Celiac Disease, Gluten Ataxia And Candida

[Rachel--24]

Thanks for all the info, Rachel. I may post some of that on Lymenet....unless you'd like to do that yourself??

Gayle....feel free. I dont post there....but I'm an avid reader.

I knew when I saw all of you folks eating ice cream by the tons, that there were going to be some problems!!

Ummm...I think I'm the only one guilty of doing this...much to my Dr.'s dismay.

Thanks for all of this info. I was actually aggressively treating candida (diet/antifungal) about a year and a half ago. I got ALOT better but I realized that there was more to it and eventually gave up and just focused on the gluten-free diet....which didnt last long due to the symptoms raging back.

I frequented candida boards back then and still do....also read alot of books. I know how to go about it....but I'm not happy AT ALL to be back on this diet. I'm really worrying about losing weight. Thats the biggest problem for me as far as treating candida. The whole purpose of my ice cream binges was to keep weight on....and it worked!!

Also....another HUGE problem I have with the diet/treatment is the fact that my gut is so leaky and my digestion/absorption is pretty bad. I cant tolerate supplements at all, no vitamins, no oils, no nuts and my list of intolerances includes a great deal of "candida-safe" foods.

This time around I have Dr.'s helping me....so at least I have guidance from people who are experienced with this. Right now I've just started with the probiotics again so hopefully it'll go ok. I've had problems with enzymes in the past but I'll be adding those in next.

I think my Dr.'s are focusing on reducing the candida load and detoxification so that I can tolerate all the supplements required to support my immune system and build it back up.

Its baby steps for me though.

Thanks for the info. about Theralac. I've heard mixed things about Threelac so never bothered with that one. Theres alot of people trying to promote these types of products on the candida boards (many have financial interests) so I never know what to believe.

I prefer to hear from people that I know are legit and have tried the product themselves....so thanks for that.

I cant try anything like that right now (baby steps) but I'll definately keep it in mind.

[kalo]

Thanks for the good luck wishes. BTW, I sent off a check yesterday for some three lac and oxygen elements plus. Several years ago I was a part of a candida forum (before I quit the diet to look into mercury) and they claimed that three lac was overrated, over priced and didn't work. This time around I've seen tons more positive testimonys on it. Including a guy I've been e-mailing who claims it did WONDERS for his wife. At almost 58 with a life time of being sick, I have nothing to loose but my ill health and unfullfilled dreams. :-) Carol B

Good luck!!!

[flowergirl]

Any thoughts???

Rachel! I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY!

I had a rather unusual approch in getting to the bottom of my health problems. A few yrs ago I had so much digestive problems and was suffering to the degree that I couldn't function socially and were unable to work. Lots of brain fog and neurological problems as well. I saw a homeopath that put me on a Candida diet, with some herbal meds and instruction to eat lots of papaya (to heal the gut). I had to first starve the candida off its food source and then let time heal my gut. After two months I was healed almost completely and never felt better. My candida diet also excluded gluten insidentally. However I returned to my old habits and got very sick for another few yrs.

A few months ago I went back on the candida diet (without the homeo's meds) but it wasn't working well so I bought a bottle of Anti-Candida meds. I wan't to issue a serious word of warning to you all to avoid anti-candida products with ETHANOL in when you have leaky gut. It messes up your liver BIG TIME! Anyway, got rid of the candida and discovered the gluten-intolerance a few months ago.

I am not sure which condition caused what because it has always been so up and down and really bad. But in my opinion... there is a definate relation.

[Rachel--24]

I wan't to issue a serious word of warning to you all to avoid anti-candida products with ETHANOL in when you have leaky gut. It messes up your liver BIG TIME!

VERY TRUE.

Candida itself produces over 79 toxins. The worst being acetaldehyde.

Since candida albicans produces alcohol and acetaldehyde, it may also contribute to many other subtle dysfunctions, including general toxicity, liver dysfunction, nutrient deficiencies and more.

I cant tolerate any supplements that contain alcohol....my liver is already dysfunctional. The "aldehydes" casuse me problems...especially the ones in fragrances.

One of the people treating me put me on some supplements that were alcohol based and she instructed me to put them in water and leave it out overnight.....then drink it in the morning. Suppossedely the alcohol evaporates overnight. I havent had any problems doing this.

Alot of supplements contain alcohol which really can make things worse.

