I Am Thinking This Is Hogwash- Super Gluten

[Wolicki]

Hi Guys

I got this email from a concerned family member today. I am thinking it's a bunch of phooey hogwash, but thought I would check in with my "experts."

"I meant to tell you this, and you might want to pass it on to Janie. When Eve was in Europe she discovered that baked goods made with wheat did not make her sick. As soon as she had a bite of bread back home, she got sick. I did a little research, and it seems that American wheat has what is known as a super gluten (or some such name) and is very hard for many, many people to digest. the European wheat, on the other hand, has a much milder gluten and does not have the consequences of American gluten. If she's interested in pursuing it, European flour can be bought online."

Hogwash or just wishful thinking?

Janie

[AlysounRI]

Janie:

There is a major NON-GMO movement in Europe where here Monsanto is King.

But wheat, except for, I imagine wild wheat did not grow in North America and had to come from Europe

when North America was settled by Europeans.

I might be able to believe that European wheat plants are less GMO than ours here, BUT I have a bit

of a hard time believing that super glutinous strains exist over in North America. I'd want to see numbers.

You can measure gluten in wheat can't you? And if so, how do you do that?

I have still had problems with everything from French bread to Yorkshire puddings to naan bread when I have been in Europe.

And I was tested negative for celiac, so I am merely gluten intolerant, it seems.

I am not quite buying that right now. But if there were analytical numbers, well, that might be a different story.

I'd like to see some of the British, and European, Aussie and Kiwi members of the forum weigh in on this one.

Because if they travelled from their homes to North America, they'd have some clear opinions.

That's just my two sous, however.

~Allison

[DonaldandAlanda Evans]

It's not true. Gluten can not be added or taken out of wheat.......they have been trying for years. Plus Hefeweizen (Wheat Beer) makes me unbelievably ill.

[VioletBlue]

Hogwash. All wheat, every strain of it contains gluten to some degree or another, even the very oldest non GMO strains. It is true wheat has been selectively bred over the centuries for a higher and higher gluten content. There are some strains that are higher and some that are lower in gluten, but they all carry the gluten protein. And we all know that it's not how much gluten, but whether there's gluten that counts.

[mushroom]

From what I have read and understand (no citations to back up this opinion) the gluten in wheat has been greatly hydbridized and concentrated. The "winter" wheat in particular, which makes the breadflour wheat, or hard wheat, has a much higher gluten content, which is why it is used for bread - to give it the elasticity and create the puffed up Wonder Bread type bread which squishes when you put any weight on it. You will probably notice in Europe that the breads tend to be denser and heavier, and therefore I suspect contain less gluten. (I am talking here about the whole grain breads, the pumpernickel and such, very heavy breads.) My husband tells me when his English grandmother went to the U.S. (originally in the 30's) she complained that they had done something with the flour because none of her recipes turned out the same, especially Yorkshire pudding.

I myself have had trouble with bread, pasta, etc., for so long I could not tell you any difference between here and the U.S. when it comes to flour. I developed my intolerances whilst living in the U.S. Although flour is flour and I do not see flour labelled as "bread flour" in New Zealand. But there is a strong resistance here to GM and GE foods, and GM corn is not to be sold for human consumption here. Too late for me because I was already strongly sensitized by American corn and now cannot eat even the NZ corn, though I used to be able to until recently. All field trials of GM/GE crops are strictly controlled so that none can escape and contaminate non-GM crops. The most hybridized, modified U.S. crops, soybeans and corn, I cannot eat. Whether there is any relationship to the GM I don't know. True to my origins, I don't believe in it and believe it to be at the root of a lot of our problems with food intolerances and the increased incidence of celiac disease since the 50's. Just as I believe that the feedlot feeding of cattle and feeding them hormones and antibiotics is the reason I cannot eat anything other than organic (grass-fed) beef in the U.S. (not to mention the corn that they feed them, and I know, we have had much debate about how well the animals digest the corn and whether any undigested corn finds its way outside the gut of cattle (leaky cattle gut ) and into the human food chain.) No one has to agree with me or take anything from my experience; I am just stating it.

