Gluten-Free Eggs

[dilettantesteph]

I can't find a better diagram.  It concerns me that the information comes from someone's blog, is a drawing and doesn't appear to have any backing.  A search of the author's name did not turn up any credentials.

 

I did find this from the USDA: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/egg-products-preparation/shell-eggs-from-farm-to-table/CT_Index/!ut/p/a1/jZFRb4IwFIV_Db7VFlACS8zCSIw4BRe2ibyYCqWQAG3aKnO_ftUlS2Z0s3257f1Oeu4pzGAKsw4faopVzTrcnM6Zs0UvyDG9AM1jz5yiMHp_iZ-DALnJWAObP4DIvlN_Y_noP_38jgcssQyWFGYcqwrUXclgSokCuJM9ERKmJWMFkLgk6ghKnCsgK0KUbhBKARes2OdK6oJwLM7BwFQTTQN0X4JSsFbLRAsUAwrvGgLT4HUbdgX5gGuY_TaITL3DyE5Gs3lko3h0CVxJ8Bu4HZHOgDZsd_6ujd_tbFcPK0hJBBHDvdDXlVL8wUAG6vt-mLOGCVywIWUHA-XSQAlWepxakcd8ssKUDPKqbgquqw63ZILpNgwSw7SmwVMcLfCR7dUgr4uJaY1Nx7KskeN63uCHP1FrgTkn4pqjikkF00snkLdv6efCn6F61a5d6X8BA0y58g!!/#3

 

It says: "Bacteria can be on the outside of a shell egg. That's because the egg exits the hen's body through the same passageway as feces is excreted. That's why eggs are required to be washed at the processing plant. All USDA graded eggs and most large volume processors follow the washing step with a sanitizing rinse at the processing plant. It is also possible for eggs to become infected by Salmonella Enteritidis fecal contamination through the pores of the shells after they're laid."

 

That is why you aren't supposed to eat raw eggs.

[Gemini]

WOW!  This is one dead horse people continue to beat.......

 

As for not eating raw eggs........I am not giving up gluten-free cookie dough!

[kareng]

I can't find a better diagram.  It concerns me that the information comes from someone's blog, is a drawing and doesn't appear to have any backing.  A search of the author's name did not turn up any credentials.

 

I did find this from the USDA: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/egg-products-preparation/shell-eggs-from-farm-to-table/CT_Index/!ut/p/a1/jZFRb4IwFIV_Db7VFlACS8zCSIw4BRe2ibyYCqWQAG3aKnO_ftUlS2Z0s3257f1Oeu4pzGAKsw4faopVzTrcnM6Zs0UvyDG9AM1jz5yiMHp_iZ-DALnJWAObP4DIvlN_Y_noP_38jgcssQyWFGYcqwrUXclgSokCuJM9ERKmJWMFkLgk6ghKnCsgK0KUbhBKARes2OdK6oJwLM7BwFQTTQN0X4JSsFbLRAsUAwrvGgLT4HUbdgX5gGuY_TaITL3DyE5Gs3lko3h0CVxJ8Bu4HZHOgDZsd_6ujd_tbFcPK0hJBBHDvdDXlVL8wUAG6vt-mLOGCVywIWUHA-XSQAlWepxakcd8ssKUDPKqbgquqw63ZILpNgwSw7SmwVMcLfCR7dUgr4uJaY1Nx7KskeN63uCHP1FrgTkn4pqjikkF00snkLdv6efCn6F61a5d6X8BA0y58g!!/#3

 

It says: "Bacteria can be on the outside of a shell egg. That's because the egg exits the hen's body through the same passageway as feces is excreted. That's why eggs are required to be washed at the processing plant. All USDA graded eggs and most large volume processors follow the washing step with a sanitizing rinse at the processing plant. It is also possible for eggs to become infected by Salmonella Enteritidis fecal contamination through the pores of the shells after they're laid."

 

That is why you aren't supposed to eat raw eggs.

 

 

Ok.....  but the question was gluten inside an egg....    This link does say that the eggs are washed on the outside.

 

which leads me back to - eat them or don't - for whatever reason. 

