How Come Gluten Didnt Bother Me In Italy

[Conniear50]

Interesting and very informative. I wasn't aware of this ingredient being used in America. I can certainly see how this could result in physical issues.  Maybe we should just be describing the problem differently. People who travel to Italy normally find that the food is easily digested without fluid building in the extremities indicating it was well received and digested by the body. My daughter and her husband leave soon for a long stay and have interviewed others who partook of the mentioned items with no reactions. A number of people related to me have been diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease and exercise eating  only gluten free pasta and bread. We have not experienced the symptoms noted when using these products. When we do revert back to wheat desserts etc. we suffer pain in the joints and swelling by the next day. There is a problem in the food products of the  US when so much of the public suffers from this disease. 

 

 

[kareng]

49 minutes ago, Conniear50 said:

Interesting and very informative. I wasn't aware of this ingredient being used in America. I can certainly see how this could result in physical issues.  Maybe we should just be describing the problem differently. People who travel to Italy normally find that the food is easily digested without fluid building in the extremities indicating it was well received and digested by the body. My daughter and her husband leave soon for a long stay and have interviewed others who partook of the mentioned items with no reactions. A number of people related to me have been diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease and exercise eating  only gluten free pasta and bread. We have not experienced the symptoms noted when using these products. When we do revert back to wheat desserts etc. we suffer pain in the joints and swelling by the next day. There is a problem in the food products of the  US when so much of the public suffers from this disease. 

 

 

Actually, Italy has just as many with Celiac as anywhere else about 1% of the population.  And they are advised to eat gluten-free.

https://viveresenzaglutine.com/celiac-disease-in-numbers-in-italy-and-worldwide/

“....t’s estimated that in Italy the number of people suffering from celiac disease (diagnosed or not) is about 1% of the population, ...l

“....In America, as in Australia, the percentage is always around 1%,...”

Edited August 17, 2019 by kareng

[n-m]

It is my understanding that much of the wheat crop in North America is sprayed with Roundup/glyphosate at harvest time to  aid drying of the grain. Glyphosate is banned in Europe. It is also to my understanding that Cuban wheat, which is organically grown is very low in gluten content. Glyphosate was designed to interfere with mineral absorbtion in plants, hence the use to kill weeds. Mineral absorbtion in humans and animals would be useful to consider since Glyphosate is ubiquitous in most commercial foods here in N.A. -  Glyphosate is also designed to need heavier and heavier applications and also designed to be used with seeds genetically made to withstand the high amounts. You would be correct to see the vicious circle in Monsanto's (now owned by Bayer/Germany) toxic and concerning design. Google has invested heavily and are in bed with pharmaceuticals recently having stripped much of their search info of non-toxic ways to healthful living. Please  pass it along. Thank you.

Edited November 29, 2019 by n_m
typo and clarity corrections, etc.

[Corinne D.]

Alas, glyphosate is not banned in most of the EU and is still used in agriculture. It has been approved until 2022. Hopefully, it will not get an extension.

I am a European celiac, btw. I cannot eat anything with gluten, whichever country it may come from. I live in France and no, I cannot eat French baguette. I actually cross the street instead of passing by any boulangerie for fear of airborne gluten.

[sazure]

Perhaps it's not the wheat per se but the pesticides used on crop production in American.  Round up - the herbicide (glyposate)  I grew up in the 50's. My mother and father like many of the time grew up on farms.  NO ONE had issues with bread at this time.  Raw milk from the dairy cows - fresh bread made every few days (as I did as a child, as well noodles, and dumplings). 

Something changed.  I had degrees that included including chemistry and nutrition and legal and medical research background.  I advocated hard against Monsanto (now bought out by Bayer - think Bayer Aspirin Bayer Pesticides).

I won't repost the copious research.  But when one has GMO foods, and farming (Agribusinesses mostly owned by hedge funds - used to work for a law firm on Wall St., and certain formally not known gut issues - then one has to think beyond the small picture.   There are laws that make it mandatory that farmer's use these products (overseas it caused suicides in small crop farmers)  Monstanto and it's ilk are a form of destruction.