"Chemical aldehydess are best known as fragrances.... Ethanol, or drinking alcohol, is also precessed to acetaldehyde. ...the body has an enzyme which breaks down the aldehydes to less toxic substances. This enzyme is aldehyde oxidase, or sometimes, aldehyde dehydrogenase. Aldehydes encountered dietarily or environmentally or produced in the body must be handled by aldehyde oxidase metabolic pathways.

When there is leaky gut/candida....there is usually liver dysfunction, enzyme dysfunction and problems with detox pathways. The bodys ability to break down the "aldehydes" can become impaired.

[CarlaB]

It does not kill the candida, but PREVENTS the imbalance of the yeast problem. It's expensive, but you only have to take one per day.....and for many one per week will do. It depends upon how bad your issues are.

I'll try first to give you the link, but if it doesn't go through.....do a google search for Theralac. Do not get it confused with Threelac. Theralac is WAY better, in my opinion.

www.theralac.com

My doctor has me taking this to prevent candida problems. He has me taking one a day, but I see on the bottle it says one per week after a week of one per day. I'm glad to hear that it's a good product!! He also has me on another probiotic and Nystatin ... and a yeast and sugar free diet.

[flowergirl]

Thanks Rachel, I just realised this it the reason why I've stopped using purfume. I can't stand it anymore.

What are you doing about your liver dysfunction problems? At the moment I am taking a few drops of Gentian before meals to get the digestive juices going. It seems to work ok. I also started to drink Dandelion / Burdock coffee in the morning and that seems to make the liver happy. i'm getting increased and improved BMs (thanks to the bile flowing again) and my body is more able to process fats. I also observe less acne and I feel more energetic.

[Rachel--24]

What are you doing about your liver dysfunction problems?

It was nothing I could deal with on my own so I got some good Dr.'s.

My body is pretty toxic, I react to everything....including alot of supplements.

The Dr.'s ran various tests for things that cause these kinds of problems. It looks like I have Lyme Disease and then a bunch of stuff piled on top of that.

I go to BioSET treatments to help with metabolizing things like fats, sugars, etc. I have testing and treatments on my detox pathways.

They are trying to get my immune system less reactive and right now are treating the candida to take some of that load off my immune system and my liver.

I take some homeopathic drops to help my liver detox. The BioSET treatments are suppossed to de-sensitize me to the things I'm reactive to. My immune system had become hypersensitive. I couldnt take certain supplements before....they are just now trying to get me on some things...starting with magnesium.

I get tested to see if I can tolerate the supplement and how much of it before I take it.

They arent going to go after the Lyme until my liver is detoxing better, candida is under control and I'm able to take supplements to support my immune system. We have to build my immune system back up so that its able to fight the candida and lyme on its own and so that I can handle the antibiotic treatment I'm going to need.

I'm kind of at the bottom right now....trying to work my way back up. The leaky gut is a huge problem for my liver so that needs to improve before I can start addressing certain other issues.

Its one step at a time....alot of people can get into treatment and feel better faster but its more complicated for me because I react to everything.

[Emme999]

Hey, I haven't read all of the posts on this topic - but thought I would add something (forgive me if you've heard this before). I had a wicked yeast infection & obviously intestinal candida for over 18 months. What finally helped me was a no sugar, no grain diet, lots of probiotics, fish oil (3-4 teaspoons/day), and a 4 month run on Lamisil (the anti-fungal that is commonly used to treat toenail fungus). If you know that your liver is already having problems, obviously this isn't the way to go. But my doctor checked my liver function every month and I was fine. He said that he'd heard of people having liver problems with it - but had never actually seen it in his practice (and he was very strict on testing).

I know it's a bit out there - but you might want to consider it. I know that Candida is awful, and I had tried everything too.

With all my heart, I wish you the best.

- Michelle

[Guest holmsie]

OK, this is my first time "posting" anything, anywhere, so bear with me! Yesterday, during my ongoing hunt for information, this forum (is that the correct term?) came through my Google search. It contains EXACTLY all of the information I have been dabbling with most recently. I sat and read and read and then had a minor anxiety attack while trying to figure out how to be involved with the discussion-- with these people who were talking my language. So, I signed up through the celiac web site, but still have no clue if I'm doing this right, or if it simply won't work because it appears this discussion went on last month

Anyway, in a nut shell, I gave birth to my first child (Tobias) 10 1/2 months ago. I quickly learned that Tobias was sensitive to my breastmilk (no thanks to the MDs). I removed dairy, soy, wheat, eggs.... almost every food, actually, but no elimination/ combination has ever been "perfect." It's been quite a roller coaster-- learning how to eat, learning how strongly our emotions are tied to our eating habits, and learning how to put the health puzzles of my past into new light. I'm skipping ALOT of details, but currently I am gluten, dairy, and potato starch-free (I feel like a new woman, as this list is VERY short compared to earlier). I still don't think I'm at the heart of the issue, however, which lead me to my candidiasis research, and hence, here.

