are you going to take the vaccine

[DJFL77I]

for covid19

[Scott Adams]

Yes, for sure. By the time my family and I have access I would guess that 100M people would have already been given it. I'm ready to go back to normal, and travel, eat out, etc.

[RMJ]

Absolutely, I will take it as soon as they’ll give it to healthy 65-year olds. I would not take it if I had ever had an allergic reaction to a vaccine until more is known about the allergic reactions seen in the UK. 

I have a PhD in pharmacology and have been following this whole subject very closely.  I’ve read the FDA guidance and skimmed the Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca clinical trial protocols.  I listened to most of the Vaccine Advisory Committee meeting yesterday.  

Development has proceeded rapidly, but mostly because some things were done in parallel instead of sequentially. This can be a business risk (spend money on something that might not work) but isn’t a safety risk. Also the vaccines were given high priority within companies and at the FDA.  

All of the normal manufacturing and quality requirements have been met - no short cuts have been allowed there.

The main things that haven’t been done involve the clinical trials.

• Length of safety followup in clinical trial.  However, most adverse events due to vaccines are within the first 6 weeks post-vaccination and FDA required followup for two months.
• Length of efficacy followup - how long will it protect against COVID. I see the worst case due to this being another shot in X months.
• Evaluation in pregnant women.
• Evaluation in children. This will happen, it is typical to test drugs/vaccines in adults first.
• Evaluation as to whether it prevents transmission - i.e. can someone still get COVID with no symptoms and pass it on. Pfizer is planning on looking at this. If enough people get vaccinated this wouldn’t even matter.

FDA has been exceptionally transparent on all of this, far more so than the UK regulatory authorities.

 

 

 

[Scott Adams]

Wow @RMJ, a PhD in pharmacology! You've probably mentioned it before, and I seem aloof, but bravo, and why did I not know (or remember) this?

[RMJ]

3 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

Wow @RMJ, a PhD in pharmacology! You've probably mentioned it before, and I seem aloof, but bravo, and why did I not know (or remember) this?

You didn’t forget, I hadn’t mentioned it before. But it does explain why my posts tend to be technical!

[Kate333]

@RMJ, do you know: 1) whether people with celiac disease were specifically included in any of those trials? and 2) whether any CV vaccine includes gluten contents (not just eggs or other commonly used vaccine ingredients)?  In response to Q 1, if the answer is yes, were the trial results any different than those observed without celiac disease?  If no, are there any plans to include celiac disease patients in future CV trials?

Also, I read somewhere that people with celiac disease (and other AI diseases) did not respond to vaccines in general (the flu vaccine for example) as well, efficiently as those without those problems due to compromised immune systems.  Thus, they had to be vaccinated multiple times before a strong immunity response would kick in.  If that's so, I can imagine that folks with celiac disease would have to get more than 2 vaccines to be protected from CV?

Don't get me wrong, I am VERY AWED AND GRATEFUL that these vaccines have been developed and are being rolled out in record time!  I just would like to learn a bit more about their safety, effects on people with gluten-compromised digestive systems before I would feel safe and confident about rolling up my sleeve.  I am still in the early stages of healing and still have GI issues.  That said, I got my regular flu shots the last few years without any side effects....so I am hopeful the CV vaccine would be no different.   

[RMJ]

1. People with celiac disease were not excluded from the trials, so with 18,000 vaccine recipients there were likely some with celiac disease.  However, efficacy for them was not separated out. I doubt that they will be studied specifically by the vaccine sponsors.  There are so many different diseases that people might have that they can’t look at every one. Perhaps they would eventually be studied by celiac researchers.

2.  No gluten ingredients. Just mRNA, some salts, and some lipids (fats). The source of the lipids is not listed, but based on their chemical names I’d guess they are highly purified. It would be very unusual for an injectable drug to contain gluten or wheat. 

There were slightly more gastrointestinal side effects in the vaccine group than in the placebo group, but the percentages were very low (a few percent) in each group.

I’ll need to read up on the response of people with AI diseases to vaccines. I do know that there can be vaccination issues for people with other AI diseases where the people are taking strong immunosuppressants. Luckily that is not us!

