Gluten Sensitivity AND Gastritis? Maybe?

[LilyR]

I was wondering if anyone with Celiac or a gluten sensitivity (I just have the sensitivity) has ever also had gastritis? If so, what types of foods/diet do you do when having a bout of gastritis?  My dr did not say I have gastritis, but he also seemed to just want to chalk everything up to GERD.  And I don't even have that anymore. Years ago I sometimes woke up at night with sour coming up my throat, but once I stopped spicy foods and eat dinner earlier, I no longer have had that issue in years. but they saw some signs of it when they did the endoscopy, which I wondered if it was from a few years ago when I did actually have that issue, but because of that, GERD and gluten has been the only things he even seems to want to entertain.  So all he kept wanting me to do was take heartburn med every single day.  I tried it for a while, but it did not help my symptoms so I don't take it anymore. 

I seem to get symptoms of gastritis and thought before I call to see the stomach dr again, I could try any type of diet recommended for gastritis, as from what I have read, that seems to be the most common way to treat it, is by diet? I think I just got accidentally glutened, not sure how, but all the old symptoms have flared up, including losing a few pounds, which seems to only happen when I have had gluten.  But I also wondered if eating a diet for gastritis would help at all?  Or I wonder if I could have IBS along with gluten sensitivity, rather than gastritis.  It is frustrating when dr's can't seem to help much, although I guess a lot of symptoms overlap.  I hate to go through more expensive tests (which is stressing me out, the cost), especially since every time they do a test, the usually say it all came back fine (which is great, but doesn't help me help my symptoms).  Other than the GERD (which I no longer even have) and the gluten sensitivity, they have not found anything else.  Anyone else find anything on their own, or with dr's help that seemed to help, besides avoiding gluten? Or to help get over a gluten cross contamination episode any faster?  Any special foods you eat as you heal and get back to feeling better? 

[LilyR]

Hmm, now I am a little more confused.  Some articles I just read on gastritis mention also having H. Pylori.  Other articles on gastritis do not mention H. Pylori.  I believe when they did my endoscopy I did not have H Plyori, so would that mean I definitely don't have gastritis?  Maybe that's not it.  It could be more IBS then.  Who knows. Sorry, I know we can't diagnose each other, but it helps to hear other people's symptoms, diagnoses, and how they got better. Thanks for any tips anyone has.  (I know - go back to dr - but really, they seem to not seem to think there is much more to check and chalk it all up to GERD and gluten. )

[tessa25]

You can have gastritis without h pylori. I was diagnosed with having both gastritis and celiac, but no h pylori. For gastritis I'd go with a bland, soft diet. I don't know what medicine one takes for gastritis other than two weeks of PPI's.

[cyclinglady]

You can have gastritis for a variety of reasons.  If it is acute, it probably is due to something like a virus or bacterial infection (food poisoning).  Chronic gastritis is most often due to H. Pylori which can be treated.  I was diagnosed with Chronic Autoimmune Gastritis.  A recent endoscopy/biopsies revealed it (I did not have gastritis when I was diagnosed five years ago).  My villi had healed, so in my case, my gastritis was not related to a celiac flare-up.  

I take no medications for it.  You have to weigh the risks and benefits of using drugs.  PPIs have caused some serious issues for many people.  Google it.   I react (allergic) to many drugs, so I avoid them unless it is necessary to save my life.   With time and my gluten free diet, my symptoms went away.  I think the gastritis was triggered by a celiac and thyroiditis flare up as my antibodies were very high the previous year.  At least It seems to be in remission.  

[LilyR]

Thank you both for replies.  So it would be okay to try treating it with just diet, and it does not necessarily always cause problems, permanently? Like you can have bouts of it, but times when it's not causing any problems, or it goes away?  I too hate taking meds unless really needed.  My stomach dr had put me on a prescription for stomach acid, and I felt worse on it than off.  I told him I had not felt heartburn or had any GERD in years, but he seemed hell bent on insisting it was GERD issues. I even looked up the med website and it said not to take long term as there were no studies to prove it helped long term, or was safe. But the dr was going to have me on it permanently.  I just don't trust a lot of dr's anymore, which is frustrating. They push meds and over the years I've gotten worse rather than better (with other health issues).  

