Day Two gluten-free

[JerryK]

My wife and friends wanted to go out for Italian food. My wife, knowing that I've pledged to go six months gluten-free, looked at me bewilderingly when I agreed to go.

Man this was tough. What do you eat at an Italian place that you can reasonably be sure is safe.

Well I chose Minestroni soup and Gnuchhi (Potato Pasta) along with some antipasto.

While I can't be 100% sure that the soup and potato pasta contained no gluten, I'm sure they weren't chocked full of it like a nice lasagna would have been.

I think I did ok. Although I sure wanted Pizza, Lasagna, etc....

I can't figure out where to post anymore...pre-diagnoses--post diagnoses----still unconvinced

Hope everyone has a happy new year! Jerry

[nikki-uk]

My wife and friends wanted to go out for Italian food. My wife, knowing that I've pledged to go six months gluten-free, looked at me bewilderingly when I agreed to go.

Man this was tough. What do you eat at an Italian place that you can reasonably be sure is safe.

Well I chose Minestroni soup and Gnuchhi (Potato Pasta) along with some antipasto.

While I can't be 100% sure that the soup and potato pasta contained no gluten, I'm sure they weren't chocked full of it like a nice lasagna would have been.

I think I did ok. Although I sure wanted Pizza, Lasagna, etc....

Minestroni soup has small pieces of pasta in it!!

It can be hard eating out - and if you really want to know if you feel better gluten-free you've got to be totally gluten-free.

'If in doubt - leave it out'

Maybe next time you eat out you can call ahead and see if the restaurant can provide a gluten-free meal, or get one of those dining cards which says the ingredients you can't have

Better luck next time!

[Guest cassidy]

I don't know why you are going gluten-free since you phrased it like it was a 6 month trial and not a life changing way of eating. If you are really serious about this then you will find that you are going to have to be more careful.

Gluten can hide in many foods and figuring it all out can be tough in the beginning. Most people find that if they go on a basic diet of foods that are naturally gluten-free like meats, veggies, fruits, dairy (if you can handle it) they do best. It gives your body time to heal without dealing with hard to digest preservatives and gives you a chance to get the hang of this without having to read labels at every turn.

If you need to be gluten-free then having less gluten than before isn't going to do you any good. I usually think of eating out as advanced gluten-free eating. Once you master eating the basics then you can learn to read the labels and have some new favorite/stand by items that you don't have to think twice about, then you can learn how to talk to the chef and tell them exactly what you need.

My recommendation for dinner would have been talking to the chef without a doubt and then getting something like a meat that can be prepared in its own dish (baked is easy) and some steamed veggies. It really depends how sensitive you are if you can eat out without a problem or not.

I'm not trying to be hard on you because on day 2 I certainly got myself sick, heck I got myself sick for pretty much the first month. There is definitely a learning curve, and many people eat out successfully, but it does take preparation. Good luck figuring things out - there are lots of people here willing to help.

[gadgetgirl]

Jerry,

The first thing my husband said to me when I told him I was gluten intolerant was "I guess we can't eat at Clara's anymore". Clara's is our local fresh pasta restaurant where we had been going for 15 years.

I did a lot of reading on this site and in some other books and then I gave the manager a call at a quiet time. I told him of my restrictions (I can't have dairy either) and he assured me that it was no problem for me to bring a bag of my rice pasta in and that they would cook it in a separate, clean pot. We discussed which sauces were free of dairy and I asked if I should avoid the busy times. He assured me I was welcome no matter what time I came.

I've have been there 3 times in the past 2 months - all without any problems whatsoever! I order the breast of chicken with the veggie marinara sauce put on my supplied pasta. I order a plain lettuce salad with just zucchini and carrots on it. I bring my own dressing along.

I encourange you to do more research on the types of restaurants you enjoy and then give the manager a call to discuss your needs. The restuarant I mentioned has 5 or 6 other people who do the same thing on a regular basis. And the manager's mother was recently diagnosed with a wheat allergy so the awareness is out there.

Good Luck!

[nikki-uk]

I usually think of eating out as advanced gluten-free eating.

What a great way of putting it!! - definitely not for beginners!

It is indeed a constant learning curve - but you'll be suprised at how much info you'll learn along the way.

[ravenwoodglass]

My wife and friends wanted to go out for Italian food. My wife, knowing that I've pledged to go six months gluten-free, looked at me bewilderingly when I agreed to go.

Man this was tough. What do you eat at an Italian place that you can reasonably be sure is safe.

Well I chose Minestroni soup and Gnuchhi (Potato Pasta) along with some antipasto.

While I can't be 100% sure that the soup and potato pasta contained no gluten, I'm sure they weren't chocked full of it like a nice lasagna would have been.

I think I did ok. Although I sure wanted Pizza, Lasagna, etc....