..............................

https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/real-reason-for-toxic-wheat-its-not-gluten/

I have been a wheat farmer for 50 yrs and one wheat production practice that is very common is applying the herbicide Roundup (glyposate) just prior to harvest. Roundup is licensed for preharvest weed control. Monsanto, the manufacturer of Roundup claims that application to plants at over 30% kernel moisture result in roundup uptake by the plant into the kernels. Farmers like this practice because Roundup kills the wheat plant allowing an earlier harvest.

A wheat field often ripens unevenly, thus applying Roundup preharvest evens up the greener parts of the field with the more mature. The result is on the less mature areas Roundup is translocated into the kernels and eventually harvested as such.

This practice is not licensed. Farmers mistakenly call it “desiccation.” Consumers eating products made from wheat flour are undoubtedly consuming minute amounts of Roundup. An interesting aside, malt barley which is made into beer is not acceptable in the marketplace if it has been sprayed with preharvest Roundup. Lentils and peas are not accepted in the market place if it was sprayed with preharvest roundup….. but wheat is ok.. This farming practice greatly concerns me and it should further concern consumers of wheat products.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sazure]

Thank you for your post. I have often wondered what changed since I was a child of the 50's when we made our own bead, (noodles so on). My parents grew up on farms.  I knew of Monsanto (which the German Company Bayer bought out) (and other Rx companies that also create pesticides and highly toxic products across the board - household, consumer and farm products).  

Basically, human kind thought it best to alter natural laws with horrific consequences.

 

 

[Wheatwacked]

Quote

Potassium bromate is also illegal in the European Union, Canada, Brazil and elsewhere because it causes cancer in rats and mice. In the United States, however, it has remained legal since it was first patented for use in baking bread, in 1914.

When we grew up in the 50's in the US most baked goods were treated with iodine. Iodine became of interest because of it's protective effect in the event of nuclear attack so the military started to stockpile. We also were led to believe Mercurochrome was better than Tincture of Iodine for small cuts. Overall leading to a 50% decrease in iodine, an essential ingredient for apoptosis and thyroid and testosterone hormones, in our US standard diet.  Also, back then most pasta was made of Durham Semolina as opposed to today's modern wheat, a derivative of Asian Red Dwarf (Nobel Prize). This new wheat is designed to never stop growing as long as it is fertilized and watered (something it has in common with cancer) and is approaching 80% of the worlds wheat consumption.

[Getting Healthy]

On 9/13/2012 at 12:59 PM, Leeloff said:

I recently traveled to Italy, and although I've read they have many many gluten free options, I decided that I was going to eat whatever I wanted, even if it had gluten. When I mentioned this to my doctor, he said it actually may not bother me since the wheat outside of the US is typically less genetically modified and more "natural".

 

So after 2 weeks in Italy eating pasta daily, pizza, and all kinds of baked goods, I felt great. No headaches, upset stomach or any symptoms of gluten digestion.

 

Has anyone else had a similar experience outside of the US? If thats the case, could I buy imported flours and pasta made in Italy that arent "gluten free" and be okay eating them at home?

 

On 7/2/2014 at 3:06 PM, Gemini said:

GMO's have nothing to do with Celiac Disease or how we react to wheat. If that were true, then no one in Europe with Celiac Disease would be reacting to wheat that they eat. That is about as silly a reasoning as it gets.

 

I would find it pretty easy to travel abroad and not touch anything that was off limits to me as a full blown Celiac. I have done it on many trips.  I take this disease very seriously and would be in the hospital on my vacation if I were as careless and.....well......stupid as someone who apparently cheats all the time on their diet.  You come onto a Celiac forum and tell us you routinely eat wheat foods?  If you are actually a diagnosed Celiac, good luck with that. I mean, you certainly have free will and the right to eat whatever you want in life but to those who are new to this lifestyle and really need to be strict with your diet, don't make this mistake and think you can eat the wheat in Italy because you can't.

You will still be ruining your gut and it might ruin your vacation.

I think there are a few misconceptions between having Celiac and a gluten intolerance.  I too discovered I did not suffer from the symptoms of gluten-free intolerance in Europe that I experience in the states. This was even before I discovered I was gluten intolerant.

