How Strict Do We Need To Be?

[aikiducky]

Seriously though, I wonder, at the risk of setting off another, err, opinionated discussion, just how much gluten is in a distilled beverage.

Lol, radman, you know how to choose your questions!

Actually this discussion has been really enlightening. I can't have grain alcohol or vinegar at all, and I never quite understood why. But it could very well be that I react to some component of the grain other than gluten. So I stick to wine and port. Which unfortunately doesn't help you at all, or what would your mates think about port? You could always try adding a dressing gown and pipe and gout and go for the old distinguished gentleman....

I had to laugh when I read you asking if no one ever lived dangerously. I did live dangerously last weekend, I went to a pancake restaurant with some people! And no, of course I didn't eat anything there - I had a cup of tea! And I got sick!!! It wasn't even especially good tea either. Living dangerously.... <wanders off muttering to herself>

Pauliina

oh, and for the record.... I can so understand where you less symptomatic people are coming from! I think for a lot of people it just seems intuitively WRONG that something that makes them so sick could ever be ok for anyone to eat. So basically I can symphatize with both sides of the argument. In a way I'm thankful of my symptoms because they don't leave me a choice and so i don't have to get a headache over this...

[ravenwoodglass]

Ok, on a lighter note, I need some practical advice.

My neanderthal buddies only know one way to socialize, and that is over a beer. A beer after work, a beer after golf, a beer while the wives talk. Since I can no longer drink beer, I keep making excuses, but I'm running out. They are suspecting I may be turning into a panzie a$$. If I tell them I have a food intolerance and can't drink beer and eat pizza, I then officially become a panzie a$$. Jerks.

What to do?

p.s. this is actually more serious than it sounds

Actually this is serious, sometimes the social ramifications can be dire. Have you tried Woodchuck Cider? It is a hard cider with an alcohol content similar to beer and not as wimpy as ordering wine would be. We find it here in the grocery stores and if you have a couple of clubs you go to they should be able to get it from their distributors easily. Other people can be kind of jerks about things at first but your real friends will eventually get over it.

[Guest BERNESES]

Whoever takes pictures of Radman dancing on the tables, please post it !

We could sell T-shirts that say, "#5, with added attractions...." and donate profits to celiac research!

I would pay a lot of money for one of those!!!!!

[IronedOut]

Woohoo!! I got to page 19.

And learned so much along the way. Thanks to all for the input on this topic. I had few external symptoms, however my intestinal damage is quite extensive as shown on the capsule study films. Not sure which side of the fence I would eventually land on, but for now I will be firmly gluten free.

[ravenwoodglass]

Hmmm

so this is interesting

Skoki's sister can drink scotch (grain based) without a problem despite gluten sensitivity,

but Rusla can only drink non-grain based alcohol (tequila, vodka, wine, rum).

Could it be that there are minute amounts of small protein fragments (peptides) in the grain distillations that only the very sensitive would react to?

This would relate to the threshold level of gluten that we all may have, and it may be somewhat difference for each of us.

I myself have strong gut reactions to beer, but minimal to scotch and bourbon. I suspect lots more gluten in the beer.

Others want to weigh in on there alcoholic beverage tolerances?

I'm one who reacts strongly to grain based alcohols. I can drink potato vodka with no problems but react strongly to grain vodka. I can drink white rums, most unflavored rums are okay but I would check the spiced to be sure. I can drink tequila of course, but it makes me very uninhibited so I stay away from it Reactions to grain alcohols vary amongst us. I don't think it is due entirely to the length of time symptomatic but more to the particular genetic form of celiac that you have. Just as all of us don't have Dermatitis Herpeformis and not all of us have gall bladder problems or the neurological component some of us will react to grain alcohols and some will not. I found the most obvious reaction was the length of time it took to get intoxicated, I show extreme symptoms of drunkeness and get a real bad 'hangover' from grain alcohol after 2 drinks, grain free I can sip sensibly ( 1 drink an hour or less) all night with no aftereffects

[Nancym]

And for dinner roast pork loin (but it was basted with teriyaki sauce, which included soy sauce with wheat and the infamous modified food starch). These types of minimal exposures haven't been affecting me, but i am still trying to avoid. My wife made it not realizing, and I just ate it.

So that's kind of how its been going so far. It is getting easier.

