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Omg...i Might Be On To Something


Rachel--24

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Green12 Enthusiast

Hi everyone, I seem to have quite a bit of brainfog the last couple of days, and not feeling quite myself :(

I missed a lot of posts last night and this morning, I was getting worried there for a few days it was so quiet- I like when everyone is here posting :)

Thanks Jin for the info about the enteric coated oregano caps, I'll look into that.

Re: the info about candida/Chinese medicine, I don't have a link to refer you to it's just the info I've learned over the years going to acupuncture. I ask lots of questions, probably drive them crazy, but I want to know what everything means and why.

Matilda- I don't know if this was brought up by anyone (sorry if it was) but it might be a good idea to keep a record, daily journal of some sort to track your progress as you add things in. I also would suggest you add things in one at a time and slowly because then you get a better picture of what is working or what is not, if you add too many things in at once and get symptoms then there is no telling what caused it.

Carla, sounds like you have done quite a bit of ruling the simple things out already.

I really feel for you and I'm sorry you are having so much difficulty with him, and even more so that he is so angry (unhappy, frustrated, clouded, whatever the case) that he can't verbalize it or work through it and instead acts out with rage.

If he is not willing to help you help him, I'm not sure what you can do. You can have him tested, but if he won't take the meds or go through all the steps of treatment, then again, what can you do?

While I agree with I think Andrea said it, that a lot of young people aren't interested in health...and I really feel the majority of them aren't able to connect to their bodies, or become in tune with all the signals it is sending them that things are off.

Sorry I can't be more helpful. Hang in there with it all.

Oh, and good news about all of Chloe's improvements.

Miamia, thanks so much for the update, I have to agree that the fact mercury is showing up is a good sign. I think that Rachel had posted many quotes and linked to pages that talked about mercury not even showing up, and if I recall correctly that meant is was more of a problem and a sign that it was not mobilizing.

Hi Patti, thanks for the update on Mark. I'm glad that it wasn't a tear! Good to hear he's taken it easy and feeling better :)

I have to agree that kids are sugar crazy! I mean sugar has been around in every generation, but the kids today seem out of control with it, and what I notice is the behavioral issues as a result. It seems to be at a whole other level now a days.

Hi to Susie, have your modds improved any? Still feeling really overwhelmed?

Kassandra, sorry you had a bad day. Hope today is a better day for you :)


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AndreaB Contributor

Julie,

Sorry you've been out of it the last few days. :( Hope things get better quickly.

Patti,

Great news about Mark's knee!

Rachel--24 Collaborator

Mia,

I agree with what everyone has said....I think its a REALLY good sign that you're seeing elevated levels of mercury. :)

I was actually saying a little silent prayer about this earlier today. I'm hoping that my levels come out high when I take the test....otherwise I'm gonna be pretty bummed out.

The Dr. told me he feels I'm not someone who's going to be moving things out very quickly. He's assuming I'm gonna be a very slow detoxer.

Well...I've already surprised both him and Anna with my progress....so hopefully this trend will continue. :)

Rachel--24 Collaborator
Hi everyone, I seem to have quite a bit of brainfog the last couple of days, and not feeling quite myself :(

Julie....feel better soon. Lots of hugs and good thoughts coming your way! :)

jerseyangel Proficient
Well...I've already surprised both him and Anna with my progress....so hopefully this trend will continue. :)

I'm sure it will :) I'll keep good thoughts for you!

Rachel--24 Collaborator
Rachel, let's say we have him tested and he's positive ... the real question is, do you treat someone with a stiff neck and a cough? I know Lyme is a clinical diagnosis and asymptomatic people have exposure, but at what point do you treat?

I figured that with *any* symptoms and a positive test it would be better to start treatment rather than wait for things to get worse. I dont know for sure though...the Dr. would know better.

Would you consider him to be asymptomatic?? I was thinking with the stiff neck and fatigue...it might be that he's having symptoms....just not debilitating ones.

Its hard to say whats the best thing to do. You could also consider a CD57 if he tested positive for Lyme....see how well his immune system is handling it.

Rachel--24 Collaborator
I'm sure it will :) I'll keep good thoughts for you!