I would very much like to try a candida-elimination/helathy gut regime. I am overwhelmmed, however, by the possible ways of doing this. In trying to concoct one's own regime, there are a zillion choices of supplements, remedies, and dosage suggestions. On the other hand, in looking for a product where the work has been done for you (so to speak), I keep coming to threeLac, which makes me nervous because all the people tooting its goodness are also trying to make a buck. This drives me crazy.

Anyone with real results from threeLac?

Any breastfeeding moms who feel they have leaky gut?

[tian]

Rachael, Thanks for you information. I have almost the same situation as you descriped yourself, although I did all kinds of self test available online without any lab test yet. But I am pretty sure it is candida which have been rob my health in last a few years. Also I just found that I have gluten sensitivity a few month ago. After off gluten a few month, my skin itching and redness improves some, but irritations are still there, also other health issues do not improve much at all. I tried all kinds natural way for candida, and I have not find one which is gluten free and work for me. Do you mind tell me what cleared your candida? How you are keep up with it, just by diet? or by supplyments? I searched the web, threelac and primal defence, even candex have very good review, but they all contain gluten. I have not find one which is gluten free, also very effective for keeping up with candida treatment. Also which probiolic brand do you use. I tried Jerrow's 40 billion, PB8, and different brands, and I have not seen any difference. Is there any suggestion? How about enzymes, do you take any? I went to different naturapathic doctors and spent thousand and thousand dollars, and I have not find one who can help me, that is why I am on the mission helping myself. Feedbacks from internet are very help. When I read your posting, I could not believe my eyes, because I have been suspect candida is the root of problem, including gluten intolerence. One doctor checked it 4 years ago, I did not have any gluten problem. Also another doctor did a stool test and find that I did not have any friendly bacterials that time. With no consistant treatment, my health got worse and worse. Now in order to get my health beck, I have to deal with candida first. Please if you can gime me some suggstion. To find right products is the key. Sue

I never got completely better after eliminating gluten. Unfortunately, alot of us are in the same boat with regards to ongoing symptoms, leaky gut, increased fo

od intolerances and so on. It seems obvious to me that there are underlying issues involved when we do not recover following a strict gluten free diet.

If symptoms persist after removal of gluten, dairy, soy, egg, etc....and the list of "safe" foods gets shorter and shorter....in my mind there *must* be some other mechanism (or organism) involved in this process and continued decline in health.

I've mostly been looking into "triggers" of Celiac as possibly also being the cause for ongoing symptoms and failure to fully recover as swiftly as many others do on a gluten-free diet.

I focused on food eliminations for a very long time and I dont find other foods to be the *cause*....at least not in my case. I find that food intolerances are simply a result of a persistant leaky gut and while they *do* provoke a wide array of symptoms....they are also a symptom in an of themselves.

So w/out the presence of gluten in the diet....what is keeping the gut from properly healing as it does for so many others? I know that many will say soy or dairy can cause the same type of damage but I dont find alot of science backing this theory up.

Personally, I dont think its the answer. I think that we can react very strongly to these proteins due to leaky gut and therefore people with leaky gut shouldnt consume foods that are foods very likely to cause an immune response. This also goes for food dyes, preservatives, msg, aspartame, additives and a whole laundry list of stuff found in processed foods.

With leaky gut....everything that we encounter...whether its toxins produced within our body, or toxins in our foods..or environmental toxins...the potential for these things passing through the gut and into the bloodstream is high. We should avoid as many of these things as possible in order to heal...this means eating a very "clean" diet.

Its not a coincidence that many of us feel better following this type of diet. Its not a coincidence that eating processed foods make us feel worse....whether they're gluten-free or not. But *WHY* do we still suffer from leaky gut after eliminating gluten....and *WHY* are the symptoms hitting some of us even *harder* after eliminating gluten??

If I was to take a poll the most common problematic foods (gluten aside) that will turn up are these..

Dairy

Rice

Corn

Fruits

Beans

Peanuts

Soy

Processed foods

Starches

Sugars

These are also the foods that will feed any yeast or "bad" bugs that may have overgrown while our immune systems were weak.

I looked into Lyme as a possible trigger for Celiac and a reason for ongoing symptoms follwing a gluten-free diet.