You can buy wheat-free Soy or Tamari sauce. I usually have to look for it at health food stores, but sometimes regular groceries do. I actually like the taste better than the other sort. But, it means you've probably got to make your own teriyaki sauce.

[Rusla]

I'm one who reacts strongly to grain based alcohols. I can drink potato vodka with no problems but react strongly to grain vodka. I can drink white rums, most unflavored rums are okay but I would check the spiced to be sure. I can drink tequila of course, but it makes me very uninhibited so I stay away from it Reactions to grain alcohols vary amongst us. I don't think it is due entirely to the length of time symptomatic but more to the particular genetic form of celiac that you have. Just as all of us don't have Dermatitis Herpeformis and not all of us have gall bladder problems or the neurological component some of us will react to grain alcohols and some will not. I found the most obvious reaction was the length of time it took to get intoxicated, I show extreme symptoms of drunkeness and get a real bad 'hangover' from grain alcohol after 2 drinks, grain free I can sip sensibly ( 1 drink an hour or less) all night with no aftereffects

I am the same way. If I was to have one drink of grain based alcohol now, I would not only be drunk out of my mind but sicker than a dog well into tomorrow. But if I was to drink say three four oz glasses straight of tequila I would be fine. I may be a little drunk because of our altitude but that would be it. I could drink many rums without much effect outside of a little drunk just not our wimpy rums but the 120% and 150% Jamaican rums and that is because of our altitude again. In Jamacia and Cuba I could drink most of the day there before even being drunk and no hangover. Going to Jamaica was the only drinking I have done in a year.

[2Boys4Me]

Lie to your friends, Radman. Tell them it's contagious and soon THEY won't be able to drink beer either because you've infected them. That'll shut them up and you can have all the rum/vodka/tequila/jack daniels/whatever you want with no repercussions. Then you can sit there drinking your drink with your little secret smile and watch them freak out.

[KaitiUSA]

You are asking for a lot of problems if you don't completely cut gluten out. I mean you have to be careful not to stir gluten containing foods and gluten free foods with the same spoon...you have to be very very strict. There are no levels of celiac...you have it or you don't...you have to avoid it or you don't...there is no halfway point. Some people may not get symptoms but that doesn't mean they can eat it because it still does damage.

[Rusla]

You are asking for a lot of problems if you don't completely cut gluten out. I mean you have to be careful not to stir gluten containing foods and gluten free foods with the same spoon...you have to be very very strict. There are no levels of celiac...you have it or you don't...you have to avoid it or you don't...there is no halfway point. Some people may not get symptoms but that doesn't mean they can eat it because it still does damage.

It's like being pregnant. You either are or you aren't, your not sort of pregnant and you are not sort of Celiac.

I would pay a lot of money for one of those!!!!!

I can blow them up to poster size for blackmail reasons and sell the on Ebay.

[Canadian Karen]

Kaiti! OMG! You're back! Wonderful to hear from you!

Hugs.

Karen

[nikki-uk]

We have Celiac Disease or Gluten Intolerance we are not mongoloid idiots.

Rusla, I am a little upset at your choice of wording in using 'Mongloid Idiot'.

My son has Downs Syndrome and he is no more from Mongolia than he is an idiot.

It's an expression I haven't heard for many years and I was shocked to hear someone use it.

I'm sure you didn't mean to upset anyone with Downs-it's just that the context in which you used 'mongloid idiot' inferred Alan was not too bright,like a person with Downs.

Mongloid,idiot,retard are all very outdated old fashioned very un PC words to use.

[VydorScope]

Kaiti! OMG! You're back! Wonderful to hear from you!

Hugs.

Karen

YES FORGTET THIS LIMITED GLUTEN STUFF! KATIE IS ALIVE!!!!! YAY!!!

[CMCM]

Hmmm

so this is interesting

Skoki's sister can drink scotch (grain based) without a problem despite gluten sensitivity,

but Rusla can only drink non-grain based alcohol (tequila, vodka, wine, rum).

Could it be that there are minute amounts of small protein fragments (peptides) in the grain distillations that only the very sensitive would react to?

This would relate to the threshold level of gluten that we all may have, and it may be somewhat difference for each of us.

I myself have strong gut reactions to beer, but minimal to scotch and bourbon. I suspect lots more gluten in the beer.

