Need To Make Vegan Gluten-Free Rolls...recipe Help?

[Gilgulis]

Hello! I work in a restaurant and am a reasonably experienced baker, but have no experience making gluten-free breads. I've read some, but I'm sure the knowledge base here far exceeds some light reading.

 

I will be doing recipe testing for a new menu item, which will be a sandwich on a vegan, gluten-free bun. I realize there are limitations to how gluten-free we can claim to be - we are planning to do large batches of buns and freeze them to allow for extra cleaning of work spaces and equipment to limit cross contamination, but it's a kitchen with flour in it. Buying buns is not an option. Quality matters much more than price of ingredients, since we can just factor the cost into the menu price. I would like to avoid using gluten-free flour mixes, and I have the go-ahead to buy various ingredients. The goal here is to make ~4" diameter round buns, as bread-like and delicious as possible, probably topped with sesame seeds.

 

So far I have:

 

Flours:

 

tapioca starch

white rice flour

brown rice flour

almond flour

corn starch

potato starch

chickpea flour

 

Gelatinizers:

 

flax seeds

chia seeds

xantham gum (presumably it's either xantham or the seeds)

 

Dough conditioners/enrichments:

 

soy lecithin (an emulsifier to help soften texture)

almond or soy milk

 

salt

yeast

olive oil (preferred fat for this sandwich)

sesame seeds to top

vinegar?

 

 

I'd welcome help any way it's offered - recipe suggestions, links to well-regarded resources, old posts that deal with vegan/gluten-free buns... It's just a lot to sort through for a newbie.

 

Thank you!

[kareng]

Hello! I work in a restaurant and am a reasonably experienced baker, but have no experience making gluten-free breads. I've read some, but I'm sure the knowledge base here far exceeds some light reading.

 

I will be doing recipe testing for a new menu item, which will be a sandwich on a vegan, gluten-free bun. I realize there are limitations to how gluten-free we can claim to be - we are planning to do large batches of buns and freeze them to allow for extra cleaning of work spaces and equipment to limit cross contamination, but it's a kitchen with flour in it. Buying buns is not an option. Quality matters much more than price of ingredients, since we can just factor the cost into the menu price. I would like to avoid using gluten-free flour mixes, and I have the go-ahead to buy various ingredients. The goal here is to make ~4" diameter round buns, as bread-like and delicious as possible, probably topped with sesame seeds.

 

So far I have:

 

Flours:

 

tapioca starch

white rice flour

brown rice flour

almond flour

corn starch

potato starch

chickpea flour

 

Gelatinizers:

 

flax seeds

chia seeds

xantham gum (presumably it's either xantham or the seeds)

 

Dough conditioners/enrichments:

 

soy lecithin (an emulsifier to help soften texture)

almond or soy milk

 

salt

yeast

olive oil (preferred fat for this sandwich)

sesame seeds to top

vinegar?

 

 

I'd welcome help any way it's offered - recipe suggestions, links to well-regarded resources, old posts that deal with vegan/gluten-free buns... It's just a lot to sort through for a newbie.

 

Thank you!

 

Just to make it a bit more allergy friendly I would skip the sesame seeds and the soy junk.  I am sure there are lots of recipes on the web you could find and experiment with.  Perhaps there is a gluten-free bakery in your area that you could get the rolls from?  That would make them safer assuming you handled the sandwich ingredients and assembly of the sandwich well.  

[kareng]

Just curious as I see this often - why do you (a chef/restaurant) think that vegans need to be gluten free? Or Celiacs need to be vegan? At first, I thought you were trying to make something without a lot of the main allergens - but you have almonds, soy, corn. So I am curious about how restaurants see us - not meant to be rude - just curious about something I have noticed.

[BridgetteIMcleod]

Since you are new to this I would highly recommend America's Test Kitchen "How it can be Gluten Free" . This is a great book with the research already done for you.  Invest the 20 dollars and then take what they have done and incorporate into what you are doing. They have some really great results, and everything I have made from the book has been excellent. 

[Gilgulis]

Thank you for the replies!

 

 

 

Just to make it a bit more allergy friendly I would skip the sesame seeds and the soy junk.

