crap, they eat out constantly and spend a fortune doing so. And she tells me tonight that since the Vyvanse isn't really helping the 10 yr old that she wants to switch her to an antidepressant instead! I have talked a blue streak to this woman. I have given her countless websites and printed info. I love her to death. But I want to beat her with a stupid stick some days....

There is a slew of research showing a link between things like ADHD, depression, fatigue and skin issues in us that resolve once we are diagnosed. While celiac is not always the reason it would be good if she would agree to test not only the kids but also herself. Have you tried encouraging her just to get testing done? If she is a close freind perhaps she might be open to that rather than just telling her to try the diet with them. There will come a day, hopefully soon, when testing for celiac will be as routine here as it is in some other countries. I do understand your frustration but all we can do is give people information and hope they act on it.

[IrishHeart]

I find myself in the same situation as you, Mitzi.

I offered my advice to a Mom about trying a gluten-free/DF diet with less processed sugary foods for her girls, (but only because she ASKED me and cried to me about their behavior repeatedly).

I had witnessed the way these sweet kiddos bounced off walls and became cranky and wild and sent to their rooms after eating whoopie pies and ice cream for their after school snack. She reported that the oldest was wide awake half the night, agitated and unable to sleep and still wetting the bed at age 11. This beautiful girl was pulling her own eyelashes out!!! The pediatrician suggested a therapist, but the child hated going to her and the Mom felt there was some shame in her having to go to one.

I thought maybe if she just tried less junk food that maybe she would see a difference in the agitation levels. She rejected it.

I did not even get to the part about gluten because at the time, I was as yet UnDXed myself and had no idea what gluten and dairy could do to someone.

Then, she called me "judgmental" ---and has not spoken to me since.

I would not mind so much except those children are like my own granddaughters (they even called me Gramma) and I miss them very much. I see that they all have anxiety, insomnia, depression, anger outbursts, GI problems, joint and muscle pain, etc. (the Mom especially) and there is nothing I can do or say at this point to convince them to even try a dietary change before it is too late and they are all medicated.

Are medications sometimes necessary? Absolutely.

But research shows that ADD, depression, anxiety, insomnia ARE gluten-related issues and if they can be resolved with a dietary change, then hallelujiah!

I watched a friend's son undergo a remarkable change in his autistic tendencies, raging insomnia, inability to put on weight, and muscle weakness just from removing gluten and dairy (and they had tried everything for 30 years). He can look people in the eye now. He feels great and has confidence! She calls it a miracle.

When someone like me experiences anxiety, depression, insomnia, etc. because of gluten and celiac ---and then sees it all resolve once that is removed--- I do not see why just trying a gluten-free/DF diet is such a big deal.

I was given dozens of meds by doctors who wanted to placate me and get me out of their offices. I do not have mental health problems (so I am told) nor do I need those drugs. I needed to resolve nutritional deficiencies from the celiac. Gluten is a neurotoxin and if just trialing a gluten-free diet shows a dramatic improvement in someone's health, then it seems like an easy and safe solution.

A gluten-free diet, rich in gluten-free whole grains, fruits, vegetables and protein, is not "dangerous" or nutritionally deficient in any way.

The thing is? No one wants to hear about changing their diets. They view it as too much work.

Once you suggest it to someone, it is best to just let it go.

Just my humble opinion.

[MitziG]

Ravenwood- Yes, I did try to have her test them, and she agreed. She called the clinic, requested a celiac test, and took the girls in. And while there, the doctor told her that there weren't any blood tests for Celiac but he would run a thorough workup and if something were wrong it would show up. Argh...you know the rest of the story. They are on a low income med plan and have to go to the Community Clinic, where clearly the doctors know nothing. However, there is a walk in lab that does celiac testing an hour from here- for $25. Granted, it isnt a full panel, just TTG, but still...better than nothing! And I have tried so many times to get her there, even offered to pay the $25 and drive her myself- but she always has some excuse why she cant go. Alot of the problem is her husband, who pooh-poohs everything I tell her. If I make headway with her, he quickly undoes it. Mainly because he is pre-diabetic with high blood pressure and high cholesterol and prefers to take pills than have her mess with what he eats. She has tried, she really has. She just doesn't get that you have to change WHAT you eat, not just how much you eat.

Irish...I appreciate the empathy. And I know you are right. I just need to shut up and accept that it isnt happening. But so, so frustrating....

[Gemini]

I have a double sided view on this.

First, I agree that it is a great idea to explore the option that a simple change in diet could change the need for so many of the pharmaceutical drugs being pushed on us. But, even with a diet change this will not actually eliminate the need for medications for diseases such as depression and ADHD or many other medical conditions. For instance, as a sufferer of fibromylagia, being gluten free hasn't changed the fact that I spend every moment of every day in pain. I simply have made a choice that the drugs don't help enough to be worth the side effects and money but for others they are.