Others want to weigh in on there alcoholic beverage tolerances?

I was never much of a drinker....but beer used to make me sick...now I kow why. Now I drink red wine and love it....once you get into the various wines you come to really appreciate them. Wine doesn't bother me in the least.

I am like another poster who said they couldn't even smell beer without getting sick. I always stick to ginger-ale or white wine. I like the idea of being the "designated driver".

Also, Radman, I was interested in your thoughts about the genetic links between celiac and other autoimmune diseases. I had the gene test done by enterolab and then I researched the gene marker for other illness associated with it that are known and have found (no surprise) type I diabetes (my son has it),type II diabetes (other family members), multiple sclerosis, scleroderma, lupus.

I have many neurological symptoms and that is what prompted me to search further. This overlap of autoimmune diseases may be why so many have severe reactions and some pretty scary illnesses associated with celiac--thanks for your input on an angle I have been "researching".

Robbin...which genes do you have? This is very interesting....

[KaitiUSA]

haha what a wonderful welcome back I got...I must be loved

[Canadian Karen]

haha what a wonderful welcome back I got...I must be loved

Loved and sorely missed........

Hugs.

Karen

[Canadian Karen]

Hey Radman,

I finally got into delphi (was having problems). Anyway, you should be able to find something from the list below that is a "manly" drink!

Alcoholic Beverages

NOTE:A lot of products may also be listed by "type" i.e. Wines, Vodkas, etc.

Almaden Wines (000.000.0000) (vw=05/30/02) (www.almaden.com/faqs/FAQ.htm)

Alpine Spiced Cider (Continental Mills) (800.457.7744) (vp=09/05/02)

Drink Mixes

Arbor Mist Frozen Wine Blenders (Arbor Mist) (1-800-836-9463 x 35700) (Consumer.affairs@cwine.com) (ve=05-20-2003)

All are gluten free.

Armagnac (000.000.0000) (00/00/00)

Bacardi (000.000.0000) (00/00/00)

All rums

Bargetto Wines (Bargetto) (800- 4-BARGETTO) (Open Original Shared Link) (ve=05/19/2004)

All varieties

Bartles & Jaymes (E&J Gallo) (www.bartlesandjames.com) (ve=03/26/04)

Wine Based Coolers NOTE: Bartles & Jaymes MALT-Base Coolers contain gluten

Boone’s & Boone’s Farm Coolers (E&J Gallo) (209-341-3111) (ve=03/26/04)

Wine Based Products are gluten-free. NOTE: Some are MALT Based beverages and contain gluten

Brandy (00/00/00)

Calvados, Grand Marnier, AVOID VSOP!

Bushmill's (bushmills@qualitycustomercare.com) (ve=01/09/2004)

ALL whiskies including Malt whiskeys are gluten-free. This is a very smooth Irish whiskey, all products triple distilled, says manufacturer

Campari (000.000.0000) (ve=05/30/02)

Captain Morgan (000.000.0000) (ve=06/04/02) (www.rum.com)

Original Spiced Rum; Silver Spiced Rum; Parrot Bay; Private Stock

Champagne (000.000.0000) (00/00/00)

Chaucer's Mead (Bargetto) (800- 4-BARGETTO) (Open Original Shared Link) (ve=05/19/2004)

Regular, Raspberry, Olallieberry

Cider (00/00/00)

Hornsby (NOT Draft Cider),

Wyder’s Ciders (Wyder’s) – (ve=05-20-2003) .

The Pear and Raspberry Ciders DO contain gluten. The Peach and Apple Ciders, however, contain no gluten.

Ciders (00/00/00)

Woodchuck, Cider Jack, Woodpecker, Strongbow (all made from fermented apples and made with gluten-free ingredients)

Cognac (000.000.0000) (00/00/00)

Corbett Canyon Wines (The Wine Group) (209.599.4111) (00/00/00)

All varieties

Coastal Cellars (Bargetto) (800- 4-BARGETTO) (Open Original Shared Link) (ve=05/19/2004)

All varieties

Crown Royal products (ve=2-5-03)

from the company: “Please be advised that Crown Royal products, which have been distilled, do not contain glutens or gluten residues. However, as this relates to a medical condition, may we suggest you consult your own physician concerning the consumption of alcohol beverage products?”