Just curious as I see this often - why do you (a chef/restaurant) think that vegans need to be gluten free? Or Celiacs need to be vegan? At first, I thought you were trying to make something without a lot of the main allergens - but you have almonds, soy, corn.

 

The recipe so far (will list below) will not include almond/nut products, but will include soy, in part because the patty for the sandwich will be fried in soybean oil - in a dedicated vegan, gluten-free fryer. I had included sesame seeds because there are also sesame seeds in the patty, but the chef preferred the look without them.

 

I don't think that we generally assume that many vegans are celiac or vice versa. Rather, we had a popular vegan sandwich and had several requests for it to be gluten-free, so we are responding to those requests. It is absolutely the case that some people cannot tolerate soy or corn products; also, one member of our staff with gluten intolerance cannot eat the buns because they have rice flour. I don't think we will be able to satisfy all needs, so we're picking and choosing and went with vegan, gluten-free with the caveat of being produced in a kitchen with flour, and nut-free.

 

 

 

 

Since you are new to this I would highly recommend America's Test Kitchen "How it can be Gluten Free" . This is a great book with the research already done for you.  Invest the 20 dollars and then take what they have done and incorporate into what you are doing. They have some really great results, and everything I have made from the book has been excellent. 

 

Thank you for the suggestion! I will at least pick it up from the library.

 

 

 

Here is the current recipe after two test batches, having started with the Ideas in Food What IiF Flour recipe #1 as a baseline. Yield is 12 four-inch diameter buns:

 

Dry mix:

 

350g corn starch

225g white rice flour

225g tapioca starch

100g brown rice flour

100g chickpea flour

10g soy lecithin

21g salt

12g instant yeast

 

Wet:

38g ground chia seeds

200g boiling water

 

675g soy milk (room temp)

50g molasses (partly for color)

25g apple cider vinegar

100g extra virgin olive oil

 

I did the chia slurry/gel first then mixed the rest together, let it rise by about half, and used a large scoop to portion the batter into sprayed 4" creme brûlée ramekins (wide, shallow, ceramic dishes). I dipped my fingers in water to flatten and smooth the batter, then sprinkled some salt on top, proofed them until they rose a bit over the rim of the ramekins, and baked them for 20 minutes at 375^ in a non-convection oven. I also did a batch on sprayed parchment paper without the dishes to mold them, and while we are going to stick with the dishes for the sake of consistent size, those worked absolutely fine with the same wet-hand shaping.

 

I would generally say that the flavor and texture are pleasant. I would like more rise in the center for more of a domed look, and I'm not sure how to do that - I'll try to get a picture up later today.

[gilligan]

There's a gluten free bakery not too far from me.  I was disappointed on my first visit as I was expecting to be able to purchase gluten-free breads, rolls, etc., and that is not the case.  They make all sandwiches/burgers with Udi's gluten-free bread and buns.  This is not the same Udi's that can be purchased at the store.  When I turned up my nose, they offered me a piece of bread and a bun.  They are soft, domed (buns), and delicious - not unlike wheat products.  I was surprised.  I tried to buy them online, but not possible - restaurants only can order.  But, I can buy the buns or 2 slices of bread for $1.50.  When I'm in the area, I buy a few because they are so good.  I've been to a bbq place that uses the same buns - I recognized them.  They come individually wrapped and frozen.

[BlessedMommy]

Vegan gluten free buns are not really common to find. I can see why buying commercial wouldn't be an option. Even if you wanted to provide a gluten free wrap, the teff wraps have no eggs in them, but still have honey and thus are not vegan. With baking, though, since flour remains airborne for many hours, it is very difficult to produce gluten free bread in a mixed environment.

 

I do appreciate the effort to provide vegetarian gluten free options and I'm sure that the celiac vegans appreciate it even more. (I'm ovo-veg and not vegan, but I've heard that vegan and celiac is a very difficult combination) Living as a strict gluten free vegetarian, it does feel like a "niche" sort of group, where it's so specific, that there are fewer options than I would like.

 

What about providing a veggie wrap with collard greens as the outer shell or something similar?

