Should Celiacs Get Flu Shots?

[lovegrov]

Carol,

As to your original post, the stomach bug is not the true flu and the flu shot has no effect on it. he flu shot does not have gluten in it. In fact, ALL injectable drugs and IV fluids are gluten-free.

richard

[Jestgar]

I get a flu shot almost every year, and prior to doing that I have gotten the flu. Not some virus that's going around, but the can't breath-continuous fever-takes weeks to recover-flu. It is unbelievably horrible with hallucinations and the clear knowledge that you are going to die if you don't force yourself to take one more breath.

I suspect that most of the people who say "I got the flu after getting a flu shot" either had some other minor virus, or had a greatly attenuated version of the flu because of some protection given them by their flu shot.

If you've ever had a full blown "flu" you never forget, and you don't chat about it casually.

[tarnalberry]

I suspect that most of the people who say "I got the flu after getting a flu shot" either had some other minor virus, or had a greatly attenuated version of the flu because of some protection given them by their flu shot.

If you've ever had a full blown "flu" you never forget, and you don't chat about it casually.

THAT is the whole point of the flu shot. That the population, as a whole, may come down with other viruses, but the incident rate of severe cases of the flu - and hence, severe complications from the flu - will be dramatically reduced.

[Viola 1]

This from a Canadian government site.

Question 12: Do vaccines contain toxic ingredients?

Answer: The main ingredient in most vaccines is the killed or weakened germ (virus or bacterium), which stimulates our immune system to recognize and prevent future disease. Some newer vaccines are made from only part of the germ's cell (for example, a purified sugar or a purified protein).

In addition, vaccines usually contain sterile water or salt solution.

Some vaccines are prepared with a preservative or antibiotic to prevent bacterial growth.

Some vaccines also contain substances known as stabilizers, to help maintain quality during storage.

Some vaccines contain an "adjuvant". These substances work to boost our immune response to the vaccine and make it more effective. The amount of any of these ingredients in a vaccine is extremely small, and every batch of vaccine is tested for safety and quality in Canada before it is released for public use.

A preservative called thimerosal received attention in the U.S. in 1999 because it contains mercury and it is used in some vaccines for children. As a precaution, U.S. authorities recommended that the use of vaccines containing thimerosal be reduced or eliminated. In 2001, an independent panel of the U.S. Institute of Medicine conducted an extensive review of this concern. The panel found no evidence that the amount of mercury in childhood vaccines causes damage to a child's nervous system. In Canada, the only routine vaccine for children that contained thimerosal was the hepatitis B vaccine. Canadian infants were never subject to the same level of mercury exposure from vaccines as U.S. infants. A new formula for hepatitis B vaccine, with no thimerosal, is now available. Meanwhile, research into whether thimerosal in vaccines is truly a risk to infants is continuing.

[happygirl]

Tarnalberry, thank you for posting about the lack of peer reviewed journal articles. I think it is an important note to make in this discussion.

[acousticmom]

Carol,

As to your original post, the stomach bug is not the true flu and the flu shot has no effect on it. he flu shot does not have gluten in it. In fact, ALL injectable drugs and IV fluids are gluten-free.

richard

Thanks, Richard. I didn't know that, so it helps with my decision.

I should have known I was opening a can of worms (I know people on both sides of the fence myself). I agree that each individual ought to evaluate the pros and cons before deciding, and consider the sources of the information you use.

Tiffany raised an important point: Anecdotal stories can be very valuable, but they can also persuade us to believe in "conventional wisdom" that really doesn't reflect the facts (Steven Levitt's Freakonomics makes this point really well). Check out the claims you hear and pray for wisdom.

Good discussion. Let's keep it constructive.

Carol

[shayesmom]

Carol,

The decision to vaccinate is up to the individual. Since the flu shot is "optional" and not mandated, I would highly recommend that you make sure the shot is thimerosal-free. Also, since your ds is getting into the teen years, perhaps you could ask him what his thoughts are (maybe let him do a bit of research on his own).

There have been some excellent points made on both sides of this discussion as to the safety and efficacy of flu shots. Personally, my family has decided to stay away. Since going gluten/dairy/soy-free, we have knocked out many of the colds and the occasional flus we used to suffer from (I had wondered if anyone else here had noticed not being as prone to these problems after going gluten-free as opposed to placing all the value on the flu shot? For us, the diet did help and I wondered if anyone else noticed the same difference).