Cruzan (Todhunter Imports) (www.cruzanrum.com) (ve=2-21-03)

All Rums including flavored onesare gluten-free.

DeKuyper (www.DeKuyper.com) (ve=9-23-04)

Our cordials are made with distilled spirits that are primarily made from a corn base. They may also from time to time, contain small amounts of small grains such as wheat or rye. It is known that Gluten can be found in the small grains such as rye, barley, oats, etc. However, it is generally accepted that the process of distillation excludes gluten in the finished product.

Diageo (800.767.3123) (from the ListServ 07/14/02)

"After calling customer service at 800 767-3123, I received the following list from Diageo on its gluten-free brands

GINS:

Booths

Gordons

Gordons Citrus

Gordons Wildberry

Popov

READY-TO-DRINK COCKTAILS:

T.G.I. Friday's On The Rocks

• Censored on the Beach

• Long Island Ice Tea

• Margarita

• Mudslide

• Pina Colada

• Strawberry Daiquiri

• White Russian

The Club Cocktails

• Brass Monkey

• Censored on the Beach

• Gin Martini

• Long Island Ice Tea

• Manhattan

• Margarita

• Mudslide

• Pina Colada

• Screwdriver

• Tom Collins

• Vodka Martini

• Whiskey Sour

NEW: SMIRNOFF ICE

BLENDERS:

Jose Curevo Blenders

• Authentic Margarita Mix

• Lime Margarita Mix

• Strawberry Margarita Mix

T.G.I. Friday's Blenders

• Amaretto Mudslide

• Margarita

• Mudslide

• Orange Dream

• Pina Colada

• Strawberry Shortcake

• Raspberry Chiller

• Vanilla Caramel Swirl

LIQUEURS AND SPECIALITIES:

Black Haus Blackberry Schnapps

Rumple Minze Peppermint Schnapps

RUM

Appleton Estate V/X

Appleton Estate 12 Year

Appleton Estate 21 Year

Appleton Special

Malibu Caribbean Rum

TEQUILAS:

Cuervo 1800 Reposada

Cuervo 1800 Añejo

Cuervo 1800 Coleccion

Cuervo 1800 Single Barrel

Jose Cuervo Especial

Jose Cuervo Tradicional

Reserva de la Familia de Jose Cuervo

VODKAS:

Gordons

Popov

Relska

Smirnoff

Smirnoff Black

Smirnoff Citrus Twist

Smirnoff Orange Twist

Smirnoff Raspberry Twist

Smirnoff Vanilla Twist

WINES:

CALIFORNIA

• Beaulieu Vineyard

• Blossom Hill Winery

• Glen Ellen

• M. G. Vallejo

CHILE

• Casa Lapostolle

• Cuvee Alexander

FRANCE

• Chateau De Sancerre

• Piat D’Or

ITALY

• Ruffino

Diasronno Originale (Imported by Bacardi from Italy) (Open Original Shared Link) (ve=06/24/03)

Amaretto

E. & J. Gallo Winery, of Modesto, California (Comsumerrealtions@carlorossi.com)(ve=04-12-2004)

All of the wines and champagnes are completely free of gluten or any gluten by-products

Gin (00/00/00)

Club Gin & Tonic, Cocktails for Two Gin Martini, Hublein Gin Martini, Milshire Gin 80%, Popov Gin 80%. Look for Korn (a German Potato Gin)

Hornsby (E&J Gallo) (209-341-3111) (ve=03/26/04)

None are considered gluten-free

Irish Mist (000-000-0000) (ve=04/30/04)

Jack Daniels (www.jackdaniels.com) (ve=01/09/2004)

Jack Daniel's Black Label Tennessee Whiskey has absolutely no carbohydrates (sugar or starch), gluten, fats or cholesterol, as these are removed during the distilling process.