But I also don't believe that anyone, once intolerant of gluten, would be able to consume the levels of gluten that must be present in any bread, even European breads.

[Takala]

Hogwash.

And I've read almost the same thing recently, so it's going round the net.

Spelt is a form of primitive wheat, more used in Europe, that has lower protein than our modern breadmaking wheat, which has been bred to have a lot. The more protein, the stickier the dough. That's probably what the person who started this dumb rumor is refering to. But it's still wheat, and it still provokes the auto immune response.

There are some people who cheat with spelt, thinking that it's not wheat so it's okay. No. And a few clerks in the stores sometimes don't know any better, or you will see Spelt bread right next to the gluten free stuff in the freezer case.

[mushroom]

Further readings re: gluten concentration

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

[Jestgar]

I think there is a difference in the wheats. While in Europe I accidentally ate wheat a few times and had no reaction whatsoever. I didn't go as far as chowing down on a slice of bread, but certainly ate enough that in the states I would have felt it immediately.

Whether its the amount of gluten, or the physical properties of the molecule that come about due to different wheat strains and growing conditions, or the genetic modifications, I don't know. I also can't eat corn or soy, but my reactions to all three are completely different, so it's not a reaction to the protein put in by Monsanto, although it could be a reaction to some downstream protein that is unique to each plant, that has been modified by the Monsanto gene.

[Mango04]

I'm American but have been living in Europe for a couple years. I think your family member's claim is very, very plausible.

[gary'sgirl]

Hey there all. I just thought if you hadn't read it yet you might like to read this article by Scott Adams My link.

It is an interesting study done on an older spelt grain that does not seem to have the same effect that all other gluten grains seem to have with people intolerant to gluten.

Read it! It is interesting.

[jackay]

The European wheat, on the other hand, has a much milder gluten and does not have the consequences of American gluten.

Hogwash or just wishful thinking?

I would have to vote Hogwash except for possibly the very mildly gluten intolerant. If European gluten didn't have consequences, why are there Celiac and gluten intolerant Europeans getting sick from their own wheat gluten? This isn't just a problem in America.

[StephanieGF]

Well, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Do I think a Celiac could eat European flour? NO. That is hogwash. Do I think non-hybridized wheat has less gluten? Oh yes, probably very true. But it is too late for us afflicted people now.

I think it very likely that the high gluten content in wheat flour grown in the country today along with all of the processed foods, personal care products, etc., that contain wheat are overdosing people. Those who carry the genes for Celiacs or gluten intolerance and having these genes trigger. Hypothetically, I do think that if some individuals had grown up in a different country or different time (when/where less gluten was grown or used) they never would have developed Celiac's Disease. I think things are only going to get worse and we are seeing the tip of the iceberg of gluten intolerance.

Oh, and I think Monsanto is evil.

[Generic]

It probably is true to a degree. European wheat and or spelt does a have a lower content of gluten. But just because they were able to eat it without getting sick, it doesn't mean they aren't causing silent damage. In the beginning of my celiac I was told I culd eat spelt bread and did. If I ate one slice I was fine. But if I ate 2 slices I got the classic stomach problems. I figured out pretty quickly that it was not gluten free. By me eating one slice I was getting silent damage.

[Takala]

I think a lot of us died at an earlier age of other things until the past 100 years or so before the side effects from the celiac or gluten intolerance autoimmunity got to us.

With the invention of refrigeration, antibiotics, modern clean water and hygiene, and women being able to survive childbirth, a lot of things changed, like a lot of people survived long enough to reproduce and pass the genes along.

The development of the "super gluten" wheats for breadmaking didn't help much, though.

[benjihall]

I have a couple of points to add to this conversation that I think are really important. It amazes me that none of these issues are being discussed out in the open. Pardon me if they have been discussed in other forums as I am new to this.