[BlessedMommy]

I found this link:

 

Open Original Shared Link

[w8in4dave]

I have got to be gluten-free, Soy free, and Corn free, I cannot eat your product. I do find it nice that you are trying tho. Maby some that are Gluten intolerant can eat what your making. It is nice that you are doing this. Just some of our diets are a lil more extreme than others. My Oldest daughter is vegetarian, no other issues and she would love that!! 

[Jennn19]

I'm not vegan but I am extremely gluten-sensitive and allergic to nuts, dairy and egg, so it's incredibly difficult to find good "vegan" gluten-free bread items.  I appreciate that someone is trying!

 

I've made home made vegan gluten-free buns successfully with a flour blend (Jules) and a basic gluten free dinner roll recipe by simply replacing the butter with olive oil and egg with chia seed and adding a little extra water.  The "dough" is not shapable, and ends up more like a super thick batter that I spread into a mini-pie tin (approx 3-4 inches) tray and then smooth the tops with my fingers and some more olive oil.  The bread raises really well and I end up with a 3 inch bun (they pull away from the sides as they bake) that resembles a hamburger bun.  They turn out crusty on the outside and chewy on the inside and my non-gluten free friends and family think they're equally as good as glutinous buns.

 

I don't know a lot about different individual flours or assembling proper blends, but my guess is that it's the tapioca starch that really gives the bread the chewy texture in my recipe at least.  I've noticed similar texture with my bun recipe using Chebe and other gluten free flours that are primarily tapioca starch blends.

 

This is the basic recipe - this recipe is not gluten free, but it works well with the tapioca starch based gluten free blended flours that I've tried, olive oil/chia seed to make it vegan, and extra water for the more batter-like dough:  Open Original Shared Link

[luvs2eat]

There's a gluten free bakery not too far from me.  I was disappointed on my first visit as I was expecting to be able to purchase gluten-free breads, rolls, etc., and that is not the case.  They make all sandwiches/burgers with Udi's gluten-free bread and buns.  This is not the same Udi's that can be purchased at the store.  When I turned up my nose, they offered me a piece of bread and a bun.  They are soft, domed (buns), and delicious - not unlike wheat products.  I was surprised.  I tried to buy them online, but not possible - restaurants only can order.  But, I can buy the buns or 2 slices of bread for $1.50.  When I'm in the area, I buy a few because they are so good.  I've been to a bbq place that uses the same buns - I recognized them.  They come individually wrapped and frozen.

Ahhh!! That explains the incredibly delicious burger I had at Red Robin! Our server said it was a Udi's bun but it was so NOT the Udi's bun I can buy at the health food store! I made him SWEAR that it was gluten free cause it was just too pretty!!

[StephanieL]

Are the special order only Udi's egg free?  I was under the impression that all Udi's has eggs (which DS's allergic to).

[kareng]

Are the special order only Udi's egg free?  I was under the impression that all Udi's has eggs (which DS's allergic to).

I think they have egg so, not really on topic. But, we often go off on tangents around here! Lol.

Personally, I wouldn't eat anything the Op says is gluten-free at his restauruant. They bake many gluten things there and the flour must be everywhere. Probably lovely for some but probably not safe for Celiacs.

[kareng]

Ahhh!! That explains the incredibly delicious burger I had at Red Robin! Our server said it was a Udi's bun but it was so NOT the Udi's bun I can buy at the health food store! I made him SWEAR that it was gluten free cause it was just too pretty!!

Not all Red Robins use UDis. The ones here use a local bakery and they are not vegan.

[Gilgulis]

Yeah, we did a couple of test batches but stopped for a couple of reasons, probably common for interlopers like me.

 

As mentioned, we just can't do a legit gluten-free product in that kitchen. Also, while we liked the buns while they were fresh, they did not keep well, and the somewhat crumbly texture didn't go so well with the patty for that sandwich. It did not seem worthwhile to go through extra processes (mixing & baking before each shift and discarding leftovers) and buying more expensive ingredients for a not-quite gluten-free product. A lettuce wrap is a reasonable alternative.

 

Thanks for the help!