Madeira (www.premiumport.com) (00/00/00)

If from the Portuguese island of Madeira it is gluten-free because of the regulations with making Madeira in that country - otherwise check with the manufacturer

Margarita Mix (00/00/00)

Jose Cuervo; Mr. & Mrs. T

Marinade & Smooth & Spicy Bloody Mary Mixes; Mr. & Mrs. T (EXCEPT Bloody Mary Mix) (00/00/00)

Martini (00/00/00)

Club Extra Dry martini, Club Vodka Martini

Mead (000.000.0000) (00/00/00)

Distilled from honey and is usually gluten-free

Mistico (000.000.0000) (00/00/00)

Jose Cuervo Mistico (agave & cane)

Mixes (00/00/00)

Club Tom Collins (corn), Diamond Jim's Bloody Mary Mystery, Holland House (EXCEPT Teriyaki

Motts (Motts Cadbury Schwepps) (800-426-4891) (Open Original Shared Link) (vp=06/19/03)

Motts Cooking Wines (all varieties)

Ouzo (000.000.0000) (00/00/00)

A clear, aromatic alcohol distilled from grapes and flavored with aniseed (anise). Anise belongs to the parsley family and has a licorice-like flavor. Anise is one of the earliest aromatic plants to be mentioned in history and originates in the Mediteranian.

Pat O'Brien's Hurricane Cocktail Mix (Franco's Cocktail Mixes) (800-782-4508) (www.francoscocktailmixes.com) (vp=9-24-03)

The modified starches they use are sourced from the USA and are corn based but they do not manufacture those ingredients themselves so cannot guarantee that they are totally gluten free. None of the natural flavors are from wheat, rye, barley or oats

Port (www.premiumport.com) (00/00/00)

If from Portugal it is gluten-free because of the regulations with making Port in that country - otherwise check with the manufacturer

Ramapo Valley Brewery gluten-free beer (vp= 11-03) (845-369-7827).

Remy Martin Congnac (ve=1-27=03) (www.remy-cointreau.com)

Remy Martin Congnac products are all grain free/gluten free.

Rose's Natural Infusions Cocktail Mixes, Rose's Brand (they also bring you Rose's Lime Juice and are part of the Motts/Cadbury/Schweppes Group)

1-800-696-5891 www.rosesinfusions.com (vp & ve 08/20/2004)

Rum (00/00/00)

Rum is distilled from sugar cane. Light rums should be free of gluten; however, the heavier spiced rums may contain gluten. If you prefer spiced rums please contact the company to make sure that any spices used are gluten-free. Otherwise it is safest to trust only white rums.

Sake (00/00/00)

May contain gluten from barley enzyme from some of the ingredients used during processing.

Sam Adams (Open Original Shared Link) (ve=07/30/03)

Sam Adams Hard Core Cider

Sherry (00/00/00)

Some use grains. Gallo Cocktail pale dry sherry of California

SKYY Spirits (000.000.0000) (ve=05/30/02)

SKYY Vodka and SKYY Citrus Vodka

Smirnoff Ice (diageo brands) (www.diageo.com) (02/02/05)

USA: Smirnoff Ice (any variety) is a malted beverage and NOT gluten-free.

CANADA, Smirnoff Ice (all varieties) is made with distilled vodka and is gluten-free

SOGONO DI SORRENTO LEMONCELLO (Cive Importing Co., Boston, MA) – liquor (617-227-3193) (ve=03-13-2003). Alcohol used in production is made from beets.

Sutter Home wines (Trinchero Family Estates) (ve=11/12/03)

All our wines are gluten free.

Taylor Marsala Wine (800-487-3417) (vp-3-3-05)

We DO NOT put any gluten in our wines, however, since we do not TEST for gluten, we can not say that it is gluten free!

Tequila (00/00/00)

El Tosoro, Herradura, Jose Cuervo Traditional & White, Matador White, Sauza Commeritivo, Sauza

Tito's Vodka (Open Original Shared Link ) v? 9-23-04)

Made from 100% corn and the product is distilled 6 times.

Tres Generationes (000.000.0000) (00/00/00)

Beware of dark Tequila using caramel food color

Vodkas (00/00/00)

Bellevedere (one from potato - not from rye); Black Death (beet); Bushman's (Australia) (100% cane); Chopin (potato); Hamptons Vodka (made in USA is made from corn -- 877-937-5951); Jinro Soju (a Korean vodka made entirely from sweet potatoes); Kamchatka Vodka 80% (California only - corn); Luksusowa (from potato); Glacier Teton Vodka (made with 100% Idaho potatoes); Milshire Gin 80 proof; Monopolowa (Potato); Popov Citrus & Tangerine; Relsk Vodka 80% (corn); Popov 80%; Smirnoff 80% & 100%; Smirnoff Silver 90.4%; Smirnoff Vodka 80% (corn); Smirnoff Citrus Twist 70%; also see Zodiac.

