Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

[AliB]

Anyone following this?

I have started it today. I knew gluten and dairy were a problem, but I also knew that my problems went further than just gluten-free/DF.

A lot of this makes sense. I have bought Elaine Gottschall's book and am doing the chicken and carrots stuff. Even within a few hours I am beginning to feel a little better.

I noticed on the other thread that whilst some were having some success, they would talk about problems with corn and eating different makes of tinned veg. Anything that comes out of a tin is going to be suspect! What is wrong with just cooking raw carrots? They were also looking for commercially made products without corn - if you make it yourself, you know what is in it.

So - any SCD success stories out there?

[kelsey]

yah i did this and had a major detox. i was eating lean pork and vegetables. all my symptoms went away but they came back because i couldnt stick to it. it can be so hard to get the body to transition eating with little to no carbs. but stick to it..it really does work!

[gfmolly]

My friend is on this diet for three months for colitis and has noticed measurable improvements. She is following it strictly and is feeling great. She's down to 10 mg of prednisone from 20 mg 3 months ago. She plans to stick it out for two years to help her get healed up and off meds. I am thinking about starting this diet after we go to Disney at the end of the month to try to propel myself into the final stages of healing. I am at 11 months since going gluten-free/cf and seem to still be struggling with some minor issues trying to heal.

Best wishes!

If you want to start a support thread, I'd be into that!

terri

[AliB]

Can this be a support thread, or do you mean on some other forum??

[Rob.]

I'm on it too!

I decided to modify the diet a bit to make it safer in my eyes. instead of starting at the intro diet I started with roughly the full diet taking all the high calorie foods (ie honey) and have had a week of that before toning it into the intro diet which I shall begin tomorrow when my yogurt is ready. I didn't think my body would be happy with too sudden a drop in calorie intake, for one it sets your adrenal glands off a bit.

So after that week how do I feel? well no that much different, however when I initially started a week ago I felt very tired and needed lots of pick me up honey so Its improving. Cutting out foods for me is real easy so think I may stick with diet even it doesn't yield improvement, after all its very healthy, and I need all the help I can get!

[AliB]

Hi Rob. Apparently it can take up to three weeks to start see a change.

I went gluten-free/DF at the end of Jan so was already on the right path and the diarrhea stopped almost immediately. Strangely though, since I started the SCD my 'movements' have changed again, almost going backwards.

My body will be going through a flux period until it starts to settle down and it is probably still offloading crud from the last 50 years and will be for a while. I know my liver had a good clear-out (I felt it and experienced the soreness for a few days!) about 2 weeks after I started the gluten-free/DF and undoubtedly there may be more to come!

This diet is so logical. Most of us consume way too much carbohydrate and our bodies just can't cope with it in that quantity. Sooner or later something's gotta give! It isn't just gluten - it's carbs per se and the quicker people realise and cut the carbs, the better they will be for it. I have noticed on this forum that so many who go gluten-free end up replacing the gluten with other carbs instead.

Back at the end of the 1800's it was realised that carbs were the problem - where did the Medical Profession go? They only picked up the gluten cot and walked with it - hence so many Celiacs and GI's who are still very poorly. How blind they still are.............

[AliB]

I have just tasted some of my first batch of 24hour yogurt. That has to be the best yoghurt I have ever eaten! It is fantastic!

I made it with full cream milk, half a pot of single (light) cream and a dash of double (heavy) and Total thick greek yoghurt as a starter. I did try to get my husband to have a taste but he just has a pathological and totally irrational revulsion - he has never tried it in all the years we have been married (well not to his knowledge anyway - if I use it in cooking I don't tell him and he will eat it, none the wiser!).

I told him it is like eating cream, but he still won't try it. Is that daft? Mind you, my mum used to make yoghurt when I was a kid and I couldn't stand that - it was always so sour. Now they use different cultures that don't create such a tart taste and it makes all the difference.

I definitely will be making that again. I have a little catarrgh after eating it so I suspect there is still a little stray lactose or casein in it, but it's not too bad and I am sure there is enough lactic acid in it to counteract that, and my stomach seems to be ok with it so far. I'm going to go and put some in a dish with some blueberries and honey. Oh yum.

I absolutely definitely will be making buckets of that now - the ironic thing is that I might end up having more dairy in the form of yogurt than I ever did with milk!