Thanks Patti. :)

I hope everything goes smoothly with your move!! I know you'll be very busy...hopefully you get back online quickly cuz we're gonna miss you. :wub:

Glad to hear that Mark is feeling better. :)


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Rachel--24 Collaborator
I think I was supposed to grovel and beg. All I could think about was a friend of mine who always said she could understand why other species eat their young! :lol:

That made me laugh out loud. :lol:

Ummm..yeah....I recall having those same discussions with my mom about moving out AS SOON AS I TURN 18!! :lol:

"I'm sooooo out of here the day I turn 18!!"

Yeah right...I didnt really move out till I was 22. I was hardly home at all but I didnt actually MOVE my butt out till 22. :P

AndreaB Contributor
Well...I've already surprised both him and Anna with my progress....so hopefully this trend will continue. :)

I'm hoping for the same thing. I really think the LED's helped move things along. :)

Rachel--24 Collaborator
At work, so this will be a quick one. Just wanted to thank Rachel for the stuff on lymph and swelling. That's always been an issue for me and is particularly bad at the moment, so I can empathise with Christine. Thanks for posting the supplements list. I'll take a really good look at that when i get home.

Susie and Mia....the supplement list I posted was a really short version of what my Dr. has listed. I've posted the whole list but its been awhile. If anyone is interested I can direct you to the article and you can then save it or print it out. :)

I picked some of the more mild treatments for Matilda....the list is actually alot longer.

I'll post the link later on. :)

Rachel--24 Collaborator
Rachel, good luck today :) Reading and/or listening to music will make the time go by and I have the highest hope that this will be helpful for you.

I'm hoping for the same thing. I really think the LED's helped move things along.

Thanks guys. :)

I'm really really nervous about the IV. I'm not usually this stressed out over going in for a test....(not that this is an actual test)...hopefully I can report good news later on!

Rachel--24 Collaborator
Carla, Julie, Rachel, thank you. Really. I've been very stuck in my opinions and you are so generous with your sharing and your advice.

Matilda

Matilda,

One of the best things about learning all of this stuff and going through all the treatments is having a place to share it all...to get advice, support and to help others who are needing the same. :)

Rachel--24 Collaborator
I don't know if I already said this, but we called a GI Dr. and the nurse called us back saying it would take a month to get in, but we're going to call and try to get in sooner because I want to rule ulcers, etc. out to make sure that's not what's causing my GI symptoms. If we go to her and we don't get answers...then my mom agreed I will get tested for Lyme.

Kassandra,

I hope you can get in sooner with the GI...I'm glad to hear that you're gonna move forward with Lyme testing if you dont get answers soon.

I'm concerned about the mold in your home. :(

Its definately not gonna be helping the situation...hopefully there is some way to improve this??

Sorry about the chair...that really sucks. :(

covsooze Enthusiast
Susie and Mia....the supplement list I posted was a really short version of what my Dr. has listed. I've posted the whole list but its been awhile. If anyone is interested I can direct you to the article and you can then save it or print it out. :)

I picked some of the more mild treatments for Matilda....the list is actually alot longer.

I'll post the link later on. :)

Yes please :)

Saying a prayer for you tonight (it's bedtime here) Rachel :wub:

Susie x

CarlaB Enthusiast
I figured that with *any* symptoms and a positive test it would be better to start treatment rather than wait for things to get worse. I dont know for sure though...the Dr. would know better.

Would you consider him to be asymptomatic?? I was thinking with the stiff neck and fatigue...it might be that he's having symptoms....just not debilitating ones.

Its hard to say whats the best thing to do. You could also consider a CD57 if he tested positive for Lyme....see how well his immune system is handling it.

No, I don't consider him asymptomatic ... the stiff neck and constant throat clearing/cough are both symptoms. They don't really look too hard at fatigue or mood swings in teenagers because it's pretty common.

CD57 is a good idea, but my doc doesn't do that test.

I'll see what the PA says tomorrow. I don't want to drag him up to NY for testing if it's not necessary. Plus, I'm quite certain he won't comply with treatment. He can't even remember to take his Augmentin. Chloe takes all her pills on her own.

It's not an easy question, which is why I wanted to hear from you guys. :)

CarlaB Enthusiast
That made me laugh out loud. :lol:

Ummm..yeah....I recall having those same discussions with my mom about moving out AS SOON AS I TURN 18!! :lol:

"I'm sooooo out of here the day I turn 18!!"

Yeah right...I didnt really move out till I was 22. I was hardly home at all but I didnt actually MOVE my butt out till 22. :P

Well, he's definately leaving next year ... he's a bad influence on his little brother ... it's so hard to believe that the same parents raised him as raised Morgan. :( He's NOT living here till he's 22 ... unless he ends up having Lyme and is sick like I am ... God help me.