As for ingredients and fillers in the vaccine....they are gluten-free. But after spending quite a bit of time on different chemical sites (HAZMAP, OSHA, IARC, ACGIH, DOT, NIOSH, NTP, DEP, HHAG, NFPA, EPA....or other sites which have a Hazardous Substance List) and reading up on the ingredients, I can honestly say that there is NO WAY I would volunteer myself or my child for an optional vaccine. I wouldn't let my kid touch the stuff in these vaccines, much less inject it into her body. Perhaps it's just me, but after realizing the damage that gluten does to the body (and knowing it only affects a small portion of the population), I find it hard to comprehend how things like mercury, formaldehyde and aluminum which are universally known to be harmful to EVERYONE are somehow not harmful if injected in the form of a vaccine? On the chemical sites, there are strict warnings about these ingredients and their health effects. Many of these ingredients are known carcinogens (such as formaldehyde). Many scientists believe that there is NO safe level of exposure to a carcinogen....and yet, medical studies, pharmaceutical companies (funding the studies) and most doctors will tell you that everyone should get these shots and that they are beneficial. One chemical I found in the flu shots is a detergent (TRITON X-100). Didn't sound too bad compared to a few other ingredients until I read the disclaimer at the bottom...."FOR RESEARCH USE ONLY. NOT FOR HUMAN OR DRUG USE". It's really quite confusing as to who to believe on this one. And are we trading out one disease for one that is potentially more "lethal" down the road? I don't think we'll know that answer anytime soon.

Like Tiffany and Richard, I have read many of the studies which support vaccines and their "preventative" effects. There are way more studies which are supportive of vaccines than detrimental (not really surprising considering who has the money to fund the studies). But I am not "on board" with vaccines based on this information. The clinical evidence and conclusions of these studies change all of the time. Results and conclusions change as time elapses and new studies are done. We see this all of the time. Eggs were good, eggs were then bad, and now eggs are good. Butter was good, butter was bad, margarine was good, margarine (transfat) is bad, butter is good (again). And more recently....synthetic hormones for women....bad, to good and now bad again as they can cause cancer if taken over prolonged periods of time. I can't blame anyone for not being "on board" with the vaccines when looking at this ever-revolving list of safe/harmful substances and studies. Just what (and who) are you supposed to believe?

No thank you. I have but a short amount of time on this planet. I don't intend of being a guinea pig nor do I intend on subjecting my dd to being one before she is old enough to make that decision herself. It is her body and she will ultimately pay the piper on this issue. So I will hold off on the voluntary injections until she is ready and capable of deciding on this for herself. In the meantime, I try to keep things as "natural" as possible. We do take a whole-food based multi-vitamin as well as an omega supplement and probiotics. But that's about it. Anectdotally, this is "working" for us. We are rarely sick any more.

Good luck with making your own personal decision on this. I hope that you find what "works" for your own family.

[AndreaB]

Vicky,

Thanks for the well thought out post.

I have read much about the additives in the shots. Those are what cause people the most problems, including adverse reactions.

I only got the flu shot one year about 3 or so years ago. I don't usually get the flu. If I get something like it, it is short lived and over in a couple days. We've only been gluten-free/sf/df for 4-12 months (depending on which food). It doesn't seem as if we've had as many colds this year so far. Usually my husband brings them home. We tend to stay home most of the winter since I have a little one.

My father used to get the flu shot and always got sick. He hasn't gotten sick since he stopped getting it.

Again, it's a personal decision.

Dr. Blaylock had a study he talked about (done by someone else) in an article about vaccinations. Those who got the flu shot for 5 years in a row or more were more susceptible to neurodegenerative diseases. I can look up the exact quote for those who are interested. It's from one of his articles I pulled from online.

I found it.

A recent study by the world-renowned immunologist Dr. H. Hugh Fudenberg found that adults vaccinated yearly for five years in a row with the flu vaccine had a 10-fold increased risk of developing Alzheimer

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Vicky, thank you for the intelligent, thoughtful post.

I have learned so much about the dangers of vaccines; much of that, unfortunately, has been from either my own experience or my children's experiences. This makes it a very emotional issue for me; I am glad you are able to keep things so calm.