[gfmolly]

So your body seems to be able to handle the yogurt? I am dairy free as well and very skeptical about how I will feel with the dairy in this diet. Are you going to have the different cheeses that are allowed?

[AliB]

Although I can't tolerate dairy per se, I did seem to be able to tolerate yogurt right through - although I was only having goat's yogurt. I decided to try cow's milk yogurt this week and bought some Total Greek yogurt, but my stomach definitely didn't like it very much.

However, when I made my first batch of 24hour yogurt I used the Total as a starter. I also used cow's milk and cream to make it with. Although I got a bit of catarrgh, my stomach has been fine with it. Apparently, the long culturing helps to really break down most of the lactose and casein, as well as creating a higher amount of bacteria, and also more lactic acid to mop up any stray lactose. That is why Elaine G recommends 'brewing' it for at least 24hours rather than the 6 or so that commercial producers culture theirs for.

As yet, I have not tried any cheese, but I am contemplating that. I might try some mild cheddar or goats' cheese first. I also want to try and get hold of some Curd cheese if I can. It is not readily available where I live although I can get medium-fat soft cheese, but I think it depends on whether it has been curded with rennet or has actually been cultured with lactic acid.

I found the book slightly confusing as although she refers to it as Dry Curd Cottage Cheese, here in the UK we either have Cottage cheese which is moist and lumpy, or Curd Cheese which is thick and smooth. I wonder if straining and pressing Cottage cheese would work just as well, or whether it would depend on the rennet/culture thing again? Unless it mentions it on the pack, how would I tell?

The other thing I find confusing is that she refers to 'Apple Cider'. Over here, Cider is an alcoholic Apple drink. In the UK Cider has been used to describe fermented apple juice for centuries. I suspect she means just plain pressed apple juice although I would be quite happy to imbibe the alcoholic one!

[Rob.]

Yeah I had the same thought, I settle with welch's 100% grape juice, apparently its got no added sugar so its all good.

As for dry curd cheese I didn't even bother looking, I doubt i'll find it. However as an alternative I can drain off yoghurt. Talking of which mine is ready in six hours!

My bowels has also definately changed, I'm curious as to where its going! Shock horror its been sometime since i've been worried about being bunged up!

How are you feeling fatigue wise? my energy levels took a real hit but are back on the way up.

[Rob.]

More pressing issue though, I cannot for the life of me find SSC legal vitamins? got some multi minerals but everything I look at has added starch, sugar, sweetner or soy

[AliB]

Supplements can be a minefield - there they are, supposed to be healthy for you and actually they can be full of rubbish too!

I'm not sure where you are. Here in the UK I buy Tesco's Complete for Women (although they also do one for Men which my Hub has found helpful) but if you are in the States I don't know what is available there. I was taking loads of different things, but then I worried that I might be unbalancing my body so I just restrict to the Multi at the moment and will watch out for any deficiency signs.

I found my energy levels did go up quite considerably after I went gluten-free/DF, and after a period of adjustment, but just as I was beginning to think I had cracked it I went down with a damn virus and was ill for over 2 weeks. Whilst it has all but gone, the energy hasn't come back yet, well not to the point it had got to. I do have more energy overall though than I have had for a long time as I can still run up the stairs - and that was something I hadn't done for a long time before the gluten-free/DF.

I have lost around 30lbs too, some of which was lost before my digestion collapsed in Jan and a few lbs since which does help. I think the energy level change with the SCD will be perhaps not quite so radical as with the gluten-free/DF as I was already part way there and my body is still trying to sort itself out. I have eaten something lunchtime which didn't agree with me very well - possibly the peeled raw apple - I usually know as my stomach gets uncomfortable and I get a dull ache/pain in my centre back. That tends to drain my energy - the digestion takes up a lot of energy and if it isn't working properly then fatigue will be the first symptom.

I fell down the stairs when my daughter was a baby and fractured my spine. I always thought the pain I used to get was to do with that plus the extra weight I was carrying (although I'm sure it didn't help!), but I now know it was to do with my digestion. At times I would get so tired and weak, it would take all my strength not to just lay down in the street where I was standing! I always wondered why I could do walking and sitting but I couldn't do standing!

How has your yogurt turned out?

