Jury Duty Exclusion

[ENF]

I have received a notice to report for jury duty at the end of the month. I am on a strict gluten-free diet, and my condition has improved, but still have problems as many of us do. I obtained a signed statement from my gastroenterologist today saying that he does not recommend that I serve because of Celiac disease and complications including the need to have access to a bathroom at all times due to frequent diarrhea, the gluten-free diet I must maintain while serving, and peripheral neuropathy which makes it very difficult to sit for long periods. I have served on juries several times, prior to diagnosis which was before I got extremely sick. The last time I served, about 5 1/2 years ago, I took a large amount of immodium every day.

I am considering just asking for a postponement for now because I have other medical business, including eye socket surgery, very soon - and I do not want to risk jeopardizing this by being compelled to serve if my request is turned down.

Does anybody know if the courts would turn down a doctor's recommendation?

[debmidge]

My husband's Jury Duty note states the same reasons: digestive illness which requires frequent access to toilet. The doctor's note has always allowed him to be excused.

[larry mac]

Gee, I wonder if I could get a handicap parking sticker. I might need to run into the store to use the bathroom real quick.

Or maybe I might not even have to work at a real job. I could just get a note from my doctor.

Wow, thanks for giving me some cool ideas. We could use Celiac Disease for all kinds of excuses.

best regards, lm

[Gemini]

Gee, I wonder if I could get a handicap parking sticker. I might need to run into the store to use the bathroom real quick.

Or maybe I might not even have to work at a real job. I could just get a note from my doctor.

Wow, thanks for giving me some cool ideas. We could use Celiac Disease for all kinds of excuses.

best regards, lm

I had the same thoughts myself and I'm not trying to be rude but, unless you are in an active and irreversible state of Celiac Disease, there should be no reason to be excused from jury duty just because you have celiac disease. I took my own lunch last year when I served, had no trouble with the breaks that were allowed (they do not make a jury sit for hours on end) and actually had less problems with this compared to other situations. Piece of gluten free cake, it was! I just do NOT want celiac disease thought of as a debilitating disease that would make someone think we are handicapped or something. I was in pretty bad shape at time of diagnosis but recovered fine and lead a completely normal life.

Most trials are short duration so this should not prevent you from serving. You also may not be chosen.

[tarnalberry]

while I understand larry mac's sarcasm, I get the idea that you have other things going on in your life at the moment, medically, that may make it quite difficult. I would consider it totally valid to ask for a postponement for jury duty rather than rescheduling a surgery. Just using the diet as an excuse - meh, bring your own food. (I've done it before.) But it sounds like there are other factors that say "*now* isn't right, how about in six months?" If your docs are on board, you might as well give it a try.

[ENF]

I went to the court this morning and have been permanently excused from jury duty in New York State. I am sorry that my reasons are not acceptable to some of you, but I have served under great duress several times before diagnosis, including State Grand Jury. Many other people, with no medical problems at all, never get served with a jury duty summons - I have done my share of jury duty and no longer feel that it is necessary to go through the stress and put myself at risk for penalties and possibly jail time if I am chosen to serve and am late due to my stomach issues or other celiac-related health problems that I have.

Thanks very much to the people who responded with support. Good luck, Larry Mac, with your state's attempt to secede from the Union. I support this move 100% and hope it is successful.

[happygirl]

Please remember board rule #1 https://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/index.php?act=boardrules

Do not be abusive or otherwise out of line towards other board members. Show respect for each board member, no matter what you think of their views. This is not a place to quarrel.

[Gemini]

Please remember board rule #1 https://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/index.php?act=boardrules

Do not be abusive or otherwise out of line towards other board members. Show respect for each board member, no matter what you think of their views. This is not a place to quarrel.

Whom are you referring to? I thought larry and I had a valid response and were not rude or quarrelsome with anyone.