I agreed to have my two older children vaccinated on the routine schedule in part because of people who strongly voiced the attributes; not one mentioned any risks. The form I was given to sign at the pediatrician (AFTER they had already received the shots!) did not mention any specific risks; it only said that I had been advised of the risks (I hadn't). When I asked, "What risks?!" I was told that there weren't any risks excpet for the Oral Polio Vaccine, but that they had to have that form.

If ONE person had mentioned risks before my oldest child was born, I would have known that there was research to be done, and I would have made very different decisions. As it is, it only took one person (whose child had a terrible reaction to the MMR), and all she said was, "Look up the risks, there ARE some."

I am not anti-vaccine; I understand the logic of the theory of immunization. However, I would have given my children far fewer vaccines than what they received. I might have even stumbled on the idea of celiac disease much earlier!

Some of you--especially Richard and Jestgar--seem to be pooh-poohing the idea that there are serious risks to vaccines. And Richard, I do feel that you are being unnecessarily nasty and condescending to those of us who see the risks, I have not suggested to you that the reason you and your wife might have not gotten the flu could be the placebo effect. It certainly could be the case, but it is equally possible that the flu shot worked for you exactly the way it was supposed to.

Jestgar, I feel that you are accusing me of not having had the flu when I did. I am not "chatting casually" about it. I had a doctor-diagnosed case of flu; I was diagnosed 2 weeks later with bronchitis, and a week after that with pleurisy. I also had a grapefruit-sized, hot, red lump at the injection site that lasted 2 weeks. Apparently, this is my usual reaction to shots with thimerosal, but at the time, we had yet not figured out what I was reacting to.

I'm not telling anyone NOT to get the flu shot under any circumstances; I am saying there are risks. I wish I had known about those risks far earlier.

I have never met anybody who had such a severe case of flu that they were hospitalized. I have met dozens of people who have had bad reactions--one way or another--to the flu shot. Perhaps these things differ from region to region. Obviously, the childhood vaccines are different from Canada to the US.

I would also like to point out that in Japan (a highly industrialized nation with very advanced helath care), they don't immunize children for anything until they are 2,a nd they do not give the child multiple vaccines at one time.

I have been told that the US has the highest rate by far of autistic spectrum disorder. I am not presenting that as a peer-reviewed study, so please don't jump down my throat for passing the idea on here. I think it is certainly worth investigating, though.

Andrea, thanks for the info--I hadn't seen that one before.

[AndreaB]

Alison,

I didn't know Japan held off all vaccines. I had read that they stopped the DTaP until the children were 2 years of age and most of the cases of reactions were not a problem anymore.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

My information is not necessarily up-to-the minute--it comes from two different families, each with children, who lived in Japan until a few years ago.

Incidentally, a Chinese friend who applied for citizenship here in the US was told that if she could not produce records of her immunizations in China, she would have to receive "catch-up" vaccines here.

She did receive them (several, she said), and says that she was never told what they were for. She has no idea what the injected her with.

[shayesmom]

Dr. Blaylock had a study he talked about (done by someone else) in an article about vaccinations. Those who got the flu shot for 5 years in a row or more were more susceptible to neurodegenerative diseases. I can look up the exact quote for those who are interested. It's from one of his articles I pulled from online.

I found it.

Dr. Blaylock is a retired neurosurgeon who suggests that for any vaccinations you get for your children, try to space them out 6 months apart. That's one every 6 months. That's in his book "Health and Nutrition Secrets". He is strongly against live vaccines if they can be avoided.

The neurodegenerative conditions associated with mercury are much easier to understand once you've seen how mercury affects brain cell growth. A really good video showing how very small amounts of mercury can destroy brain cell growth is on this site: Open Original Shared Link

I found it particularly interesting that the video mentions inhaled and ingested mercury as well as mercury from dental amalgams. There was no mention of vaccines which I found interesting. It seems at times that this type of exposure is purposefully omitted as a potential source of toxicity....especially over the long term as effects are cumulative.

[Viola 1]

Have any of you checked for up to date information? The flu shots do NOT contain murcury ... at least here in Canada. And I believe it was supposed to be taken out of the US shots in 2003.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Have any of you checked for up to date information? The flu shots do NOT contain murcury ... at least here in Canada. And I believe it was supposed to be taken out of the US shots in 2003.

According to the official CDC site, the flu shot in the US DOES contain thimerosal:

Open Original Shared Link

I am not blabbing indiscriminately here; I have done research on this, as has my husband, who is a PhD chemist.