Second, no diet will eliminate the need for proper medical care by a licensed physician. Everyone should have regular check-ups. The difference is that today we have the option to go to our doctor educated and aware and to make joint decisions about our health care instead of just doing what we are told. If it is suspected that a special diet could help, this is something that it would be helpful to discuss with a doctor and nutritionist before beginning, especially because it is children. It is important that their mother be educated on how to meet all of their dietary needs if she were to make changes.

Lastly, I'm going to say something that I hope you can see from her side. If you are coming off to her the way you are coming off here, you are putting her off greatly. I know this is something we are all quite passionate about, but that needs to be tempered. You come off as a bit militant about it and frankly as a mother myself I would tell even my best friend to mind her own damn business when it comes to how I handle my kids health. My best friend has a child with many issues and I let her talk to me and offer only solicited advice. It is not my place to go around telling someone else how to raise her children.

While I do agree with some of what you write, I have to sound off, respectfully, about something that really irks me with Americans today. I am not really sure when this happened but Americans go to doctors WAY too much these days. We are doctor obsessed and I just don't get it. I am 53 and when I was a kid, you didn't go running off to doctors for a check-up every year. Kids are supposed to be healthy and all I have seen over the years is a degeneration of kids health and yes, the American diet is mostly to blame but doctors are med pushers. It is disgraceful and disgusting to me how many meds kids take and most of their health issues most likely come from food and a complete lack of exercise. It was rarer than hens teeth to see a kid with asthma or diabetes when I was in grade school but we all ate healthier foods. You ate a home cooked, family dinner at the table, and you ate what was given to you and not what the kid wanted. We were told to eat our veggies or go to bed without food. Never killed any of us.

I watch people today obsess over every number on a test and they go to doctors all the time and yet, their problems aren't well managed. They take a boatload of meds and worry constantly they will pop with cancer or something because of all the crap that's pushed on them by the medical control people.

I find going to the doctor very stressful today because I manage my own issues and am doing better than everyone I know who doesn't have Celiac. I know when I need to seek professional help and that isn't very often. The recommendations for check-ups are every 1-3 years and I go every 3 because I am not putting up with doctor BS every year. They practice defensive medicine in this country and that is not good for people as they end up with having way too many tests that aren't all needed. Yet I see a lot of paranoia in the general population so they constantly go to a doctor, looking for that magic bullet that will solve all their problems when it really comes down to diet and exercise. It is sorely lacking today.

I agree you cannot nag people about their diet or their kid's diets but it is hard to see so many parents doing such a bad job with their kids. They feed them crap and then wonder why they are falling apart! I mean, everyone complains about smoking costing us a fortune but I would venture to guess sick kids and adults cost as much, if not more. As long as Americans expect cheap food, they will get what they pay for.

[bartfull]

Mitzi, I think youhave her pegged right. If they eat out a lot, she probably doesn't want to even THINK about celiac because then she would have to start cooking.

When I see how some of the parents on this board have left no stone unturned in the quest to see their child well, and then I hear about parents like this, it makes me sad that their parents aren't more like the ones here. Poor kids. When they get older and sicker, maybe they will investigate for themselves, but by then they will have suffered so much damage, and all because their Mom doesn't feel like cooking!

[shadowicewolf]

Its easy to assume that everyone can cook a meal every night or what have you (just pointing it out). But there are some cases when that just cannot be done. A part of my childhood was spent living off of tv dinners because we did not have a functioning stove at the time (we did have a lot of salads and whatnot to balance it out). This, of course, changed once we had it fixed (took a few weeks i think?).

At this point in time, i think its better not to jump the gun and judge someone if they do not know the whole situation (does the mother work? for example).

[MitziG]

No, she doesn't work. And she has a lovely stove that works fine. And she does cook dinner every night. But they eat out for lunch almost every day, fast food. And they buy donuts for breakfast and order pizza a lot...and she bakes cakes and pies all week long.

Hubs loves his junk food. She will try to make a healthy meal and he will order pizza, or bring home donuts. Total sabotage. And she is just not someone who stands up for herself or takes charge of a situation. She just gives in and makes what they want. And then complains about how sick and tired they all are.

[Gemini]

Its easy to assume that everyone can cook a meal every night or what have you (just pointing it out). But there are some cases when that just cannot be done. A part of my childhood was spent living off of tv dinners because we did not have a functioning stove at the time (we did have a lot of salads and whatnot to balance it out). This, of course, changed once we had it fixed (took a few weeks i think?).

At this point in time, i think its better not to jump the gun and judge someone if they do not know the whole situation (does the mother work? for example).

