Uprisings - Reaching New Heights In Gluten-Free Baking

[RiceGuy]

Hi everyone.

I can no longer hold back what I've discovered. Though I'm still experimenting with it, I think I've got enough figured out to post about it. The excitement is making me bananas!

While comparing the results of using guar gum to xanthan gum in breads, I noticed that guar gum seems to allow for a much higher rise. However, it wouldn't stay up through the baking cycle. It seems to develop "fissures" which allow the air/steam to escape, thus the dough starts to deflate. Further experimentation suggests to me that bread dough made with xanthan has to be very soft in order for it to rise satisfactorily. I've concluded that the elastic nature of xanthan is the reason. That is, as the bread rises, the xanthan stretches, and becomes tight like a rubber band. Eventually, the tension prevents further rising. But the softer the dough, the more it can rise before the elasticity impedes the process.

The problem I've found with a very soft dough is that it remains too soft/soggy inside. So there's a balancing act - get as much rise as you can without making the inside soggy. Never have I gotten very good results this way.

So I was then on a quest to find some way to help the guar gum not crack, but still allow the dough to fully rise. After many experiments (and many disappointing results), I landed upon something which has yielded consistently wonderful results!

The answer? Psyllium husk! Using a combination of guar gum and ground psyllium husk, the dough actually rises to 4x the original height! Yes, quadruple! And it stays up too The texture is amazing, with the average hole about 4mm in diameter (about the size of coriander seed). It's not soggy or gummy at all. In fact, it is firm enough for spreads, and does not compress into a dense gummy thing when cut or bitten into. Rather, it springs back up like a sponge! But it has a more bread-like texture than anything I've been able to achieve before. It has "tooth", so bitting off a piece actually feels like bread, not cake.

If that weren't enough, the breads I make are based on whole grain flours, not starches. So they're nutritious, not just a bunch of empty carbs. That being the case, I don't know if starches would even work in such a recipe, not that it matters!

While playing with different flours, I found some do work better than others. However, there seems to be quite a lot of latitude there. I haven't had to stick to one specific blend to get good results.

Here's an example of a blend which I know works:

2 parts teff flour

3 parts sorghum flour

3 parts sweet potato flour

The teff flour imparts an inviting aroma and good flavor. You can transpose the amounts of teff and sorghum. Additional teff will give the bread a more substantial crust.

The amount of guar gum and psyllium seems to be equal, at approximately one tsp each per cup of flour. Some slight adjustment may be necessary for some blends, but I'm still experimenting.

Add only enough water to make a nice, stiff dough. Stiffer than mashed potatoes. I think something like the consistency of semi-soft cream cheese might be about right, or maybe like cookie dough. The flour blend may also impact the optimal amount of water.

I haven't yet made a positive determination as to whether apple cider vinegar helps or not, only that too much seems to reduce the maximum achievable height. So if you add any, my suggestion would be something less than 1/2 tsp per cup of flour. Leaving it out has not ruined the results thus far.

As you may know, typical gluten-free breads are generally risen to double before baking. However, I have found that when using the guar/psyllium combo, optimal results are achieved when the dough is allowed to rise to around 3.75x or more. There is little additional rise once baking begins, but it does usually reach slightly above 4x, then it settles back to about 4x.

Something else which is different about this, is that the dough rises more evenly, instead of bulging up mostly in the middle. The finished bread is therefore very flat on top. But, the edges sorta get drawn in, creating a peculiar "step" around the perimeter. I find that giving the dough a slightly convex (rounded) top to start with is better than making it flat.

That about covers everything I've learned thus far. I will post more details as I figure them out. I'd love to hear how this method works for you! Try it and post back!

[jerseyangel]

Wow Rice Guy, that's an amazing discovery! Thanks for all of your hard work experimenting and letting us know all about it.

[Ahorsesoul]

I love reading about your experiments.

[Black Sheep]

That is amazing! How in the world did you hit upon that one? That is quite a discovery--you should definitely write a cookbook!

[Mrs. P]

The only psyllium husk product I have in the house is Metamucil. I wonder if that would work. I would LOVE to try this right now!