[DJFL77I]

I am no guinea pig for their vaccines

[icelandgirl]

RMJ, thank you so much for your insights...so much knowledge!

I do plan to take it when it becomes available to me...I'm about to turn 50 so I think it will still be a bit, but a yes from me!

[Scott Adams]

Whether we like it or not I doubt that any of us would be able to get access and take this vaccine anytime during the next 90 days, which means that by the time we get it tens of millions of people will have likely been given the vaccine. On one had it's not great to have to wait and risk getting covid-19, on the other hand we should learn of all of its risks before we take it.

[Posterboy]

RMJ et Al,

This is a fascinating topic and so timely! Thank you DJFL for starting it.

Here is what I find confounding about this topic....

If understand it right....even a "Vaccinated" person for COVID-19....can still be an "active spreader".....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

quoting from the NYT article...

"If vaccinated people are silent spreaders of the virus, they may keep it circulating in their communities, putting unvaccinated people at risk."

Why is no one talking about this?

Or this new research that indicates we have a therapeutic drug that has recently been shown to "Shut down" spread of the COVID-19 virus...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/monulparivir-the-drug-that-completely-stops-the-spread-of-coronavirus-in-24-hours/ar-BB1bFDTw

It seems like at least....this should be studied/promoted as much as the Vaccine....if it makes Vaccinated people active carries of the Virus?

Isn't the point of a Vaccine, at least in part, to stop the virus from spreading in the first place?

Also for other lay people who want to study about how this vaccine was developed so fast...using the new technology of mRna this article is fascinating.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/covid-19-vaccines-the-new-technology-that-made-them-possible/ar-BB1bR8wh?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

[RMJ]

23 hours ago, Kate333 said:

 

Also, I read somewhere that people with celiac disease (and other AI diseases) did not respond to vaccines in general (the flu vaccine for example) as well, efficiently as those without those problems due to compromised immune systems.  Thus, they had to be vaccinated multiple times before a strong immunity response would kick in.  If that's so, I can imagine that folks with celiac disease would have to get more than 2 vaccines to be protected from CV?

 

I found a recent review article in a peer-reviewed journal discussing this subject. The only vaccine where there was a definite issue was the Hepatitis B vaccine. The other vaccines they reviewed seemed to work fine in celiac patients.

Vaccinations and immune response in celiac disease

[RMJ]

17 minutes ago, Posterboy said:

RMJ et Al,

This is a fascinating topic and so timely! Thank you DJFL for starting it.

Here is what I find confounding about this topic....

If understand it right....even a "Vaccinated" person for COVID-19....can still be an "active spreader".....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

quoting from the NYT article...

"If vaccinated people are silent spreaders of the virus, they may keep it circulating in their communities, putting unvaccinated people at risk."

Why is no one talking about this?

It has not been proven one way or the other that vaccinated people can still spread the virus.  It is a possibility that has not yet been fully studied. People are talking about it. It was discussed at the FDA advisory committee meeting. Pfizer plans to study it, I think Moderna is looking at it in their current trial.

However, if everyone was vaccinated with a vaccine with 95% efficacy in terms of preventing symptoms, it wouldn’t matter too much if people were spreading an asymptomatic disease.

[RMJ]

32 minutes ago, Posterboy said:

Why is no one talking about this?

Or this new research that indicates we have a therapeutic drug that has recently been shown to "Shut down" spread of the COVID-19 virus...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/monulparivir-the-drug-that-completely-stops-the-spread-of-coronavirus-in-24-hours/ar-BB1bFDTw

It seems like at least....this should be studied/promoted as much as the Vaccine....if it makes Vaccinated people active carries of the Virus?

Isn't the point of a Vaccine, at least in part, to stop the virus from spreading in the first place?

There are two ongoing phase 2/3 clinical trials that started in October.  Preliminary results expected in May. 

Molnupiravir clinical trials

[Misslee]

Never, since its a vaccine that made me have coeliac in the first place.

Watch Dr bergs on youtube about autoimmune disease. I had no idea but it makes sense I had a vaccine 6 months prior getting celiac. 

 

I had vaccines when I was a kid and I was fine but I wont gamble with my health. 

