What Can't Celiacs D?

[mart]

I'm just curious as to what kinds of experiences are off limits to Celiacs. I'm thinking that the military probably doesn't accept them because they may not necessarily be able to accommodate such a diet while out in combat. Not that I'd want my son to go to combat anyway. Just wondering what kinds of jobs or experiences he'll be denied with this condition...

[jerseyangel]

Celiacs cannot become Catholic Priests.

[cgilsing]

I would say pastry chef is probably out!

[Lisa]

Celiac is considered a disability in regards to the armed forces.

[Jnkmnky]

They can't be in the military or receive Holy Orders in the Catholic Church.

[happygirl]

I work for a defense contractor, and I could not be sent overseas because they could not feed me. Darn. (at least that is the way now.....if a pill comes out and I wanted to go, that would be a different story)

[penguin]

They can't be in the military or receive Holy Orders in the Catholic Church.

Basically, go play with the Buddhists and have a nice bowl of rice

[mmaccartney]

I work for a defense contractor, and I could not be sent overseas because they could not feed me. Darn. (at least that is the way now.....if a pill comes out and I wanted to go, that would be a different story)

Why is that??? I've done work and travel in Western Europe and have not had issues finding food to eat! All I need is a grocery store and a kitchen, and a suitcase full of my staples!

Also, if Celiac is considered a disability by the military, I'm betting that it is protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), and as such the Catholic church, and the military would be forced to make accomodations for us, and it would be illegal to be "discriminated" against by denying employment based on our disability!

Lisa Baker do you have any information or reference information on the military position that Celiac is a disability?????

[VydorScope]

Why is that??? I've done work and travel in Western Europe and have not had issues finding food to eat! All I need is a grocery store and a kitchen, and a suitcase full of my staples!

Also, if Celiac is considered a disability by the military, I'm betting that it is protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), and as such the Catholic church, and the military would be forced to make accomodations for us, and it would be illegal to be "discriminated" against by denying employment based on our disability!

Lisa Baker do you have any information or reference information on the military position that Celiac is a disability?????

Actaully the miltary can turn you down for lost of reasons. For example I have dyslexia, that means I can never serve in the military.

Aslo the government can NOT force a relious organization, such as teh Catholic Church, to ordane anyone.

[happygirl]

by overseas, I mean Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, or one of the other places where we have base camps and would be living among the military or out in "unsafe" places. we have people forward-deployed and it would be near impossible to send me there. and I'm ok with that.

I asked a retired Air Force Colonel (retired 2 years ago) what would happen if someone was IN the military and was diagnosed with Celiac. He said he wasn't sure, but that they wouldn't be sent into "dangerous"/war territory...they would simply be assigned a medical waiver and kept away from those areas.

[penguin]

Aslo the government can NOT force a relious organization, such as teh Catholic Church, to ordane anyone.

It's kind of hard to receive holy orders when you can't receive communion. And I believe canon law states that the communion wafers have to be wheat. It's a huge contraversy. An 8 year old's first communion was invalidated by the church because she was given a rice wafer.

This is from an article in the National Catholic Reporter:

Open Original Shared Link

"In terms of how absolute the effect of the instruction will be, some canon lawyers point to the similar case offered by recent Vatican rulings on the ordination of men who are coeliacs, meaning wheat-intolerant, or alcoholics.

On August 22, 1994, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a seemingly absolute ban on such candidates, stating, "Given the centrality of the celebration of the Eucharist in the life of the priest, candidates for the priesthood who are affected by celiac disease or suffer from alcoholism or similar conditions may not be admitted to holy orders." <p>After much reaction and debate, however, the congregation issued a new document on July 24, 2003, which softened the ruling: "Given the centrality of the celebration of the Eucharist in the life of a priest, one must proceed with great caution before admitting to Holy Orders those candidates unable to ingest gluten or alcohol without serious harm," it stated."

Kind of makes one question their faith...

[Lisa]

Why is that??? I've done work and travel in Western Europe and have not had issues finding food to eat! All I need is a grocery store and a kitchen, and a suitcase full of my staples!

Also, if Celiac is considered a disability by the military, I'm betting that it is protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), and as such the Catholic church, and the military would be forced to make accomodations for us, and it would be illegal to be "discriminated" against by denying employment based on our disability!

Lisa Baker do you have any information or reference information on the military position that Celiac is a disability?????

SPECIFICALLY, I can't recall although it was in one of my several gluten free books. (perhaps they were refering to the the Draft, should it come up).

[Nantzie]

I'm pretty sure you couldn't enlist in the military because if you get sent for combat, you're looking at MRE's (Meals Ready to Eat) which is what you eat out in the field. At this point, they wouldn't be able to accomodate a combat soldier with a gluten-free MRE.

I'm guessing though if you are already in the military and find this out, they would just change your combat status just like they would with any other disability/condition and from that point forward you would only be assigned to stateside or non-combat bases (like Germany) so that you could be at home to eat breakfast and dinner, and prepare a safe lunch to bring with you during the day.