Thimerosal was not "taken out" of vaccines. Pharmaceutical companies were to stop producing childhood vaccines with thimerosal. However, as I've said before, US MD's are allowed to use up old stores of thimerosal-containing vaccines--and they do not have to disclose this to their patients unless asked directly. Even then, they might not even know the difference. I had a pediatric nurse insist that the HIB vaccine she was about to give my daughter was thimerosal-free--until I made her get me the package insert, where I showed her the ingredient list. She truly believed that the vaccines they received from the pharmaceutical company were thimerosal-free.

Since the flu shot is not considered a childhood vaccine, the pharm companies are happy to keep using it as a preservative, as it is less expensive for them that way. It comes down to being about money for them. I'm not saying that the pharm companies are not saving lives, but their bottom line is $.

[AndreaB]

Thanks for the link Vicky. I couldn't get it to work though. I have quicktime but it never seems to work.

[darlindeb25]

I think the public shows us what is actually going on. I can remember when there were long lines of people waiting to get flu shots, you never see those anymore. I have never gotten a flu shot and probably never will. I work for a doctor and I very much respect his advice. He says "no" to the flu shots and he says there is no way for a flu shot to protect you from a new strain, because the shot must be made from the virus, if it's a new strain, there is nothing to make the shot from. He also has never gotten the flu shot and as a celiac, he highly recommended that I not get it. I do not need a study to understand his theory.

I also do not think that celiacs get the flu worse than anyone else. I think how you react to the flu is a individual thing. As most are saying, the flu shots are for the type of cold virus/flu that people get and not for the stomach flu/virus. The difference between a stomach flu/virus and food poisoning, others can't not get a food poisoning bug from you, they can only get a virus.

[Rusla]

My 13-year old son had some mysterious stomach pain last month--3 episodes that were very painful, but different from how gluten feels. These he felt almost in his back. The doc gave him belladonna, which helped 2 of the three episodes.

We never figured out what caused those episodes, but at the time almost every family around here had kids sick with one virus or another. (Though nobody else in our family got the flu, so I can't say it was viral, either.)

So I'm wondering, is basic stomach flu worse for celiacs than the general population? Do you get a flu shot, or do the shots contain any fillers or ingredients that might be a concern?

Carol

Carol,

I would like to address the back issue. I have noticed when I get glutened by some things and I know one Celiac who was diagnosed with the disease because of back pain, when glutened. As per my horrifying glutening yesterday I had back pain with it, it feels like a combination of throwing your back out and being beaten by a 2x4 with knives attached. I have found some glutenings cause it and some don't with different intensities. Perhaps try to get him to keep a food journal and see if this happens again if it was something he ate or was exposed to.

[Jestgar]

I also do not think that celiacs get the flu worse than anyone else. I think how you react to the flu is a individual thing. As most are saying, the flu shots are for the type of cold virus/flu that people get and not for the stomach flu/virus. The difference between a stomach flu/virus and food poisoning, others can't not get a food poisoning bug from you, they can only get a virus.

I think this is the key point. As with everything in life, you make choices based on a risk/benefit formula. I risk getting [X] from a flu shot, or I risk getting [Y] from the flu.

I have asthma. For me the [X] is very nebulous and undefined, the [Y] is dying. I get the flu shot.

[lovegrov]

"I have never met anybody who had such a severe case of flu that they were hospitalized."

All you have to do is visit a hospital during flu season; you'll see them. Generally it's the respiratory problems caused by the flu that put people in the hospital, not the fever and achiness.

[Viola 1]

Actually, I lost my grandmother from complications due to flu. Someone decided to go and visit her when they were just coming down with the flu, but already contagious. A flu shot may have prevented that ... by that I mean the person who carried it into the Seniors home and passed it along to several residents there.

Please kindly remember, that if you prefer to risk the flu, that you stay home and leave other inocent people out of your decision. Grandmother couldn't have the shot because of an allergy to eggs.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

"I have never met anybody who had such a severe case of flu that they were hospitalized."

All you have to do is visit a hospital during flu season; you'll see them. Generally it's the respiratory problems caused by the flu that put people in the hospital, not the fever and achiness.

Richard, I did NOT say that there are no people hospitalized by flu. What I did say is that I have never met anyone who was--and I work in such close proximity with 100 people, we all know when one of our colleagues is hospitalized and why. The same goes for my husband's workplace, as well as the parents of the other children at our children's schools, as well as our synagogue. Nobody in any of those groups has ever been hospitalized with the flu--but I personally know of DOZENS who have had adverse reactions to the flu shot, and they all say htat they will not get it any more.