[Misslee]

In summer 2012 same happened, I had to travel and got a vaccine in august well I just figured now 8 years later how I got eczema I never had eczemza before that vaccine. The eczema started december 2012. 

I wasnt against vaccine until I figured it all thanks to Dr Berg.

[DJFL77I]

36 minutes ago, Misslee said:

Never, since its a vaccine that made me have coeliac in the first place.

vaccines don't give you Celiac..

 

No research has substantiated the idea that vaccines can cause or contribute to celiac or to other autoimmune diseases. In addition, one study is reassuring: it appears that young children who get their regular shots on time are not at an increased risk for celiac disease.

 

[Misslee]

20 hours ago, DJFL77I said:

vaccines don't give you Celiac..

 

No research has substantiated the idea that vaccines can cause or contribute to celiac or to other autoimmune diseases. In addition, one study is reassuring: it appears that young children who get their regular shots on time are not at an increased risk for celiac disease.

 

Dr berg got this from scientifical researchs. Just because some say it's not related it doesn't mean it hasn't been proven somewhere outside of the US. The book he read from says these studies were made up of researches done outside of the US. the US isn't the world.

And TBH getting sick with too problems within 6 months after 2 vaccines each time is enough proof for me.Some say it is genetics well that is a joke cause there are no auto immune disease at all in my family history it isn't even heard of. That's an easy way to omit truth from the public.

 

 

[Scott Adams]

20 hours ago, Misslee said:

Never, since its a vaccine that made me have coeliac in the first place.

Watch Dr bergs on youtube about autoimmune disease. I had no idea but it makes sense I had a vaccine 6 months prior getting celiac. 

 

I had vaccines when I was a kid and I was fine but I wont gamble with my health. 

I don't believe that a vaccine gave you celiac disease, and there is no scientific evidence that vaccines cause any autoimmune disease, including celiac disease. If you make a claim like this you need to back it up with evidence. Sorry but Dr. Berg's video doesn't cut it. Besides a possible coincidence in the timing of you getting a vaccine and celiac disease, what evidence do you have that a vaccine gave you celiac disease?

[Misslee]

16 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

I don't believe that a vaccine gave you celiac disease, and there is no scientific evidence that vaccines cause any autoimmune disease, including celiac disease. If you make a claim like this you need to back it up with evidence. Sorry but Dr. Berg's video doesn't cut it. Besides a possible coincidence in the timing of you getting a vaccine and celiac disease, what evidence do you have that a vaccine gave you celiac disease?

Dr berg isn't the one that has done the research on the link I posted you can see what the book he's reading from is if you feel like reading since it seems you don't even read but resort to the old vaccines dont do any harm type of thing.

My testimony and the testimonies of other people is proof enough anyway for me. His video just made me figure out as I never thought vaccines could do that. I was never anti vaccines and I regret it.

There is a well known controversy around aluminium in vaccines which I've heard years ago already anyway.

You can't say where my disease is from but to pretend it is genetics than to admit the probability of getting two diseases within 6 months after getting vaccine shots is kinda odd.

I'm not here to convince anyone.

I'm very glad to finally Know where my diseases are from.

My family history is that we are very healthy people we have no diabetes no heart issues no auto immune diseases no eczema nothing. I'm the only one with two diseases out of nowhere.

I'd love to know the amount of auto immune disease in 1st world countries compared to 3rs world countries where vaccines are not given. I wonder if I can find this.

Anyways no more vaccines for me.

[knitty kitty]

3 hours ago, Misslee said:

Dr berg isn't the one that has done the research on the link I posted you can see what the book he's reading from is if you feel like reading since it seems you don't even read but resort to the old vaccines dont do any harm type of thing.

My testimony and the testimonies of other people is proof enough anyway for me. His video just made me figure out as I never thought vaccines could do that. I was never anti vaccines and I regret it.

There is a well known controversy around aluminium in vaccines which I've heard years ago already anyway.

You can't say where my disease is from but to pretend it is genetics than to admit the probability of getting two diseases within 6 months after getting vaccine shots is kinda odd.

I'm not here to convince anyone.

I'm very glad to finally Know where my diseases are from.

My family history is that we are very healthy people we have no diabetes no heart issues no auto immune diseases no eczema nothing. I'm the only one with two diseases out of nowhere.