[2222]

tHIS MIGHT BE A LITTLE OFF THE SUBJECT BUT HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER WONDERED IF IT WASN'T GLUTEN THAT IS CAUSING ARE PROBLEMS, BECAUSE I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH CELIAC TWO YEARS AGO AND MY SYMPTOMS GOT BETTER BUT I WAS STILL HAVING PROBLEMS AND I NOTICED THE ONLY THING THAT WAS IN EVERYTHING I ATE WAS SOY...THE DOC JUST TOLD ME THATS NORMAL FOR SOMEONE WITH CELIAC TO HAVE MOREE THAN ONE INTOLERANCE BUT I SOON DEVELOPED A CARBOHYDRATE INTOLERANCE AND HAD ALL OF THE SAME SYMPTOMS I HAD THAT I THOUGHT I WAS GETTING FROM GLUTEN. I DECIDED TO START EATING GLUTEN AGAIN AND AVOID SOY COMPLETELY. mY SYMPTOMS ARE COMPLETLY GONE:) iF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE INGREDIENT LISTS OF FOOD WITH WHEAT THEY ALL HAVE SOY IN THEM ALSO. ITS JUST A THOUGHT BECAUSE IT WORKED FOR ME AND NOW I CAN EAT BREAD BUT IT IS SOY FREE AND I ALSO EAT SOY FREE CEREAL NOW. iF YOU ARE TO SCARED TO ADD GLUTEN BACK IN AT LEAST TRY AVOIDING SOY AND SEE IF THAT HELPS FIRST BECAUSE I HAVE HEARD THAT IT CAN ALSO FLATTEN VILLI. i ALSO AGREE WITH WHOEVER SAID SOMETHING ABOUT CARBS BEING A PROBLEM IN GENERAL. i STILL EAT VERY LITTLE GLUTEN BECAUSE SOY IS IN ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT GLUTEM IS, BUT I NOTICED THAT A LOW CARB DIET FOR ME REALLY WAS THE KEY TO MAKING ME FEEL BETTER.

[Rob.]

Yes I'm from the uk too! so you say that tesco's own brand multi is ssc safe? (well safe enough without having to hound the manufacturer!)

My yoghurt turned out good, didn't actually have much of it as it all went into a savory cheesecake, which was good though the success was lessened because either a small amount of diary yogurt, or the grape juice upset my stomach. I've never had a real problem with diary bar the temporary intolerance that coeliac disease caused. though I am aware that diary is general bad news. I've also read a short piece from the coeliac doctor stating that the body will have an easier time digesting the fruit rather than a commercial fruit juice so I think I shall leave fruit juices for teh foreseeable future.

Thats an interesting experience you've had with soy there, 22222, I find it odd that you've been diagnosed with coeliacs but are able to tolerate gluten without soy. I suspect that you might have not been properly diagnosed and that your symptoms were simply soy intolerance? though you'd have to discuss that with your doctor. Personally I wouldn't go back to a normal diet even if I could, gluten is detrimental to 'normal' peoples health aswell as coeliacs.

[AliB]

Yes I'm from the uk too! so you say that tesco's own brand multi is ssc safe? (well safe enough without having to hound the manufacturer!)

My yoghurt turned out good, didn't actually have much of it as it all went into a savory cheesecake, which was good though the success was lessened because either a small amount of diary yogurt, or the grape juice upset my stomach. I've never had a real problem with diary bar the temporary intolerance that coeliac disease caused. though I am aware that diary is general bad news. I've also read a short piece from the coeliac doctor stating that the body will have an easier time digesting the fruit rather than a commercial fruit juice so I think I shall leave fruit juices for teh foreseeable future.

Thats an interesting experience you've had with soy there, 22222, I find it odd that you've been diagnosed with coeliacs but are able to tolerate gluten without soy. I suspect that you might have not been properly diagnosed and that your symptoms were simply soy intolerance? though you'd have to discuss that with your doctor. Personally I wouldn't go back to a normal diet even if I could, gluten is detrimental to 'normal' peoples health aswell as coeliacs.