Tito's Vodka (Open Original Shared Link ) v? 9-23-04)

Made from 100% corn and the product is distilled 6 times.

Williams Sonoma apple martini mixer and lemon drop mixer (www.williamssonoma) (Feedback@williams-sonoma.com) (ve=3-31-05)

The 4830808 Lemon Drop Mix and 6124119 WS Cktl Mix Apltni. These items do not contain gluten.

Wine and Wine Coolers (00/00/00)

Most are gluten-free: Soleo Wine Cooler; E&J Brandies (the cask and cream liquor) , Also see individual listings

Zodiac Vodka (000.000.0000) (vp=05/30/02) (www.zodiacvodka.com)

Cheers!

Karen

[ianm]

Altoids, you really had to be there for that one. Enter this forum with great caution when there is a full moon.

[Rusla]

Altoids, you really had to be there for that one. Enter this forum with great caution when there is a full moon.

No full moon yet.

[radman]

Hi all,

well lots of good info today. I am comforted to know that I have a wide variety of gluten free alcoholic beverages with which to slowly pickle my brain. Thanks Karen

However, let me just say that the majority of those on the delphi list are not acceptable to the klan of the cave bear. I will lose great social standing if I drink any of the following:

Cider

wine coolers

cocktails with more that 2 ingredients

anything with fruit in the name, ingredients, or flavors (especially berries or peach)

anything containing mint or honey ingredients

wine except at dinner or more formal gatherings

cordials and liquers

things I've never heard of (armagnac, ouzo, etc.)

gluten free beer

BUT, I certainly can drink:

Scotch, bourbon, or other whiskey

Gin (with tonic or in Martini only)

Tequila (especially shots, but Margarita acceptable if a festive occasion)

+/- Rum, primarily if at the beach or in the islands

So I have some choices, but socially I don't see watching the big game with the knuckle draggers, and when they pop a cold one, I start drinking tequila shots or Johnny Walker out of the bottle. But at least I would definitely not be viewed a pansy.

At the bar or club, though, a scotch or bourbon or gin/tonic will be my choice.

Now, someone will have to fill me in on the altoids thing once I earn creds; as far as the table dance, wait a minute-bad choice of words, I mean as far as dancing on the table after tequila shots, I must admit significant past experience in this regard, but that was a long time ago. Like the T-shirt idea though

[Fiddle-Faddle]

I'd kind of like to have someone explain the Altoids thing to me, too....

[Rusla]

I am sure your dancing on tables wasn't that long ago and you could revamp your career in table dancing. I am sure they would go over well at a hospital and on billboards.

[Lisa]

Karen:

The show is all yours...............I got front row tickets. Hah

We have battered the poor doctor enough. It's time to let him know the secret about altoids. (Don't know about his gender, although redMAN gives a clue, preference, married, single or indifferent) I think that he is holding out on us until he know about "Altoids". What do you think??? Do you think he has earned his right to know about the mystics of "Altoids" . Has he not paid for his whippings?

Karen, what do you think. Should we let him in on the secret of running a successful partnership?

Your call chick-a-dee.

0000 Lisa

[Canadian Karen]

Naw, let's see if he can figure it out.......

Radman, it is an "enhancer" for something.......

[tiredofdoctors]

Okay, I'm back for a night -- have my husband's work computer. PM'd radman with my gory details. Have a few things to add to this post:

1. Who is that Alan guy?

2. I think that gluten intolerant people should all take life with a grain of salt -- and a slice of lime and a shot of tequila.

3. Yes. Radman has earned the right to find out about the altoids -- but for God's sake, would whoever tells him about it PLEASE pm him so that we don't get into the trouble that we did previously? And Karen, DON'T tell him during a full moon!!!!!!!

4. What do the replies that are only what appear to be random letters mean? I'm not internet savvy, and therefore don't know all the abbreviations. Maybe I don't want to, given some of the responses I've seen over the past 11 months!!!!!

5. Kati -- WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have all missed you a LOT!

6. Some of the gluten-free food tastes like crap. We all know that. BUT, if you listen to the forum members enough, you don't have to learn that by experience!! It makes living gluten-free much more palatable.

7. On a personal note, you guys are the greatest . . . . . . . . . . . Lynne