The people who are hospitalized with flu are usually either elderly and frail, or else suffering from something serious in the first place that puts them at risk from any common virus.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Actually, I lost my grandmother from complications due to flu. Someone decided to go and visit her when they were just coming down with the flu, but already contagious. A flu shot may have prevented that ... by that I mean the person who carried it into the Seniors home and passed it along to several residents there.

Please kindly remember, that if you prefer to risk the flu, that you stay home and leave other inocent people out of your decision. Grandmother couldn't have the shot because of an allergy to eggs.

Shirley, are you saying that people who do not get the flu shot should not go out??? Or did you mean that people who are coming down with an illness should not go to a nursing home? This would be the ideal solution, but impossible to implement, as you are contagious BEFORE you have symptoms.

Senior homes, like hospitals, are hotbeds of infections of every kind. Also, like hospitals, they are understaffed. Unlike hospitals, the rooms tend to be kept very warm and underventilated.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, there was a chicken pox epidemic at our local elementary school. I found out by talking to other mothers and a nurse from the county health department. THE SCHOOL AND NEWSPAPERS KEPT IT TOTALLY HUSHED UP. They thought that, since most of the kids had had the vaccine, it wasn't anything to worry about. Just think, if somebody's close relative or friend at that school had been undergoing chemo, or had another reason to be at risk, what a tragedy there might have been. Even though these kids had had the vaccine, THEY were still contagious to others!

My point is, the vaccines are not a magic bullet. Even if we put aside the issue of adverse reactions, they are not preventing the spread of disease. Yes, most of these students had much milder cases than they would have had without the vaccine--but because their cases were so mild, their mothers sent them to school, to extra curricular activities, and around the community when they were contagious. That is potentially a very dangerous thing.

Your grandmother may very well have been infected by someone who did receive the flu shot, and had such a mild case, they felt well enough to be out and about. The flu shot does not keep you from spreading infection.

I want to stress, again, that I am not anti-vaccine. I am not saying that nobody should get the flu shot. My point all along has been that in the media, the risks of the vaccine are severely downplayed; the risks of the flu to the average healthy person are exaggerated, and the flu shot has been very aggressively marketed. Nobody is spending big bucks to advertise what can happen when you have an adverse reaction to a vaccine. They ARE spending big bucks to sell the vaccines, and, in many cases, to FORCE vaccine compliance.

Shirley, how would you have felt if your grandmother had been forced to take the flu shot even though she was allergic to eggs? That happens every day. When my husband served in the military, he was forced to submit to vaccines--they would not tell him what was in them, and he was allergic to eggs and other things as well.

I have NEVER been asked if there were food allergies anywhere in our family when it was time for my babies to get shots (like, when they were 4 hours old). The years that I received the flu shot, I was not asked if I had any food allergies; I knew I had had an allergic reaction to thimerosal in an eyedrop 25 years ago, and have said it every time I have gone to the doctor--but nobody told me that it was in the flu shot.

Richard, you can put blind trust in the medical system all you want. But please don't shoot me down if I tell the other side of the story. My experience is every bit as valid as yours.

[Carriefaith]

If you are second guessing the flu shot try eating anti viral foods such as garlic and onions. I personally got the flu shot this year, but I also eat lots of garlic!

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

[Fiddle-Faddle]

If you are second guessing the flu shot try eating anti viral foods such as garlic and onions. I personally got the flu shot this year, but I also eat lots of garlic!

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Good point! I believe ginger has antiviral properties, too.

[plantime]

I get a flu shot almost every year, and prior to doing that I have gotten the flu. Not some virus that's going around, but the can't breath-continuous fever-takes weeks to recover-flu. It is unbelievably horrible with hallucinations and the clear knowledge that you are going to die if you don't force yourself to take one more breath.

I suspect that most of the people who say "I got the flu after getting a flu shot" either had some other minor virus, or had a greatly attenuated version of the flu because of some protection given them by their flu shot.

If you've ever had a full blown "flu" you never forget, and you don't chat about it casually.

AMEN!! I can't have the vaccine, I am allergic to eggs. I did get full-blown influenza for Christmas in 2003. I will never forget it, nor will I ever call a stomach problem the flu!