It is perfectly acceptable to postpone jury service because of ill health at the time of the report date. The first summons I got I did just that because I had so many doctor's appointments due to the recovery phase of Celiac. Maybe I should have added that in. However, after my recovery, I then picked a date when I could report and finish with my service. Is it a pain in the butt in some aspects to serve? Yes, but I still believe that a person should be disabled and have a hard time getting to the court before they use health as an issue for dismissal. Multiple health issues may fit that bill but I really get annoyed that a person would use celiac disease as an excuse to get out of jury service. Unless you have refractory sprue, I still fail to see why this would cause a problem. No one has to agree with me either but if you ask a question like that on a public forum, expect some dissenters and get over it. Celiac is not a disability for the VAST majority of people.

In Massachusetts, you have to have your physician write a letter stating why you can NEVER serve as a juror and the reason has to be a pretty good one before they let you off the hook. I asked the court officer during the wait until court time about it and he said so many people try to ditch jury service with health reasons that the court really had to clamp down. They also make reasonable efforts to make things easier for people. It really was no big deal to serve.

[larry mac]

Please remember board rule #1 https://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/index.php?act=boardrules

.....

OK hp, sorry. My apologies to you ENF.

BTW, I love your avatar. I use to watch the Rocket Man serials at the theaters on Saturday mornings when I was a little kid. Wasn't it great that he would just look down and turn his giant dial from UP to Down to control his flight.

Also, with all due respect, that nonsence about seceeding is our glorious republican governor's doing. I desperately want to kick him out of the state, along with his cronies, and take back Texas for the people.

best regards, lm

[ENF]

Thank you, larry mac, apology accepted.

Our courts, in NYC, get the worst of the worst including everything from the Somalai "Pirate" to the terrorists who bombed the WTC in 1993 (I was close to the scene when that happened, as well as the events of 9/11). I have served on juries and grand juries for things like armed robbery, sexual abuse of a minor, rape, manufacture sale and possession of controlled substances, assault on a police officer which resulted in partial blindness for him, car theft, breaking and entering, and other crimes. It is "interesting", but not for the faint hearted, to say the least - I am not put off by most of it, but if I am late or absent due to celiac problems, I do not want to be the one thrown in jail, and put on trial, myself. As I explained in my original post, I still have issues that make it very difficult to sit for long periods.

Jury duty is a very serious business, and I sometimes think that it should be in the hands of trained professional jurors, as it is in some other countries.

[loxleynew]

I have no problem with this if it really is an issue.

2 years ago when I went to jury duty (before I was diagnosed) people had the worst excuses. Like someone who had filled out the form in the beginning with his name ect, got excused because he said he couldn't read or write. He was like 20 something and I highly doubt this since he had to fill out the form in the beginning!

So your excuse is at least valid.

[Takala]

I almost always get a yearly jury summons. It is very uncomfortable for me to sit still on certain types of furniture for any length of time because of permanent nerve damage caused by arthritis. I go anyway and grit it out during the voir dire (to see, to say) selection process, knowing that I won't be selected anyway. After several years of rejections, I just put down on the paperwork that this state requires to be filled out beforehand, that asks if you can be "objective," my honest answer, and I tell them no. If the judge or lawyer then wants to quiz me in front of the other jurors or privately why I don't feel that I can be, I tell them.

So far I haven't gotten to the point where I had to go through that part again, but it will probably happen sooner or later. Some people's life experiences with certain things automatically causes them to be rejected. I seem to fall into that category. What was sort of amusing, was the last time I was called, they did not get to me because they managed to seat a full jury before my row was reached. It was a civil lawsuit concerning something that I had actually had some formal training in, so I could tell from the voir dire that the aggressor, er, plaintiff, just on the basis of the complaint, was full of it. Her smirking at the defendant and her smiling at us, the potential jury pool, and flirting with her lawyer was not exactly helping. (You can see the problem here, I'm a bit more observant than the average person on details) Here I was dreading the usual explanation and instead I could come up with a much better one- I actually understood building and construction terminology, and was familiar with the state law re: need to inspect a building and get an accurate appraisal before purchase, so as to get financing, and her lawyer was not going to like that !