 

 

To me, this appears to be the "Extra Super  Sensitive" answer - If you are seriously worried about the eggs but want them anyway - you have to grow your own or find someone to do it for you to your specifications.

[Shell156]

Hmmm... This is interesting. I don't react to any eggs but I just wanted to offer support for MJ_S and dilettantesteph.

I understand that we don't want to scare people into eating absolutely nothing, but both of their experiences sound valid to me. While we don't want to post random information on the internet , stories from thoughtful people are paramount to learning. Narratives are so important especially here since not all research has been done!

I appreciate scientific research and use it a ton. However just because their experience has not been proven by science does not mean it's not true.

I think what they are trying to say is please eat eggs, but if you find react, try a gluten free feed egg source . If you do not react to eggs fed gluten free feed, then you can continue to enjoy eggs. Hurrah !!

I'm a big fan of being mindful and paying attention to what makes you feel best

[dilettantesteph]

I think what they are trying to say is please eat eggs, but if you find react, try a gluten free feed egg source . If you do not react to eggs fed gluten free feed, then you can continue to enjoy eggs. Hurrah !!

 

 

Thank you for understanding the point that I was trying to make.  Thank you for restating it in a way that might make sense to others.  I find eggs a valuable addition to my diet.

[IrishHeart]

Hmmm... This is interesting. I don't react to any eggs but I just wanted to offer support for MJ_S and dilettantesteph.

I understand that we don't want to scare people into eating absolutely nothing, but both of their experiences sound valid to me. While we don't want to post random information on the internet , stories from thoughtful people are paramount to learning. Narratives are so important especially here since not all research has been done!

I appreciate scientific research and use it a ton. However just because their experience has not been proven by science does not mean it's not true.

I think what they are trying to say is please eat eggs, but if you find react, try a gluten free feed egg source . If you do not react to eggs fed gluten free feed, then you can continue to enjoy eggs. Hurrah !!

I'm a big fan of being mindful and paying attention to what makes you feel best

 

 

and I will reiterate what I said recently on another seemingly " innocent post" asking about pineapple until it became a giant bag of paranoia.

 

No one is discounting anyone's discomfort from eating eggs. Not at all!

 

We all recognize other food intolerances (I have some myself!) and a histamine intolerance.

 

(I could not eat eggs for YEARS)

 

We are saying it is not a gluten issue,. 

 

 

here is what I said on that thread:

Some of us gave simple answers in response. My opinion (for what that is still worth around here after all this time is....)  "probably not, hon. Maybe something else caused your discomfort."

It's pineapple. It's gluten free. I eat it. 

 

Some gave elaborate "what ifs" and other various scenarios...because, well, we may be construed as a "helpful bunch" with lots of stories to tell. LOL

 

And it's now JULY 31, and I kept watching this thread --purely out of curiosity just for this one sole 

purpose....to see if the OP ever comes back to say anything.

 

She has not returned to utter a peep.  And as happens often, by now,  she's probably thinking "I'm fine now, it was just  a bit of gastritis... and I'm sorry I asked". 

 

Just wanted to share my observations.  

 

 

 

SAME THING HAPPENED HERE.

 

NICE NEW PERSON ASKS ABOUT EGGS....PEOPLE SCARE HER OFF.....SHE HAS NOT COME BACK. :(thiS HAPPENS OFTEN!

 

AND IT BECOMES A PIT OF SPECULATION, ANXIETY AND UNNECESSARY CONCERN.

 

IT'S AN EGG. IT'S GLUTEN FREE. EAT THEM IF YOU TOLERATE THEM. BUT THERE IS NO GLUTEN BEING PASSED FROM THE CHICKEN TO THE EGG........ PERIOD.

 

not A SINGLE SCIENTIFIC SOURCE. NO CELIAC RESEARCHERS SAYING ANYTHING ALARMING ABOUT EGGS AND GLUTEN!!!

 

THIS SHOULD APPEAL TO THE SCIENTISTS IN THE 'GROUP' AND ANY OTHER REASONABLE PERSON READING THIS THREAD.

 

ps. THE CAPS ARE NOT BECAUSE I AM YELLING LOL  

 

IT'S TO SET THIS MESSAGE APART FROM MY PREVIOUS ONE  .