I'd love to know the amount of auto immune disease in 1st world countries compared to 3rs world countries where vaccines are not given. I wonder if I can find this.

Anyways no more vaccines for me.

RMJ, 

Is there aluminum hydroxide in the Covid vaccines?

Misslee,

Dr. Berg didn't research deep enough.

The adjuvant to which Dr. Berg  refers is aluminum hydroxide. 

Here's an article on aluminum hydroxide....

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/injecting-aluminum-new-documentary-questioning-vaccine-safety/

Aluminum hydroxide prevents the absorption of thiamine, Vitamin B1.

Thiamine is needed to provide energy to every cell in the body.  Under conditions of stress, the body's demand for thiamine increases.  Without enough thiamine, the body can't function properly and symptoms of thiamine deficiency become more prominent.

Another article explains this...

"Vaccination as a Stressor"

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/vaccination-stressor/

"Injection of the vaccine, acting as a stressor, simply precipitated an increased energy demand that caused an increase in thiamine consumption that was already in short supply."

 

Illness, stress (either physical or emotional), carbohydrate-heavy diets and some medications (see linked article below) can lower thiamine levels.  

"Drug–nutrient interactions: discovering prescription drug inhibitors of the thiamine" transporter ThTR-2 (SLC19A3)

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/111/1/110/5637679

Metformin is a thiamine depleting medication. 

 

Those thiamine transporters allow thiamine to enter cells.  During thiamine deficiency, these transporters shut down.  In order to get the transporters working again, high dose thiamine supplementation is required.  

"Thiamine supplementation facilitates thiamine transporter expression in the rumen epithelium and attenuates high-grain-induced inflammation in low-yielding dairy cows"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030217304071

It's interesting to note those thiamine transporter genes are located in the same area as the gene for Celiac Disease and diabetes and other autoimmune diseases.  

 

Yes, Thiamine can help alleviate inflammation.  

Inflammation and thiamine deficiency can have detrimental effects on the gastrointestinal tract as well as other systems in the body.

 

 

The cascade of health problems in thiamine deficiency is discussed in this article....

"Neurological, Psychiatric, and Biochemical Aspects of Thiamine Deficiency in Children and Adults"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6459027/

 

Thiamine is used in the treatment of Covid patients in ICUs along with vitamins C and D, and zinc....

"Be well: A potential role for vitamin B in COVID-19"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7428453/#!po=40.3846

"Thiamine is able to improve immune system function and has been shown to reduce the risk of type-2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, aging-related disorders, kidney disease, cancer, mental disorders and neurodegenerative disorders [6]. Thiamine deficiency affects the cardiovascular system, causes neuroinflammation, increases inflammation and leads to aberrant antibody responses [6]. As antibodies, and importantly T-cells, are required to eliminate the SARS-CoV-2 virus, thiamine deficiency can potentially result in inadequate antibody responses, and subsequently more severe symptoms. Hence, adequate thiamine levels are likely to aid in the proper immune responses during SARS-CoV-2 infection. In addition, the symptoms of COVID-19 are very similar to altitude sickness and high-altitude pulmonary edema. Acetazolamide is commonly prescribed to prevent high-altitude sickness and pulmonary edema through inhibition of the carbonic anhydrase isoenzymes and subsequently increases oxygen levels. Thiamine also functions as a carbonic anhydrase isoenzyme inhibitor [9]; hence, high-doses of thiamine given to people at early stages of COVID-19 could potentially limit hypoxia and decrease hospitalization."

Before anyone gets the Covid vaccine, consideration of thiamine supplementation is warranted.

 

Oh, the increase in autoimmune diseases are increasing globally, but especially in countries that switch from traditional diets to high calorie, high carbohydrate Western fast food diets.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780128103876/thiamine-deficiency-disease-dysautonomia-and-high-calorie-malnutrition

 

Do your own research.  Don't stop digging for answers.  

 

Hope this helps.  

 

 

[Misslee]

4 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

RMJ, 

Is there aluminum hydroxide in the Covid vaccines?

Misslee,

Dr. Berg didn't research deep enough.

The adjuvant to which Dr. Berg  refers is aluminum hydroxide. 