AndreaB Contributor
Well, he's definately leaving next year ... he's a bad influence on his little brother ... it's so hard to believe that the same parents raised him as raised Morgan. :( He's NOT living here till he's 22 ... unless he ends up having Lyme and is sick like I am ... God help me.

I know what you mean.

It was a different situation with us and Mitch's second oldest since his mother lived a half an hour away. I kicked him out of the house after he hit me once. His father was home and backed me up. We were fearful of Talitha as well. His oldest brother was concerned about my safety once when Mitch had to be away. This one has been unstable for quite awhile. With meds he's better now though.

I hope he doesn't get sick like you but he's going through the typical I'm invicible stage....it sounds like anyway. I'm glad Chloe is responsible to take her meds. :)

Give Morgan a hug for me next time you see her. I know she really helps you out a lot.

I see you Rachel! How'd it go?

mftnchn Explorer

A quick drive by, getting ready for a two week trip, so this has been a "short" week home.

Yes, the Pfizer Zithromax is supposed to be gluten-free, and the Beijing office called to confirm for me. I haven't been terribly strict on the meds so far, because it is hard for me to confirm ingredients from out here. But as far as I know I am not taking soy, milk, or gluten except milk in the transfer factor.

Does this make a difference? I don't know.

Wow, am I herxing this week!! I switched to Zithromax (versus another brand of azithromycin) the day before I started my two days of flagyl this week, and yesterday and today there's been strong herx symptoms.

So it looks like it might be worth paying double the price for Zithromax. Drugs here a notorious for being unreliable--though the pharmacy pushed and pushed for me not to pay so much for the Zithromax and to keep using another brand. No sense whether the switch will help with BM's.

I am trying to keep up reading but not much time and energy to post.

Haven't noticed what happens when I wear pink but you all have me intrigued! ;)

mftnchn Explorer

I think it is so very hard as a parent of adult or almost adult children. We love and want to help them, but they want to make their own decisions and have different priorities.

Carla, he sounds very challenging to live with. His noncompliance would make most anything difficult. Does he connect well with anyone? Is it only family and school where he shows these characteristics?

I'm assuming from what you said that you have never found any dietary approach that made a difference to his symptoms. Was there a particular age when the symptoms started?

My thought is that you might do the lyme test while he is under your care; then if at some point he does want to seek help, he would have a direction.

mftnchn Explorer

Forgot to say that my liver enzymes are elevated just a bit. Have a phone appointment 10/31. Meantime, will increase my charcoal and try to drink more water.

NoGluGirl Contributor

Dear Rachel,

I will be anxious to see the link to that supplement list! :) Post it when you get the chance. I know you are busy.

That list alone was very helpful. Sometimes basic is good. You have to start somewhere, right? ;)

Did your chelation go well? I hope so. Your body should be excreting by now. The sulfur pathways were probably the major issue there. Let us know how things went at your appointment! Do you have the big orange jug in your near future?

I agree that Carla may be better off getting her son tested now. The sooner he gets treatment, the better, if Lyme is the trouble. Symptoms can be so vague. This is one of the reasons Lyme is missed so often. So many issues can be confused with allergies and other conditions.

Dear Susie,

I have no idea about Magnesium supplements. I will probably just begin taking a multi for now. I heard Nature Made has some good ones that are labeled gluten-free. The symptoms I have been having seem to be related to a B Vitamin and Magnesium deficiency. I am concerned my gut is not healed enough to digest them, though. I wonder if there are sublingual forms of Magnesium? I know there is Sublingual B Vitamins.

I think I finally found a supplement with Calcium I can take! It is called bone meal. We originally got it at the healthfood store for homemade dog food. Since we have special food for him he does well with, I am thinking on giving it a try. There is no wheat, soy, corn, yeast, or dairy in it.

Dear Andrea,

I ended up having to cancel my eye doctor appointment and reschedule. I was so weak and felt like passing out. :(

Maybe if I begin taking some supplements, I will feel a little better by the time the 30th rolls around. Feeling like this is really scaring me. This really is horrible.

That is scary about what you went through with your step-son. :o My mother's hairdresser has a daughter with bipolar.

She gets violent. According to the research I have done on it, that is not uncommon. When people begin hurting others, something must be done. Sometimes, you may have to take extreme measures to make sure they do not harm themselves.