[RiceGuy]

The only psyllium husk product I have in the house is Metamucil. I wonder if that would work. I would LOVE to try this right now!

According to the Open Original Shared Link, their original formula has maltodextrin and citric acid. If it is too acidic, it can inhibit the yeast, and may also prevent the dough from rising as well as it should. I suppose you could balance it with the right amount of baking soda, but just what would be the right amount I don't know. My first thought is to test some in water, stirring in a pinch of baking soda, and watching for the fizz. Repeat until the fizz no longer occurs, and that would hopefully be approximately neutral.

[Mrs. P]

My package says sucrose and psyllium husk. I'll try it, but have to decide what flours to use. I don't have sweet potato flour, didn't even know they MADE sweet potato flour.

I'm new at this gluten free bread baking stuff. So far I've made volcano bread that had to be scraped off the floor of the oven after it just flowed over the side of the pan and kept coming until it finally crusted itself over, and various heavy flat breads, collapsing soggy bread, bread that tasted like garbanzo flour, and some that was fairly decent that could be used for sandwiches without toasting. I've also made hamburger buns and french rolls in my outdoor gas grill when it was too hot to have the oven on.

I have some of the King Arthur brown rice flour that is supposed to be very good but I've not tried it in bread yet. I also have teff, sorghum, tapioca, potato starch and flour and corn starch. Oh, and garbanzo/fava, millet, amaranth and corn meal, also masa flour. What would you suggest?

[Mrs. P]

RiceGuy - do you use eggs and oil? I really need to eliminate both from my breads. I have been using ground flax and water, letting it stand until like egg whites and just omitting the oil in recipes. Should I just DO IT and see if it works??

[Mrs. P]

Here is what I used:

1 cup teff

1/2 cup masa harina

1 c. brown rice flour (King Arthur)

1/2 c. millet

1/2 c. potato flour

1 T guar gum

2 T Metamucil (used double the amt. I would have used of plain psyllium husks because of the sucrose - not knowing how much of the volume of Metamucil is actually psyllium and how much is sucrose, I just guessed)

1/4 c. ground flax mixed with 1/2 c. water

1 t. cider vinegar

1 t. salt

3 T brown sugar

3 c. plus 2 T water

edited to add:

1 tablespoon dry yeast!

I'm guessing that I didn't use enough salt, but thought the batter tasted good. I used enough water to get mashed potato consistency.

After one hour at 375, the top is quite brown and crunchy, has a hard crust. The loaf collapsed a bit, down to just below the pan edge. Going into the oven it was above the pan edge. The bottom half of the loaf is wet and doughy. There are no pockets and no large holes in the loaf. Definitely destined for toast or french toast or bread pudding with the wet gummy interior though! The outer crust is done and thick and dry.

I think I need to use half the water that I used, and try again with plain psyllium, or maybe only use one tablespoon of the Metamucil?

The flavor of this is OK, but needs salt. I think I would use two teaspoons salt next time. This is the closest to what I call "bread" that I've come so far! I love the whole grain-y-ness of this and the thick crust.

Already I have nibblers taking slices and toasting it, slathering with butter. So much for my "healthy" oil free bread!

[sa1937]

This is the closest to what I call "bread" that I've come so far! I love the whole grain-y-ness of this and the thick crust.

Already I have nibblers taking slices and toasting it, slathering with butter. So much for my "healthy" oil free bread!

Interesting recipe! Did you use yeast?

I've followed some recipes exactly and have ended up with inedible gluten free bricks. lol

[Mrs. P]

Interesting recipe! Did you use yeast?

I've followed some recipes exactly and have ended up with inedible gluten free bricks. lol

Forgot to put yeast in the recipe above, but I DID put it in the bread!

[sa1937]

Forgot to put yeast in the recipe above, but I DID put it in the bread!

I thought perhaps you had come up with a real miracle!!!

[HiDee]

RiceGuy, you are awesome. I have always appreciated your very knowledgeable posts. Just today I was at the Bulk Barn and saw Psyllium husk, I didn't buy it but thought it would be a great idea to try it sometime to add more fiber in our diet. I'm so glad to know it can work well as a binder also! I'll definitely put it on the list for next time.