There seems to be different reactions to gluten. Many people have stomach issues which eventually lead to celiac. Others, like myself, have brain fog and muscular tightness. Mine was so bad that I was close to being crippled. It has taken me years to get back to a livable level of tension in my legs, but I'll never get back the years I lost not being able to sleep. For all I know there are more issues than these. Because there seems to be such diverse reactions, I truly believe there are multiple "allergies". I believe that I am not truly "allergic" to gluten as I was eating it my whole life without issue. (I'm 43) It was only when the GMO wheat became prevalent that my problems started. Since I've been "diagnosed", like this is truly an illness, and off gluten, I have tested eating wheat in non-GMO countries and have had no problems. Ireland (whole wheat), New Zealand (many varieties), Australia (bread) and Thailand (burrito). In fact, I felt better than I have in years. For me, that proved that Monsanto's grand experiment is hurting me and probably many others. I would love to hear from others that have tried this or are willing to. That being said, I believe that there are also many others that would be sick from any kind of gluten, GMO or not. Whether the wheat has changed for them I can't say.

Considering the staggering number of people that are afflicted by this and the rapid rate it is increasing, it is astounding that scientific studies are not being done to determine the true cause. There is no way that millions of people that once ate gluten without issue all of a sudden have problems. If this happened in any other industry there would be investigations and law suits and crazy uproar. Gluten sufferers are told to adjust their diet and live with it. No one can truly be blamed as we all have different diets and react differently to them. What a bunch of crap. If we can prove that poison does damage to your body we can surely prove if GMO wheat does as well. We need to unite and demand research. I am personally willing to be tested to prove what I know in my heart and help change things for the better.

[mushroom]

I have a couple of points to add to this conversation that I think are really important. It amazes me that none of these issues are being discussed out in the open. Pardon me if they have been discussed in other forums as I am new to this.

There seems to be different reactions to gluten. Many people have stomach issues which eventually lead to celiac. Others, like myself, have brain fog and muscular tightness. Mine was so bad that I was close to being crippled. It has taken me years to get back to a livable level of tension in my legs, but I'll never get back the years I lost not being able to sleep. For all I know there are more issues than these. Because there seems to be such diverse reactions, I truly believe there are multiple "allergies". I believe that I am not truly "allergic" to gluten as I was eating it my whole life without issue. (I'm 43) It was only when the GMO wheat became prevalent that my problems started. Since I've been "diagnosed", like this is truly an illness, and off gluten, I have tested eating wheat in non-GMO countries and have had no problems. Ireland (whole wheat), New Zealand (many varieties), Australia (bread) and Thailand (burrito). In fact, I felt better than I have in years. For me, that proved that Monsanto's grand experiment is hurting me and probably many others. I would love to hear from others that have tried this or are willing to. That being said, I believe that there are also many others that would be sick from any kind of gluten, GMO or not. Whether the wheat has changed for them I can't say.

Considering the staggering number of people that are afflicted by this and the rapid rate it is increasing, it is astounding that scientific studies are not being done to determine the true cause. There is no way that millions of people that once ate gluten without issue all of a sudden have problems. If this happened in any other industry there would be investigations and law suits and crazy uproar. Gluten sufferers are told to adjust their diet and live with it. No one can truly be blamed as we all have different diets and react differently to them. What a bunch of crap. If we can prove that poison does damage to your body we can surely prove if GMO wheat does as well. We need to unite and demand research. I am personally willing to be tested to prove what I know in my heart and help change things for the better.

Hi Benji:

I don't know where you are currently based, but we obviously share some of the same concerns.