I was in Europe for two months and never had excessive fatigue, lack of concentration or lack of energy.  I thought it was obviously because I was on an extended vacation. However, I also realized both of my daughters, who are lactose intolerant, were able to eat any and all dairy they wanted without any of the discomfort or sickness that came along with it. Another year went by before I diagnosed myself as having an intolerance to gluten. I cut everything from my diet that had any gluten in it and within four days, I felt no fatigue at all. The first time in 10 years here in the states.

I remembered my time in Europe as having felt this same way and went on line to see if anyone else had this same experience. It was then I learned that the American processed wheat is causing a lot of illness that is entirely unnecessary. The term “gluten intolerant” should probably be changed to “processed intolerant”, because our way of processing dairy impacts us negatively as well, along with all processed foods. 

When in Italy, I went on a wine tour and the host explained why Americans get sick from drinking red wine or end up with a terrible headache and/or a hangover. He said they have go put sulfites in all imported wines into the US as mandated by the US government.  I have not been able to drink more then 8ozs of wine without becoming extremely ill.  In Italy I drank a whole bottle and felt great that night and the next morning. I was able to ship “clean” wine to my home without sulfites and enjoyed every bottle.

I have to maintain a very strict diet of all natural and organic foods in order to feel good. In Europe I always feel great regardless of what I eat or drink.  American food is unfortunately full of thousands of chemicals that make us sick. European countries care about food quality and the health of their citizens. Wish I could say the same for the good ol’ US of A.

For those who are discovering they have a real allergy to processed wheat, I commend you for looking deeper into why you experience your symptoms since there is no test for it. It is all by diet elimination.  Keep it up and continue to research food quality and where you can buy clean food. 

[Scott Adams]

People with celiac disease can’t have any type of wheat, even ancient varieties contain gliadin which will trigger an autoimmune reaction.

Some people who are gluten intolerant may have different reactions to different varieties, but most probably should also avoid all varieties of wheat.

italy still has ~1% with celiac disease, and perhaps ~10% who are gluten intolerant, so I wonder if just being on vacation and less stressed out could have something to do with it? 

This “Italian Effect” has been reported a lot over the years, which does make me wonder if there is more to this, and perhaps it should be studied. 

[Gemini]

On 4/13/2020 at 10:44 PM, Getting Healthy said:

 

I think there are a few misconceptions between having Celiac and a gluten intolerance.  I too discovered I did not suffer from the symptoms of gluten-free intolerance in Europe that I experience in the states. This was even before I discovered I was gluten intolerant.

I was in Europe for two months and never had excessive fatigue, lack of concentration or lack of energy.  I thought it was obviously because I was on an extended vacation. However, I also realized both of my daughters, who are lactose intolerant, were able to eat any and all dairy they wanted without any of the discomfort or sickness that came along with it. Another year went by before I diagnosed myself as having an intolerance to gluten. I cut everything from my diet that had any gluten in it and within four days, I felt no fatigue at all. The first time in 10 years here in the states.

I remembered my time in Europe as having felt this same way and went on line to see if anyone else had this same experience. It was then I learned that the American processed wheat is causing a lot of illness that is entirely unnecessary. The term “gluten intolerant” should probably be changed to “processed intolerant”, because our way of processing dairy impacts us negatively as well, along with all processed foods. 

When in Italy, I went on a wine tour and the host explained why Americans get sick from drinking red wine or end up with a terrible headache and/or a hangover. He said they have go put sulfites in all imported wines into the US as mandated by the US government.  I have not been able to drink more then 8ozs of wine without becoming extremely ill.  In Italy I drank a whole bottle and felt great that night and the next morning. I was able to ship “clean” wine to my home without sulfites and enjoyed every bottle.

I have to maintain a very strict diet of all natural and organic foods in order to feel good. In Europe I always feel great regardless of what I eat or drink.  American food is unfortunately full of thousands of chemicals that make us sick. European countries care about food quality and the health of their citizens. Wish I could say the same for the good ol’ US of A.

For those who are discovering they have a real allergy to processed wheat, I commend you for looking deeper into why you experience your symptoms since there is no test for it. It is all by diet elimination.  Keep it up and continue to research food quality and where you can buy clean food. 

I had the same experience with dairy, not wheat/gluten in Europe also.  I cannot tolerate American milk but can eat dairy with abandon in Europe, specifically Britain and Ireland.  I was mystified why this was and kept on digging and think I have found out why.  Has nothing to do with the quality of milk in the States or how it is processed. Read up on A2 milk.  Google it.  Some cows produce A2 enzyme and some produce A1.  A2 cows are the kind you find in Europe and not so much here in the States.  The A1 enzyme can cause stomach issues in some people as it is harder to digest.  You can now buy A2 milk here and I can use that without discomfort.  It is becoming very popular here so it is not always the lactose.

As for wheat in Europe, nope!  Can’t eat any of it without getting really sick but there is great gluten free bread and other products in Europe so no need to cheat at all.  It just might be that different varieties of wheat have less gluten content so affect NCGI people differently than people with Celiac.

As for red wine, it is not always about sulfates, either.  People can have a histamine problem, and red wine is obscenely high in histamine.  This condition is becoming more mainstream but only to a small crowd of people......usually with Celiac. It can be very difficult to figure exactly what the problem is.

I do agree about the quality of European food.  It is excellent but I notice lots of small farms and they supply many hotels and restaurants.  We do not have as much of that here but they do exist and the quality of food is much better.  Like you, I always feel great over there but it could be the vacation effect being part of that.  The gluten-free bread is fantastic and it doesn’t have holes in it, like some do here in the States.  Drives me crazy!

[Jbartels]

You may be interested to look up farming, life 9 and ion: intelligence of nature aka. Restore. 

[Scott Adams]

Welcome to the forum @Jbartels, could you please clarify what you mean here?

[Gigi2025]

Since 2015 we've spent extensive time in Italy and I've been able to eat their wheat products without incident. Initially, I was practically starving thinking foods in Sicily were not gluten-free.  An Italian friend who had lived in the US for over 20 years said she had celiac/gluten-free friends from the US who could eat Italian wheat products without problems. Hesitantly, I tried little by little without issues. 

A few years later at a market, I asked a bread vendor if they had gluten-free loaves. Turns out she had lived in LA, said groups believe it's not the gluten that's causing our bodies harm, but potassium bromate; these groups have been trying to ban it. 

Bromines and other halogens wreaks havoc to our endocrine system and, more specifically, our thyroids and immune systems. When bromines are ingested/absorbed into the body, it displaces iodine causing other health issues. Potassium bromate is a powerful oxidizing agent (dough 'conditioner') that chemically changes flour to enhance elasticity, bleaches the dough, and ages the flour much faster than open air.  

Shortly thereafter while visiting friends in California, one family said they had gone gluten-free and the difference was incredible. The reason they choose this path was due them (a biologist/chemist/agriculturist scientist) having to write a portion of a paper about a certain product for the company he worked. Another company's scientist was directed to write the other portion. All was confidential, they weren't allowed to know the other company/employee.  After the research, they learned gluten was being removed from wheat, sent elsewhere, returned in large congealed blocks resembling tofu, and then added to wheat products. Potassium bromate has been banned for use in Europe, China, and other countries, but not in the US.

Then we have the issues of shelf preservatives and stabilizers. What are we eating?  Why?

We spend long periods of time in Italy and all has been good.  We just returned from an extended time in Greece;  no issues there either.  There is a man there we learned about on a travel show about Greece who walks the hills, picking herbs, pods, etc.  He is a very learned scholar, taught at the university level in Melbourne. It took a few days to locate him, but were finally successful. He too, is concerned about the additives and preservatives in American food (many of his customers are Americans, haven't been in the best of health, and have become healthier after visiting him). He suggested taking a food product from the US and the same product in Europe, and compare the different ingredients. Then ask why these things are being allowed in the US by the 'watch dog' of our foods and drugs. It would be amuzing if it weren't tragic.

I'm presently looking for flour from Europe that I can make my own bread and pasta as the gluten-free bread is now $7.99 a (small) loaf.  BTW, studies are showing that many gluten-free individuals are becoming diabetic. My guess is because the gluten-free products are high in carbs.

This is only my experience and opinion garnished by my personal research.  I hope it helps.

 

[cristiana]

@Gigi2025  Thank you for your interesting post. 

Some of what you say chimes with something my gastroenterologist tells me - that he has clients who travel to France and find the same as you  - they will eat normal wheat baguette there without issue, for example.  His theory was he thought it might be to do with the locally sourced wheat being different to our own in the UK?

But I have to say my own experience has been quite different. I have been to France twice since my diagnosis, and have been quite ill due to what was then (pre-2019)  poor labelling and cross-contamination issues.  My TTG test following my last visit was elevated - 'proof of the pudding', as we say in the UK!  It was not just a case of eating something like, say, shellfish, that disagreed with me - gluten was clearly an issue.

I've also been to Italy to visit family a couple of times since my diagnosis.  I did not want to take any chances so kept to my gluten free diet, but whilst there what I did notice is that coeliacs are very well catered for in Italy, and many brands with the same ingredients in the UK are clearly marked on the front of their packaging that they are 'senza glutine'.  In the UK, you would have to find that information in the small print - or it puts people off buying it, so I am told!  So it seems to me the Italians are very coeliac aware - in fact, all children are, I believe, screened for coeliac disease at the age of 6.  That must mean, I guess, that many Italian coeliacs are actively avoiding gluten because, presumably, if they don't, they will fall ill?

 

 

 

 

[Gigi2025]

Hi Christiana, Many thanks for your response.  Interestingly, I too cannot eat wheat in France without feeling effects (much less than in the US, but won't indulge nonetheless).  I also understand children are screened for celiac in Italy prior to starting their education. Wise idea as it seems my grandson has the beginning symptoms (several celiacs in his dad's family), but parents continue to think he's just being difficult.  Argh.  There's a test I took that diagnosed gluten sensitivity in 2014 via Entero Labs, and am planning on having done again.  Truth be told, I'm hoping it's the bromine/additives/preservatives as I miss breads and pastas terribly when home here in the states!  Be well and here's to our guts healing ❤️

[Scott Adams]

On 10/11/2025 at 12:11 PM, Gigi2025 said:

Since 2015 we've spent extensive time in Italy and I've been able to eat their wheat products without incident. Initially, I was practically starving thinking foods in Sicily were not gluten-free.  An Italian friend who had lived in the US for over 20 years said she had celiac/gluten-free friends from the US who could eat Italian wheat products without problems. Hesitantly, I tried little by little without issues. 

A few years later at a market, I asked a bread vendor if they had gluten-free loaves. Turns out she had lived in LA, said groups believe it's not the gluten that's causing our bodies harm, but potassium bromate; these groups have been trying to ban it. 

Bromines and other halogens wreaks havoc to our endocrine system and, more specifically, our thyroids and immune systems. When bromines are ingested/absorbed into the body, it displaces iodine causing other health issues. Potassium bromate is a powerful oxidizing agent (dough 'conditioner') that chemically changes flour to enhance elasticity, bleaches the dough, and ages the flour much faster than open air.  

Shortly thereafter while visiting friends in California, one family said they had gone gluten-free and the difference was incredible. The reason they choose this path was due them (a biologist/chemist/agriculturist scientist) having to write a portion of a paper about a certain product for the company he worked. Another company's scientist was directed to write the other portion. All was confidential, they weren't allowed to know the other company/employee.  After the research, they learned gluten was being removed from wheat, sent elsewhere, returned in large congealed blocks resembling tofu, and then added to wheat products. Potassium bromate has been banned for use in Europe, China, and other countries, but not in the US.

Then we have the issues of shelf preservatives and stabilizers. What are we eating?  Why?

We spend long periods of time in Italy and all has been good.  We just returned from an extended time in Greece;  no issues there either.  There is a man there we learned about on a travel show about Greece who walks the hills, picking herbs, pods, etc.  He is a very learned scholar, taught at the university level in Melbourne. It took a few days to locate him, but were finally successful. He too, is concerned about the additives and preservatives in American food (many of his customers are Americans, haven't been in the best of health, and have become healthier after visiting him). He suggested taking a food product from the US and the same product in Europe, and compare the different ingredients. Then ask why these things are being allowed in the US by the 'watch dog' of our foods and drugs. It would be amuzing if it weren't tragic.

I'm presently looking for flour from Europe that I can make my own bread and pasta as the gluten-free bread is now $7.99 a (small) loaf.  BTW, studies are showing that many gluten-free individuals are becoming diabetic. My guess is because the gluten-free products are high in carbs.