Here's an article on aluminum hydroxide....

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/injecting-aluminum-new-documentary-questioning-vaccine-safety/

Aluminum hydroxide prevents the absorption of thiamine, Vitamin B1.

Thiamine is needed to provide energy to every cell in the body.  Under conditions of stress, the body's demand for thiamine increases.  Without enough thiamine, the body can't function properly and symptoms of thiamine deficiency become more prominent.

Another article explains this...

"Vaccination as a Stressor"

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/vaccination-stressor/

"Injection of the vaccine, acting as a stressor, simply precipitated an increased energy demand that caused an increase in thiamine consumption that was already in short supply."

 

Illness, stress (either physical or emotional), carbohydrate-heavy diets and some medications (see linked article below) can lower thiamine levels.  

"Drug–nutrient interactions: discovering prescription drug inhibitors of the thiamine" transporter ThTR-2 (SLC19A3)

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/111/1/110/5637679

Metformin is a thiamine depleting medication. 

 

Those thiamine transporters allow thiamine to enter cells.  During thiamine deficiency, these transporters shut down.  In order to get the transporters working again, high dose thiamine supplementation is required.  

"Thiamine supplementation facilitates thiamine transporter expression in the rumen epithelium and attenuates high-grain-induced inflammation in low-yielding dairy cows"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030217304071

It's interesting to note those thiamine transporter genes are located in the same area as the gene for Celiac Disease and diabetes and other autoimmune diseases.  

 

Yes, Thiamine can help alleviate inflammation.  

Inflammation and thiamine deficiency can have detrimental effects on the gastrointestinal tract as well as other systems in the body.

 

 

The cascade of health problems in thiamine deficiency is discussed in this article....

"Neurological, Psychiatric, and Biochemical Aspects of Thiamine Deficiency in Children and Adults"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6459027/

 

Thiamine is used in the treatment of Covid patients in ICUs along with vitamins C and D, and zinc....

"Be well: A potential role for vitamin B in COVID-19"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7428453/#!po=40.3846

"Thiamine is able to improve immune system function and has been shown to reduce the risk of type-2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, aging-related disorders, kidney disease, cancer, mental disorders and neurodegenerative disorders [6]. Thiamine deficiency affects the cardiovascular system, causes neuroinflammation, increases inflammation and leads to aberrant antibody responses [6]. As antibodies, and importantly T-cells, are required to eliminate the SARS-CoV-2 virus, thiamine deficiency can potentially result in inadequate antibody responses, and subsequently more severe symptoms. Hence, adequate thiamine levels are likely to aid in the proper immune responses during SARS-CoV-2 infection. In addition, the symptoms of COVID-19 are very similar to altitude sickness and high-altitude pulmonary edema. Acetazolamide is commonly prescribed to prevent high-altitude sickness and pulmonary edema through inhibition of the carbonic anhydrase isoenzymes and subsequently increases oxygen levels. Thiamine also functions as a carbonic anhydrase isoenzyme inhibitor [9]; hence, high-doses of thiamine given to people at early stages of COVID-19 could potentially limit hypoxia and decrease hospitalization."

Before anyone gets the Covid vaccine, consideration of thiamine supplementation is warranted.

 

Oh, the increase in autoimmune diseases are increasing globally, but especially in countries that switch from traditional diets to high calorie, high carbohydrate Western fast food diets.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780128103876/thiamine-deficiency-disease-dysautonomia-and-high-calorie-malnutrition

 

Do your own research.  Don't stop digging for answers.  

 

Hope this helps.  

 

 

That is so interesting I havent clicked on the links yet but I will do.

thanks a lot for sharing.

[DJFL77I]

I don't think Dr Hamberger knows whats going on

[Misslee]

7 minutes ago, DJFL77I said:

I don't think Dr Hamberger knows whats going on

"Dr berg isn't the one that has done the research on the link I posted you can see what the book he's reading from is if you feel like reading since it seems you don't even read but resort to the old vaccines dont do any harm type of thing/Dr berg don't know anything"

Anyways I'm out of here. I know what's going on so I do me and you do you. Enjoy your vaccines.

Peace.

[RMJ]

There is no aluminum in either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine.