Mozart And The Whale

[Creative-Soul]

Thank you, Sandy!

I've been looking at some of Mr. Attwood's books but was wondering how 'good' they were...thanks for the recommendation!

Most of what I know is from web-articles, and they all - like the one you just shared - describe me perfectly. My therapist and I even went through word for word the diagnostic protocal that she uses for Aspergers - perfect fit. She still won't change my diagnosis to that - as yet, she says.

I'm sorry, I don't get it...

[2kids4me]

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She still won't change my diagnosis to that - as yet, she says.

That's cause you are an Aspie and are smarter, so you already figured it out

You dont need a doctor to confirm what you already know - yes, get the Tony Attwood book.

Temple Grandin also wrote a really good book called : Thinking in Pictures, and other reports from my life with Autism.

Temple revolutionized cattle handling systems across North America and is sought after for speaking / advising Veterinarians, cattle producers, and procesing plants. She is also a frequent speaker at Autism conferences.

sandy

[Rachel--24]

Sandy,

Thank for suggesting this movie. I think I would like to see it.

I dont know much about Aspergers or Autism...other than some of the "scientific" stuff I've read.

I work with some people who I think have Aspergers or Autism....or something else?? I never really asked and I'm not clear as to what the difference is. Anyways, whatever it is that they have certainly doesnt take away from their personalities....these kids brighten my days.

They are hard workers (they have job coaches to guide them) and are almost *always* happy.....alot more joyful then us "NT's".

Some of the employees get annoyed by their behaviors but I actually enjoy their company....one kid in particular...he sings alot.....anything from "Mr. Rogers Neighborhood" to "Auld Lang Syne". It never fails to put me in a good mood.

He has an unbelievable memory....he can just recite all kinds of facts/details about anything.

When I ask him something simple.....like "How many hours do you work today?".....he doesnt know.

Is this Autism?? He repeats the same sentence sometimes several times over. What is the difference between Aspergers and Autism?? Is the movie about both??

[2kids4me]

Aspergers has been defined by some as high functioning autism.

The movie shows a group of individuals all along the "spectrum of autism"..what that means is that there are varying degrees of how it presents - and that is explained in the commentary that can be played through the movie. They do an excellent job of representing these individuals as unique but isolated because they are different.

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Open Original Shared Link

Asperger syndrome is a form of autism, a condition that affects the way a person communicates and relates to others. A number of traits of autism are common to Asperger syndrome including difficulty in social relationships, difficulty in communicating, limitations in imagination and creative play.

Autism is a lifelong developmental disability that affects the way a person communicates and relates to people around them. Children and adults with autism have difficulties with everyday social interaction. Their ability to develop friendships is generally limited as is their capacity to understand other people's emotional expression.

People with autism can often have accompanying learning disabilities but everyone with the condition shares a difficulty in making sense of the world.

People with autism generally experience three main areas of difficulty; these are known as the triad of impairments.

Social interaction (difficulty with social relationships, for example appearing aloof and indifferent to other people)

Social communication (difficulty with verbal and non-verbal communication, for example not fully understanding the meaning of common gestures, facial expressions or tone of voice)

Imagination (difficulty in the development of interpersonal play and imagination, for example having a limited range of imaginative activities, possibly copied and pursued rigidly and repetitively).

In addition to this triad, repetitive behaviour patterns and resistance to change in routine are often characteristic.

As for repeating words or sentences - my daughter does that when she is excited or if she is anxious. If she is interupted, she has to start back at the beginning of the thought sequence.

Time is an abstract concept - I phrase things differently for Kathryn - she too would have looked at me blankly if I asked her how many hours she worked...but, if I asked her what time she started and what time she finshed, she may have been able to tell me. Abstract concepts can be difficult for some.

Some children with autism will also repeat what they hear, some can remember commercials on TV verbatem, I think the name for that is echolalia. They also repeat what you say to them

Kathryn has visual processing issues as well - she is on the honour roll in grade 8, yet when we play board games with 2 dice - she has trouble counting the dots, she also is terrified of escalators - because she cannot see or predict when the next step is coming up, even with the bright yellow lines on the edge of each step. This is not something she will get over - we take stairs or elevators, on the odd occasion where its the only option - I feel like I am torturing her, I hold on to her and tell her when to step on and off, then give her a big hug at the end...