 

PEACE OUT. IH

[Bear with me]

I wuz tinking 'bout saying sumting 'bout eggs being gluten-free, but I chickened out. Maybe somebody will egg me on. Eggs work for me.

[GottaSki]

The incredible edible egg! Recently got them back in moderation...so thankful to have them back in my safe foods. Never removed due to gluten...eggs are gluten-free and one of the best portable protein sources ever!

[IrishHeart]

I wuz tinking 'bout saying sumting 'bout eggs being gluten-free, but I chickened out. Maybe somebody will egg me on. Eggs work for me.

 

 

EGGsactly! beary Smart bear.

[dilettantesteph]

The OP asked this: "I've read that people who are super-sensitive like me can sometimes react to eggs if the hens were fed gluten. Have any of you found that there some truth to this?"

 

I answered with my personal experience.  I reacted to eggs.  Later I found that I can eat pasture fed eggs that don't get supplemental feed in the summer and I freeze these for the winter. 

 

Did I do something wrong?

[nvsmom]

The OP asked this: "I've read that people who are super-sensitive like me can sometimes react to eggs if the hens were fed gluten. Have any of you found that there some truth to this?"

 

I answered with my personal experience.  I reacted to eggs.  Later I found that I can eat pasture fed eggs that don't get supplemental feed in the summer and I freeze these for the winter. 

 

Did I do something wrong?

 

I think the disagreement is coming from the fact that you were not reacting to gluten in an egg (because as far as tests can find, gluten is not there) but to the egg itself. The chicken that made that egg was eating grains (with gluten in it) and that resulted in an egg that did not agree with you, but it is not because you were reacting to gluten.  It is an intolerance to the egg from a grain fed chicken but not a gluten reaction.  It's just like the fact that I feel pain when I eat apples but it's not because my apple rolled on flour on the grocery conveyor belt or because wheat was in the compost.  KWIM?

 

So I guess technically someone who considers themselves super sensitive (although I often consider it super-reactive rather than super sensitive) could react to eggs from gluten fed chickens, but it's not a gluten reaction, just like some will react to apples or tomatoes or coffee - it's not a gluten reaction (although in the short term it feels identical to me).

 

I'm glad you found eggs that work for you.

[dilettantesteph]

I think the disagreement is coming from the fact that you were not reacting to gluten in an egg (because as far as tests can find, gluten is not there) but to the egg itself. The chicken that made that egg was eating grains (with gluten in it) and that resulted in an egg that did not agree with you, but it is not because you were reacting to gluten.  It is an intolerance to the egg from a grain fed chicken but not a gluten reaction.  It's just like the fact that I feel pain when I eat apples but it's not because my apple rolled on flour on the grocery conveyor belt or because wheat was in the compost.  KWIM?

 

So I guess technically someone who considers themselves super sensitive (although I often consider it super-reactive rather than super sensitive) could react to eggs from gluten fed chickens, but it's not a gluten reaction, just like some will react to apples or tomatoes or coffee - it's not a gluten reaction (although in the short term it feels identical to me).

 

I'm glad you found eggs that work for you.

I don't understand how this relates to what I said.  I said "I don't know if it is the feed, or something else about the winter, like not being in the sun."  

[beth01]

