Hyperventilation And Heart Flip Flops

[Guest Kathy Ann]

I've mentioned this before, but it's really a problem with me. Since my heart and bloodwork are OK, my naturopath believes that my heart flops must be due to 'still' eating things I'm allergic to. I'm REALLY trying to be careful. Anybody else have heart flip flops and/or hyperventilation as their primary symptoms with their gluten and other food intolerances. Did they go away? How long did it take?

[Ursa Major]

My heart palpitations have decreased since being treated for adrenal burnout and hypothyroidism. Also, it is possible that your levels of potassium and/or magnesium could be low, which can also cause palpitations.

I don't know what could cause you to hyperventilate. With me only fear or extreme pain would cause that.

[Guest Kathy Ann]

Thanks for the input, Ursula.

My bloodwork, according to my naturopath who interprets it above and beyond normal thoroughness, my levels are OK.

[CarlaB]

I used to hyperventilate, but don't anymore. I don't think it had to do with going gluten-free because it went away before I went gluten-free.

I also get the heart palpitations. Doesn't seem to be related to the gluten either ... it gets worse with red wine or caffeine, though.

I'm being tested for Lyme Disease and I know the heart palpitations can be due to that.

[georgie]

I seem to remember reading of lots getting heart palps with Armour and its when there adrenals are weak and fatigued. Check with your Dr if worried but also check adrenal function.

[2kids4me]

You can have premature atrial beats induced by fatigue or stress. I get them and have had them recorded on an ECG, it is 'benign" - meaning there is no heart disease.

I'll be doing stuff or just sitting and then - pound, normal beats - pound - pound - normal for several beats - this can go on for minutes or for 8 hours

Premature atrial contractions (PACs or PABs for premature atrial beats) are atrial beats that occur too early due to an abnormal electrical signal. Often, things such as caffeine, alcohol, medications (especially decongestants), certain medical conditions such as hyperthyroidism, anemia, and hypertension, and stress can trigger PACs. Some people may feel a fluttering in their hearts when experiencing PACs, whereas others have no symptoms. PACs are benign and may require no treatment.

Open Original Shared Link

What are really felt are not the premature beats themselves but rather the forceful beat that follows the pause after the premature beat. During the pause, the heart has more time to fill with blood making the next beat more forceful.

Does this sound like what you experience?

I have seen chinese medicine advertising herbs that will help ceratin arrythmias - but check with your naturopath and ask someone who knows your state of health etc.

[Guest Kathy Ann]

Thanks!

Yes, through researching the internet I had already concluded that they are PACS. Mine are very forceful and cause my body to instantly go into fight or flight.

I still think celiac lies at the core of the problem, though.

[rutland]

Thanks!

Yes, through researching the internet I had already concluded that they are PACS. Mine are very forceful and cause my body to instantly go into fight or flight. This results in panic, hyperventilation, dizziness, wobbly legs and sometimes days of debilitation whenever they occur. I sure would like to get rid of them.

I still think celiac lies at the core of the problem, though. I think my years of undiagnosed food intolerances have put my body under constant excessive stress, triggered my adrenal glands to overproduce stress hormones and viola! PACS. That's my theory anyway.

I'm hoping that if I can completely stop any consumption of any of my allergies long enough, maybe this chain of events will stop happening. That would sure be nice. I was just wondering if anyone else had gone through this or noticed a similar pattern with their celiac disease.

Hi Kathy Ann. I had the same thing with the heart palps and esp. hyperventilation. I seriously thought I had asthma. I just kept having to take deep breaths because I wasnt getting enough air, my lungs felt like they had to work so hard just to feel oxygenated. When I went gluten-free this past summer that gradually went away.

In fact Im so glad I read this post because I forgot that I ever struggled with that problem, I guess Im too busy worrying about when Ill be 100%, I still have some more healing to do.