Like you, for years I shared that problem with my legs - a total tightness, like every ligament. tendon and muscle was stretched taut and would snap at least excuse. I underwent years of excruciating massage in order to be able to sleep at night. Nothing could relax those legs, daytime, nightime, relaxation exercises - the more I focused on trying to relax them the tighter they became I could, and still cannot, bear anyone to touch or grab my legs, nor can my sister who is also "gluten intolerant" (her daughter is a diagnosed celiac). There are ramifications to the modification of gluten, and genetic engineering and modification of crops, far beyond what the scientists engaged im this research are willing to contemplate. Once you start messing around with Mother Nature, someone has to pay the price. Unfortunately it is we poor souls. And we are but a voice crying in the wilderness of the crowds who insist we must genetically modify to feed ever greater numbers of us - for what purpose pray tell?? Surely the world does not need more peoples?? Fewer would be better!

[detritus]

Hi Benji:

I don't know where you are currently based, but we obviously share some of the same concerns.

Like you, for years I shared that problem with my legs - a total tightness, like every ligament. tendon and muscle was stretched taut and would snap at least excuse. I underwent years of excruciating massage in order to be able to sleep at night. Nothing could relax those legs, daytime, nightime, relaxation exercises - the more I focused on trying to relax them the tighter they became I could, and still cannot, bear anyone to touch or grab my legs, nor can my sister who is also "gluten intolerant" (her daughter is a diagnosed celiac). There are ramifications to the modification of gluten, and genetic engineering and modification of crops, far beyond what the scientists engaged im this research are willing to contemplate. Once you start messing around with Mother Nature, someone has to pay the price. Unfortunately it is we poor souls. And we are but a voice crying in the wilderness of the crowds who insist we must genetically modify to feed ever greater numbers of us - for what purpose pray tell?? Surely the world does not need more peoples?? Fewer would be better!

SUE MONSANTO!!!!! Gluten-intolerant group lawsuit!

[Farmer's Daughter]

Hi Guys

I got this email from a concerned family member today. I am thinking it's a bunch of phooey hogwash, but thought I would check in with my "experts."

"I meant to tell you this, and you might want to pass it on to Janie. When Eve was in Europe she discovered that baked goods made with wheat did not make her sick. As soon as she had a bite of bread back home, she got sick. I did a little research, and it seems that American wheat has what is known as a super gluten (or some such name) and is very hard for many, many people to digest. the European wheat, on the other hand, has a much milder gluten and does not have the consequences of American gluten. If she's interested in pursuing it, European flour can be bought online."

Hogwash or just wishful thinking?

Janie

I signed on to this site just to tell you that the "super gluten" wheat is not hogwash. About 3 years ago at a party at my house I told my friends that I was gluten sensitive. One of them is a research scientist. He replied at once . . . "Oh, yes, Super-Gluten wheat. It was developed about 12 years ago (now it would be about 15 year) as a way to end famine all over the world. I knew we were in for trouble, because whet has onlt been in the human diet for a few thousand years, and our bodies have not completely learned to digest ordinary wheat. The body just can't handle the excess protein in super-gluten wheat."

My brother was alergic to wheat as a kid, and I remember my Mom making special bread for him. I was not affected at that time, but am now. It's hard to put my finger on symptoms, but when I cut out gluten a sharp pain that I had had in my shoulder for over a year just disappeared. I had been to specialists and to the spine clinic they referred me to and noone could find a cause for that pain. Now it's gone.

I believe the Super-Gluten wheat was developed by Monsanto, though it could have been one of the other big agricultural research firms. They thought they were doing a good thing, but didn't have the background to understand that our ability to utilize foods develops slowly, lagging behind the gradual mutation of the food itself.

Don't even get me started on margarine, or on Canola oil (made from poisonous rapeseed oil) which was developed as a paint base--not a food product. And they tout is as healthy--NOT! (Try cold processed safflower oil as a safe, no-flaver oil).

[Wolicki]

I signed on to this site just to tell you that the "super gluten" wheat is not hogwash. About 3 years ago at a party at my house I told my friends that I was gluten sensitive. One of them is a research scientist. He replied at once . . . "Oh, yes, Super-Gluten wheat. It was developed about 12 years ago (now it would be about 15 year) as a way to end famine all over the world. I knew we were in for trouble, because whet has onlt been in the human diet for a few thousand years, and our bodies have not completely learned to digest ordinary wheat. The body just can't handle the excess protein in super-gluten wheat."

My brother was alergic to wheat as a kid, and I remember my Mom making special bread for him. I was not affected at that time, but am now. It's hard to put my finger on symptoms, but when I cut out gluten a sharp pain that I had had in my shoulder for over a year just disappeared. I had been to specialists and to the spine clinic they referred me to and noone could find a cause for that pain. Now it's gone.

I believe the Super-Gluten wheat was developed by Monsanto, though it could have been one of the other big agricultural research firms. They thought they were doing a good thing, but didn't have the background to understand that our ability to utilize foods develops slowly, lagging behind the gradual mutation of the food itself.

Don't even get me started on margarine, or on Canola oil (made from poisonous rapeseed oil) which was developed as a paint base--not a food product. And they tout is as healthy--NOT! (Try cold processed safflower oil as a safe, no-flaver oil).

I agree that Super Gluten exists (no thanks to Monsanto). My original point was that the suggestion is that lower gluten flour would not make us sick. Since tiny bits of cc make me violently ill, I would not attempt to eat a low gluten bread product.

[okieinalaska]

Since I've been "diagnosed", like this is truly an illness, and off gluten, I have tested eating wheat in non-GMO countries and have had no problems. Ireland (whole wheat), New Zealand (many varieties), Australia (bread) and Thailand (burrito). In fact, I felt better than I have in years.

I am still new to all this and have been reading lots and learning. I saw a chart recently with the incidence of Celiac in different countries. I just wanted to point out that if their wheat is indeed so very different, why then does Ireland (I remember being mentioned on the graph specifically) have a very high population with celiac? And not to mention a lot of Europe as well?

My neighbor tried to tell me that gluten free bread still had wheat in it. I said no it doesn't, it has potato starch, rice flour, etc, etc. He tried to argue that when they process the wheat the gluten is removed and they have to put it back in later. So gluten free bread is just made with the wheat flour but not putting the gluten back in. : (

[txplowgirl]

My neighbor tried to tell me that gluten free bread still had wheat in it. I said no it doesn't, it has potato starch, rice flour, etc, etc. He tried to argue that when they process the wheat the gluten is removed and they have to put it back in later. So gluten free bread is just made with the wheat flour but not putting the gluten back in. : (

Now, that is hogwash!

[T.H.]

I just wanted to point out that if their wheat is indeed so very different, why then does Ireland (I remember being mentioned on the graph specifically) have a very high population with celiac? And not to mention a lot of Europe as well?

I was thinking the same thing, essentially. Or maybe it's more that the wheat may be different, but it is still causing the same issues. The studies that show 1 in 133 people are celiac positive was done in Europe first, and America second. So whatever is the issue, GMO and high-gluten wheat can't be the only contributors to the problem.

[ravenwoodglass]

I was thinking the same thing, essentially. Or maybe it's more that the wheat may be different, but it is still causing the same issues. The studies that show 1 in 133 people are celiac positive was done in Europe first, and America second. So whatever is the issue, GMO and high-gluten wheat can't be the only contributors to the problem.

Yea celiac has been around for a long time, long before GMO and high gluten wheat were even thought of. We do get a lot more wheat in our diet than previous generations though as it is in so much processed stuff. A little over a hundred years ago if we wanted bread it was a half day process to make it for many folks and food didn't come out of a can or a cardboard box. I think celiac has always been with us but with the high amounts of it we now consume combined with our high stress lifestyles and the ease of travel spreading viruses around that would have been more localized a hundred years ago more of us are being triggered. We also are getting more recognized lately so folks like myself who were once diagnosed with multiple problems are being diagnosed with the cause, celiac, rather than just medicated for the arthritis, tummy troubles, migraines etc that we were even twenty years ago.