I am just explaining this from what I see out of this whole thread.  And I would like to state that I didn't pipe in until supposed research articles were brought up that had no scientific bearing as to the original subject, only someone's mapped out view of getting from point A to C but skipping B. It bothers me when people compare apples to oranges, I would never put apples in my orange chicken.  But any who, from my point of view: when some things that are proven to be scientific fact are contradicted without scientific backing and just based on personal experience only, it can be misleading to others that don't have years of diagnosed celiac experience under their belts.  Frankly if we all think about it, we all have so many quirks in our diets that any number of things can cause glutening symptoms and sometimes we aren't even looking in the right direction.  You could be blaming the apple when it could be the orange. I am four months into this and I spend so much time trying to find hidden sources of gluten when I feel ill that I totally missed the soy that made me feel like crap for two solid weeks ( can't get off the couch, sleep all day, a few trips to the doctor, sick). In my defense since I do keep a diary, I didn't buy the new product, my boyfriend did and never really looked at the sticks as I was putting it on anything I would normally put butter on, so I wasn't looking in that direction.  Thought I was doing myself a favor by staying away from butter due to a dairy issue, boy was I wrong.  Quit using the butter substitute and felt like a new person almost a day later.  We as new people have enough things to look out for than searching for hidden problems, problems that so far are proven to not be hidden or a problem. I say so far, because like I said before, I am not discounting anyone's sensitivities.  And to me from personal experience, it seems so hard to figure out in the beginning just how "sensitive" you are to a glutening ( whether it be from a crumb or eating something <20 ppm and having a reaction) because it seems almost everything bothers your stomach.  And no matter if this is under the " super sensitive" or not, anyone can read it. If anyone has a "sensitivity" that is scientifically proven to not cause a problem, someone is going to post the data that states " gluten or such is not found in wherever" just so people don't go looking for problems where they aren't. Once again, not to discount a sensitivity.  The non " super sensitive's" are not picking on those who are sensitive, just stating scientific fact.  And hey, since there is so much to be learned, it might someday be disproven.  But honestly, no matter how it is worded it makes those that try to make a point of it not being fact, sound insensitive to other's sensitivities.  It's a never ending, vicious cycle.

 

A celiac's diet is so open to interpretation in general due to the fact that it isn't just gluten we all have a problem with, there is so much more and it varies so much from person to person. The only thing we all as a whole have in common is gluten. From there we are all snowflakes, no two celiacs are the same.

[dilettantesteph]

The only scientific  information I gave was from the USDA.

[LauraTX]

...From there we are all snowflakes, no two celiacs are the same.

 

I am going to use this line in the future, haha

[IrishHeart]

Well, we may manifest different symptoms yes.....and we may have different challenges, other AI diseases in addition to celiac (diabetes, lupus, thyroid, OA, RA, etc....or other food intolerances,  but here is the part I always wish to point out: we are all alike in this one regard:

 

A smidge of gluten sparks the autoimmune response. In ANY celiac gut. Period.

 

Why does that make us "different"? It doesn't!

 

Does that mean we are all "super sensitive" then? No. This concept means that some may react more violently with more obvious symptoms...like nausea or diarrhea, etc.........but we are ALL in the same boat. 

 

I usually have symptoms shortly after trace CC...they run the gamut from D to cramping, sweating, insomnia, hair loss, joint pain, muscle pain, foggy mind, exhaustion etc.,

but they pass in a week or so. I think I am "very sensitive" to trace gluten as a result --as does my GI doctor. 

 

However...

 

It's just that most of us don't talk incessantly about it, let it rule us, make us paranoid or wonder about things like eggs, toilet paper rolls,

books, the soil a potato is grown in or any other number of bizarre speculative ideas I read on a daily basis on a number of websites.

 

If anyone reads the research about celiac, you will see that the ingestion of gluten causes the EXACT SAME AUTOIMMUNE CASCADE in everyone.  It's not exclusive or special.

[Gemini]

Very nice post, IrishHeart, and I couldn't agree more!   

[dilettantesteph]

The science does not agree with you, Irishheart:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17209192

"After a baseline evaluation (t0), patients were assigned to ingest daily for 90 d a capsule containing 0, 10, or 50 mg gluten."

"One patient (challenged with 10 mg gluten) developed a clinical relapse."

The others did not.  That "smidge" of gluten did not cause a response in those patients, only in the one.

 

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/86/1/260.1.long

"The study by Catassi et al also implies that minor gluten contamination was not harmful to most of the patients."

"As the study by Catassi et al (1) showed, celiac disease patients respond individually to small amounts of gluten. The individual variability denotes that the treatment should be individual too."