But looking back I know that the hyperventillaition was due to eating foods that I was intolerant to, so far gluten, and yeast are the main culprits but I know that there are others that I am sensitive to. Also, if the intestines are not healed completely then you may not be absorbing adequete amounts of important minerals like iron which is involved in carring oxygen to all your tissues. Are you cold a lot? I am.

[Guest Kathy Ann]

Yes, I'm cold a lot too.

[Elsbels]

Two of my symptoms after ingesting gluten are heart palps and shortness of breath. As a matter of fact, I had this going on for a couple of years before I developed intestinal trouble. Since I'm a vegetarian I had some blood work done to make sure I wasn't suffering from an iron or B vitamin deficiency. Tests came back indicating I was healthy as a horse! I have found that taking cal/mag supplements makes a big difference. Caffeine will make my symptoms worse.

Elizabeth

[georgie]

Kathy Ann, This statement makes me puzzled.

I have been checked over and over again, even using the newest test result opinions on my thyroid and I'm not hypo or hyper. It looks like it sometimes, but I'm not. And my adrenals ARE stressed, but HYPERactive rather than hypo. So maybe it is all related to stress in my case. It's a puzzle.

Do you mean your Thyroid levels go hyper sometimes and hypo othertimes ? Hashimotos Thyroid does that. The labs are nearly useless once the Antibodies are found - as the TSH goes up and down as the Thyroid dies.And Adrenals can go hyper if you are stressed at the time of the test. Was it a blood test ?Once again - the levels can change and appear abnormal high as its a sign that they are weak and working strangely.

[Guest Kathy Ann]

Georgie,

No, I mean that I have had sophisticated thyroid blood and saliva tests even beyond the regular kind and they always come back as normal, neither hyper or hypo. I have a lot of symptoms that would sure make one think I did have thyroid problems, but I guess I just don't. And my adrenal glands aren't worn out either. On the contrary, they put out excessive amounts of stress hormones.

Elsbels,

Yeah, I've tested normal on my B12 and iron consistently. That's one of the first things they thought of. Chocolate (caffeine) might bother me, but it's not clear.

Stef74 and CarlaB,

It's a real encouragement to me to hear when people have maybe overcome this problem with diet diligence and time. Thanks for sharing!

[Rachel--24]

I seem to remember reading of lots getting heart palps with Armour and its when there adrenals are weak and fatigued. Check with your Dr if worried but also check adrenal function.

You can get heart palps on *any* thyroid medication....if the dose is too high. I take Armour and I dont have problems because my dose is correct. I have weak adrenals from Lyme Disease...I dont get heart palps from the adrenals being weak.

Heart palps were a big problem for me when my Lyme symptoms began....they've settled down since then. Every once in a while it will happen...accompanied with a hot flash or some sweating....shortness of breath. It doesnt happen very often though....thankfully.

[georgie]

You can get heart palps on *any* thyroid medication....if the dose is too high. I take Armour and I dont have problems because my dose is correct. I have weak adrenals from Lyme Disease...I dont get heart palps from the adrenals being weak.

Lots of folks get heart palps when taking Armour and trying to increase to the correct dose which is when the pm temp is normal, and the Hypo symptoms go away. Therefore lots never get to take the correct amount. Weak adrenals give heart palps and that is common with Hypo folk. So correcting the weak adrenals allows more Armour to be used to rid the person of Hypo symptoms and not leave them undermedicated. Most of the people I talk with need 4 - 6 grains of Armour to get rid of Hypo, but along the way they had to treat their weak adrenals for a while so that could keep increasing the Armour. Many Drs don't understand this and say thatArmour makes you hyper. It can ...but at 2 or 3 grains those symptoms are more likely to be low adrenals shouting.

No, I mean that I have had sophisticated thyroid blood and saliva tests even beyond the regular kind and they always come back as normal, neither hyper or hypo. I have a lot of symptoms that would sure make one think I did have thyroid problems, but I guess I just don't. And my adrenal glands aren't worn out either. On the contrary, they put out excessive amounts of stress hormones.