Thanks for the tips. 

[Posterboy]

On 8/27/2018 at 1:09 PM, LilyR said:

Anyone else find anything on their own

 

On 8/27/2018 at 6:34 PM, LilyR said:

My stomach dr had put me on a prescription for stomach acid, and I felt worse on it than off.

LilyR,

I found more stomach acid  helped me. . . not less.

The symptom's can be the same are often confused for each other but more stomach acid helped mine.

Doctor's don't even test your stomach acid these days.

See this string of research though the years.

IN 1979 Open Original Shared Link enitled "Epidemic gastritis with hypochlorhydria (Low stomach acid).

In 2000 it is now described as "Acute gastritis with hypochlorhydria: report of 35 cases with long term follow up" in this link Open Original Shared Link

In 2015 it is just "Chronic Gastritis" with no mention of Low Stomach Acid in the title at all in this research link (but still in the body of the text) Open Original Shared Link

where they still note in the beginning of their abstract quoting

"A life-long and aggressive inflammation in gastritis results in destruction (atrophic gastritis) of stomach mucosa with time (years and decades). The progressive worsening of atrophic gastritis results subsequently in dysfunctions of stomach mucosa. Atrophic gastritis will finally end up in a permanently acid-free stomach in the most extreme cases. Severe atrophic gastritis and acid-free stomach are the highest independent risk conditions for gastric cancer known so far. In addition to the risks of malignancy and peptic ulcer, acid-free stomach and severe forms of atrophic gastritis may associate with failures in absorption of essential vitamins, like vitamin B12, micronutrients (like iron, calcium, magnesium and zinc), diet and medicines."

This is bore out as an Independent Cause of IDA (Iron Deficient Anemia) in those with no stomach acid.

Open Original Shared Link

Not low stomach acid but NO (achlorydria) stomach acid.

You might want to watch your emulsifiers too!

See this article

Open Original Shared Link

Both Carboxymethylcellulose (CMC) and polysorbate 80 have been shown to promote inflammation.

quoting from the article on emulsifiers CMC and Polysrobate 80 as promoting inflammation.

"How emulsifiers induce these changes is still unclear, but the study offers a few hints. Microscopic imaging of the intestines revealed that the average distance between gut bacteria and the intestinal cells was reduced by more than half; bacteria seemed to be advancing toward the gut lining. And the feces of emulsifier-fed mice showed higher numbers of bacterial species known to digest and penetrate mucus. The feces also seemed to contain a more “pro-inflammatory” microbiome, meaning bacteria more strongly activated receptors that trigger inflammation—though it’s not yet clear which bacteria have this effect. Chassaing’s conclusion: Either the emulsifiers damage the mucus layer directly, leaving it vulnerable to bacteria, or they change the composition of the microbiota, favoring the mucus-penetrating microbes."

It is worth noting.

cyclinglady started a  nice thread about probiotics too.  if you haven't read it yet that is probably worth your time.

Posted here for easy reference.

https://www.celiac.com/forums/topic/122632-probiotics-may-contribute-to-brain-fogginess-and-bloating/

they make a strong case for the brain foggnness but I think bloating is more to due with delayed stomach emptying IMO.

Here is a study on the types of gastritis common in celiacs before and after a gluten free diet. It is kind of technical LilyR but it will be a good link for people to go back over and read when you/or others who read this thread have more time to read it in more detail.  So skim it for now and you can read it later.

Open Original Shared Link

Here is an article on the delayed stomach emptying (often called gastroparesis medically speaking and more common in diabetics) which can lead to nausea.

Open Original Shared Link entitled Treatment Challenges in the Management of Gastroparesis-Related GERD

quoting

"A study of the incidence of gastroparesis in 100 patients with gastroesophageal reflux showed 41% had delayed gastric emptying.^{Open Original Shared Link} The incidence of delayed gastric emptying in patients with GERD was confirmed in other recent studies as well.^{Open Original Shared Link} It is generally accepted that delayed gastric emptying occurs in 10–33% of adult patients with GERD.^{Open Original Shared Link} However, certain patient populations, such as diabetic patients, may be at an increased risk for both conditions.^{Open Original Shared Link-Open Original Shared Link}

And why you don't take medicine for GERD (thank God) especially PPIs you are experiencing many of the same symptom's like bloating etc.