[dilettantesteph]

Also: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/FoodScienceResearch/UCM264152.pdf

Health Hazard Assessment for Gluten Exposure in Individuals with Celiac Disease:

"Available evidence suggests that many aspects of the response of those afflicted with celiac disease to a gluten challenge vary widely. "

"Because of the significant degree of individual variability in the sensitivity and responsiveness to gluten found in those with celiac disease and the apparently narrow margin in the dose level between the no and low adverse effect levels, the UFs used in the safety assessment may not be adequate. Other UFs may be warranted to provide a sufficient level of protection for gluten-sensitive individuals, especially those who are the most sensitive within thissubgroup of individuals with celiac disease,"

[LauraTX]

The science does not agree with you, Irishheart:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17209192

"After a baseline evaluation (t0), patients were assigned to ingest daily for 90 d a capsule containing 0, 10, or 50 mg gluten."

"One patient (challenged with 10 mg gluten) developed a clinical relapse."

The others did not.  That "smidge" of gluten did not cause a response in those patients, only in the one.

 

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/86/1/260.1.long

"The study by Catassi et al also implies that minor gluten contamination was not harmful to most of the patients."

"As the study by Catassi et al (1) showed, celiac disease patients respond individually to small amounts of gluten. The individual variability denotes that the treatment should be individual too."

 

 

Hi Steph,

While a "smidge" is not really a quantifiable/debatable amount...either way, I am having trouble understanding what you are wanting to debate.  If you would like to discuss the amount of gluten it takes to cause the autoimmune reaction, I can separate this into another post in the proper category and you may get more replies in regard to that there.

[dilettantesteph]

Irishheart seems to be saying, in the super sensitive section, without any reference to evidence, that it is not true that some celiacs are sensitive to lower levels of gluten than others.  She says that it is just that some celiacs are more paranoid than others.  I was trying to show some of the science that says otherwise.  There are amounts of gluten to which some react and some do not.  I gave references to medical studies, or reviews of medical studies with references.

 

I think that Irishheart put this comment in this egg thread to show that my reactions to eggs from pasture raised chickens after they started getting their supplemental feed in the winter must be due to paranoia rather than anything else.  Both years it happened, I didn't know that the feed had been added until after I was sick, so that doesn't fit the facts very well.

 

The intent from the beginning was not to make people who don't have problems with eggs to get worried.  It was to suggest that those who do have problems with eggs might want to try pasture raised chicken eggs to see if those might be OK.

[GottaSki]

I read Irish's responses differently. As arguably one of the most sensitive individuals on this forum - have become what we joked about for years "BubbleGirl"....

For over four years I have understood that many of the items I thought I was getting gluten from cc or other sources in actuality I was reacting to something else. Were these reactions triggered by celiac? In a way, my digestive system was destroyed from decades of undiagnosed celiac disease with mast cell disorder.

Every person with Celiac Disease needs to avoid all gluten as ingesting it does start the autoimmune cascade. I would argue that this cascade is different in each individual because we are each unique.

For me I much prefer language that unites us as those with Celiac Disease....there is enough trendy nonsense out there causing us problems.

Like it or not....many newly diagnosed or folks just starting to learn the facts about celiac disease are not celiac.com forum savvy enough to understand when someone is speaking as a "super-sensitive" which is why many of us try to keep these threads understandable for folks new to all things gluten-free.

At any given time there are between 400 and 1000 guests viewing the information in these posts. Now think about how many folks become active here. I have seen mainstream media quote posts on this forum. These are just a few of the many reasons I always answer folks from the facts known of celiac disease today and then from my own personal autoimmune puzzle.

I am no longer a moderator, but would call this thread done if I were.

[LauraTX]

Yep, It's done.  

[John Burlingame]

I think the obvious answer is that there is far less gluten in oats that may be cc'd as compared to actual wheat. Whatever is in the egg, whether it be at a very low ppm's of gluten threshold or a broken down metabolite that's causing the issue, is not enough to affect me.

 

I'd love for science to research this and get back to us.

 

In the meantime, it's not about what I believe. I'm just relating what I've observed for myself over a lot of painful trial and error. I do what works for me now and keeps me able to eat eggs without being sick.

Here you go science to research on soy with eggs and chicken, Im sure this applies to gluten as well https://etd.ohiolink.edu/ap/10?0::NO:10:P10_ACCESSION_NUM:osu1236706764

[GF Lover]

This Paper does not talk about gluten in any way shape or form.  Eggs are a naturally gluten free food, as is chicken.  Please do not assume this study applies to anything but soy.

 

Colleen