I'm not fond of the process. Especially annoying is the part where they call off all these names of people who just don't bother to show up, period, but nothing ever happens to them. I live in an area with a lot of very wealthy people who have a lot of money and time to waste on frivolous lawsuits instead of just following the law or using arbitration, and I am dreading getting a call for potential Grand Jury duty, as I've seen some of those cases go on for years. I felt really horrible for the self employed small business owners who get caught up in these jury selection processes, as they must take time off from work, yet only make a few bucks per day and gas money, and the judge will sometimes lecture them on how it's their duty to go thru with it, when they say it's causing them a hardship, but it's a much bigger financial sacrifice for them than for somebody who works for a company that would compensate.

[jennyj]

My doctor's note last year stated "This patient suffers from sudden, unexpected bouts of explosive diarrhea. I do not feel for this reason she could serve on a jury." I laughed as I mailed it off waiting for the two-three week period of time before I was told if it was an aceptable excuse. Five days later I received my letter that I would be excused from jury duty and thank you for my quick response. lol

[Generic]

It's weird how some people get nailed with jury duty year after year and others like myself never have. (KNOCK ON WOOD!)

My sister has gotten out of it both times she was summoned. First time was it would cause hardship on the company she worked for. The second time she litterally had walking phenomnia (SP?). She sat there for two days before they released her.

I love Larry Mac's sarcasim. I know he doesn't mean any harm by it. We have similar twisted senses of humor.

[DingoGirl]

I do also love Larry Mac's humor

But I'm wondering about something else........

since I'm very strictly gluten-free, I NEVER have diarrhea any more. Ever. (unless I'm careless, then it's...........um......soft poo - sorry - but never a blowout or a problem).

So - ENF - I'm just wondering if you're well and truly gluten-free? I know there are other causes of diarrhea and loose stools (dairy, legumes, whatever the culprit for each individual)...

but just concerned that you're still having the D on a g f diet.

Just curious!

<I FINALLY FINALLY got a summons for jury duty, was so excited, and had already moved from that city. Got another one this year, but did not get called. I SO want to go. >

[Jestgar]

....

since I'm very strictly gluten-free, I NEVER have diarrhea any more. Ever. (unless I'm careless, then it's...........um......soft poo - sorry - but never a blowout or a problem).

I am completely and absolutely gluten-free, but there are random things that I eat that will give me instant diarrhea. Must always be prepared......or hungry......

[ENF]

I do also love Larry Mac's humor

But I'm wondering about something else........since I'm very strictly gluten-free, I NEVER have diarrhea any more. Ever. (unless I'm careless, then it's...........um......soft poo - sorry - but never a blowout or a problem). So - ENF - I'm just wondering if you're well and truly gluten-free? I know there are other causes of diarrhea and loose stools (dairy, legumes, whatever the culprit for each individual)...but just concerned that you're still having the D on a g f diet. Just curious!

<I FINALLY FINALLY got a summons for jury duty, was so excited, and had already moved from that city. Got another one this year, but did not get called. I SO want to go. >

I am gluten free, soy free (almost 100%), dairy free, corn free (mostly), and lentil free. The stomach issues are not that bad as long as I am not in a particularly stressful environment - including, but not limited to, being denied bathroom access. I also have mitral valve prolapse syndrome, with dysautonomia (also probably related to Celiac), as well as other problems both physical and neurological. I am not home-bound and have not pretended to be, either to my doctor(s) or the courts. Many people with Celiac still have symptoms, despite going gluten-free, and the experts still do not have many answers to this. If the condition was as simple as some make it out to be further research would not even be needed - but we have notyet scratched the surface of developing a comprhensive understanding the role Gluten plays in Celiac patients, or in those in the majority who do not have Celiac.

There are consequences for our diets, and I am glad to have survived 50+ years of undiagnosed Celiac. I intend to keep on surviving, and if I do not feel comfortable with something, as in an environment that is toxic to me, I will no longer disregard my instincts and try to cope with physical and/or neurological reactions to foods, jobs, people, places or situations which are unhealthy for me - except when it is absolutely necessary to do so.

[WW340]

I am completely and absolutely gluten-free, but there are random things that I eat that will give me instant diarrhea. Must always be prepared......or hungry......