I think this is a bit of a stretch here. How many people actually have a non-functioning oven that lasts more than a couple of weeks? There are salads, like you mentioned, and the good old charcoal grill, if things are tight. Plus, people have more resources to get help nowadays...this isn't the Great Depression.

I also do not accept the excuse that a person works full time and doesn't have time to cook. If that's the case, you shouldn't have kids. This is job for responsible people and if you sign up to have kids, then you need to take care of them and a home cooked meal is first on the list of important things to do....almost every day. This is what the OP was talking about...all we hear are excuses. Pizza and fast food are supposed to be treats...occasional treats and not the norm.

To the OP...I hear what you say. My sister has 3 step children and if they aren't poster kids for a gluten problem, I'll eat my keyboard. Yet, no one will address it. The kids are all on meds for ADD or whatever the hell they call it now. I do not think of it as anything else but a food issue that is not being addressed. These kids live on pasta, pasta and more pasta. They are all young adults now so my sister does not have to deal with it like she used to. They also have other medical problems that no young adult should have...migraines, learning disabilities...all brain related stuff that we Celiacs know are food related. Honestly, in my 20's I never saw other people my age suffering from all this stuff but we ate differently back then and we weren't all running off to the doctors all the time. If you go to a doctor often enough, they'll find something wrong and get you right on meds. It is such a shame and people's lives are being severely affected. I have seen miracles, including myself, happen when you change the way you eat so no one is ever going to convince me otherwise. And I am in no way trying to offend anyone, I am just speaking reality but no one wants to hear what they have to do because it is work.

[Gemini]

No, she doesn't work. And she has a lovely stove that works fine. And she does cook dinner every night. But they eat out for lunch almost every day, fast food. And they buy donuts for breakfast and order pizza a lot...and she bakes cakes and pies all week long.

Hubs loves his junk food. She will try to make a healthy meal and he will order pizza, or bring home donuts. Total sabotage. And she is just not someone who stands up for herself or takes charge of a situation. She just gives in and makes what they want. And then complains about how sick and tired they all are.

This sounds so familiar....there is always a saboteur in every family! It happens with people trying to quit smoking.

There are those who will try and mess with others to keep them smoking....just like food!

[ravenwoodglass]

Mitzi, I think youhave her pegged right. If they eat out a lot, she probably doesn't want to even THINK about celiac because then she would have to start cooking.

When I see how some of the parents on this board have left no stone unturned in the quest to see their child well, and then I hear about parents like this, it makes me sad that their parents aren't more like the ones here. Poor kids. When they get older and sicker, maybe they will investigate for themselves, but by then they will have suffered so much damage, and all because their Mom doesn't feel like cooking!

There is also the possibility that Mom herself is an undiagnosed celiac and just doesn't have the energy at the end of the day to do much other than go with what is quick and easy and what the family is demanding. There are times when the poor diet leads to feeling unwell and unable to cope with just day to day existance and it ends up being a vicious circle.

[mushroom]

Sounds to me like a case of her not standing up to her husband. She certainly doesn't sound lazy if she bakes cakes and pies all week long. Some men are so dominant it takes a bit to stand up to them and women end up being the peacekeepers in the family quite often to their detriment.

[IrishHeart]

No, she doesn't work. And she has a lovely stove that works fine. And she does cook dinner every night. And they buy donuts for breakfast and order pizza a lot...and she bakes cakes and pies all week long.

hubs loves his junk food. She will try to make a healthy meal and he will order pizza, or bring home donuts. Total sabotage. And she is just not someone who stands up for herself or takes charge of a situation. She just gives in and makes what they want. And then complains about how sick and tired they all are.

This is EXACTLY the situation I cited for you earlier in the thread.

Exactly. And the weekends are full of them running to sporting events and she does not cook on weekends--- it's going to fast food places, diners and takeouts. The cupboards are full of junk foods. And they are always sick and tired.

In this instance, I thought it was sheer laziness because the person I am talking about has all day long to cook and I even taught her how to cook a few things, for pete's sake.... and anyone who can read a recipe can learn to cook!!!

but as Raven says

There is also the possibility that Mom herself is an undiagnosed celiac and just doesn't have the energy at the end of the day to do much other than go with what is quick and easy and what the family is demanding. There are times when the poor diet leads to feeling unwell and unable to cope with just day to day existance and it ends up being a vicious circle.

and this is what I firmly believe is going on.

But that idea went over like a lead balloon.

[MitziG]

Yes, I think there is a good possibility she is celiac. I have tried to get her tested as well, to no avail. She is horribly fatigued, depressed, always sick to her stomach, has asthma and I suspect thyroid issues. So frustrating when you know something so simple might fix all of that!