This is only my experience and opinion garnished by my personal research.  I hope it helps.

 

There is a distinction between gluten itself and the other chemicals and processing methods involved in modern food production. Your experience in Italy and Greece, contrasted with your reactions in the U.S., provides powerful anecdotal evidence that the problem, for some people, may not be the wheat, but the additives like potassium bromate and the industrial processing it undergoes here. The point about bromines displacing iodine and disrupting thyroid function is a significant one, explaining a potential biological mechanism for why such additives could cause systemic health issues that mimic gluten sensitivity. It's both alarming and insightful to consider that the very "watchdog" agencies meant to protect us are allowing practices banned in many other developed countries. Seeking out European flour and your caution about the high-carb, potentially diabeticgenic nature of many gluten-free products are excellent practical takeaways from your research, but I just want to mention--if you have celiac disease you need to avoid all wheat, including all wheat and gluten in Europe.

[Gigi2025]

Thanks much Scott.  Well said, and heeded.   I don't have Celiac, which is fortunate.

[Theresa2407]

Maybe you have a low  intolerance to Wheat.   Rye, Barley and Malt are the gluten in Celiac disease.  It has always been stated Wheat and Gluten, not just a Wheat intolerance.  Barley will keep me in bed for (2) weeks.  Gut, Migrains, Brain fog, Diahrea.  It is miserable.  And when I was a toddler the doctor would give me a malt medicine because I always had Anemia and did not grow.  Boy was he off.  But at that time the US didn't know anyone about Celiac.  This was the 1940s and 50s.  I had my first episode at 9 months and did not get a diagnosis until I was 50.  My immune system was so shot before being diagnoised, so now I live with the consequences of it.

I was so upset when Manufacturers didn't want to label their products so they added barley to the product.  It was mostly the cereal industry.  3 of my favorite cereals were excluded because of this.

Malt gives me a bad Gut reaction.

[Gigi2025]

Hi Theresa,  A few of my friends have your same story. You may be right about barley, etc.  18 years ago at a football game while clapping, suddenly my 4th finger was in agony.  It looked like a vein had burst. It was blue for a couple hours, then disappeared.  Finally realized it happened every time when drinking beer.  It's occurred several times over the years when opening a jar, lifting something that was a bit heavy, holding on to tight to something.  Immediate icing stops the pain and discoloration.  Now avoiding wheat in the US, it rarely happens.  Thanks for the reminder.  Will have Entero Labs run another test. Unfortunately they've relocated to Switzerland/Greece.

[Scott Adams]

Approximately 10x more people have non-celiac gluten sensitivity than have celiac disease, but there isn’t yet a test for NCGS. If your symptoms go away on a gluten-free diet it would likely signal NCGS.

 

[knitty kitty]

If a Celiac person is successful in following a gluten-free diet, they can go into remission.  

They may not have a reaction to gluten without a precipitating event like an injury or infection or even emotional or mental stress.  

Following a strict gluten-free diet at home, then indulging in gluten containing products abroad without a reaction can be explained by this remission.  

[Ceekay]

I can eat wheat products safely and without discomfort when traveling to Mexico, Outer Mongolia, and Japan. I feel that US wheat, barley, and rye are grown from genetically-modified seeds that have had something unhealthy done to them, that causes a bad reaction in many of us. 

[Scott Adams]

Welcome to the forum @Ceekay!

If you have celiac disease then you can't eat wheat in other countries because it would still contain gliadin, the harmful part of the grain. Have you been diagnosed with celiac disease?

[trents]

This topic has come up before on this forum and has been researched. No GMO wheat, barley and rye are commercially available in the USA. Any modifications are from hybridization, not laboratory genetic modification. Better toleration of wheat, barley and rye products in other countries is thought to be due to use of heirloom varieties of these cereal grains as opposed to the hybrids used in the USA which contain much larger amounts of gluten.

Edited October 22 by trents

[Gigi2025]

No, I've not been diagnosed as celiac.  Despite Entero Labs being relocated to Switzerland/Greece, I'll be doing another test. After eating wheat products in Greece for 4 weeks, there wasn't any reaction.  However, avoiding it here in the states.  

Thanks everyone for your responses.