Hmm. Generally haave found that folk that suspect Thyroid have good reason to. Have you checked those results with another Dr or DO. One that specialises ? Sometimes Hypo can be missed by the best Drs. They did for me for 30 years. Thyroid Antibodies blood test throws about 10% false negative. Thats why you need a Dr that understands Thyroid intuitively. And high cortisol isn't good either and is a symptom that should not be ignored. That may be giving your the heart palps. The body chemistry isn't 'right'. Hypo can do that ....

[Rachel--24]

Most of the people I talk with need 4 - 6 grains of Armour to get rid of Hypo, but along the way they had to treat their weak adrenals for a while so that could keep increasing the Armour. Many Drs don't understand this and say thatArmour makes you hyper. It can ...but at 2 or 3 grains those symptoms are more likely to be low adrenals shouting.

When I took 3 grains of Armour the heart palps were most definately from too much Armour. 6 grains would probably put me in the hospital or something. My correct dose is 1 1/2 grains. I dont have thyroid function due to RAI....and STILL even with NO thyroid gland...3 grains would be WAY too high for me.

According to all the tests I have low adrenal function...but I'm not getting heart palps. Everyone is different. Not everyone needs 4-6 grains of Armour (I dont), not everyone gets heart palps when increasing the dose (I dont) and not everyone gets heart palps from weak adrenals (I dont).

[georgie]

When I took 3 grains of Armour the heart palps were most definately from too much Armour.

How did you find that out ? Its a very common situation at 3 grains to have that effect and its a low adrenal symptom. The adrenals if weak can't cope with all the good Armour floating around.

A normal Thyroid produces about 8 - 10 grains equiv I think. So as you have no function I can't believe that you are optimised at 1 1/2 grains. Ave dose is 2 - 3 grains.That is on the Armour web site as a pdf for Drs to read. People with no thyroid at all need a replacement dose.

Have you done your research on this. All the Thyroid lists say similar to this.Hate to think you are ill because of not an optimal Thyroid.Without a healthy Thyroid no one ever feels well.

[Rachel--24]

How did you find that out ? Its a very common situation at 3 grains to have that effect and its a low adrenal symptom. The adrenals if weak can't cope with all the good Armour floating around.

A normal Thyroid produces about 8 - 10 grains equiv I think. So as you have no function I can't believe that you are optimised at 1 1/2 grains. Ave dose is 2 - 3 grains.That is on the Armour web site as a pdf for Drs to read. People with no thyroid at all need a replacement dose.

Have you done your research on this. All the Thyroid lists say similar to this.Hate to think you are ill because of not an optimal Thyroid.Without a healthy Thyroid no one ever feels well.

Georgie...if I were that undertreated I would be dragging around.

Of all my symptoms...fatigue is not one of them. I have good energy, my hair isnt dry, my skin isnt dry. My labs are normal.

Believe me, I *know* what its like to be Hypo. About a month after RAI my TSH went up to 26.5. I was Hypo and I had the symptoms.

My labs reflect my dose changes. If I go too high I recognize the symptoms of hyperthyroid (because I had Graves)....the labs will correspond with my symptoms and show that I'm hyper.

I *know* what my correct dose is...and I dont have Hypo or Hyper symptoms.

I spent about a year and a half researching this....so yeah....I do have some knowledge about thyroid.

I also feel that I'm very in-tuned with my body and came to realize that I was barking up the wrong tree with the thyroid. My dose is fine...my labs are fine and there is no indication that my thyroid is a problem at all for me.

I knew there was something not right and I started looking into other things. I just got diagnosed with Lyme Disease.....so yeah.... I think thats a pretty good reason to not feel good. The last thing on my mind is going back to "playing" with my thyroid meds. Been there.....done that....it didnt help.....just made me hyper.

Honestly I dont know why you would suggest to someone who has perfect labs and no Hypo symptoms to increase their dose.

Thankfully, I have done my homework on all this many moons ago....and I know exactly what dose and what med. works best for me.