I am the same way. Stress can set me off also.

I get called to jury duty all the time. I was in a jury pool for a big murder case that involved the death penalty. Luckily, the jury was selected just before they got to me. They were sequestered for 5 weeks. That would be a real problem for a celiac.

[DingoGirl]

There are consequences for our diets, and I am glad to have survived 50+ years of undiagnosed Celiac. I intend to keep on surviving, and if I do not feel comfortable with something, as in an environment that is toxic to me, I will no longer disregard my instincts and try to cope with physical and/or neurological reactions to foods, jobs, people, places or situations which are unhealthy for me - except when it is absolutely necessary to do so.

You know, I had a job, about 1.5 (or less?) years into being gluten-free, and now that I think of it, my stomach was a mess frequently. I think it was the stress from those wicked people. I literally walked out one day - couldn't take it and didn't care.

And wow, sounds like you really do have some other complications.

also, I think the age at which we are diagnosed with Celiac - the older we are (I was 44, but my lifelong symptoms were mainly neurological), the harder it is to recover.

[ENF]

You know, I had a job, about 1.5 (or less?) years into being gluten-free, and now that I think of it, my stomach was a mess frequently. I think it was the stress from those wicked people. I literally walked out one day - couldn't take it and didn't care.

And wow, sounds like you really do have some other complications.

also, I think the age at which we are diagnosed with Celiac - the older we are (I was 44, but my lifelong symptoms were mainly neurological), the harder it is to recover.

OK, now were getting into more of what I'd like to talk about.

The Celiac people of the world are survivors, unfortunately we often have to relearn and reinvent ways to do this because many of the old standards no longer apply. If you are dealing with a person that is extremely nasty, or "wicked", at work, you can't always just put them in their place as someone in the past would have. We are compelled by our conditioning, and rules, to suppress this instinct. Some medical scientists now believe that the human digestive system has it's own intelligence. Since we celiacs are extra-sensitive, and often scarred, in this area, the "brain" of our gut, it becomes understandably upset in stressful situations when we cannot always react in a fashion that is appropriate and natural, such as raising of the voice, employing other body language (I sometimes did both, lol), even running away, etc. Simply "letting it out" does not usually prevent the stomach problems, either. However, in a real emergency, at least in my experience, the usual stomach/intestinal disastrous reactions go on hold and one can function well as long as needed. In non-critical stressful situations like the ones we're talking about, such as bad jobs, jury duty, etc., avoidance is often the best option for people with digestive, and often other, disorders that interfere with well-being.

Since PTSD is possible with the brain in our heads, who can say for sure that it's not possible with the "brain" in our guts, as well? I think that it is, and for many Celiacs it's a reminder of what they've been through, and can serve as a warning to be cautious with their health, both mental and physical, in the future.

Hope this makes some sense!

[mushroom]

I can relate to gastric distress from mental stress, and your post makes perfect sense. I can remember in my teens if a prospective date was late picking me up from home I would be prowling the floor and intermittently running to the loo with the D, in the fear of being stood up! There does seem to be a direct link from the brain to the gut. Fortunately for me it does not seem to have remained from celiac or lactose intolerance. I have managed to force myself to become a pretty laid back kind of person; probably because Dh is the crisis one, I have to be the calm voice of reason and this has carried over physically as well.

I am sorry that you are still suffering from this kind of correlation. I think we have all been through the fear of not knowing where the nearest loo is and when we can get to it. To make this a little less heavy, (and irrelevant to celiac), on my honeymoon in Amsterdam, Dh was with me on the docks pointing out where Henry Hudson set sail for the Americas and rambling on the way he does; he turned around and suddenly noticed I was no longer there--hightailing it across multiple railtracks heading for the railway station loo, after eating an Indonesian ristaffel meal (very hot, spicy, did not agree with my stomach--I am a bland kind of person). Dh was in the same straights that night, and we were staying at a canal house with a loo on every second floor, and he was running up and down two flights of stairs trying to find an open door!