Even though many Lyme patients do have gluten intolerance, leaky gut and food intolerance....I dont believe the Lyme is *directly* responsible for these particular symptoms....other than the fact that the infection is weakening the immune system.

I believe the common link may be Candida Albicans. A great deal of Lyme patients suffer from candida overgrowth....as do a great deal of Celiacs. In fact candida overgrowth is found to be an issue in almost all chronic illness....mainly because its opportunistic and takes advantage when our immune system is under stress. It can really take off when antibiotics are taken while immune defenses are down. Unfortuately, we take antibiotics when we are sick....from infections....so the chances for an overgrowth of yeast are high.

I have severe leaky gut, multiple food intolerance, chemical and environmental sensitivities and these symtpoms have persisted for 4 years now. Yes, I was aware of Candida as being a problem and I attempted to treat it myself for a period of time....through diet and antifungal treatment. It was during this time that I felt the best. However, I did not know whether this was due to candida treatment or removal of gluten from my diet....or both.

My symptoms did return when introducing all of the foods listed above.....which happened to be the same foods that feed candida and were restricted while on my candida diet.

I understand that candida occurs when the immune system is weak I focused my attention on finding out why I have candida to begin with. It may be Lyme Disease....I'm not 100% sure....all I know is that I've got problems and I'm not able to recover on my own.

One of my Dr.'s thought Candida might be severe in my case and I had a bloodtest for antibodies associated to things that are leading causes of leaky gut.....dietary protein, yeast, and bacteria. I had slightly elevated results for certain bacteria and dietary protein. I had significantly high antibodies toward yeast. The person who had ordered the test had only seen one person with higher results. My primary Dr. found the results to be very significant as well...yeast is clearly an issue as my antibody levels were 5-6 times the normal level.

I started researching Candida again and found some very interesting research that may be the answer I've been looking for all this time....I dont know because it appears that this research is fairly recent. I believe it could very important with regards to ongoing symptoms in Celiacs or those who are non-celiac gluten intolerant.

I've been posting about this on the OMG thread but thought I'd share it here.....in case others may benefit from it...and also to get some feedback.

So it seems that Candida Albicans and gluten share the exact same amino acid sequence. This is the same sequence which triggers the autoimmune response when gluten is present. Sooo....if this is true....it means that even if we are 100% gluten-free....our immune systems can still react to a candida overgrowth in the same way that it reacts to gluten. In effect it can cause the same damage and produce the same symptoms.

Candida, as many of us know, adheres itself to the intestinal wall...causing leaky gut. It seems very plausible that if we suffer from an overgrowth of this pathogenic yeast....our guts will not be allowed to heal...gluten-free or not.

Here is the info that I found in my research...

So at my last Dr. appt. when my Dr. was adressing my high yeast antibodies and discussing treatment he also mentioned avoing wheat, dairy and sugar...as these are very problematic foods for people dealing with Candida.

I then mentioned to him that I'm on a gluten-free diet due to positive test results showing elevated tissue transglutinamase and elevated IgA (Enterolab)....although I do not have the markers for Celiac Disease...

He then said to me...

"You know....there are some researchers who now believe that candida and gluten can trigger the same immune response because the sequence that triggers the attack is identical in both gluten and candida."

Sooo...this does not seem far fetched to me at all. It seems quite clear that the amino acid sequence in candida is identical to that found in gluten. It seems perfectly logical that if candida is present and adhering itself to the intestinal wall....the immune system will then launch the same attack it would in the presence of gluten.

Maybe this is a plausible reason for positive tTG seen in so many Enterolab results...when there are no genetic markers for Celiac??? This could answer ALOT of questions.....there are endless possibilities if this information has merit.

Any thoughts???

[WheatChef]

The thread you bumped is over 3 years old, chances are at this point that the original poster has moved on from these forums since then. That being said TY for bumping it! What a great little read this thread is and it certainly would have saved me some detective work a few months ago when I finally figured out the reason for the persistence of some celiac like symptoms even after going gluten free (coincidentally enough linked to periods of high sugar consumption ).

From what I've seen there's always a bunch of people who attempt to find "natural" cures for candida infections but most natural cures are short lasting or just flat out don't work. Your best bet is getting tested specifically for candida in your stools or candida antibodies (however as mentioned above the antibodies will not be present in the beginning). With this diagnosis you can get put on some systemic antifungals which work really well. For the most part there are great results with treating candida with Nystatin, Diflucan (Fluconazole), Nizoral (Ketaconazole) and Miconazole. The last two can be found in topical applications over-the-counter which can treat some of the infection but are no where near as effective as the pills. The OTC version of ketaconazole is simply nizoral shampoo and miconazole is found in many different athelete's foot sprays/lotions and vaginal yeast infection treatments. Don't drink these, get tested.

[cyberprof]

The thread you bumped is over 3 years old, chances are at this point that the original poster has moved on from these forums since then. That being said TY for bumping it! What a great little read this thread is and it certainly would have saved me some detective work a few months ago when I finally figured out the reason for the persistence of some celiac like symptoms even after going gluten free (coincidentally enough linked to periods of high sugar consumption ).

From what I've seen there's always a bunch of people who attempt to find "natural" cures for candida infections but most natural cures are short lasting or just flat out don't work. Your best bet is getting tested specifically for candida in your stools or candida antibodies (however as mentioned above the antibodies will not be present in the beginning). With this diagnosis you can get put on some systemic antifungals which work really well. For the most part there are great results with treating candida with Nystatin, Diflucan (Fluconazole), Nizoral (Ketaconazole) and Miconazole. The last two can be found in topical applications over-the-counter which can treat some of the infection but are no where near as effective as the pills. The OTC version of ketaconazole is simply nizoral shampoo and miconazole is found in many different athelete's foot sprays/lotions and vaginal yeast infection treatments. Don't drink these, get tested.

Nah, that's not true. Rachel24 is an active poster most days. And many posters have notifications set up to see replies that are posted to their threads.

Tian, I suggest sending her a PM if you have specific questoins.

[jerseyangel]

Nah, that's not true. Rachel24 is an active poster most days. And many posters have notifications set up to see replies that are posted to their threads.

Tian, I suggest sending her a PM if you have specific questoins.

Rachel-24 no longer posts here. I would suggest posting any questions about this on either the "Leaky Gut" or "Related Disorder" forums.

[cyberprof]

Rachel-24 no longer posts here. I would suggest posting any questions about this on either the "Leaky Gut" or "Related Disorder" forums.

Sorry, I meant the glutenfreeforum in general, not this thread. (This is the "related disorder" forum BTW.) But that's why I suggested a PM to Tian.

[tian]

Sorry, I meant the glutenfreeforum in general, not this thread. (This is the "related disorder" forum BTW.) But that's why I suggested a PM to Tian.

What is PM? I just find this site when I was doing research and I am new member here as well. I am looking for help dealing with both gluten and candida problems. Have visited at least 10 to 15 naturalpathic doctors and spent thousands of dollars. Also visited a few MD, and all blood work came normal. I am really disappointed at this point and I am keeping looking for solution by myself. Thanks you all for your input. Anyone dealing with or have dealt with the same problems? It will be big help if I can find rachael and see how is she doing after last 3 years. Thanks you all, tian

[Eric-C]

Starting sometime last year I kept saying that my gluten issues were tied to Candida after continuing to have good periods and bad periods.

I cannot do the Candida diet, I do my best but it sucks

I've been taking Candex regularly, stick to a good diet a few days a week.

I can't eat gluten but all my problems went away, I've gotten back to the point where I can have vinegar again(yeast loves vinegar), maybe have one drink per week, and eating out never bothers me.

I can't go have a piece of bread but I don't fear walking into a restaurant.

When I eat too much sugar or something else the symptoms come back, the foggy brain, anxiety, all of it...thankfully only for a day or two.

Candida causes leaky gut...leaky guy causes food reactions...I think if I ever truly fixed the Candida issue I might be able to have wheat again, just don't know if I can do the 6mo or so on the diet it takes.

I also think SO many of the posts on why you get worse instead of better when going gluten-free is Candida. What is the easiest thing to replace in our diet that tastes good?

Carbs and sugar....which feeds Candida, I bet most people's carb intake increases on a gluten-free diet, which feeds the Candida.

[cyberprof]

What is PM? I just find this site when I was doing research and I am new member here as well. I am looking for help dealing with both gluten and candida problems. Have visited at least 10 to 15 naturalpathic doctors and spent thousands of dollars. Also visited a few MD, and all blood work came normal. I am really disappointed at this point and I am keeping looking for solution by myself. Thanks you all for your input. Anyone dealing with or have dealt with the same problems? It will be big help if I can find rachael and see how is she doing after last 3 years. Thanks you all, tian

Tian, sorry, a PM is a Personal Message via this forum. I'll send you one so you know what it looks like. I don't have much experience with these issues.