Hi Rob, I have just checked my husband's Tesco's Complete for Men (sorry, due to your name I am assuming you're a man!). I have noticed that it contains a little maize starch, sucrose and maltodextrin. I think some of these things are going to be very difficult to avoid one way or another. As it is only one tablet a day I would imagine that the amount is so small that it probably wouldn't impact too greatly. I have a job figuring out why they need to put sucrose and maltodextrin in them - normally they are swallowed so you wouldn't be able to taste it anyway!

If you find a better one let me know!

I did find that the yoghurt affected me a little. I have had some catarrgh with it so I'm thinking that either it needs 'cooking' for longer than the 24hours or I would be better off with goat's milk. I have found that I could tolerate commercial goats' yogurt far better than cows' so that may be the best way to go. I haven't got the 'cooking' off to a good start as I have a job to keep it warm overnight. Last night I put it into a slightly warm oven which hopefully got it going then popped it by the radiator when I got up this morning, but I reckon I will have to invest in a proper yoghurt maker so I can keep the temp even. If it hasn't cultured properly undoubtedly that would impact on the effect it has on me. It is delicious though.

Do you get backache when your stomach is affected?

I did us a chicken curry last night but used crushed cooked cauliflower instead of rice. It tasted ok but boy did we suffer after! Perhaps that was just one too many veg!

The cheesecake sounded good. I am having to avoid eggs at the moment as my stomach isn't coping with them very well, which is a bind as there are quite a few things I'd like to make that contain eggs. I made some blueberry pancakes for breakfast the other day using ground almonds and eggs and they were very good but my stomach wasn't at all happy after. Wouldn't it be good to just be able to eat without having to think about what might be a problem for the stomach! And then maybe it is combinations of different foods - someone was saying that he could eat toast and he could eat eggs, but he couldn't have eggs on toast!!!

I'm getting fed up having to think about food all the time!

[darlindeb25]

I was wondering what all of you are eating? Do you have to give up dairy all together if it doesn't bother you? I want to give this a chance, but I am not understanding everything yet. The only book I could find at the library was "Breaking the Vicious Cycle", is that the one you have?

[AliB]

Hi Deb, yes that's the book.

I am slowly getting into the swing. It would be easier for me if I could eat eggs, but at the moment I am having yogurt and fruit, or fish, or even soup for breakfast. I would have an interchange of one of those or salad with chicken or turkey for lunch and a cooked meal for dinner with just meat, fish, or fowl and plenty of fresh vegetables - no potatoes, or grains. I had some more yogurt this evening with a few strawberries after my meal.

It is surprising how not being able to have eggs has limited my choice - even more so than gluten and dairy strangely enough as there is usually something I can rustle up with eggs. I did blueberry pancakes the other day for breakfast which were delicious made with grounds almonds, eggs, yogurt and blueberries, but my stomach didn't like the eggs at all.

Hopefully I will be able to cope with them eventually.

It is up to you whether you give up dairy or not, but it even though it may not be giving you any obvious symptoms it may still be feeding the bacteria you need to get rid of. Whilst you are still eating foods that feed the Candida you won't get any better.

[AliB]

I have a slightly worrying problem in that the diarrhea that I had successfully got rid of when I went gluten-free/DF seems to have come back. Over the last 2 days my stools have changed back to the typical Celiac type, today culminating in the diarrhea - not sure if it is something I ate or a side-effect of the SCD.

I was on gluten-free/DF for just over a month then started the SCD a week ago. It could be my body having a clear-out - it could even be a reaction to the yogurt (I did eat about half a litre over the last few days), and when I had the diarrhea before I was still on dairy so that is a possibility. I will monitor this and let you know - if anyone is interested!

[AliB]

I just found this quote on Pecanbread. I know it is aimed at kids but the principles can just as likely fit adults too.

Initial Reactions

Some children exhibit increased hyperactivity or aggression when they start the probiotics. Other children get digestive symptoms such as diarrhea, constipation, and light-brown-yeasty looking stools. You just have to keep experimenting with the amount, you might need to start out with a smaller dose if you get too many negative reactions.

- Maybe I did overdo it with the yogurt!!!!

[Rob.]

Your reactions are perfectly normal, its caused by the 'die off' reaction of the bacteria living in your gut. When they die off they give off all their toxins in one go so it does worsen symptoms. When I started the diet I had D but it cleared up fairly quickly, well actually I had to go out at short notice, took lots of immodium and spent the rest of the week mildly bunged up!

As for backache I seem to get it generally, though specially when my guts are having trouble, I believe its the swollen bowels pressuring the spine (ooo that sounds fun!)

Well the dairy yoghurt really hasn't agreed with me! so either I'm not good with cows milk, or its the probiotic action of it thats upsetting me. I did seem to tolerate it better in the form of baked cheesecake. Its annoying as I seem to tolerate everything well, as I had a week of SSC legal fun, to break the diet in a bit softer I had lots of high calorie foods from the diet pages before easing into the strict starting diet and found that few foods really bothered me. But now i've got the yoghurt flowing i'm not feeling too sharp!

How easy is goats milk to obtain? i'm using uht diary milk at the moment as it doesn't require heating before its mixed with the commercial yogurt. Thats another thing, commercial goats yoghurt? I shall have to have look out for these.

[Rob.]

I'm not sure wheather to keep trying with the yoghurt in the hope of tolerating it better when I get used to it, but I worry that my symptoms with it may disappear, though it still does me harm.

[Rob.]

I'm not sure whether to keep trying with the yoghurt in the hope of tolerating it better when I get used to it, but I worry that my symptoms with it may disappear, though it still does me harm.

[AliB]

Hi Rob. Goats' milk is now obtainable at most superstores, Tesco's, Sainsbury's, you name it. I would tend to use the whole milk rather than skimmed as I prefer the creamier taste but of course that is a matter of taste.

You should also be able to buy goats' yoghurt for a starter - St Helen's Farm brand is sold in Tescos and Asda and probably in others. I have also just discovered that whilst the Total Greek Yogurt I bought was cows' milk, apparently they also do goats' and sheeps' yogurt in Waitrose, Sainsbury's, Tesco and Asda and apparently some Co-ops although I have never seen it in our little local one (Wales is a bit too backwoods for that sort of thing - they did goats' milk for 5 minutes but it turned out to have been sent to them in error!).

Woodlands Sheeps' Milk Live Yoghurt is sold through the larger Sainsburys and some Morrisons stores; the Organic Sheeps' Milk Live Yoghurt is available in Waitrose and some Tesco stores south of Oxford and some smaller outlets. I have just called to ask if it is available in South Wales. I would love to be able to get hold of sheeps' milk - you would not think that to be a problem in Wales where there are probably more sheep than people, would you!

The instructions in the BTVC book says to not boil goats' milk but just heat it to 185 degrees. That is all very well, but it would mean having to have a cooking thermometer of some kind.

You are probably right about the die-off but starting the yogurt might also have contributed. It seems to be ok today thank goodness.

I don't know about it doing harm either. I know that many do find that they tolerate goats' milk much better than cows' milk anyway and I think sheeps' milk is better still so you may find that you cope better with yoghurt made from either of those much better than from cows' milk, I know I do.

To the question of why we tolerate goats' milk better than cows' I have extracted this from the St Helens Farm website - "Research has indicated that it has much to do with the protein structure in the milks. They are called caseins and the absence of aplha-s1 casein and a higher proportion of beta-casein in goats' milk means that the casein profile of goats' milk is closer to human milk than that of cows' milk. These proteins form a softer curd in the stomach and the fat particles are also smaller, which is a great aid to digestion for many who cannot tolerate cows' milk".

[Rob.]

well after today I know its a big no to diary yoghurt, I may tolerate it better after some time but its not worth it!

[AliB]

Shame you have had a reaction to the yoghurt.

I find breakfast the most difficult meal - what do you tend to have a that time? When I was just doing plain low-carb, it wasn't a problem, but now I can't tolerate many foods I get a bit frustrated. Eggs are usually a big part of breakfast but they are not agreeing with me.

I am usually aware of my heart beating - there is a background thump all the time. I don't know why but it does seem to be more obvious when my digestion is not good. Not necessarily fast, but I am very aware of it, especially at night when I am trying to get to sleep.

I hoped it would improve with the gluten-free/DF diet but it doesn't seem to have made any difference. I hate this - it was bad enough not being very well or having much energy, but now I'm not very well, don't have much energy, and can hardly eat anything without having an almost permanent backache!

I have confidence that it will get better and will undoubtedly get worse before it gets better - but that doesn't make it any easier!