I think though, like every other aspect of society, over the next several years, as more people with celiac and gluten intolerance are diagnosed, it will become obvious to the military that they need to and can easily develop and provide MREs for celiac disease.

Nancy

[mmaccartney]

Got the point on the military aspect!! If all you have available are military rations, then it would be huge logistical issue to feed you! Plus, there are are exemptions in the law, as it does not apply to the Fed Govt

I agree that the Govt cannot force a church to ordain someone (I'm not catholic, so please forgive me for any mispeak or misrepresentation.), just as they cannot force a private copmany to hire someone as CEO. what does "receive Holy Orders" mean, and why can't a Celiac receive them?? If you are speaking about what I know as communion wafers, there are gluten-free options available, and that would be a *reasonable* accomodation to make!

BUT the ADA act covers ALL private employers. If you wished to be ordained, and you were denied based on a disability, they have broken the law in the USA.

Q. What employers are covered by title I of the ADA, and when is the coverage effective?

A. The title I employment provisions apply to private employers, State and local governments, employment agencies, and labor unions. Employers with 25 or more employees were covered as of July 26, 1992. Employers with 15 or more employees were covered two years later, beginning July 26, 1994.

Q. What practices and activities are covered by the employment nondiscrimination requirements?

A. The ADA prohibits discrimination in all employment practices, including job application procedures, hiring, firing, advancement, compensation, training, and other terms, conditions, and privileges of employment. It applies to recruitment, advertising, tenure, layoff, leave, fringe benefits, and all other employment-related activities.

Q. Who is protected from employment discrimination?

A. Employment discrimination is prohibited against "qualified individuals with disabilities." This includes applicants for employment and employees. An individual is considered to have a "disability" if s/he has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, has a record of such an impairment, or is regarded as having such an impairment. Persons discriminated against because they have a known association or relationship with an individual with a disability also are protected.

The first part of the definition makes clear that the ADA applies to persons who have impairments and that these must substantially limit major life activities such as seeing, hearing, speaking, walking, breathing, performing manual tasks, learning, caring for oneself, and working. An individual with epilepsy, paralysis, HIV infection, AIDS, a substantial hearing or visual impairment, mental retardation, or a specific learning disability is covered, but an individual with a minor, nonchronic condition of short duration, such as a sprain, broken limb, or the flu, generally would not be covered.

The second part of the definition protecting individuals with a record of a disability would cover, for example, a person who has recovered from cancer or mental illness.

The third part of the definition protects individuals who are regarded as having a substantially limiting impairment, even though they may not have such an impairment. For example, this provision would protect a qualified individual with a severe facial disfigurement from being denied employment because an employer feared the "negative reactions" of customers or co-workers.

Reference: Open Original Shared Link

I don't know about you, but IMHO, an autoimmune disease such as Celiac certainly has impaired my major life activities of caring for myself. Others have reported cognitive impairments which effects learning. I have arthirtis and fibromylgia as a result of celiac, that impairs my ability to walk and perform manual tasks...

[VydorScope]

If you are speaking about what I know as communion wafers, there are gluten-free options available, and that would be a *reasonable* accomodation to make!

Inccorect. Catholic Communion is a RELIGOUS cermony for which the government CAN NOT dictate any terms.

Like the chuch's policy or not, they are protected from government intrusion.

I am not Catholic, nor do I agree with alot of what they preach, however it is their religion, and they are protected by the US Constitution.

[happygirl]

Others on the board know much more about this, but what I know is summed up in this:

In many Protestant churches, you can take lots of other things (I have used corn chips, rice wafers, and gluten-free bread). In the Catholic church, the wafer/bread is REQUIRED to have gluten in it. There are "low-gluten" options but none are gluten-free. I'm sure Jnkmnky will chime in---she is very knowledgable about this

[VydorScope]

Others on the board know much more about this, but what I know is summed up in this:

In many Protestant churches, you can take lots of other things (I have used corn chips, rice wafers, and gluten-free bread). In the Catholic church, the wafer/bread is REQUIRED to have gluten in it. There are "low-gluten" options but none are gluten-free. I'm sure Jnkmnky will chime in---she is very knowledgable about this

That is correct. And as its a RELIGOUS cermony, it is protected and no one can force them to do other wise in USA.

[mmaccartney]

That is correct. And as its a RELIGOUS cermony, it is protected and no one can force them to do other wise in USA.

Vydor,

Sorry I misspoke. I read through *some* of the text of the ADA law, and religous orgs are exempt:

SEC. 307. EXEMPTIONS FOR PRIVATE CLUBS AND RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS.

The provisions of this title shall not apply to private clubs or

establishments exempted from coverage under title II of the Civil Rights Act

of 1964 (42 U.S.C. 2000-a(e)) or to religious organizations or entities

controlled by religious organizations, including places of worship.