See this thread that has a lot of good links on how to treat bloating and why being low in stomach acid can make bloating and nausea worse etc.

https://www.celiac.com/forums/topic/122303-extreme-bloat-help/?tab=comments#comment-995204

I found treating my low stomach acid helped many of my GI problems.  You will only know if you are willing to try it for yourself.

I went from being bloated and nausea everyday to burping without bloating everyday after treating my low stomach acid and doctor's just don't look for it any more today. At least not medical doctors, per se but functional medicine doctor's do because they are looking to first restore your bodies function(s) before giving you a medical solution (often) masking the underlying cause(s) as noted by this gastro.org op-ed to other gastro doctors.

linked here

Open Original Shared Link

Also see this post from dr. dana myatt if you want to learn more about low stomach mimicking the systems/effects of what doctor's treat that she describes as blind spot in medicine (without testing I might add) locking people into PPI's long term.

Open Original Shared Link

also see this article from gastro.org as linked above that bears out your experience PPI's don't help 50 percent of people but it is still widely prescribed as a front line medicine.

quoting

"Approximately 50 percent of upper GI symptoms are of the functional subtype and do not respond to acid inhibition. This would not be a problem if one could determine reliably whether PPI therapy was actually benefiting the patient’s symptoms. However, it is surprisingly difficult to determine whether a patient’s symptoms are acid-related by assessing their response to PPI therapy.³ The PPI test has poor sensitivity and specificity. The main way patients often decide whether PPIs are actually helping them or not is by seeing whether their symptoms return when they stop the therapy. However, stopping PPI therapy is associated with rebound acid hypersecretion, and it has now been clearly shown that this results in rebound symptoms, even in healthy volunteers who have never previously experienced upper GI symptoms.^4,5 This means that patients commenced on PPI therapy may think they need long-term treatment and remain on such therapy even though there was no original indication for it."

and summarized well when this was first discovered in circa 2009 but the treatments are still the same today in this abcnews article.

Open Original Shared Link

And there is another article/link I can't find right now that shows even when you have stopped a PPI like you have that it can still take many months for your stomach acid to recover to healthy levels and is really the point I wanted to make.

Even though might have stopped the PPIs currently your body still hasn't recovered yet.

see how quickly people recover when taking powdered stomach acid (betaineHCL) with a full glass of water (or always with a liquid) in this study on the topic.

Full citation entitled "Nutritional Interventions for Gastroesophageal Reflux, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, and Hypochlorhydria: A Case Report".

Only skim the full citation.

Open Original Shared Link

and here is fig1 that shows timeline.  study how quickly people recovered from low stomach acid for 30 years.

Open Original Shared Link

I can't say it will  help that quickly but it is good to know it has been studied and shown to help people who like yourself where still struggling with gastritis.

Again this is not medical advice just my own personal experience and research and I have gone a long way around the barn (as usual) as they say in my part of the country but I do hope it is helpful for your or the next reader who has the time and still needs help who's doctor's are not first ruling out low stomach (today) as a possible contributing cause in people chronic gastritis.  But I had I had a lot of ground to cover.

I must stop for now but I truly hope some of these links are helpful.

You can't do what you don't know.

It is not a long way back if you know the way.  Now you know the way I found the way back the Lord being my help.

***** Again this is not medical advice but I hope it is helpful.

I only know it helped me.

As always “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things”

2 Timothy 2:7 this included.

Good luck on your continued journey and God speed!

Posterboy by the grace of God,

[LilyR]

On 8/28/2018 at 9:45 PM, Posterboy said:

 

LilyR,

I found more stomach acid  helped me. . . not less.

The symptom's can be the same are often confused for each other but more stomach acid helped mine.

Doctor's don't even test your stomach acid these days.