The "symptoms" are diverse and individual. In the movie Isabelle is more outgoing and makes brief eye contact, whereas Donald cannot make any eye contact.

She can paint art and compose music at the same time, Donald is a genius with numbers..

I think watching the movie will answer a lot of questions, watch it first , then watch it again with the commentary.

Racheal - pay special attention to the eye contact, does the person look you in the eye, or does he/she look down and away, keep working, look off to the side? That will be the biggest clue. Once you start paying attention to it, you will always niotcie when someone makes direct eye contact...simply because now you are looking for it. Most NT's look at each other automatically and unconciously...the autistic person has great difficulty

Sandy

[Creative-Soul]

  2kids4me said:

That's cause you are an Aspie and are smarter, so you already figured it out

You dont need a doctor to confirm what you already know ...

I know... a part of me, though, would like to have the confirmation...

The whole eye contact thing can be murder, especially when you can't explain or understand why it is so darned painful to do! As a kid and teen I couldn't do it at all ... One year as I was visiting my uncle in Toronto, he really noticed it and took it upon himself to 'cure' me of it. He would force me to look him in the eyes whenever we talked and I hated, absoluted hated that!!! It would physically hurt me... But, I must say - very grudgingly - that after that tortuous month there was some improvement, though I still now can't look at someone constantly. And, yes, sometimes people think I'm not listening or am being rude, but just because I'm not looking at you doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with my ears!!!

[Rachel--24]

  2kids4me said:

Racheal - pay special attention to the eye contact, does the person look you in the eye, or does he/she look down and away, keep working, look off to the side? That will be the biggest clue. Once you start paying attention to it, you will always niotcie when someone makes direct eye contact...simply because now you are looking for it. Most NT's look at each other automatically and unconciously...the autistic person has great difficulty

Thanks for the explanation Sandy.

I'll definately look for the movie. I never payed close attention to the eye contact but now that I think about it...I dont think this one boy ever makes direct eye contact. I'll have to pay better attention.

He does recite commercials and things he's seen or heard...either from the newspaper or TV....he does it word for word. I think he knew everyones name on his first day of work...I could never remember everyones name like that!

Sometimes customers complain. We work in a grocery store (he is a bagger)....if he is outside collecting carts and a customer walks up asking for a cart..he will tell them no. He focuses on his job....which is bringing the carts to the front of the store...so he'll say "no" hes counting the carts and bringing them back.

Sometimes managers will talk to him about "customer service" and things like that....but I just dont think its something that can be changed...its just the way he thinks. Maybe I'm wrong though??

[2kids4me]

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Sometimes customers complain. We work in a grocery store (he is a bagger)....if he is outside collecting carts and a customer walks up asking for a cart..he will tell them no. He focuses on his job....which is bringing the carts to the front of the store...so he'll say "no" hes counting the carts and bringing them back.

You just described an autistic trait. They are a stickler for rules, rigid in many ways. He knows his job is to collect the carts and bring them back. In his mind, those customers are asking him to break the rules.

He doesnt care about customer service, he cares about doing his job right.

Now, I dont know this boy or his personality but if that is his way of thinking, instead of talking about customer service, approach it in a different way: Have the manager tell him they have added to his job/duties... tell him that they expect him to give a cart to customers if they ask (as part of his job), THEN - and this is the crucial part - ask him how he would handle that - if he isnt sure - that would be another clue - then you could ask him if he counts the carts, he could subtract the one cart. Ask him if he would like to give the person a cart from the end of the row (the lead cart) or would he give them a cart from the end he is pushing.

Ask him how he feels when customers want to take cart from him.

1. You add the "new rule"

2. You help him through the problem solving - how he will apply the new rule.

Not sure how he does it, when staff collect carts. sometimes they push a bunch together, others bring in one cart at a time. Depends how he is doing it.

Perhaps if he is doing the "one cart at a time" - he could offer to push the cart right to the front door for the customer, then he has still brought it to the front of the store (did his job) and given customer service. This gets kind of tricky , again because of rigidity -there will be customers that want to push the cart themselves - that would then be disconcerting..

Another very helpful thing is to set it up - you accompany him to collect the carts (dont help him, that will frazzle his way of doing it) ..then arrange for someone he doesnt know to approach as a customer would and they ask for a cart. Help him through it - "do you want to give him one from the end?" How many carts do you have now?

It may seem like a lot of work when he should "just understand" he has to give people a cart..but the neurologic differences make some easy tasks a lot harder than a NT could imagine.

That's how a seemingly simple task for you and I can become overwhelming for someone with autism....often stress is behind the meltdowns in an autistic. Imagine if you had to think this hard about how to handle simple tasks in everyday life.

Is this making sense? Trying to explain something over the net is harder than it looks

Sandy

[jayhawkmom]

I'm going to have to find and watch this movie.

When my older son was 5, we had a full developmental screening done - as his pediatrician was starting to consider he might be "an aspie."

The panel of doctors (numerous developmental specialists) sat my husband and I down in a room and pretty much said something to the effect of, "he's much smarter than the average 5 year old, he's incredibly quirky and ridged, and he absolutely has sensory issues," and then they went on to tell us that they'd probably see us again when he was around 9 or 10 years old. He's 8.5 now... and having numerous behavioral issues that stem from "mommy" not following the rules.

He does exceptionally well in school; however, we are starting to notice that he really hates things that deviate from his normal schedule. For example... he now is required to take accelerated reader tests. But taking the tests require that he interrupt some other part of his day to go to the library. On days when he knows he's going to the library, it's not a big deal. But, if he has to take a test on a day that he normally would not go to the library...he does very poorly. Or, he simply won't take the test, which has caused him to be significantly behind.

He rarely makes eye contact with people who are talking to him, or when he does... it's fleeting, while he's glancing at this or that... or the other thing across the room. When I talk to him, directly, he opens his eyes really wide as if he's attempting to force himself to look at me. More than once I've held his head still, so he can look at me when it's something of utmost importance.

He prefers to play alone on the playground, because of two reasons.

1. The other kids aren't as good at ________ as he is.

2. The other kids are too rough, and don't play fair. He can't handle someone breaking the rules.

(and, he really is VERY good at sports.... he seems to have been born with a natural ability, terrific hand-eye coordination, and eagle-like vision, LOL!)

He's now in third grade, and NONE of his teachers have said they notice *anything* remotely different about him. I just don't understand that. My friends see it. Family members see it. Doctors have seen it. So, how is it that he's so inconspicuous to his teachers???? His teacher has, however, noted his exceptional obsession with sharks. His life seems to revolve around sharks and baseball/football stats.

At this point... he's supposed to have logged "near" 1000 reading minutes. He has logged over 7000. He recently scored in the 98th percentile (nation-wide) on Academic Progress testing in math. And, he can not yet tie his shoes.

[Rachel--24]

  2kids4me said:

It may seem like a lot of work when he should "just understand" he has to give people a cart..but the neurologic differences make some easy tasks a lot harder than a NT could imagine

Is this making sense? Trying to explain something over the net is harder than it looks

It does make sense and I get the feeling that everything depends on how you talk to him....and how you ask the question.

I notice if I ask him to get me a price check on an item...before I even finish my sentence he says "No...I dont know where it is"...and he'll repeat it and very adamantly say he doesnt know. I know the he does know where things are...he can remember things better than most people.

So then I word it differently...I hold up the item and say "What aisle is this on?" Then he knows the answer and I explain exactly what I want him to do and he does it. He's actually capable of finding the item and its price much faster than some NT's. I figured out that alot has to do with wording things differently.

I think his job coaches could be doing alot better than what they do....they mostly just stand around reading magazines....or following him without really helping. Like what you said about the carts...if they explained things in the way that you did....he would probably be able to do his job and also give the customer a cart when they ask.

I've listened to the manager talk to him about it before. I thought she did ok in explaining it to him....I dont know if I could have done better. Maybe it has to be a visual thing?? Maybe you cant just explain things in the office and expect him to follow through?

He didnt really follow what she was saying. She told him about customer service being a part of his job...an important part. She explained that we have to help the customers and make them happy....if they want a cart....we have to give it to them. She explained in alot of detail. The she said "Ok...so what are you going to do?? What is your job?" He said "Bagging, and sweeping, and carts, and go-backs." So she said "What else?" And he said "Bagging". So she started all over explaining and asking the same questions...getting the same responses and starting over again.

He never added "helping customers" into his answer and he never said he would give a customer a cart. I think you're right and if it was something that was explained while actually outside with the carts....he would have caught on. He knows his other jobs...but they were not just explained to him...he was shown how to do them.

One job is punching the sweep log with his time card....it should be done every half hour...when the floor gets swept. The baggers always forget to do this..but not him. He knows and as soon as it hits the half hour he pulls out his time card and tells me "Gotta do the sweep log". It amazes me...I dont think he has an alarm to remind him or anything...he just knows .

[2kids4me]

You sound like you understand what he needs - yes, how you say something is very important.

Kathryn has to actually go through the motions, physically do it before she will know what to do.

You can tell her in great detail how to do something but unless you are there - talking her through it one step at a time - then she will forget the sequence of what to do, or stumble at the order of things.

To help you understand - I think it was in an autism magazine - a young boy with Aspergers had finished the highest level in Tae Quon do (sp?).... he was proficient in self defense as he was shown in a classroom setting.

He was mugged and beat up walking homw one night. He dint know what to do because he had never practiced his self defense in that situation - at night, outside and not in the classroom. He was not able to take what he learned and transfer it for use in a different scenario.

That may be how this boy knows how to find prices - look at it, remember the aisle and get a price. 3 steps to the sequence - if you ask him just to price it out - he cant "compute" that because he hasnt done the first 2 steps...

sandy

[diamondheart]

This is an interesting thread. I'll have to watch the movie. My nephew has Asperger's syndrome. My brother also has some Asperger traits. My Mom said he didn't talk until he was 3. They were thinking he was mentally retarded, but when he did start talking, he talked in whole sentences .

I'm sensitive to noise and light, but only when I'm really tired. Could this be some really mild Asperger's trait? I also tend to be really straight forward in my communication, and lots of people don't like it . I'm just wondering to what extent some of this stuff is genetic.

Claire

[Michi8]

  diamondheart said:

This is an interesting thread. I'll have to watch the movie. My nephew has Asperger's syndrome. My brother also has some Asperger traits. My Mom said he didn't talk until he was 3. They were thinking he was mentally retarded, but when he did start talking, he talked in whole sentences .

I'm sensitive to noise and light, but only when I'm really tired. Could this be some really mild Asperger's trait? I also tend to be really straight forward in my communication, and lots of people don't like it . I'm just wondering to what extent some of this stuff is genetic.

Claire

I've been following this thread with much interest. While I don't believe that I or my children possess the criteria for Asperger's (and this has been confirmed through our psychologist), I know that we are all very sensitive. I like the term "HSP" (Highly Sensitive Person) to describe our personalities/traits. I've found a lot rang true in the books, The Highly Sensitive Person and The Highly Sensitive Child by Elaine Aron, PhD.

She has a website here: Open Original Shared Link There are few other websites that address this as well.

Michelle

[nikki-uk]

  diamondheart said:

This is an interesting thread. I'll have to watch the movie. My nephew has Asperger's syndrome. My brother also has some Asperger traits. My Mom said he didn't talk until he was 3. They were thinking he was mentally retarded, but when he did start talking, he talked in whole sentences .

I've also been following this thread with interest as my nephew has recently been dx with being on 'the autistic spectrum'.

He's 4 yrs old and it was his lack of speech (amongst other things) that led to his dx.

[2kids4me]

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At this point... he's supposed to have logged "near" 1000 reading minutes. He has logged over 7000. He recently scored in the 98th percentile (nation-wide) on Academic Progress testing in math. And, he can not yet tie his shoes.

Sounds like Kathryn - is doing very well in grade 8 math - but cant add 2 dice together correctly.Its the contradiction of Aspergers.

Kathryn hates tag , she wont play it because people tag her too hard or when they do tag her - she says" No Thanks I dont want to be IT".

Please read all you can about Aspergers, be his advocate, insist they make accomodations for him. Any disruption is routine is very hard and it "discombobulates them". I live in Alberta and because we got a diagnosis of pervasive developmental disorder (PDD), most likely Aspergers...we got coded which gives extra funding and allows for accomodations and a teacher aide.

Kathryn would get out of sorts for various reasons - the aide would take her for a short walk inside the school to allow her to re-focus. If the class was too noisy - she could go to the library to work.

If they want to administer tests, they need to let you and your son know well ahead of time so he knows it will happen before the day starts. By reading and talking to others you will empower yourself to step and in and help develop strategies.

Please don't allow teachers ot decide to "cure him"..some professionals use those terms and try to change the child instead of nuturing talents, implementing strategies. I would highly recommend Temple Grandin's book I mentioned in an earlier post - she talks about her school experience and one creative teacher who used her fascination of doors to help her develop an extraordinary talent. Other teachers had tried to stop her "silly obsession" and made her hate school.... she went on to revolutionize cattle handling systems with her use of gates (doors) and alleys .

Hang in there and marvel at the gift - sometimes exasperating and other times awe inspiring, and humbling.

Sandy

[Ursa Major]

Sandy, your explanation about making eye contact is right in principle. But I have learned to force myself to look into people's eyes when talking to them. Unfortunately, it often comes off as a stare, that makes people uncomfortable. Other times I start feeling very confused when looking into people's eyes, and feel flustered, because I am not sure 'how you're really supposed to do it'. I have never been able to figure out how exactly you're supposed to make eye contact, and for how long......what the 'right' way is.

There are times I am doubting that I am doing it right, and can't do it at all.

Older aspies know you are expected to make eye contact when talking to others, and often try to do it to appear normal. Many times I don't really make real eye contact, but unfocus my eyes. Or I look at the person's forehead. But people don't seem to realize it, as long as you pretend to follow their rules, they are happy.

Claire, if your brother would be diagnosed, it would likely be with HFA (High Functioning Autism), because for some reason the 'experts' have decided that people that talk early have AS, and ones that have a speech delay are HFA. Even though by the time these kids turn five, you can't tell any difference any more.

My older brother did the exact same thing as your brother. He didn't talk at all until he was three, and then he spoke in perfect sentences. I talked early. But we are an awful lot the same, and I can't see the difference between AS and HFA.

My brother also never crawled. He just sat around, and rolled, and one day he pulled himself up and walked.

And yes, AS is definitely genetic. My dad quite obviously had it, and I am positive that at least three of my six brothers have AS (one is definitely NT, and the last one I'm not sure), and my sister is quite autistic, even though she thinks she isn't different at all. I've always known I am different, and felt like an alien. I've never felt I belonged anywhere, even when I am with friends. Because none of them really understand where I am coming from, and they don't realize that they usually only see my best NT imitation.

I also learn best by doing. It is so much easier for me to have somebody actually physically show me and walk me through the motions of something I do for the first time. I tried to teach myself to play the violin, by following a dvd, and instructions. I tried, but couldn't figure it out and got terribly frustrated. So, now I am taking lessons. My cute little teacher (she is 18, but already plays in the Toronto Symphony Orchestra and three other orchestras) is a 'hands on' person, and will physically move my hands/fingers into the right position if I can't figure out what to do. I am doing quite well, and I am having fun.

[jayhawkmom]

  2kids4me said:

Please read all you can about Aspergers, be his advocate, insist they make accomodations for him.

We have no diagnosis of anything. I've talked with his teacher about some of his issues, and she said that she just doesn't see him having any "real" problems in school. But, he does fine.... and then he comes home, and has meltdowns. He's amazingly calm and cool around others, and once he's in the security of his own home - he "looses his mind" so-to-speak.

He's always had an oral aversion and that issue has never gotten any better. So, now that he's gluten free, he's not wanting to eat anything, because the foods he likes are no longer available to him. I've successfully found a couple substitutions, but not too many. He's eating the same things... day in and out.

Tonight my dh brought me home chili from Wendy's - they stuck crackers in the bag. DH (who is "mostly" gluten-free opened up the crackers and shoved one in his mouth as the 8 year old walked into the kitchen. He burst into tears and had a breakdown, yelling and screaming about how unfair it is that "daddy can have the crackers."

It's now an hour later... and he's still mad as heck about this cracker.

I'm not saying no one else sees these things because they do. But, they are all people who feels secure with - not teachers or medical professionals, the people who need to see this.

He really is agreatkid, but he has a whole lot going on in his brain and I don't know how to help him. And, I don't know how to go about any type of evaluation since no one seems to believe that he HAS these issues.

[Ursa Major]

  jayhawkmom said:

We have no diagnosis of anything. I've talked with his teacher about some of his issues, and she said that she just doesn't see him having any "real" problems in school. But, he does fine.... and then he comes home, and has meltdowns. He's amazingly calm and cool around others, and once he's in the security of his own home - he "looses his mind" so-to-speak.

I'm not saying no one else sees these things because they do. But, they are all people who feels secure with - not teachers or medical professionals, the people who need to see this.

He really is agreatkid, but he has a whole lot going on in his brain and I don't know how to help him. And, I don't know how to go about any type of evaluation since no one seems to believe that he HAS these issues.

Is it at all possible to shoot little movie clips (with a small digital camera) of him when he is having these meltdowns, without him knowing it? I've heard of other people doing that, and taking this evidence to the doctor's office.

But if you are able to do that, don't allow him to be in the room when the professionals watch it. Just like you absolutely shouldn't talk about his issues in front of him, either. You don't want him to think that he is 'broken' and needs to be fixed. This world is a jungle for people like us anyway, without our self esteem being destroyed.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

NT children also can be angels at daycare or school all day--and then come home and have meltdowns. It isn't necessarily anything to do with autism (though I wouldn't rule that out); it's just a sign that when the child is home, he might be at the end of his own emotional and behavioral resources. He also might not feel "safe" to lose control and have a tantrum at school, and might be bottling it up all day til he gets home.

Children on the autistic spectrum tend to thrive on structure--which they often get at school, and often lack at home. I'm not saying that you don't have structure at home--but what an autistic child might need in the way of structure is far MORE structured than what most NT's think of as structure. Aspies like to know in advance exactly what they will be doing and when they will be doing it. They might not care why--but it is a very good idea to explain why, so they will start to put these sorts of things together for themselves (and they do!).

About the eye contact--they (or you) (or we) only need to make enough eye contact so that the other person is reassured that you are paying attention, both to the spoken language and to the visual language (body language and especially facial expression), which sometimes communicates things that can't be easily said with words. Usually, that means occasional fleeting meeting of the eyes is enough to send messages both ways. The rest of the time, focusing somewhere NEAR the person's face is good. Lookng at chin, nose, ears, or forehead (great suggestion, Ursula!) allows you to catch a sudden change in facial expression, and then change focus to the eyes for a moment or two in order to process whatever new information or change in communication there might be.

I sometimes have my kids watch movies or TV programs that I have seen before and say things like, "Now, why do you think he said that?" and " Watch his face--what do you think he is thinking? Why?" and "Oh, she said XYZ, but look at her eyebrows and her mouth--what is she doing with them that might make you think that she didn't really mean XYZ after all? Is she lying or making a mistake?"

Drama classes for NT's are IMHO even better than speech classes designed for AS kids. As long as you can find a NON-competitive drama class (i.e., they will accept anyone who signs up and only THEN assign an audition), they are perfect--they teach all these things--facial expression, vocal expression, timing, what is appropriate body language and reaction, etc--as part of the regular instructional curriculum, and they even write it into the parts that the children learn (it's called, "blocking")! What's more, it's more fun than a speech class, and they get to be with NT's as well as other kids with issues. I never liked seeing my kid in a speech class with only kids with even worse issues than his to emulate. But in drama classes, there are tons of kids with "issues" (their parents have already figured out what a good thing it is) AND kids with no discernable ones--all working together and having fun together.

[2kids4me]

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But, he does fine.... and then he comes home, and has meltdowns. He's amazingly calm and cool around others, and once he's in the security of his own home - he "looses his mind" so-to-speak

I have one NT child and one Aspie. Ursula had a fabulous idea - see if you can get it on video.

Matt (the NT) has times where he "let go" after tiring day, all you had to do was feed him #1, and allow him to rest.

With Kathryn, there is no way I can truly describe it - it was like a complete "fall apart", more than just tired or hungry, exhausted from trying to cope all day with noises and people and changed routines.

I would wrap her in a blanket all snug and warm - she preferred that to hugs... I would sit next to her and help her talk through what happned that day - often she couldnt even recall much of the day or it was disconnected bits and pieces.... so I just let her know it was okay.

Sandy

[jayhawkmom]

Gosh, I would hate to tape his meltdowns... but, I guess if that's what I must do, I've got to do it.

I honestly have to tell you... I'm absolutely terrified for others to see how he behaves when he's at home. 95% of the time... he's such a joy to be around. He's happy and sweet, very empathetic. But, he's horribly emotional, extremely fussy, and easily brought to tears by nothing.

I also have to admit... I know that I'm part of the problem.

I've been told, since he was very little, that he was going to require much structure. I'm really good about setting timers, giving advanced information regarding what's going to happen, when it's going to happen, why it's going to happen... etc. But, I have add - and even though I'm medicated, I'm "all over the place" as my husband says.

An example... I'll tell him over and over again that we are going somewhere on Saturday. We'll talk about it, discuss it at length... and then Saturday will get here, and I will have forgotten all about it, leading to everyone being rushed around, us being late - me being frustrated, and him being thrown for a loop.

I also admit... I'm afraid that if the "professionals" don't get the real picture of how he is, combined with the way I am - and I will be painted as this lunatic who's craving a diagnosis for her kid because it's the only way I can cope. Honestly... that's not the case, but I can't help but think of it.

Jay was in speech therapy for a year... he didn't even babble by 18 months. Then all of a sudden, at 2.5 - he started talking in sentences. He's reading at a much higher level than his peers - he goes to a 6th grade reading class once a week for enrichment. (He also went to the 6th grade class last year... in 2nd grade, there was no where else for him to go this year, LOL!) His teacher constantly comments on his mathematical abilities. And, keeps telling me.... "There's nothing to worry about."

That's oh-so-easy for her to say.

[lonewolf]

I've read through this thread with a lot of interest. I've suspected that my husband and several of his family member are undiagnosed "Aspies", but now am convinced. The joke definition of an NT, as written by an Aspie, pretty well describes how my husband views me. He thinks I am crazy and that he is completely normal.

He is extremely difficult to live with and refuses to compromise on anything. For example, if I want to have company (this is only 3-4 times a year because he doesn't want people over) he gets angry. When people do come over he sometimes tells them they should leave after 2 hours because it's too noisy or he'll start cleaning (like moving kitchen chairs into the living room to sweep under the table while we're trying to talk). He doesn't normally help with cleaning, but when people are over he acts like he has to clean up everything NOW. I've asked him to just go into the other room or something when he feels overwhelmed, but he won't. Now I see that maybe he can't help it, but it doesn't make it any easier to live with. I'm extremely social and it's really hard to feel so isolated. I could list dozens of examples, really. Probably the very worst is his intolerance of noise - unless he's the one making it.

Do you think that it would be a good idea to have him watch this movie? Is it the kind of thing that he would identify with and maybe say, "Ah hah" at?

[2kids4me]

  Quote

An example... I'll tell him over and over again that we are going somewhere on Saturday. We'll talk about it, discuss it at length... and then Saturday will get here, and I will have forgotten all about it, leading to everyone being rushed around, us being late - me being frustrated, and him being thrown for a loop.

It must be doubly difficult some days!

My husband is the forgetful one so we live off sticky notes as reminders.

You could get a white board or a bulletin boeard and put it in a prominent place. Put up activities a few days in advance.

Since your boy sounds like he will remember - even ask him to remind you. Kinda like: You know how I can get busy and forget, I really want to do this and not be rushed. Can you remind mommy the night before?" or if you feel he is too young for that, - write it down when you plan the activity. Tell your son that you are doing this to help you remember,. It teaches him that everyone needs help with something - even mommy.

You expressed your fears very well in your post, you have awreness about how you are with regard to remembering things. If you state it clearly as you have done, I would hope a professional would be able to help you and your son with stratgies and see how this is hard for BOTH of you.

....hang in there......

Sandy

[ianm]

Ursa Major, I have read all of your posts about AS and finally took the Aspie Test. My score was 152 out of 200, most likely an aspie. It sure does explain A LOT about my life and the gluten didn't make things any better. Eye contact is extremely difficult and painful for me but I force myself to do it any way. I don't like to be touched by anyone unless I know them really well. Even then, unless it is my girlfriend, I avoid it as much as possible. Body language is completely alien to me but I have learned enough about it to get by. I could go on and on but it is one more piece of the puzzle falling into place.

[gfp]

  lonewolf said:

Do you think that it would be a good idea to have him watch this movie? Is it the kind of thing that he would identify with and maybe say, "Ah hah" at?

Be real careful ....

I read "The curious incident of the dog..." a novel about an aspie and found it very disturbing...

Its only a tiny book and i read it on a short flight + waiting but it left me feeling very uncomfortable afterwards as when I read it I could see both sides so clearly... I was "observing" what the aspie kid was doing and realising it was not "normal" behavior while at the same time thinking OMG... that is how I would react...

I am peculiar about by books (like I'm just plain peculiar but...) I always keep books.... the only other books I have ever thrown away were VERY VERY badly written books where the authors complete lack of writing ability just made me want to vomit... I hated needful things (all 1500 pages but I didn't throw it away) ..I don't want to name the books for fear of controversy since some people seem to love em...

Let me put it this way, if you borrow a book from me I will hound you to the end of the earth to get it back... I just feel like that about almost all books... I preserve them as a remembrance of the time spent reading and Ill often handle them (told you I was weird)... I can hadle a book and bring back memories not just of reading that book but what happened that week or day... if I read 20 pages then caught a train then 20 more flicking through those pages will bring me pretty much perfect recall of every word that I heard and everything I read and saw inbetween. Its like it opens a box into my archival system...

This was very different .. I thought the book was very well written ...leastwise well written but it left me feeling nauseus...in many ways it was like being Dorian Grey looking at his picture...

sorry that's it for now, recounting the book is giving me cold chills...

[gfp]

  2kids4me said:

It must be doubly difficult some days!

My husband is the forgetful one so we live off sticky notes as reminders.

You could get a white board or a bulletin boeard and put it in a prominent place. Put up activities a few days in advance.

Since your boy sounds like he will remember - even ask him to remind you. Kinda like: You know how I can get busy and forget, I really want to do this and not be rushed. Can you remind mommy the night before?" or if you feel he is too young for that, - write it down when you plan the activity. Tell your son that you are doing this to help you remember,. It teaches him that everyone needs help with something - even mommy.

You expressed your fears very well in your post, you have awreness about how you are with regard to remembering things. If you state it clearly as you have done, I would hope a professional would be able to help you and your son with stratgies and see how this is hard for BOTH of you.

....hang in there......

Sandy

hmm... my problem is remembering what Saturday is....

I find weekdays and days of the month very abstract...

The whiteboard willprobably help but I have a theory why....

At least for me I filter out as much "irrelevance" as I can, I find it extremely frustrating when people don't get to the point... and to avoid getting angry I just switch on a filter.... my girfriend often tells me how her day was and then slips in an appointment... and then continues, often talking about colleages I don't know as if I do....

A week later she'ss say "come on were going to be late" and I have noidea what for

This sounds petty perhaps but now she writes her schedule down and embelishes it each morning .. Ill finish at XX time - we are going to XX at YY hrs but I want to be early etc.

This really helps me, it annoys her a little but she's come to realise it annoys her less than not doing it.