[cgilsing]

I actually just had a good communion experience with the Lutheran church! I had not communed since going gluten-free because I didn't think they would work with me. I belong to a denomination of Lutheranism that is very strict about their communion practices. I had to take 2 years of weekly confirmation classes to be allowed to take communion in the first place and I know they won't substitute grape juice for wine when people have a problem with wine. I talked to my pastor though (who used to be a pharmasist and is knowledgable about celiac disease) and he agreed to have a private communion service for my mom and I! He didn't check with the powers that be about the church's policy, so I'm not sure what they would have said. I'm glad to have been able to commune again though and I know there is at least one pastor out there that will do it for me!

[VydorScope]

Thanks great aboutyour Pastor!

Many ppl have found that even some Catholic Priests will bend the rules for them. Officaly its not alwod, but that does not mean you should not ask. Its up to the local powers that be more often then Rome.

[penguin]

Thanks great aboutyour Pastor!

Many ppl have found that even some Catholic Priests will bend the rules for them. Officaly its not alwod, but that does not mean you should not ask. Its up to the local powers that be more often then Rome.

It depends on your parish priest, your diocese, and who your bishop is. It also depends on who talks, and how your priest really feels about certain aspects of canon law.

Lay Catholics can still participate in communion by having wine only, but that's not an option for a priest.

[MallysMama]

I actually just had a good communion experience with the Lutheran church! I had not communed since going gluten-free because I didn't think they would work with me. I belong to a denomination of Lutheranism that is very strict about their communion practices. I had to take 2 years of weekly confirmation classes to be allowed to take communion in the first place and I know they won't substitute grape juice for wine when people have a problem with wine. I talked to my pastor though (who used to be a pharmasist and is knowledgable about celiac disease) and he agreed to have a private communion service for my mom and I! He didn't check with the powers that be about the church's policy, so I'm not sure what they would have said. I'm glad to have been able to commune again though and I know there is at least one pastor out there that will do it for me!

I'm not Catholic - and so I definitely don't understand why it's a big deal for the bread (or whatever it is) to have gluten in it?? How does having gluten make you more worthy? I don't get it! In my church (LDS - or Mormon) we take the Sacrament every sunday - which is water and bread. When I was growing up, my mom would just bring a piece of my rice-flour bread and give it to the boys who broke the bread - and we had our own tray that they would bring to our row - just for me. It didn't matter what kind of bread I ate - it was just the symbolism of what we ate to remember the promises we make with the Lord and to remember His sacrifices for us. It didn't make me any less worthy than everyone else who ate the regular bread. Can anyone help explain to me why it's so important for it to be one kind of bread that the Catholics use?

[corinne]

Mally's mama - I'm mormon too. Unfortunately, I can't eat any grains right now (even rice or corn) without getting sick, so for now I've given up on the bread part.

[penguin]

I'm not Catholic - and so I definitely don't understand why it's a big deal for the bread (or whatever it is) to have gluten in it?? How does having gluten make you more worthy? I don't get it! In my church (LDS - or Mormon) we take the Sacrament every sunday - which is water and bread. When I was growing up, my mom would just bring a piece of my rice-flour bread and give it to the boys who broke the bread - and we had our own tray that they would bring to our row - just for me. It didn't matter what kind of bread I ate - it was just the symbolism of what we ate to remember the promises we make with the Lord and to remember His sacrifices for us. It didn't make me any less worthy than everyone else who ate the regular bread. Can anyone help explain to me why it's so important for it to be one kind of bread that the Catholics use?

It's because communion isn't just a symbol in the Catholic Church. The bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ. That's the difference between Protestant churches and the Catholic Church. We could get into Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation (although Lutherans are into the transfiguration part too), but it's not necessary.

The actual bread and wine becoming body and blood is called Transfiguration, and it happens when the priest blesses it, and he is first to receive communion. Because the communion wafer becomes the body of Christ, there are very strict rules about what is used. You couldn't use wonder bread and welch's for example. It has to be wheat bread because that is what was used at the Last Supper, and since you're recreating that during each mass, it's important to follow the guidelines.

That's also, at least in large part, why priests are celibate. They are supposed to emulate Jesus, who was thought to be celibate. There's another discussion there for another day on another board, so I digress.

In other churches, it's the symbolism that counts so it's not a big deal to use other alternatives to wheat wafers.

[cgilsing]

The difference is in the word symbolism. Many churches believe that the wine and the bread used during communion are a symbol of Christ's body and blood. However some churches (Catholic and Lutheran) believe that the bread and wine used during communion ARE Christ's body and blood. Because of this they have much stricter rules about what can be used for a communion host. In order to be considered acceptable it has to be unleavened wheat bread, I guess because that is what was used in the first communion. Likewise, only wine will do too...no grape juice.

It's because communion isn't just a symbol in the Catholic Church. The bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ. That's the difference between Protestant churches and the Catholic Church. We could get into Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation, but it's not necessary.

Actually Lutherans believe the same thing as Catholics on that point!