I can't figure out where to post anymore...pre-diagnoses--post diagnoses----still unconvinced

Hope everyone has a happy new year! Jerry

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you could have just had the lasagna, you would have gotten the same amount of gluten. Gnocchi are not gluten free, they may be described as a potato pasta but it is still a pasta with wheat, usually semolina is used.

[tarnalberry]

You had said you wouldn't eat things without *knowing* they were gluten free, but you guessed? It's not going to work well to run your trial that way.

Minnestrone is a vegetable, bean, and pasta based soup, and virtually all gnocci uses wheat flour to help bind the potato. Sorry, but that's a double. Next time, call ahead, talk to the waiter, and check recipe ingredients so you know what goes into foods first. It's tough, especially if you don't cook and know what goes into these dishes, but you still have to learn it all.

[JerryK]

You had said you wouldn't eat things without *knowing* they were gluten free, but you guessed? It's not going to work well to run your trial that way.

Minnestrone is a vegetable, bean, and pasta based soup, and virtually all gnocci uses wheat flour to help bind the potato. Sorry, but that's a double. Next time, call ahead, talk to the waiter, and check recipe ingredients so you know what goes into foods first. It's tough, especially if you don't cook and know what goes into these dishes, but you still have to learn it all.

First of all there was no pasta in this soup. Perhaps there may have been some wheat four in the potato, but they were potato dumplings. Next time I'll just not eat if that would make ya'all happy.

I can only do my best.

[CarlaB]

First of all there was no pasta in this soup. Perhaps there may have been some wheat four in the potato, but they were potato dumplings. Next time I'll just not eat if that would make ya'all happy.

I can only do my best.

People here are just trying to be a help ... being exposed to a little bit of gluten is similar to being exposed to a little bit of the flu in that both trigger an immune response. If you are exposed to one person with the flu or one hundred, you still get the same flu. If you're exposed to a little bit of gluten, you still have an immune reaction.

There is definately a learning curve here. It takes many of us six months just to learn to be 100% gluten free. It's hidden everywhere.

I actually never order soup out. I read the soup ingredients at Panera Bread early on and every soup I read had wheat flour in it! Even the brothy looking ones. I understand some of their soups are gluten-free, but each one I read the ingredients for before I gave up had gluten.

In an Italian restaurant (Carrabas has a gluten-free menu and Maggianos will send the chef to your table and will supply gluten-free pasta), I would generally order some kind of meat, I would ask if they marinate it, I would be sure they cook it on a clean surface, etc. Unfortunately, unless the restaurant has a gluten-free menu, the days of easy ordering are over. I would order plain veggies w/no seasoning and a baked potato.

I understand your frustration, but what you ate was not gluten-free and people here were only trying to help.

[CarlaB]

First of all there was no pasta in this soup. Perhaps there may have been some wheat four in the potato, but they were potato dumplings. Next time I'll just not eat if that would make ya'all happy.

I can only do my best.

BTW, I know I can't find the specific recipe that particular restaurant used, but here's a basic potato dumpling recipe.

POTATO DUMPLINGS

4 medium potatoes, boiled

1/2 cup sifted flour

1/2 tsp baking powder

1 tsp salt

1/4 tsp pepper

2 T grated onion with juice

1/2 cup dried bread crumbs

1 1/2 tsp melted butter

1 egg, slightly beaten

2 quarts boiling water

1/2 tsp salt

Rice the potatoes. Sift together flour, baking powder, salt and pepper. Combine riced potatoes, flour mixture, onion, bread crumbs, butter and egg.

Mix well. Shape into 12 small balls and dredge lightly with flour. Chill. Drop dumplings into boiling salted water. Cover and boil 15 minutes.

[Guhlia]

Jerry, I can assure you no one wants you to starve. We only want you to get better. I hope you don't take offense to this, but let me just tell you how I see things.

You came to this forum in search of answers. Obviously you felt/feel as though there's a problem. Then some very heavy denial set in when you were getting closer to some answers. Since then you have spent more time in trying to find reasons why you DON'T/CAN'T have a gluten intolerance rather than ways of coping with a possible gluten intolerance. You have already been diagnosed by a doctor (Dr. Fine of enterolab) and yet you are still unwilling to accept things. Trust me, I understand how hard it can be in the beginning, we all can. We were all there at some point. We've all been through the denial. It's tough. We are here to help you. It's hard to help someone though when they're not willing to accept their fate. I hope I'm saying all this right and making sense. It was exciting when you came on and posted that you were going to give the diet a 100% chance for 6 months. It's frustrating when only 24 hours later you talk about eating gluten. I understand that you didn't know there was gluten in it. I didn't know what to avoid my first few days either, probably even my first few months. However, I hope next time you will take extra precaution when dining out. Perhaps stick to some safe restaurants like Outback, Carraba's, PF Changs, Bonefish Grill, Chilli's, etc... There are many to choose from. You're a smart man and I know you've done plenty of reading on what's gluten free and what's not. Stick to the diet and see what happens. You can do it.