See this string of research though the years.

IN 1979 Open Original Shared Link enitled "Epidemic gastritis with hypochlorhydria (Low stomach acid).

In 2000 it is now described as "Acute gastritis with hypochlorhydria: report of 35 cases with long term follow up" in this link Open Original Shared Link

In 2015 it is just "Chronic Gastritis" with no mention of Low Stomach Acid in the title at all in this research link (but still in the body of the text) Open Original Shared Link

where they still note in the beginning of their abstract quoting

"A life-long and aggressive inflammation in gastritis results in destruction (atrophic gastritis) of stomach mucosa with time (years and decades). The progressive worsening of atrophic gastritis results subsequently in dysfunctions of stomach mucosa. Atrophic gastritis will finally end up in a permanently acid-free stomach in the most extreme cases. Severe atrophic gastritis and acid-free stomach are the highest independent risk conditions for gastric cancer known so far. In addition to the risks of malignancy and peptic ulcer, acid-free stomach and severe forms of atrophic gastritis may associate with failures in absorption of essential vitamins, like vitamin B12, micronutrients (like iron, calcium, magnesium and zinc), diet and medicines."

This is bore out as an Independent Cause of IDA (Iron Deficient Anemia) in those with no stomach acid.

Open Original Shared Link

Not low stomach acid but NO (achlorydria) stomach acid.

You might want to watch your emulsifiers too!

See this article

Open Original Shared Link

Both Carboxymethylcellulose (CMC) and polysorbate 80 have been shown to promote inflammation.

quoting from the article on emulsifiers CMC and Polysrobate 80 as promoting inflammation.

"How emulsifiers induce these changes is still unclear, but the study offers a few hints. Microscopic imaging of the intestines revealed that the average distance between gut bacteria and the intestinal cells was reduced by more than half; bacteria seemed to be advancing toward the gut lining. And the feces of emulsifier-fed mice showed higher numbers of bacterial species known to digest and penetrate mucus. The feces also seemed to contain a more “pro-inflammatory” microbiome, meaning bacteria more strongly activated receptors that trigger inflammation—though it’s not yet clear which bacteria have this effect. Chassaing’s conclusion: Either the emulsifiers damage the mucus layer directly, leaving it vulnerable to bacteria, or they change the composition of the microbiota, favoring the mucus-penetrating microbes."

It is worth noting.

cyclinglady started a  nice thread about probiotics too.  if you haven't read it yet that is probably worth your time.

Posted here for easy reference.

https://www.celiac.com/forums/topic/122632-probiotics-may-contribute-to-brain-fogginess-and-bloating/

they make a strong case for the brain foggnness but I think bloating is more to due with delayed stomach emptying IMO.

Here is a study on the types of gastritis common in celiacs before and after a gluten free diet. It is kind of technical LilyR but it will be a good link for people to go back over and read when you/or others who read this thread have more time to read it in more detail.  So skim it for now and you can read it later.

Open Original Shared Link

Here is an article on the delayed stomach emptying (often called gastroparesis medically speaking and more common in diabetics) which can lead to nausea.

Open Original Shared Link entitled Treatment Challenges in the Management of Gastroparesis-Related GERD

quoting

"A study of the incidence of gastroparesis in 100 patients with gastroesophageal reflux showed 41% had delayed gastric emptying.^{Open Original Shared Link} The incidence of delayed gastric emptying in patients with GERD was confirmed in other recent studies as well.^{Open Original Shared Link} It is generally accepted that delayed gastric emptying occurs in 10–33% of adult patients with GERD.^{Open Original Shared Link} However, certain patient populations, such as diabetic patients, may be at an increased risk for both conditions.^{Open Original Shared Link-Open Original Shared Link}

And why you don't take medicine for GERD (thank God) especially PPIs you are experiencing many of the same symptom's like bloating etc.

See this thread that has a lot of good links on how to treat bloating and why being low in stomach acid can make bloating and nausea worse etc.

https://www.celiac.com/forums/topic/122303-extreme-bloat-help/?tab=comments#comment-995204

I found treating my low stomach acid helped many of my GI problems.  You will only know if you are willing to try it for yourself.