And my middle sister (who, according to her, definitely does not have celiac symptoms) on a ride home from San Francisco late at night after a dinner, was in such desperate straights, with no gas stations open, that we had to go to an office where I was formerly an employee but for which I was then an independent contractor and for which I still had a key, so she could relieve herself of her non-celiac symptoms. (Mandatory celiac reference to stay on topic!)

[samcarter]

I got called for jury duty twice this year. The first time I filled out the form asking to be excused, explaining that I am a homeschooling parent, have three children, the youngest of whom is 2, my husband works full time and his employer would not give him time off to stay home and watch the children. We do not have any family in the area who could watch the children. I got "deferred" for jury duty, and then they called me up a second time. I sent in my request to be excused, reiterating my reasons, and added that while ny MIL lives two hours away and would have happily driven out for the day, she was undergoing chemotherapy at the time. My one friend I would trust and who could watch the kids was leaving for a trip on the court date.

I got told that i should "Try to make arrangments if the trial proceeds". My husband decided to take personal leave time (without pay) rather than try to put our two year old in a daycare. As it turned out, the trial didn't proceed and was settled out of court, which was a relief.

If I hadn't had kids to worry about, I would have been interested in serving. I never have. I will say it never occurred to me that celiac disease could be a reason for being excused. At the time, I'd been gluten free about nine months, and most of my symptoms had abated, but I was still struggling with my health. I researched the restaurants near the court building, and planned to take gluten free snacks and my own water to get me through the day. *shrug* I can see how somebody with bad arthritis or refractory sprue would have had issues.

[JNBunnie1]

I went to the court this morning and have been permanently excused from jury duty in New York State. I am sorry that my reasons are not acceptable to some of you, but I have served under great duress several times before diagnosis, including State Grand Jury. Many other people, with no medical problems at all, never get served with a jury duty summons - I have done my share of jury duty and no longer feel that it is necessary to go through the stress and put myself at risk for penalties and possibly jail time if I am chosen to serve and am late due to my stomach issues or other celiac-related health problems that I have.

Thanks very much to the people who responded with support. Good luck, Larry Mac, with your state's attempt to secede from the Union. I support this move 100% and hope it is successful.

No need to be sorry. I think you handled yourself very well, and sensibly, and no detriment to you if others aren't able to do the same. Good luck with your eye surgery!

Edited to say: I've always wanted to do jury duty, too, but I always call the night before and I don't have to go in. I think it'd be interesting.

[JNBunnie1]

OK, now were getting into more of what I'd like to talk about.

Since PTSD is possible with the brain in our heads, who can say for sure that it's not possible with the "brain" in our guts, as well? I think that it is, and for many Celiacs it's a reminder of what they've been through, and can serve as a warning to be cautious with their health, both mental and physical, in the future.

Hope this makes some sense!

I've decided my gut has multiple personalities. I'll refrain from describing them all.

[Crystalkd]

I understand both sides of this debate but here's how I see it. Until 2 years ago I thought I was just dealing with Mild Cerebral Palsy and depression. Then comes the Ceilac dx and the gluten-free diet and the "depression" goes away. For the 26 year prior I was still doing all the normal things one does in life while dealing with exterme and constant pain. After going gluten-free alot of the stuff went away but the pain remained. My spine had SHIFTED and I was still walking and working. And then there is the fibro that I can't take meds for because they don't agree with me. Now add new dx'ed Addison's Disease that I've apparently been fighting for quite a while. I'm doing ALL I can't to lead as normal a life as possible from working to jury duty ect ect.

In a lot of cases. NOT ALL but a lot you have to decide that you will continue to lead your life and not let your circumstances beat you. Some times it means a shift. I've been on disability for several years hoping to be able to get off it and working to that end. That may end up not being possible but I'm trying.

My point is this: Don't let ailments get in your way. It just adds to the stigma. It's hard to be disabled in this country. Celiac in itself is not a disability. Of all the things I have to deal with it's the EASIEST to control.

I'm not putting anyone down just putting in my 2 cents.

(I say all this because I know there are many that have read this and not posted.)