[tarnalberry]

Every gnocci recipe and package I've seen has flour. Just because they're called "potato dumplings" doesn't mean they don't have other things in them. I *know* you're trying - you're demonstrating that. Kudos if you found one of the few minestrone's that doesn't have pasta! But the point is that you need to *ask* because you can't know what is in there as you didn't see it prepared.

I'm sorry for coming across harshly; I didn't intend to.

[celiacgirls]

I've read a lot of your posts so I know one thing you are hoping for is your depression symptoms to go away as well as your GI symptoms. I never had GI symptoms so I can't really address that but I did have depression, fatigue, brain fog, etc. I do want to encourage you to be as strict as you possibly can for your 6 month trial or else you may not really know how good you can feel.

Several years ago, I tried the gluten-free diet for several months hoping it would help with my migraines. I never ate obvious gluten like bread or pasta but I didn't worry about seasonings or trace amounts. The diet didn't make an obvious difference that time. When we got my daughter's Enterolab results last spring, we started being strict about all the trace amounts for her. So when I started after her, I was able to be extremely gluten-free right away. I could tell an immediate difference in how I felt (less than 2 days). Since then, my last known glutening was from some supposedly gluten-free french fries which must have had some cc. For 2 1/2 weeks, I suffered from depression and fatigue again.

My point is that it is those tiny amounts which might mean the difference between you seeing some results and not. Eating in restaurants, even ordering gluten-free, is risky and you should consider not doing it for a while until you know how good you can feel gluten-free. We hardly ever go to restaurants any more because not only do I have to deal with my own symptoms if there is a mistake, but my 2 kids also suffer the effects and 3 of us glutened at the same time isn't fun! My husband is not very happy about this turn of events but is adjusting. When it has been just the two of us going, I have eaten before we went and just had a drink while he ate.

Good luck with your 6 month trial.

[happygirl]

Jerry,

Check out the advice in my signature. It is hands down the best way to be gluten free.

The broth in soup may have gluten, also, even if there wasn't any pasta in it.

Its a steep learning curve!

Good luck,

Laura

[Nancym]

Jerry, don't lose sight of the fact you're doing this for yourself, not us. Everyone makes mistakes at the beginning and I suppose if you're a guy that hasn't spent a lot of time cooking you've probably got even less of an idea of what possible problems are. Eating out is difficult even for those more experienced. I'd stick to places that have a gluten free menu at first (Outback, PF Changs, and others). Also the gluten free dining cards make things SO much easier. Calling ahead and looking places up online helps too. If you're suffering from depression well it probably makes everything seem more difficult too. But I think once you get the hang of it you'll do fine. You've obviously got a lot of people here willing to help guide you and cheer you on.

[Mango04]

Some ppl bring their own gluten-free pasta (cooked or uncooked) to italian restaurants so they can still enjoy a meal with friends/family. Something else you can sometimes order at Italian places is polenta.

[zansu]

Something else you can sometimes order at Italian places is polenta.

but only if you check: I asked at a restaurant not too long ago and they floured the pan they used to form the polenta

[JerryK]

Sorry for seeming so frustrated, but believe me it's tough as you all know. My wife buys in, because she's watched my symptoms come and go and knows something is up.

I've been eating a lot of eggs, potatoes and meat, because I know those are MY safe foods. Right now our fridge is full of left-over pizza, Chinese food and Italian food. You don't (well you probably do) know how hard it is with all that food in there, to prepare something for myself that I know is safe.

And then over at my mom's this morning, she's trying to shove Pecan Pie tarts down my throat.....

I politely declined;)

Despite the mistake I made at the Italian restaurant, I really am giving it my best shot. I bought the book: "Gluten Free for Dummies", although I'm not a dummy, I'm not the world's best cook. Perhaps it will help. Again, sorry for being such a grump the other night. jerry

[CarlaB]

It's okay, Jerry, we've all been there!!

Meat, chicken, fish, eggs, fruit, veggies, potatoes, rice are all naturally gluten-free (depending on preparation).

Lots of times I take meat, veggies and sometimes potatoes and just heat it up in my cast-iron skillet -- all together in one pan. I'll sprinkle herbs on it as it's cooking -- basil, garlic, tarragon, etc. It's a simple, tasty, gluten-free meal.

I like fried eggs on top of Van's gluten-free waffles, salted with a little bit of pure maple syrup for breakfast.

It's easier to pass up all the food in the fridge if there's something there you like ... you probably really want the food that's there because it's easy -- it's already prepared. Find some easy things for you to keep in the fridge so it's no as tempting.