[Black Sheep]

Mrs. P, I made the millet bread and the g.f. beer bread from this site--both were awesome! The looked, smelled, felt, and tasted....better than so-called "real" or "regular" bread! Same with her pizza crust. Even my finicky hubby loves this bread and pizza crust, way more than regular bread, because with all those different, non-blah flours, it's just so much more flavorful (unfortunately for him, it's going to be awhile before I make any more, as I'm now on the Atkins diet ). After eating them, even if I suddenly were healed and could eat all the gluten I wanted, I'd still choose to bake this bread instead. Here's the link if you'd like to check it out: Open Original Shared Link

Another one that I'd love to try, but won't be for some time because of the diet (I'm now learning to make g.f., l.c. bread with almond and flax flour) is this recipe: Open Original Shared Link

Now I bet these bread recipes could be adapted using Rice guy's techniques.....mmm, mmm, good!

[RiceGuy]

My package says sucrose and psyllium husk. I'll try it, but have to decide what flours to use. I don't have sweet potato flour, didn't even know they MADE sweet potato flour.

I'm new at this gluten free bread baking stuff. So far I've made volcano bread that had to be scraped off the floor of the oven after it just flowed over the side of the pan and kept coming until it finally crusted itself over, and various heavy flat breads, collapsing soggy bread, bread that tasted like garbanzo flour, and some that was fairly decent that could be used for sandwiches without toasting. I've also made hamburger buns and french rolls in my outdoor gas grill when it was too hot to have the oven on.

I have some of the King Arthur brown rice flour that is supposed to be very good but I've not tried it in bread yet. I also have teff, sorghum, tapioca, potato starch and flour and corn starch. Oh, and garbanzo/fava, millet, amaranth and corn meal, also masa flour. What would you suggest?

That's a tough call, as I never got good results from starches. Incidentally, I should have pointed out that I used ivory teff in the recipe. Not sure how the brown one would work, as I haven't any to try. But past experience suggests they are very similar in function. Given the flours you've listed, I think I'd try the teff, sorghum, and maybe one part of the tapioca, with the remaining two parts replaced with sorghum. So it would be 2 parts teff, 5 parts sorghum, and one part tapioca. Please keep in mind that this is just a guess, as I haven't used tapioca in years.

RiceGuy - do you use eggs and oil? I really need to eliminate both from my breads. I have been using ground flax and water, letting it stand until like egg whites and just omitting the oil in recipes. Should I just DO IT and see if it works??

No egg or oil at all. Just the flours, guar gum, psyllium, salt, yeast, and water. Every time I've added oil to breads, it ruins the rise.

Here is what I used:

1 cup teff

1/2 cup masa harina

1 c. brown rice flour (King Arthur)

1/2 c. millet

1/2 c. potato flour

1 T guar gum

2 T Metamucil (used double the amt. I would have used of plain psyllium husks because of the sucrose - not knowing how much of the volume of Metamucil is actually psyllium and how much is sucrose, I just guessed)

1/4 c. ground flax mixed with 1/2 c. water

1 t. cider vinegar

1 t. salt

3 T brown sugar

3 c. plus 2 T water

edited to add:

1 tablespoon dry yeast!

I'm guessing that I didn't use enough salt, but thought the batter tasted good. I used enough water to get mashed potato consistency.

After one hour at 375, the top is quite brown and crunchy, has a hard crust. The loaf collapsed a bit, down to just below the pan edge. Going into the oven it was above the pan edge. The bottom half of the loaf is wet and doughy. There are no pockets and no large holes in the loaf. Definitely destined for toast or french toast or bread pudding with the wet gummy interior though! The outer crust is done and thick and dry.

I think I need to use half the water that I used, and try again with plain psyllium, or maybe only use one tablespoon of the Metamucil?

The flavor of this is OK, but needs salt. I think I would use two teaspoons salt next time. This is the closest to what I call "bread" that I've come so far! I love the whole grain-y-ness of this and the thick crust.

Already I have nibblers taking slices and toasting it, slathering with butter. So much for my "healthy" oil free bread!