I think its dangerous to advise people to take such large doses of thyroid meds and to totally disregard lab results, symptoms (or lack of) AND the possibility that the health problems may have *nothing* to do with thyroid at all.

To answer your question...

How did you find that out ? Its a very common situation at 3 grains to have that effect and its a low adrenal symptom. The adrenals if weak can't cope with all the good Armour floating around.

How did I find out?? Because my hands were shaking, my heart was racing, I was sweating and I couldnt sleep because my thoughts were racing. These are my Hyper symptoms. I am all to familiar with them....I had Graves Disease. I then got a blood test which said I was hyper. Thats how I found out that 3 grains is too much for me.

I listen to my body and I confirm my symptoms with testing. Its nothing to do with low adrenal function....I'm not sure where you're coming from with that??

My dose was too high for me....plain and simple.....blame it on adrenals or whatever else. It doesnt change the fact that 3 grains made me Hyper and I wouldnt do that to myself again....especially since I'm not having Hypo symptoms.

If you have any ideas on how raising my Armour dose will eliminate my food intolerances, Multiple Chemical Sensitivities and get rid of the Lyme Disease....I'd sure be willing to listen to that!

I think maybe its best to not read all of the thyroid lists because not everyone falls into one category. Everyone is diferent and if you're reading what they're saying and applying it to *everyone*....well thats just dangerous.

The lab tests arent a perfect science but they *do* hold some weight. Are you really sugesting I more than double my Armour dose and go Hyper.....just because you read that I *should* be on this dose???

Sorry but it makes no sense to me.

.

Hate to think you are ill because of not an optimal Thyroid.Without a healthy Thyroid no one ever feels well.

As I've said to you before....I have untreated Lyme Disease. Its pretty much a given I'm not gonna feel well...you can give me all the Armour in the world and I'm still gonna feel sick.

[georgie]

All I am trying to say is that you mentioned you had low adrenal function, and that you get hyper symptoms when you raise to a fairly normal Armour dose. I am trying to say that those hyper symptoms can also be low adrenal symptoms. If you happy with the dose you are thats fine. I didn't say 'no labs' but you need a Dr that is fairly understanding of labs. Our Dr lets our FT3 get 2.0 OVER range and our TSH get to 0.1 to give an example.This is the new standard now for the Drs that specialise in Thyroid.Its straight from the Drs mouth as well as on the Lists which seem to carry the latest info, and research. I know a few Drs that say they drop in to do their study there I know you have Lymes and am not suggesting you haven't. But a weak Thyroid and /or weak adrenals is not able to fight infections very well ....

Anyway - I think Kathy Ann was asking about heart flip flops and we seemed to have diversed. I get heart flip flops too. Its when my next dose of adrenal support is due. I have had them for years on and off,and been checked and checked and Drs could find nothing wrong. For me - it was the Hypo/ Adrenal connection.And they got worse when I got to 3 grains. I was still Hypo. With extra adrenal support I am now at 4 and starting to get close to normal. That's all

[Guest Kathy Ann]

..

[Rachel--24]

Our Dr lets our FT3 get 2.0 OVER range and our TSH get to 0.1 to give an example.This is the new standard now for the Drs that specialise in Thyroid.

Its not that new anymore. My Endocrinologist was already using these numbers 4 years ago. I had probably one of the best Endo.'s in my area so I've been in good hands. Thanks for all of your concern. My weak adrenals are because of the Lyme. When things get better in that area....the adrenals and other problems should improve as well.

Kathy Ann....I agree....many many things can cause heart flip-flops.

[srokie]

I've mentioned this before, but it's really a problem with me. Since my heart and bloodwork are OK, my naturopath believes that my heart flops must be due to 'still' eating things I'm allergic to. I'm REALLY trying to be careful. Anybody else have heart flip flops and/or hyperventilation as their primary symptoms with their gluten and other food intolerances. Did they go away? How long did it take?

I had random tachycardia related to celiac. I'm newly diagnosed (8/06) but I'm noticing significant improvements. Feel free to contact me for more info!!