[JerryK]

... you probably really want the food that's there because it's easy -- it's already prepared. Find some easy things for you to keep in the fridge so it's no as tempting.

That's the problem. Everything is prepared! We are a fast food, instant gratification society. All this prepared food is what I shouldn't eat! My family's lifestyle is to eat on the go, we're all busy. It's going to take some time for me to learn to make the right choices.

j

[ArtGirl]

You don't (well you probably do) know how hard it is with all that food in there, to prepare something for myself that I know is safe.

I was thinking about how it must be more difficult for the typical male in our society to approach the challenge of fixing gluten-free foods. I'm of the generation of women who started off cooking, first at home and then later in marriage. Our refrigerator is full of left-over gluten-free foods. If my husband had to fix special meals, he'd have a very hard time.

Can your wife get on board, at least right now, and not keep gluten foods in the kitchen to tempt you? - she could go out to have her pasta and chinese. By the way, Chinese food is easy to fix gluten-free - just use g.f. soysauce and frozen stir-fry veggies. And Italian is easy, too - there are many brands of pasta sauce that are g.f. and the rice-based pastas are pretty tolerable. (so is spaghetti sauce over vegetables).

Are there recipes in Gluten-Free for Dummies that you and your wife can experiment with? Always make plenty of the foods you like so you can have leftover and even freeze some to take out when you're not wanting to cook.

[CarlaB]

That's the problem. Everything is prepared! We are a fast food, instant gratification society. All this prepared food is what I shouldn't eat! My family's lifestyle is to eat on the go, we're all busy. It's going to take some time for me to learn to make the right choices.

j

I hear ya!!! I have six kids and we used to eat out A LOT!!! Now I plan when I'm going to eat before I even walk out the door ... most of the time I end up making myself something at home, then leave.

You'll be healthier on many levels with the gluten-free lifestyle!!

[Guhlia]

Jerry, any chance you could set aside a full day and do some baking so you have convenience foods there that are gluten free? I have some wonderful, and easy to make, recipes that I would be happy to share with you. I make pizza, breadsticks, and hamburger buns all with the same recipe. I generally make a triple batch at a time and then make one pizza and freeze it by the slice, 8 hamburger buns, and a tray of breadsticks all from one mixing bowl. Chicken fingers and fish sticks share another recipe. Those things are all really easy to make in bulk and they are very tasty gluten free treats. Lasagna is another one that you can make in bulk. I have a relatively simple recipe for making lasagna from Tinkyada lasagna noodles. Turns out fabulous.

As far as convenience foods that are mainstream: Oscar Meyer hot dogs and most lunch meats, Mission corn tortillas for wrap sandwiches, Kraft cheeses, vienna sausages, Spam (double check on this one), Ore-Ida has a gluten free list, Kinnikinnick makes some really great bagels, Dora stars cereal (not very manly, but they're edible), Vlasic pickels (double check on this), Jell-O pudding cups, Dole canned fruits (check labels), Cool Ranch Doritos, Black Pepper Jack Doritos, Salsa Doritos, Cheetohs Crunchies... Hope this helps.

[JerryK]

Man I want a cookie. Sorry, but it's true. Think I'll take a trip to the local health food store and search for gluten-free free bread and snacks. j

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Okay--the prefab gluten-free cookies taste like dried out sponges and cost a fortune. For now, get Fritos, they calm the cravings, and then ya gotta invest in:

gluten-free Baking Classics by Annalise Roberts

superfine brown rice flour (Authentic Foods brand is best, Whole Foods carries it, or you can order online)

white rice flour (buy at Asian grocery for superfine griind and very cheap)

Potato Starch (Asian grocery)

Tapioca Starch (Asian grocer)

Cornstarch (any grocery)

millet flour (hard to find, but WHole FOods and some natural food stores carry it)

sorgum flour (my grocery store had that one)

The cookie recipes in gluten-free Baking Classics are so good, you won't be able to tell the difference between them and gluteny ones. The millet, sorgum, corstarch, and potato starch go into her recipes , and they are incredible--the submarine sandwich bread tastes like really, really good artisanal French bread, nice crispy crust, thick chewy inside! My gluten-eating family scarfs down everything I make from this cookbook.

I think her chocolate chip-coookie recipe is on her website, which is www.foodphilospher.com.

Ah--here we go:

Brown Rice Flour Mix

2 cups brown rice flour (I use half white whice flour)

(extra finely ground)

(or 6 cups for a big batch)

2/3 cup potato starch

(or 2 cups for a big batch)

1/3 cup tapioca flour

(or 1 cup for a big batch)

It is very important that you use an extra-finely ground brown rice flour, (and not just any grind) or your baked goods will be gritty. Authentic Foods