Wow, that's a really large loaf! I think the potato flour, flax, and extra psyllium is what caused the problems you've outlined. It is my understanding that potato flour and starch both hold a lot of moisture, so if true, I have to believe that had something to do with the results you got. I'm not sure how the corn meal would effect the whole thing. Not sure of the sugar either, but I do know it is hygroscopic. I'd have to guess that the sucrose content of the Metamucil is pretty low, so I think you should be able to just use the same amount as the guar gum.

And yes, reduce the water. Again, it should be thicker than mashed potatoes. More like the stiffness of traditional biscuit dough, if memory serves.

I really recommend the sweet potato flour if you can get it. Unlike tapioca, it doesn't have that brittle/gummy consistency, and it doesn't cause the gummy/soggy consistency of sweet rice flour either. I think it really works very nicely, giving a nice chew to the bread.

If you're not certain of a recipe, I'd recommend using a only one half cup of total flour, and bake in a small pyrex dish. That's how I always do it, until I know an entire loaf will turn out right.

[RiceGuy]

Mrs. P, looks like your recipe had over 4 cups worth of ingredients. What size loaf pan are you using?

[Mrs. P]

Mrs. P, looks like your recipe had over 4 cups worth of ingredients. What size loaf pan are you using?

It's a sandwich loaf pan that I used to put 6 cup batches of wheat bread in. It has straight sides, rather than sloped, and I have been using it for all my other gluten-free bread trials.

I never should have wasted that much stuff on an experimental loaf. It did make really good bread pudding though!

My second attempt was a failure too. I did what you suggested and scaled the recipe down to use 1/2 cup flour. Got a good rise but in the oven it went back to 2X. Inside was done but quite fluffy and not sliceable. It crumbled too.

I got some real psyllium husk today and will experiment if I can the next few days. Our AC is out though, and it's supposed to be in the 90's tomorrow. So I might not be allowed to turn on my oven!

[CeliacMom2008]

RiceGuy...when are you going to give us a cookbook??

[RiceGuy]

OK. Before you try again, I will try something without the sweet potato flour, since you don't have that. Will let you know how it goes, but I doubt it will turn out as well without it.

[Mrs. P]

RiceGuy, where do you get sweet potato flour? The only place I've found it is Amazon for 12.95 plus over 8 bucks shipping. For one pound. I love to try new things but I am really not wanting to spend that much money! There is other flour that I see looks like it's white, rather than the sweet potato orange color, and is much cheaper. Is that what you're using, or do you have the orange stuff?

I am enjoying experimenting like this, especially now that I'm using just a half cup of flour! Can't believe I didn't think of that myself, I feel so silly. But, sometimes things don't work out as well when you cut the recipe down or double it or something.

Also, like I said, I have "real" psyllium husk now and can try that today, I think. Maybe the Metamucil is just not working the same.

Another thing I have been meaning to ask - do you grease and then dust your pan with rice flour? If I don't do that, I have terrible trouble with sticking. I'm greasing with olive oil, brushed on.

[kannne]

In norway most people have never heard of xanthan gum. "We" only use husk

[RiceGuy]

RiceGuy, where do you get sweet potato flour? The only place I've found it is Amazon for 12.95 plus over 8 bucks shipping. For one pound. I love to try new things but I am really not wanting to spend that much money! There is other flour that I see looks like it's white, rather than the sweet potato orange color, and is much cheaper. Is that what you're using, or do you have the orange stuff?

I am enjoying experimenting like this, especially now that I'm using just a half cup of flour! Can't believe I didn't think of that myself, I feel so silly. But, sometimes things don't work out as well when you cut the recipe down or double it or something.

Also, like I said, I have "real" psyllium husk now and can try that today, I think. Maybe the Metamucil is just not working the same.

Another thing I have been meaning to ask - do you grease and then dust your pan with rice flour? If I don't do that, I have terrible trouble with sticking. I'm greasing with olive oil, brushed on.

The sweet potato flour I buy is white. From what I've read, most varieties of sweet potatoes are actually white. I get mine from Open Original Shared Link.

To prevent the bread from sticking, I put a few drops of water in the dish (about two or three for the small dish), and drop in a pinch of lecithin granules. It doesn't take much. I let that dissolve while I make the dough, then spread the lecithin mixture around the inside of the dish with my fingertips. Then, I wipe up the excess with a paper towel or napkin. I think lecithin is the main ingredient in cooking spray.