How frightening is it that children as young as eight are beginning puberty? It is all the hormones in our meat. They pump it full of stuff to make them grow faster, and we suffer for eating it. I hope your daughter does not go into that until she is much older! If not for her sake, then for yours!

Dear Patti,

I am glad Mark's knee is recovering. :) That is good news! Thank goodness it was not a tear! My best friend's brother had one and had to have surgery recently. Arthritis definitely can cause misery when you overdo it.

Thank you for your compliments! I would probably not be such a good guidance counselor. There are times I do not have a clue what I want! Lately, I have been terrible about that! Being an attorney would be great. Now, if I can only get money to continue with my Bachelor's so I can go to law school! :blink:

I can see why you would be overwhelmed. Moving is a lot of work! I have been overwhelmed lately. Everything just freaks me out. It is probably because I am sick and have no money. If I were well and able to work, or if I was rich, I would be a lot less stressed! Meanwhile, I am checking out a disability lawyer, and seeing if maybe he can help.

Dear Julie,

Brain fog is no fun. :( Hopefully, you will be feeling more like yourself again today. Vitamin deficiencies are something I am sure I have. Maybe I could go to the healthfood store this week and get some supplements. I have a plan of action I am going to start implementing this week. Every little bit helps, whether it is just beginning to drink lemon water and eating mostly alkaline foods at first. Each week I am going to add a new supplement and detox activity.

You are very welcome for the information on the enteric-coated oil of oregano! ;) I know that peppermint oil is produced that way so that it does not burn the stomach. It is used for IBS. I think the enteric-coated is the type I would have to take, because my system is so fragile. I was surprised that the price was so reasonable.

Sugar consumption is out of control in all age groups! The thing that most people do not realize is that sugar is addictive, particularly the processed kind. No one should be eating it. Natural sugars like maple syrup and sugar, beet sugar, date sugar, palm sugar, brown rice syrup, honey, and agave nectar are healthier. They metabolize differently.

Dear Donna,

Soy gas bombs it is! :D We are ready for attack! No one can keep us from our cookies! :lol: I have some grenades and darts to be safe. You never know when you need extra help.

Rachonneling is a great new word! I am going to have to use it all the time now! :lol: I was rachonneling popcorn just last week! :lol: I rachonneled chocolate yesterday. I just love new words!

You are welcome for the enteric-coated oil of oregano links! B) I may end up getting some later. I cannot believe how inexpensive it is compared to the liquid supplements. You have to wonder about that. RiceGuy can get NOW products for half price because he found this place he orders from that is close to the NOW plant where their stuff is made! He orders any of the NOW products from them. I will try and see if I can get the name of the place again.

Dear Carla,

Those symptoms your son is having sound like Lyme. It is not severe yet, but waiting until it is would be bad.

Taking care of this now is best if you can. The rage could be medication related. Also, ADHD sometimes causes children to be destructive. My mother's best friend's son tore up everything!

Your eleven year-old is badly addicted to sugar. That stuff is chemically addictive, and hard to stop. He may act out when he has not had sugar because he is addicted and experiencing withdrawal. I am reducing my intake of sugar gradually, because I get really nasty when I need my sugar. After I have chocolate, I am nice and perky.

It is great to hear how well Chloe is doing! The once a month moodiness might be puberty trying to start. I started my periods later than average. I was fourteen-and-a-half before I began puberty. It was all downhill from there, too. :( I used to wear a size 0 or 2, and within a year of beginning puberty, I shot up to a size 8. Stupid hips!

Dear Sherry,

I love Zithromax! It is one of the few antibiotics that do not nearly kill me! There are only a select few my body can handle. Zith usually gives me a bit of the poops, but nothing that I cannot handle. Plus, you do not have to take it but once a day after the first day!

Is the generic Zith safe in the U.S. for us? I do not have insurance. It would be good to have my ducks all in a row in case I do have Lyme. With the yeast situation, an herbal protocol would be preferable. I do have some good ideas on supplements now. NOW makes one that has black walnut, GSE, oil of oregano, and Pau D'Arco for $11.99. I am thinking on getting that one after I do some alkalizing.

Where is your trip to this time? I am glad you got to go home temporarily. Recharging your batteries is important. You cannot be running all of the time. It will kill you!