I went from being bloated and nausea everyday to burping without bloating everyday after treating my low stomach acid and doctor's just don't look for it any more today. At least not medical doctors, per se but functional medicine doctor's do because they are looking to first restore your bodies function(s) before giving you a medical solution (often) masking the underlying cause(s) as noted by this gastro.org op-ed to other gastro doctors.

linked here

Open Original Shared Link

Also see this post from dr. dana myatt if you want to learn more about low stomach mimicking the systems/effects of what doctor's treat that she describes as blind spot in medicine (without testing I might add) locking people into PPI's long term.

Open Original Shared Link

also see this article from gastro.org as linked above that bears out your experience PPI's don't help 50 percent of people but it is still widely prescribed as a front line medicine.

quoting

"Approximately 50 percent of upper GI symptoms are of the functional subtype and do not respond to acid inhibition. This would not be a problem if one could determine reliably whether PPI therapy was actually benefiting the patient’s symptoms. However, it is surprisingly difficult to determine whether a patient’s symptoms are acid-related by assessing their response to PPI therapy.³ The PPI test has poor sensitivity and specificity. The main way patients often decide whether PPIs are actually helping them or not is by seeing whether their symptoms return when they stop the therapy. However, stopping PPI therapy is associated with rebound acid hypersecretion, and it has now been clearly shown that this results in rebound symptoms, even in healthy volunteers who have never previously experienced upper GI symptoms.^4,5 This means that patients commenced on PPI therapy may think they need long-term treatment and remain on such therapy even though there was no original indication for it."

and summarized well when this was first discovered in circa 2009 but the treatments are still the same today in this abcnews article.

Open Original Shared Link

And there is another article/link I can't find right now that shows even when you have stopped a PPI like you have that it can still take many months for your stomach acid to recover to healthy levels and is really the point I wanted to make.

Even though might have stopped the PPIs currently your body still hasn't recovered yet.

see how quickly people recover when taking powdered stomach acid (betaineHCL) with a full glass of water (or always with a liquid) in this study on the topic.

Full citation entitled "Nutritional Interventions for Gastroesophageal Reflux, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, and Hypochlorhydria: A Case Report".

Only skim the full citation.

Open Original Shared Link

and here is fig1 that shows timeline.  study how quickly people recovered from low stomach acid for 30 years.

Open Original Shared Link

I can't say it will  help that quickly but it is good to know it has been studied and shown to help people who like yourself where still struggling with gastritis.

Again this is not medical advice just my own personal experience and research and I have gone a long way around the barn (as usual) as they say in my part of the country but I do hope it is helpful for your or the next reader who has the time and still needs help who's doctor's are not first ruling out low stomach (today) as a possible contributing cause in people chronic gastritis.  But I had I had a lot of ground to cover.

I must stop for now but I truly hope some of these links are helpful.

You can't do what you don't know.

It is not a long way back if you know the way.  Now you know the way I found the way back the Lord being my help.

***** Again this is not medical advice but I hope it is helpful.

I only know it helped me.

As always “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things”

2 Timothy 2:7 this included.

Good luck on your continued journey and God speed!

Posterboy by the grace of God,

Thanks for the info and the article on the gastritis.  I feel miserable right now, so will read it later.  I got some very good info from you on the whole stomach acid thing.  It was very reassuring to read all the info you provided because it confirmed what I had been experiencing and feeling, and I knew I was not liking the dr's suggestion to remain on those acid reducers long term.  It was not helping, and I swear, even hurting. Thanks for helping with that. 

[ch88]

I don't know much about Gerd in particular.

I know for h pryori I have found information online that L-glutamine and apple cider vinegar could help.  Also avoiding alchohol, to rich foods and eating lots of colored vegetables. Some of these things may help for GERD.

Apple cider vinegar or baking soda are used raise raise PH in the stomach (ie make it more alkaline). I don't know if this is relevant to GERD or not. 

Mint tea slows down stomach contractions and helps with the symptoms of IBS.

You can google IGG antibodies and IBS. An elimination diet may be helpful.