I've also found that a few drops of oil and a pinch of guar gum works too. The guar gum doesn't gel in oil, but it just helps hold the oil in place so it doesn't run back down the sides.

Also, sugar tends to make stuff stick to the pan, even with the lecithin method somewhat. I haven't tested with the guar gum/oil method.

Unless you're using a light olive oil, I'd suggest something with a higher temperature tolerance. That may also be a factor.

[Mrs. P]

Success!

I decided that since we needed bread, I would use the mix I have made up from Bette Hagman's book, it's the four flour bread mix that already has xanthan gum in it. I have been trying to make it with no eggs or oil, the last batch rose but not much, and I divided it between my TWO sandwich loaf pans so I ended up with real short slabs of bread.

So, I used the 4 1/2 cup size batch, used flax egg sub and no oil, total of 1 1/2 cups hazelnut milk and added one tablespoon of the psyllium husk (not Metamucil, real psyllium husk). The dough was dryer than normal, dryer than mashed potatoes but after my first experience I knew that the psyllium husk would probably be absorbing a lot of my liquids. I beat it for 3 minutes and scraped down the bowl several times, then smoothed it into the pan, spritzed the top with water and set it to rise on my stove. Let it rise for almost a whole hour, in the past it was only 40 minutes.

I preheated my outdoor gas grill to 400 with the thermometer stuck into a hole in the top of the grill, and baked the loaf for one hour at 400, sitting on the upper rack of the grill. I brushed the top of the loaf with olive oil.

I've experimented with baking in the grill before and can get real good results so felt pretty confident it was about the same as baking in the oven indoors. Too hot here today to have the oven on though!

I lost no height, after letting the dough rise to just over the top, it stayed right there. I waited 10 minutes after taking it out to cut it and the center is done, good texture but perhaps a bit on the "gel" feeling side. This is tolerable though, if I can get bread that does not collapse. And, this is the FIRST loaf I've made in the past month of trying to make gluten free bread that did not collapse or pull in.

The only problem is that it's not getting rave reviews from the intended consumers. Ah well. I think leaving out the flax seed might help, it gives this bread an off taste, with the bean flours. At least that is my theory! I'm told it's great with butter on it.

I am ordering sweet potato flour! Thank you for the link to Barry Farm, their prices are nice.

[RiceGuy]

That's great that you got something to sorta work. I agree that leaving out the flax should be a step in the right direction. I can tell you, that I have experimented with xanthan and psyllium, and it still didn't work like it does with guar gum.

I'm sure you'll be pleased with the performance of sweet potato flour. I did some testing to see if something else could be used in place of it, and all attempts failed miserably. I think sweet potato flour is an integral part of what makes my method work as well as it does.

I'm looking forward to hearing how things turn out once you have all the right ingredients.

For the 1/2 cup test, you can use:

3 Tbsp Sweet Potato flour

3 Tbsp Sorghum flour

2 Tbsp Ivory Teff flour

1/2 tsp guar gum

1/2 tsp psyllium husk

pinch of salt

pinch of yeast (I never measure, but I'd say it is probably about 1/4 tsp.)

And lastly, just enough warm water to make a stiff dough.

Oh, when you say "...spritzed the top with water and set it to rise on my stove.", I hope you're covering the pan with plastic wrap or foil. Otherwise the top tends to dry out and crack, which leads to falling.

[Mrs. P]

I did some testing to see if something else could be used in place of it, and all attempts failed miserably. I think sweet potato flour is an integral part of what makes my method work as well as it does.

I baked two batches of bread yesterday, the first with ground flax and the second without. The second loaf was better tasting and didn't have as "slimey" of a mouth feel. The height it rose to is what it baked at and there was very little shrinkage or contraction of the bread once cooled like I've had with every other recipe I've tried. There is definitely something different about using the psyllium.

I am excited about trying sweet potato flour! Can't wait until my order arrives to try it. Meanwhile I have to use up this Four Flour mix. So far it was the favorite of any of the others I tried, but definitely tastes better with butter and eggs in it.