I hope your herx does not last too long. Those can really be miserable. Carla says lemon water helps. As far as your supplement and the dairy goes, I am not sure if that would set your system off or not. This depends on how sensitive you are. A trace may not bother some people, while others get very ill. I suppose it is kind of like gluten.

So far, everyone is having pretty good results with the pink. It is supposed to promote health. Wearing it has been working for Rachel in many ways! I read somewhere people who wear pink are seen as more friendly and approachable. I am willing to try it!

Sincerely,

Jin

covsooze Enthusiast

Jin, and anyone else interested in magnesium deficiency, this link is very interesting and draws a strong link between magnesium deficiency and depression. Maybe this is part of why we 'self-medicate' with choclate when we are depressed.

Open Original Shared Link

The one point I'd like some clarification on, is why this article is suggesting the magnesium be taken as glycinate and taurinate. I will have to research that later..The only magnesium supplement I've found so far that doesn't contain stearate, which gives me hives, is magnesium amino acid chelate.

It's interesting also to note that calcium inhibits magnesium uptake. In this country, coeliacs are encouraged to supplement with calcium, the recommendation being 1500mg per day. Hmm.

Rachel, hope you're OK.

Susie x

NoGluGirl Contributor

Dear Susie,

Thank you for the article! That was great! It is going to be interesting exploring the glycinate and taurinate aspects. There appears to be a connection between magnesium deficiencies and serotonin. Do potatoes have a lot of magnesium? I know peanut butter does, and I get easily addicted to that.

According to the article, excessive calcium intake would deplete magnesium. As long as you take a normal amount, there should not be a problem. I have not gotten to research the angle on that just yet. Still, I am concerned that drinking coffee will prevent me from absorbing the magnesium. I sip it, instead of gulping it. I know coffee can prevent calcium from being absorbed.

Sincerely,

Jin

covsooze Enthusiast

Hi Jin :)

If you liked that article, you'll love this one:

Open Original Shared Link

It's very scientific! :lol:

Susie x

NoGluGirl Contributor

Dear Susie,

That was so cool! Now here is a great charity! I would donate to them if I had money!

Anyone who gives me a good excuse to eat chocolate deserves my support! The magnesium deficiency certainly plays a role in this for me, I think.

I do feel that its effect on serotonin is part of it as well. Since it contains tryptophan, which converts to serotonin in the body, eating it makes me feel better. Chocolate is something I think is healthier than a lot of other things. What was really amazing was those women who lived to be 122 and 119 years of age! Such likings for foods are genetic as well.

My grandfather always has chocolate around, and eats it every single day! My father also loves chocolate.

Sincerely,

Jin

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Examples: • I wash my hands 20–30 times a day — before eating, after touching anything at home or outside, after using my phone/laptop. • I don’t let others touch my phone, and I’m scared to use my laptop because friends at school or my brother (who eat gluten) have touched it. And it annoys me a lot when others touch my stuff and feels like it got contaminated and is unsafe instantly. • I stopped eating while using my phone or laptop, afraid of invisible gluten being on them. • I wash my hands after opening food packaging (since it was on store cashier belts where gluten food is placed). • I avoid sitting anywhere except my bed or one clean chair. • I won’t shake hands with anyone or walk past people eating gluten. • At school, when switching classes, I wash my hands before getting out my laptop, again before opening it, etc. • I open door knobs with my elbows instead my hands   Job Concerns (Powder Coating, Sandblasting, Etc.) I’m working a temporary job right now that involves: • Powder coating • Sandblasting • Wet spray painting • Anodizing There’s also a laboratory. I don’t need this job, and my OCD makes me believe that dust or air particles there might contain gluten somehow. Should I quit?   Doctors Haven’t Helped My family doctor told me: “Asymptomatic celiac isn’t serious, if you have no symptoms, your intestines won’t get damaged, so you don’t need a gluten-free diet.” I knew that was wrong, but he wasn’t open to listening. I just nodded and didn‘t argue. My gastroenterologist (who’s also a dietitian) said: „If your antibodies are negative, there’s no damage. It might even be okay to try small amounts of gluten later if antibodies stay negative.“ Also said, pepper that says “may contain gluten” is fine if it only contains pepper. She was more informed than my family doctor but didn’t seem to fully understand celiac either.   Questions I Need Help With 1. Is it realistically safe to eat food my mom cooks, if we get separate pans/ and boards even if gluten is still used in the same kitchen? There will always be low risk of cc chances like that she will still touch stuff that was touched by her and my siblings after they ate gluten. And as there are gluten eaters in the house and she also prepares and eats gluten. So would opening the fridge then getting the food and touching the food be okay? So basically what i am doing, washing my hands multiple times while preparing food, she would only wash it once before, then touch anything else (for example water tap or handles) that were touched with gluteny hands, then also touch the food. I dont know if I ever could feel safe, I could try telling her how important cc really is. And I trust her so she wouldnt lie to me then be careless about cc, but idk how safe it really can be if she and everyone else keeps eating gluten and touching stuff in the house after eating. 2. Do I need to worry about touching doorknobs, fridge handles, light switches, etc. that family members touched after eating gluten? What about public places like bus handles or school desks? Or like if i went to the gym, I would be touching stuff all the time, so there will be small amounts of gluten and those would get transferred on my phone if I touch my phone while in the gym. But I want to knos if it would be enough to do damage. 3. Is an endoscopy (without biopsy) enough to tell if my intestines are healed? I’d pay privately if it could help and if i dont get a refferal. Or do i need a biopsy? 4. Could my job (powder coating, sandblasting, etc.) expose me to gluten or damage my intestines through air/dust? 5. Do I need certified gluten-free toothpaste, hand soap, shampoo, or moisturizer? (For example: Vaseline and Colgate don’t contain gluten ingredients but say they can’t guarantee it’s gluten-free.) 6. Is spices like pepper with “may contain traces of gluten” safe if no gluten ingredients are listed? Or does everything need to be labeled gluten-free?  7. Is continuing to only eat my own food the better choice, or could I eventually go back to eating what my mom cooks if she’s careful? 8. is cutlery from dishwasher safe if there are stains? Stuff like knives is used for cutting gluten bread or fork for noodles etc. I often see stains which i dont know if its gluten or something else but our dish washer doesnt seem to make it completely clean. 9. I wash my hands multiple times while preparing food. Do i need to do the same when touching my phone. Like if i touch the fridge handle, I wash my hands then touch the phone. I dont eat while using my phone but i leave it on my bed and pillow and my face could come in contact with where it was.  10. Do i need to clean my phone or laptop if theyve been used by people who eat gluten? Even if no crumbs fall onto my keybaord, i mean because of invisible gluten on their fingers. 11. Does medication/supplements have to be strictly glutenfree? One company said they couldn‘t guarantee if their probiotics don’t contain traces of gluten.  12. I had bought supplements in the past, some of them say glutenfree and some of them dont(like the brand „NOW“ from iherb). I bought them and used them when i wasnt washing my hands so often, are they still safe? As I touched and opened them after touching door knobs, water taps etc. It was like a year ago when i bought those and even though i was eating gluten-free, I never worried about what i touch etc. I know this post is long. I’m just extremely overwhelmed. I’m trying to protect myself from long-term health damage, but the OCD is destroying my quality of life, and I honestly don’t know what’s a reasonable level of caution anymore. Thanks for reading.
    • lmemsm
      I've been making a lot of black bean brownies lately because it's one of the few gluten free dessert recipes that actually tastes palatable.  I've also seen chocolate cake recipes with black beans.  Someone mentioned a cookie recipe using lentils in place of flour.  Just wondering if anyone's run across any tried and true recipes using beans, lentils or peas for desserts?  I've seen a lot of recipes for garbanzo flour but I'm allergic to garbanzo beans/chickpeas.  Was wondering if adzuki or pinto beans might be useful in replacing some or all of the flour in baking.  Since gluten free flours can be crumbly was hoping the beans might help produce a better, less crumbly consistency.  Any recommendations for recipes?  Thanks.
    • lmemsm
      I've seen a lot of recipes for chia pudding, so I decided to make some with chia, water, cocoa and honey.  Didn't like the taste, so I added ground sunflower and ground pumpkin seed to it.  It tasted okay, but came out more like frosting that pudding.  I used to make pudding with tapioca starch, milk powder, water and sugar.  It came out very good but I haven't figured out what to use to replace the milk powder to make it dairy free.  Most starches will work in place of tapioca starch but quantity varies depending on the type of starch.  If I didn't add enough starch to get a pudding consistency, I'd add gelatin as well to fix it.  Avocado and cocoa makes a good dessert with a pudding like consistency.  Unfortunately, I have a bad reaction to avocados.
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